Savage 220 slug gun

[Taylor]

I don't think it likes me.

Bought it new, replaced the plastic stock with one from Boyd's. Glass and pillar bedded. Redfield Revolution 3x9 scope.

Ammo tried..slugs,
Winchester
Hornady
Federal
Remington
...and various loads of my own.

I cannot get a group, not even at 50 yards. Everything acted like a bad scope. So I returned it to Leupold. On return, they said it was good and had given it a good going over. No change at all in getting a group to adjust off of. When I got it back, I centered the cross hairs and laser bore sighted at 75 yards.(that's how far it is to the tree).

The rounds won't stay together, left-right-up-down. All over the place. I still think it may be the scope. But..really am at a lose. Guy's I'm all ears, Any ideas?

[tomme boy]

Make sure your scope base is mounted solid. Savage had a problem a couple years ago where the bolts were too long on the front base holes and were screwed down onto the barrel threads. They would not let the base get screwed all the way down. Was not Savage fault it was the base makers fault for supplying bolts that were too long. You had to grind or file the threads down a couple threads and then it was fine.

After that and it is not the reason then you need to find someone else to shoot the gun. These guns are not for everyone. Most can not shoot them right as the recoil is so harsh.

[Taylor]

I don't have an issue with the recoil. The base mount screws are right. I did have someone else shoot it. I have taken it apart a dozen times. Checked and re-checked all the screws. Currently I have switched it back to the original stock. Just trying to eliminate all the possible issues I can. It just don't like me. Frankly, I don't know what else to do.

[Hogtamer]

Taylor,
I bought one several years ago and it was a dream from day one. I also bought a savage a22 magnum about the same time and it was a nightmare. Here are some suggestions you may find helpful.
1) Take the bolt out and study the barrel in good light. Look for leading from some home grown slugs and plastic residue. Whether you see any or not give the bore a good scrubbing with solvent until it is perfectly clean.
2) While the bolt is out slug your barrel from the muzzle end by using a piece of soft lead like an oversize fishing sinker and a wood dowel. If you can't measure accurately any machinist with a micrometer can.
3) Order some of the 3/4 oz slugs that Uncle Dino (fury custom bullets) makes, they're inexpensive and very accurate. Proven killers by yours truly. The plastic base is several thousandths larger than the lead slug and that is what takes the rifling. https://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/209/shotgun-slugs
4) As others have said Remove the scope and start over. Remove the rail and make sure it is fastened securely with a drop of blue locktite. Do you have a scope from another weapon you can try? When reinstalling scope double check that bases are fitting properly on the rail and very tight. Are your rings in good shape? Does the scope sit flush in them? Are the locking screws all good with no stripped threads? Are they tight enough? Don't mean to offend, just that sometimes it pays to double and triple check.
5) I bought a cheapola laser bore sight and it works well enough. Run your crosshairs to the limit both directions and find the middle before adjusting to laser dot. Are you using an immovable rest to adjust the scope?

If you have already done all these things and the bore seems normal I would tend to agree it is the scope. Good luck and let us know what you find.

[Hogtamer]

OOPs, I was writing after you posted last! Try another scope before you sell it!

[dsh1106]

Are you using individual front and rear scope mounts or a single scope base?

[NyFirefighter357]

Did you shoot this gun before you replaced the stock? All the 220's I know shoot great with the Hornady SST slugs. Are you shooting from a bench, sand bags, off hand? Those guns don't have great recoil but if something like the rings or mounts aren't holding tight enough it would cause issues.

[megasupermagnum]

I would take the much easier route. Call Savage, put the original stock on it, and ship it to them. They are a good company that will either fix or replace it.

[garandsrus]

My savage 20 shoots very well. I use Rem Accutip slugs. I would try another scope as was suggested.

With all the loads you have tried, you may have leaded the barrel, so give that a good cleaning. It can make a huge difference in accuracy. Some slugs don’t use a sabot and are cast really soft so it is easy to get leading. The Accutip has a sabot so it can’t lead.

[Taylor]

Hogtamer, I have already done everything you have suggested. And I mean all of it. I have 2 separate bases and rings. Yes they are clean fitting and tight. I am shooting from a bench with a rest. I shoot 3 rounds and let it cool.

I don't get offended Hog, especially when I need help and ideas to at least make some progress. So anything you offer, I will try or have already..thanks.

