Ladle Casting

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve never ladle cast before. I’ve always used a bottom pour pot and kept a cover of flux on top, to keep to lead from oxidizing. When ladle casting, can I still keep flux on top or does it get in the way?

[Don1357]

You are over thinking it a bit. The amount of oxidation would be so minimal that it would be hard to even measure it.

[ThomR]

I've only ever ladle cast, and I've never used any kind of flux. I just scoop up some lead and start pouring.

[wmitty]

I use a ladle and keep a layer of ash from dry leaves on the surface of the melt. No problems noted to date.

[samari46]

Started out trying to use a bottom pour pot never could get it to work. Plugged the spout and started using a ladle. And never looked back. Though I did slightly open the spout on both ladles both RCBS and Lyman. Frank

[Bazoo]

I flux with wax or sawdust but normally just wax, skim it off and cast. I ignore the oxidized lead on top and cast anyways until I start seeing inclusions or I'm in the notion to flux and refill the pot. I find with ladle casting I get good fillout if I have about 3/4" free fall. Also I let the excess lead run over the sprue plate and back into the pot. I get good results this way.

[country gent]

I have a technique that works for me. My pot is 130 lbs when full and gas fired. I cast heavy long bullets for bpcr. I normally run around 725* on the melt. The ladle only leaves the pot to pour. Wen I fill the ladle to pour I make a swirl 1 revolution around pot under the surface raise ladle and pour the full ladle into the mould letting the excess run back into the pot. My 550 grn bullets are normally within .5 grns for the day doing this. I have modified my ladles with a stop collar on the shaft, allows the ladle to hang in pot without handle being so close. And opened spouts up to .210 dia from .170-.180 for a better flow. Experiment and see what works for you

[mdi]

I normally stir the melt a bit with every ladle full. I "flux" good when the alloy is hot enough and keep it stirred. Stir, dip, pour. Repeat. Keeps the cleaned melt mixed up, no oxidation formed on surface...

[Wayne Smith]

Oxidation occurs when the melt is exposed to air. Ladle casting exposes more to the air, and the tin oxidizes out first. Thus you get a tin layer on your alloy eventually. Wax reduces this back into the melt. I have only ladle cast and have always had wax available. I probably use it two or three times during a long session, mostly to get the tin back into the melt.

[DonHowe]

I ladle cast for BPCR and Schuetzen with single cavity molds. The ladle is RCBS with the spout opened slightly. I flux periodically and push aside any flux or ash on the surface before plunging the ladle in the melt.
The ladle is filled about 3/4 full. I hold the mold sideways and place the ladle spout against the spruce hole and rotate mold and ladle vertical together. For big bullets I will do a 3 count before lifting the ladle, pouring a puddle on the spruce plate. I will vary the count slightly and also the amount of lead in the ladle depending on bullet size and what a particular mold likes.
This routine is what I have settled on to maintain consistency. Your mileage may vary.

[JM7.7x58]

I cast both ways, with a ladle and with a bottom pour pot.
When I am smelting lead in my cast-iron Dutch oven I will ladle pour. My ladle is a heavy duty stainless steel kitchen ladle that I have drilled a 3/32 hole in the bottom of. I have also bent the handle 90°.
The ladle stays hot in the melt. I pour directly over the pot and let the excess return to the pot. I can make a lot of boolits fast this way. It stays very clean, the oxides float on the surface, clean lead flows out the bottom.
When I am done casting, and ready to make ingots, I plug the hole with a sheet metal screw, and start making muffins. Two tools in one.
And the ladle only cost $1.99 at the Goodwill.
JM

[KCSO]

I have always gotten more uniform bullets by ladle casting. This is the only way I make match bullets. In addition my Lee pots are no longer ear marked as drippy Richard. A screw in the spout and its fixed.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Ladle casting is the only kind I do anymore -- the bottom pour went away long ago. I've got a big propane outdoor cooking burner, and a big cast iron cooking pot that I set on top in which to melt the lead. When it becomes molten I drop in a piece of candle wax about the size of a nickel. Then I stir it with the ladle, and it usually catches fire briefly (not always). This causes any dross to float to the surface. I skim it off and dump it into a tin can which is disposed of in the garbage. That usually leaves a thin scum of darker stuff floating on the surface of the lead. Don't skim that off-- it's good stuff. I mix it back in occasionally with the ladle. I usually use 3 different molds for 3 different boolits and swap them around to keep them from overheating. I water drop all my boolits. One afternoon session can turn out a very good supply. I mostly use straight clip on wheel weights as the lead source, but once in a while will maybe add a little tin.

DG

[762sultan]

I cast like Wayne Smith and flux every hour or so or when lead is added to the pot.

[WRideout]

I am also a ladle caster, and a certified cheapskate. I discovered that one partly used birthday cake candle is just the right amount of wax to flux my Lee dipper pot. When the alloy is molten I flux well with wax, and do it again about halfway through, or whenever I think it needs it.

Basically any kind of casting is bottom pour, since the heavy lead always runs out of the ladle first.

Wayne

[RU shooter]

I've only ever used a ladle my ingots are already clean from the smelt/fluxing I only ever just skim off any oxides in my pot with a slotted spoon every half hr or so when it develops . I cast in the basement so if I did flux all it would do is stink up the house and a shout from upstairs of what are you burning down there !