I never fired the gun with the oem stock. I went straight to a Boyd's. I have switched back, but won't get to the range 'til Tuesday. Deer season opens this Saturday on Fort Campbell. I do have my muzzleloader and 12 ga ready to go.

The only other thing I haven't done is change scopes.

Store bought slugs ain't cheap.

[Taylor]

248206 My very first 3 rounds down range. Man...was I happy. Then everything went to pooh.

[Hogtamer]

Gotta be the scope brother. If you don't have another laying around go kill that big buck Saturday then try the one off your 12 ga. next week and let it rest until then. If you buy a new one consider the Nikon slug scope dedicated for shotguns. I had 3 different scopes on 12 ga shotguns that wouldn't perform before I settled on that one. Good luck with the 220 and Saturday too!

[CLAYPOOL]

Sock in stock full of loose shot makes a MUCH nicer gun out of them. Remington slugs are recommended for them by people on line..

[megasupermagnum]

Here is a quick idea if you are willing to try. Bring a real sturdy rest like a lead sled or similar. Take the bolt out and sight down the bore. Carefully put the bolt in and a slug and fire. Repeat 3 times. If it is any semblance of a group, repeat. If it's good a second time, you know your scope is trash.

[Taylor]

I use a lead sled thingy, just to help with the elimination of problems. Thing is too, I had sent the scope back to Leupold, they said nothing wrong and returned it to me. I like that idea mega, put that on the list of stuff to try.

Granted guy's, I may not be the best shot in the world. But I know I ain't the worst.

[NyFirefighter357]

Gotta be the scope brother. If you don't have another laying around go kill that big buck Saturday then try the one off your 12 ga. next week and let it rest until then. If you buy a new one consider the Nikon slug scope dedicated for shotguns. I had 3 different scopes on 12 ga shotguns that wouldn't perform before I settled on that one. Good luck with the 220 and Saturday too!

I have several Nikon Pro Staffs on my 12ga's they are great

[6pt-sika]

Maybe you got a lemon I don’t know . I can however tell you my 220 has an older Leupold Vari XII 3-9 on top and with the Remington 2 3/4” AccuTip slugs it’ll shoot three in a ragged hole at 100 yards if I’m doing my part . I will say the one I have is one of the first as I got this gun before they had them in their catalog .

[NyFirefighter357]

Remington Accutip are the slugs of choice for Savage 212's & 220's.

[hockeynick39]

Send it back to Savage.

[bikerbeans]

I would put it in the safe until after deer season.

BB

[Taylor]

Biker , that was a thought. The only other scope I have available is a Weaver K4, (without spending money). I did give thought to the Nikon Prostaff. Talked to Leupold again this morning. Want me to send it back...again. He said they would mount and shoot it this time. If it were a lemon (the gun), which I did give thought to also. Why did it shoot so good in the beginning?

[Tripplebeards]

I have a stainless camo version. I installed a DMZ scope mount and a Nikon monarch 2.5x10 optic. I also turned my trigger down to the lightest pull weight. I bought every plastic tipped loaded ammo to try. The best group I reviewed was 1.3/4”...the widest was 4.5”. I removed the action from the stock. The barrel was touching one side of the stock. I free floated it and then drilled dozens if little holes in the tang area and then acraglassed it. The only place I needed it was in front and back if the tang area. About an 1” to 1.5” in front of it. It looked like a crappy job but worked very well. The first three shot group at 100 yards was in one little ragged oblong hole with 3” Remington accutips. It will shoot this tight consistently with the 3” accutips when I do my part. All the rest of my ammo that shot 2.5” to 4.5” tightened up to 3/4” to 1.75” being the largest group out of all seven different loads I tried.

When I bought my first Boyd’s stock for my 1903 A3 I shot huge groups with it as well. Around 4.5”. I then acraglassed it. It tightened it but not great. I ended up re glassing it two more times with the last time using business cards under the barrel to make sure there was free floating space between the barrel and the barrel channel. The best after this was .5” groups. At the same time I did this (20 plus years ago) i literally glued my buddies enfield in place with acraglass in a sporter stock. I glasses the front and rear part of the tang, the rear mounting screw area, and three pressure points throughout the barrel channel. I was very GREEN at the time with the bedding process as this was my third rifle I did back then. Anyways, the enfield wouldn’t come out if the stock needless to say( It’s the gun I just restored...it finally came apart last fall,lol). Long story short, the glued in action and pressure points rifle shot tighter than my 1903 A3 that was glass bedded and released so I could remove my action. I would guess your action is not perfectly mated to your stock. If you have your old stock, if it were me, I’d float it and bed it, and see how your gun shoots again with the same loads. I bet if you put it back in the original unaltered stock and shoot it you’d be surprised. At least it’s one more variable to rule out. If it still shoots large groups with the original stock back in place you can start testing it with different optics,mounts, etc. I know my POA jumped up a few inches on mine after I sighted it in. I haven’t messed with it after I bought years ago and used in IA deer hunting. It’s been a safe queen ever since. I also have a case of 3” accutips I have sealed and stored in an ammo locker being they were impossible to find at the time and I feared they were going to discontinue them.

[Optimist]

Okay. You put it back into the OEM stock and got one good group out of it before things opened up again. That is suggesting a bedding problem to me, rather than a scope issue.

[Taylor]

No, I have not shot it yet with the oem stock. I got good groups with the aftermarket stock. Then everything went to crap.

[Tripplebeards]

No, I have not shot it yet with the oem stock. I got good groups with the aftermarket stock. Then everything went to crap.

Taylor humor yourself and put it back in the OEM, unaltered stock, and shoot a few groups out of it and see if any thing changes before doing anything else. Most guys I know who own these 220’s shoot one ragged hole at 100 yards with the correct factory load without doing a single thing to the stock rifle. Mine didn’t so I floated the barrel and bedded it fixing the problem.

[Taylor]

That is my plan.

[pcarpenter]

I've got a 220f in the factory stock that I've had for several years. Usual great accuracy with Sabot slugs. I had a 210F going back to the mid 90's when they were still available and also had good luck with that. In addition to lots of other rifles, I have a 10-MLII that had a way-out-of-round front receiver ring. I was using a two piece base and finally put a straightedge on it and figured out the issue. They were finishing the receivers with a belt sander and it's easy to get things out of round. I eventually fixed by epoxy bedding the front base after making a fixture to hold the two parallel on the receiver. Since that time, I've had to epoxy bed one piece rails on other rifles for the same reason. You could set them on the receiver with no screws and rock them just a bit. In short, if the bases are tight, but not square, you are going to torque a scope tube and the erector tube inside is not going to track properly and can jump around. If it's bad enough, you can permanently damage a scope. I am also a fan of the Burris Signature rings which do much to solve minor alignment issues.

Speaking of damaging a scope...I have little good to say for rests that prevent all movement of rifles that recoil pretty hard....and a slug gun makes lots of recoil energy. If firing a gun is a physics experiment demonstrating Newton's third law of motion, the Lead Sled and others are a demonstration of how to use it to tear up a scope. The gun and scope start to recoil together, with the gun having far more mass. It would otherwise dissipate the bulk of the energy but it's abruptly stopped from moving. The scope on the other hand tries to keep moving and has to bear far more than its normal share of shock. Think of it as the crash dummy in a car that hits a wall at 60 miles an hour.

As others have mentioned, having the scope out of its optical center won't help either, so it's worth solving major amounts of misalignment using something other than the adjustment of the reticle.

I wish you luck. Frustrating as it can be, I am convinced this hobby is not for folks who aren't willing to do some problem solving and I believe you will find the answer. Check your base for tight and square with the scope off. Check to see if it fits squarely without being bolted down. Try another scope if needed too....a "known quantity" that has worked fine elsewhere.

Paul

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was going to say take the scope off and shoot it with the iron sights,, but then I realized it doesn't have iron sights.

The gun has a 3" chamber, so maybe you should only shoot 3" shells instead of 2 3/4" shells in it? Sometimes that makes a difference, but it is seldom a night and day difference.

Does your gun have separate bases or a full length rail to mount the scope on? I'd go with the Full Length Rail.

If this gun still won't shoot then send it back to Savage, I've already read all possible solutions I'd have tried on this thread and if there's still no results then the gun has to go back.

No Magic Boolit here,,, Sometimes you just get a Lemon.

Randy

[Taylor]

2 bases. I'm going to exhaust all recommendations before contacting Savage. Most I have already tried, some I still need to play with.

[Tripplebeards]

If you look at some of my past posts I had my POA keep shifting on my Ruger American 450 BM. I found the factory weaver style rail was loose causing vibration. Ruger exchanged it with the updated Picatinny rail. It came back from the factory with it mounted loose! I removed it, acraglassed bedded it, and loctited the mounting screws. If you’re removing your bases and rings again make sure you apply loctite to the bases or acraglass them in place like I did...one more thing to rule out. Oh, I also sprayed 3M 77 adhesive inside my scope rings and let them dry before placing my scope in them to prevent slippage. I wrecked one optic with it from slippage and mounted the second one with rosin and used my wheeler torque wrench...it still slipped! I haven’t tried shooting it with the 3M 77 adhesive but I already know it will not move now after the optic barely wanted to move in the rings when the mounting screws weren’t even installed yet. After I did the 3M adhesive application on my 450 BM I checked my colt andaconda. The red dot slid a good 1/4” so I applied 3M adhesive inside the rings on that one as well. I went through about a half dozen red dots in the mid 90’s on that pistol for the same reason. No matter how even the torque was the optic always came loose and destroyed. I believe 3M 77 adhesive will be the holly grail of saving optics in my house. I have to do both my ultra mags next.

[Taylor]

Good idea with the glue. They seem pretty solid as is. I'm replacing the 2 base set up with a single base. My schedule now is hunt Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Range on Tuesday, mow grass on Wednesday. Start the hunt all over on Thursday. I sure hope I can get this thing worked out.

[garandsrus]

Did u clean the barrel?

[Taylor]

Yes, and I will again before I go to the range. Just noticed something. I bought a 1 piece base this morning and put it on. While bore sighting, when I would make an adjustment, I would tap the knob with my finger. The reticle's would move. If this is happening to the scope with just a tap of the finger, what is recoil doing? I'm sending it back.

[tomme boy]

I use liquid electrical tape on my rings. Plus I use 3 screw rings. They don't need the tape but I do it out of habit from using standard rings.

[Hogtamer]

I would say the single base is asking for trouble. The scope needs all the support it can get banging around in the woods.

[Optimist]

No, I have not shot it yet with the oem stock. I got good groups with the aftermarket stock. Then everything went to crap.

Sorry I misread your post earlier. My reading is apparently outstripping my understander....

[Taylor]

I would say the single base is asking for trouble. The scope needs all the support it can get banging around in the woods.

But I can move it where I want that way.

[Tripplebeards]

Dmz makes a bullet proof 1 piece mount that's pretty light. I have one on a remington 7600 and my savage 220.

[megasupermagnum]

So it did shoot good at one time, then just went to heck? I have a hard time believing anything with your stock could cause groups to go from great to off paper at 50 yards. Unless your barrel is really jacked up, you have a bad scope or mount.

[Taylor]

Shot great, man I was one happy camper. Then bam, everything went crazy. Would not group for love nor money. I changed the base today and the scope is on it's way to Oregon. I have lost all faith in it. I may buy the Nikon Prostaff or the Leupold VX Freedom. When I tapped it with my finger and the cross hairs moved..well something is wrong.

[Tripplebeards]

Glad you figured it out. I would tell to buy the Nikon. My protaffs are brighter and clearer than my Leupold vx4's. I was a Leopold fan per looks and brand recognition for years till I looked through a nikon. Its been all Nikons ever since.

[bikerbeans]

To heck with your 220, what did you shoot this morning?

BB

[Taylor]

I took my Mossberg out. Didn't shoot anything. Gonna head back for an evening hunt. If I'm lucky, and since it's early, all I want is meat for the freezer.

[W.R.Buchanan]

3 Beards: if you ever run out of 3M77 glue try "Barge Cement!" It makes 3M77 look like flour paste. :mrgreen:

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

3 Beards: if you ever run out of 3M77 glue try "Barge Cement!" It makes 3M77 look like flour paste. :mrgreen:

Randy

I have a huge can almost full of the 3M 77 left so it will be a while. I originally bought the 3M to re stick a few jet Ski stickers back on a couple of skis that were starting to peel off so I had it laying around and I read on a few forums that shooters were spraying 3M 77 on the inside of the rings and letting it dry before they mounted their optics so I gave it a try... and boy I can tell you it sure works! Glad I found a use for my $12 unused adhesive. I plan on doing all my heavy shooters eventually. It was something I already had previously purchased and just laying around so I experimented and gave it a try...and I’m glad I did. I was afraid I could slide my optic back and forth and side to side to adjust it with the scope ring screws loose but I could with little force. IMO There’s no way my optics will ever slide loose after I 3M 77’d them.

It takes a little TLC with the 3M since it’s a spray. I mask off the outside of the rings like I’m painting a car, give an extremely light spray to the inside and let it dry 10 minutes or so before unmasking and installing my optic. I haven’t done this with my 220 yet as I haven’t shot it since I went deer hunting in Iowa years ago but it will be done before I take it out and shoot it again. I’m pretty positive my optic slid in it. I sighted it in and when I finally pulled the trigger I hit two deer standing next to each other in the backbone when I aimed low in the heart at 50 yards and the third I gave a haircut to at 130 or so yards...all within seconds to fill a few meat tags. I’m sure my optic slid causing the raise POA. I’ve had it do the opposite with my 450 BM.

[W.R.Buchanan]

i have used the 3M77 extensively for gluing sheets of foam to aluminum panels and carpet to the floor of my Jeep. You definitely have to use some care in applying the stuff as it will get everywhere if you're not careful.

Good Product!

The "Barge Cement" is also a contact adhesive and it is used to glue the rubber sheet skirts to barges for protection against abrasion. It just has a higher yield strength and is more water resistant.

Randy

[6pt-sika]

Glad you figured it out. I would tell to buy the Nikon. My protaffs are brighter and clearer than my Leupold vx4's. I was a Leopold fan per looks and brand recognition for years till I looked through a nikon. Its been all Nikons ever since.
If you’re going to buy new I concur get the Nikon . I do however scoop up older Leupold that are of Vari X vintage although I have a couple of the VX scopes I don’t buy them used . And incidentally I just got got another Leupold 36x BR today on top of a 1980-1999 vintage Remington 700 BDL Varmint Special in 222 , hopefully I’ll have it in hand by Monday of next week .

[megasupermagnum]

Oh come on now. The Nikon Prostaff is a great lower price scope on par with the Leupold VX-1, now VX-Freedom. I'm not familiar with the VX-4, but it looks like it would be about what a VX-R is now. There's no way a $150 scope is better than a $500 scope.

That said, I would still recommend the Prostaff or Bushnell Banner as very good lower price scopes.

[Tripplebeards]

Oh come on now. The Nikon Prostaff is a great lower price scope on par with the Leupold VX-1, now VX-Freedom. I'm not familiar with the VX-4, but it looks like it would be about what a VX-R is now. There's no way a $150 scope is better than a $500 scope.

That said, I would still recommend the Prostaff or Bushnell Banner as very good lower price scopes.

I paid $1275.00 for my vx4 “vx 1v”, it’s a 4.5x14 30 mm tube with target turrets back in 2002’ brand new from mid south shooters supply and yes my cheap Pro staffs, pro staff 5’s, and Monarchs are WAY brighter and crisper. That VX four was Leupolds “best and most expensive optic” at the time. I have over two dozen leupolds from vx1 to vx4, vx1V’s and and my cheap nikons are brighter and crisper than every Leopold I own. I wouldn’t own a Bushnell if you gave it to me. I just threw a few away. A Tasco is leaps and bounds compared to a Bushnell and Simmons IMO. They are both some darkest, foggiest optics I’ve ever tried to look through and have never held zero for me...they’re Horrible.

[megasupermagnum]

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. There is nothing wrong with my Bushnell Banner, it's just as good quality as the Nikon Prostaff. Both are on par with the Leupold VX-1, which I am a big fan. I own five of the 1-4x versions. Other than the junk they send on guns, Tasco is the only brand that continually fails me. I had a red dot on a shotgun that lasted about a year, and a scope on a muzzleloader that didn't even survive the first range trip. You obviously had different experiences. IMO anything under $150 and you are better off using open sights, the quality falls of extremely fast on optics.

[Tripplebeards]

Two years ago I sold a 30 mm vx111 30 mm tube, 50 mm silver 4.4x14x silver target leupold that I paid $1400 for back in 2000’. I first sent it into Leopold for repair because of how foggy it looked compared to my cheap $150 pro staff scopes. I figured it was just getting old and maybe the nitrogen seal let loose or lens needed a professional buffing? Nope leupold said that it was perfect and that is the way the lens look and said it was more bright and clear to them than most leupolds they currently offer! I’ll end up selling off the rest of them off soon and upgrading to a different brand. When I was a kid back in the early 80’s that was the scope to buy because of the “name” and it’s still an overpriced name with not a lot of updates. They remind my of the $550 reconyx trail cams I bought when they first came out. My cheap $100 Bushnell trail cams are AWESOME and crystal clear compared to the Reconyx. Once again...all your paying for is the marketing hype and name. They’re quality was top notch in the early 80’s(leupold) and they’ve never improved or updated them imo ever since and have just slid buy on their name recognition. There are so many other optics that are better quality for less money out there now. I looked through a vortex the other day that was almost as bright as my Nikons. There are WAY to many people out there that by Leupold because of the name, I was one of them, and then one day I picked a few other brands to look through at the LGS and saw the light. Literally! I stopped buying scopes because the the “name” on them about 15 years ago. I have four vx1’s as well. They are OK, but no where near as bright as any of my cheap pro staffs. Honestly, I like the looks and weight of the Leupolds better but their glass just plain sucks. My Smith will tell you the same along with the three LGS in the area. Leupold sales have been down for years for a reason. That’s why they came up with the vx1 to try and compete with the other manufacturers trying to get some sales back with a value priced optic. Some guys are just going to defend their gun, optic, truck, ect. Because they bought it, it’s theirs, there is no better, or I bought it because all my buddies have one and they are the best! I don’t care what people think and use what works best...the best that I can afford or budget for. But like you said it just my opinion and that’s what forums are for...to give opinions.

[murf205]

Taylor, I am voting for the scope problems also. My 870 with a Hastings rifled 12ga barrel was eating scopes like candy. A Nikon 4x lasted about 12 rounds and a 4x Leupold lasted even less. I finally put a 3x9 Kahles on it and bingo, it went to shooting nice tight groups. When I had to have the Kahles to put back on another rifle of known heavy recoil, I bought a Burris Fulfield 2x7 shotgun scope and it kept right on shooting great. That scope is now on my sons Ruger Ranch Rifle in 450 Bushmaster and it swallows 300 gr boolits without a hitch. My point is since you are a shotgun hunter already, the Burris scope is not a bank breaker and I think they are tuff as nails when it comes to holding zero. I have a friend who has one of these scopes on a 450 Marlin and he doesn't know the meaning of light loads but his rifle has held its zero for over 100 rounds of 405 gr boolits. I'm not going to bad mouth Leupold but I have had a couple come back from the service dept and they told me that it was good to go only to mount a different scope and have a lot better results.

[NyFirefighter357]

I have 2 Marlin 512's topped with Nikon ProStaff shotgun scopes. These are 12ga bolt action hard recoiling behemoths. I've shot just about every heavy load made and after close to 30yrs never had a problem. Nikon has been making high quality lenses for cameras, lab equipment, scopes, binoculars, spotting scopes, telescopes ect for over 100yrs. These are some of the brands they make:

Binoculars

Sprint IV
Sportstar IV
Travelite V
Travelite VI
Travelite EX
Mikron
Action VII
Action VII Zoom
Aculon
Action EX
Sporter I
Venturer 8/10x32
Venturer 8x42
Prostaff 5
Prostaff 7
Monarch ATB
Monarch 3
Monarch 5
Monarch 7
StabilEyes
Superior E
Marine
EDG II

Spotting scopes

Prostaff 3 16-48x60
Prostaff 5 60
Prostaff 5 80
Spotter XL II WP
Spotting Scope R/A II
Spotting Scope 80
Fieldscope 60mm
Fieldscope ED78/ EDII
Fieldscope III/EDIII
Fieldscope ED82
Fieldscope ED50
Fieldscopes EDG 65 /85
Fieldscope EDG 85 VR

Rifle scopes

BLACK
Monarch 7
Monarch 5
Monarch 3
Monarch
Laser IRT
Prostaff 5
Encore
Coyote Special
Slughunter
Inline
Buckmaster II
Buckmaster
AR
ProStaff II
Prostaff
Team REALTREE rimfire & pistol

[Tripplebeards]

The key is holding your optic ...or not holding....in place is what’s going to kill it as I’ve found out the hard way. Adhesive in your optic rings and bedding your bases/rings to keep it from coming loose is the key. After I had 2 optics come loose in a row Ruger told me to use a light 4x, 1x4, 2x7 because most of these low power optics are extremely light and less weight to shift back and forth during recoil. I like higher power scopes so I ended up gluing everything down with 3M 77 inside the rings, acraglassed the scope base to the action, and loctited all the scope screws. I also after all these years bought a wheeler torque wrench to put equal pressure on my screws instead of guessing. It hasn’t come loose yet...and of course my exact same brand and size replacement optic works just fine now. My 375 and 300 RUMs have WAY more recoil than any 12 gauge and I have zero issues with my Nikon Pro staff 5 3.5x14’s on them. The optic that I killed in my Ruger American 450 Bushmaster slid into the rings till one of the rings cut a slit through the front bell before I noticed it. I cold see inside the scope! No scope will survive abuse like this. Imo most optics don’t fail from recoil...they fail from someone failing to keep them from shifting in the scope rings during recoil. I killed a lot of tasco PP3 red dots the same way back in the early 90’s on my my 44 mag andacondas. Slid back, hit the rings, and that was it. I did kill a few PP3’s without any coming loose as well. There is lot of vibration going causing the internals on an optic to rattle apart when it slides loose during recoil. Especially when it comes to a halt slamming into a scope ring.

Bottom line is what ever optic you choose bed you scope base with acraglass or loctite, loctite you’re screws, skip using rosin(it slipped on two scopes in a row on my 450 BM Ruger American) and apply 3M 77 adhesive inside the rings(I was recommended barge glue as well per above post) to make sure your optic dose not shift during recoil and Im Sure you will have zero problems in the future as long as your gun is bedded properly. A loose bedding job will cause the gun to vibrate apart as well besides shooting large groups.

Otherwise optics are like ford VS Chevy...you can already see the rant going on above. Sorry to get off track with an optic “brand” referral.lol...apparently it opened up a can of worms. You think I called someone’s mother a name.

[Taylor]

I like worms. I've made up my mine. Regardless, if Leupold fixes it or not. I have lost faith in it. So I will get a different one. Right now I have a vet bill. My Redbone of 13 years just passed away. Her remains are my priority now. So until I take care of Maggy, the gun will be on leave.

[tomme boy]

Use the 3 screw tactical rings and you will not have the issues most have with them slipping.

And the Banner scopes are one of the better low end scopes made. I have a 3-9x40 that has been on 5 different muzzle loaders and at least 4 shotguns and a few 22rf rifles. I have lost more scopes to my muzzle loaders than any other guns. And this banner is used to test other guns if I think the scope is giving me problems.

Tasco scopes??? I will not even waste my time with them Maybe the older Japan made ones but never anything after that. Wasted WAY too much $$$$$$$ in time and ammo to ever think about one again.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Taylor: Sorry to hear about your dog. I was a Redbone Owner back in the 70's and they are great dogs. My dog's name was Ralph.

Sorry for your loss.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Great bear and coon dogs! Sorry for your loss.

[bikerbeans]

I m am sorry you lost your friend Maggy. Hardest part of owning a dog is saying goodbye.

BB

[NyFirefighter357]

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. There is nothing wrong with my Bushnell Banner, it's just as good quality as the Nikon Prostaff. Both are on par with the Leupold VX-1, which I am a big fan. I own five of the 1-4x versions. Other than the junk they send on guns, Tasco is the only brand that continually fails me. I had a red dot on a shotgun that lasted about a year, and a scope on a muzzleloader that didn't even survive the first range trip. You obviously had different experiences. IMO anything under $150 and you are better off using open sights, the quality falls of extremely fast on optics.

All the new "cheap" scopes seem to be garbage. I don't trust the Simmons that came on my Knight 50cal. My price point is ProStaff. I do have a bunch of old scopes on old rifles that are still great, old Tascos, Redfields, Bushnells Weavers, even a Marlin branded scope on a 336. I can attest to the quality of those old Banners as I have had one that was old when I put it on a springer air rifle 25 years ago and it's still dead on. BTW I used stripes of duct tape on the rings to give them some traction & shim. Still very accurate all these years later I'd say 100,000+ pellets through her and those springers can kill a good magnum rifle scope.

https://i.imgur.com/oliPNvk.jpg?1

[Tripplebeards]

Yep, I was referring to the old tascos. I had a 4x from the 80's still going strong I gave to my cousin and a 1x75x6 pistol optic I paid $165 that was stollen I really liked.

[Taylor]

My Savage ain't up and running, but I did take a doe yesterday with the Mossberg. Meat in the freezer.

[CITYREPO61]

I also recommend accutips.
When you say slugs are they sabots, foster or brenneke?
Congrats on the doe!

[CITYREPO61]

Forgot to add.
I have a 220 that I run a Nikon Buckmaster 3-9 x 40 on and several 100 rounds down range with no issues.

[Taylor]

Full bore Accurate mold.

[Blood Trail]

Randy Fritz from Tarhunt got a hold me last year to help him promote this custom barrels for the 220. He said that he received a lot of complaints about the slop in 220 barrels, especially the older models. He ran a dial bore gage in random 220 barrels and found high and low spots among the lands and grooves.

His solution was to build a custom barrel made to exact SAAMI specs with extremely tight tolerances. He offered to outfit my 220 so I jumped at the opportunity to send it in.

I haven’t had a chance to really put the new barrel through the ringer, but I like what I see so far.

Perhaps you have one with a bad barrel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tarhunt's barrels are made by Shaw and they will be excellent.

I don't understand why Taylor doesn't just send his gun back to Savage? If it has a bad barrel or some other problem It would get fixed for free as opposed to paying someone to do it.

After looking at his targets it appears that the one full bore accurate slug works really well. As such, I'm inclined to think the problem is ammunition related. Most of the others are all over the place, and this isn't the first time we've seen this type of performance. Slugs seem to either work or not..

I have not gotten any good results shooting anything but Full Bore Slugs or Sabots (STI) from my Rifled Barrels. I doubt many others have either. It has been my experience that anything that is not picking up the rifling in a proper manner (IE; slug contacting Rifling directly) is going to spray shots willy nilly. Trying to shoot the Lyman slug and Lee 1oz Slug thru my rifled barrels was a waste of time, however they performed pretty well from the Smoothbore Buck Special barrel and the Vang Comped M500 barrel..

This is why I suggested using some Lightfield Slugs in his gun. It would provide a baseline load that would eliminate ammunition from the mix so that other issues could be resolved. As you know Lightfield is closely associated with Tarhunt and their products have been proven performers in Savage Slug Guns. Once you got a load that works then you can compare that to others and work up other loads since you'll know what to expect as far as the gun is concerned.

My .02 on this subject.

Randy

[centershot]

Tarhunt's barrels are made by Shaw and they will be excellent.

I don't understand why Taylor doesn't just send his gun back to Savage? If it has a bad barrel or some other problem It would get fixed for free as opposed to paying someone to do it.

After looking at his targets it appears that the one full bore accurate slug works really well. As such, I'm inclined to think the problem is ammunition related. Most of the others are all over the place, and this isn't the first time we've seen this type of performance. Slugs seem to either work or not..

I have not gotten any good results shooting anything but Full Bore Slugs or Sabots (STI) from my Rifled Barrels. I doubt many others have either. It has been my experience that anything that is not picking up the rifling in a proper manner (IE; slug contacting Rifling directly) is going to spray shots willy nilly. Trying to shoot the Lyman slug and Lee 1oz Slug thru my rifled barrels was a waste of time, however they performed pretty well from the Smoothbore Buck Special barrel and the Vang Comped M500 barrel..

This is why I suggested using some Lightfield Slugs in his gun. It would provide a baseline load that would eliminate ammunition from the mix so that other issues could be resolved. As you know Lightfield is closely associated with Tarhunt and their products have been proven performers in Savage Slug Guns. Once you got a load that works then you can compare that to others and work up other loads since you'll know what to expect as far as the gun is concerned.

My .02 on this subject.

Randy

My experience mirrors this somewhat! My Mossberg 500's rifled bore wouldn't group inside of 5-6 inches until I paper-patched the projectile up to .746". That squeezes the bejeezers out of a Federal 12S3 wad, but, the load puts 5 shots, touching, into a 2" group @ 50 yards! In my case the .662" RB was encased in a wad (sabot) but needed the extra diameter to grip the rifling securely. And, yes, I was a bit nervous about pulling the trigger on that first round.......Gotta' love it! :)