[GhostHawk]

I had a lee drip o matic in my younger years for some 2 months. Gave it away.

Since then (late 70's) I have always dipper cast.

Once in a while if I am seeing a lot of gray powder which could be oxidised tin I'll drop a pea sized ball of wax or bullet lube in.

When I'm dipping, any oxidation is on the top, I'm filling my ladle below that. Plus, any which does get into the ladle. As I turn and start pouring. The ladle nipple is at the bottom, so skim is at the top or back of my ladle. It is the last to go out.

The other thing I do is when I am pressure casting, I hold that for maybe a second, then roll the ladle further up opening a crack for hot metal to exit. With a little practice you can easily control the size stream. So as the melt cools in the mold it has melt moving acoss that it can draw from. And any imperfections rise to the top and are floated away.

Try it, it is not hard, and it keeps the mold from cooling the ladle nipple so the lead freezes in there.

I do a single skim when the melt is fully liquid with an old stirling fork. What comes up on the fork gets knocked off in a drippings pot which I start any smelt session with. Yeah I pinch penny's till they squeak. I come by it honestly, born into the blood and bone and beat into my head by a father who loved me but had concerns of my being able to make my own way in the world.

[Greg S]

I have an older RCBS bottom pour and a Lee 20lb Pot. I use the RCBS for 90 x5x5 and the Lee for everything else. I prefer ladle over the bottom pour and only resort to it for certified alloy without having to clear out the Lee pot. I'll fix that soon with an RCBS ladle pot.

I prefer the ladle over the bottom pour because I know how to get a good consistant result with the ladle especially with heavy boolits. A few small molds require pressure pouring and trying to accomplish it without a mess on a bottom pour is awkward to me.

[RogerDat]

Oxidation occurs when the melt is exposed to air. Ladle casting exposes more to the air, and the tin oxidizes out first. Thus you get a tin layer on your alloy eventually. Wax reduces this back into the melt. I have only ladle cast and have always had wax available. I probably use it two or three times during a long session, mostly to get the tin back into the melt.

Same here. I also use a paint stir stick to scrape the top layer of dross to the side and crush the skimmed dross against the pot side. Most of the dross tends to go back into the melt. The occasional bit of wax helps too. Salvation Army candles, bought on sale, not much money for lots of wax. Bees wax is better but sort of pricey for this I think.

[winelover]

I ladle cast with either of three of the most common commercially made furnaces. Two of which, are bottom pours............RCBS ProMelt, Lyman Mag 25 and a RBCS Easy Melt. All hold 20+ pounds of alloy. I use a #2 Rowel bottom pour ladle, the diameter of which, is just a little smaller than the pot opening. I keep nothing, floating on the surface of the melt. Surface oxidation is negligible, if you return the ladle to the pot, between pours. Sprews are immediately returned to the pot...........this method allows me to cast for a couple of hours, without having to flux or even skim. Re-fluxing is only done when clean ingots are added. For this, I use a pea size piece of bullet lube.

Winelover

[GregLaROCHE]

When ladle casting, are people using only single or maybe double molds? Can you ladle cast for six cavity molds with big boolit sizes?

[Bazoo]

The most I've used so far is double cavity moulds, but I sometimes run them in tandem.

[winelover]

When ladle casting, are people using only single or maybe double molds? Can you ladle cast for six cavity molds with big boolit sizes?

I like to stick with mould blocks that will fit across the top of the pot. Keeps the run off, from the overflowing sprew puddle, flow back into the pot. I frequently use four cavity blocks, in my three mentioned pots. Biggest bullet, I cast in a four cavity, is a 265 grain 44 caliber bullet. However, the #2 Rowell, holds plenty of lead..............2 pounds worth, IIRC. That's more than enough for multiple large heavy bullets.

Winelover

[Peregrine]

When ladle casting, are people using only single or maybe double molds? Can you ladle cast for six cavity molds with big boolit sizes?

I do a 220gr. 5 cav.

[GregLaROCHE]

I haven’t bought a ladle yet, but I think I will. About how much lead do the RCBS and Lyman ladles hold? Doesn’t sound like one is better than the other. I guess I’ll go for the best price if no one advises me otherwise.
Thanks for all the info.

[winelover]

I haven’t bought a ladle yet, but I think I will. About how much lead do the RCBS and Lyman ladles hold?


Not nearly enough, IMO. Especially, for one just starting to ladle pour. Do yourself a favor and buy a bottom pour Rowell ladle. At least a #1, preferably a #2 size. Roto-Metals carries them. I just added them to my lead order. IIRC, a #1 holds a pound of lead, a #2, holds twice that amount. I recommend shortening the handles, though. The long handles are good for smelting but are unwieldy for casting. BTW, I have a RCBS ladle. It just sits unused. I did re-purpose the handle for my #1 Rowell............same threads, shorter handle.

[Wayne Smith]

I cast a 420gr 45 caliber six cavity Lee mold. Have to fill the ladle twice. Not a problem.

[JM7.7x58]

When ladle casting, are people using only single or maybe double molds? Can you ladle cast for six cavity molds with big boolit sizes?

My heavy duty stainless kitchen ladle with a 3/32" hole can hold a muffin tin ingot worth of alloy. I use a six cavity Lee mold to cast 148 gr .358 WC boolits. I only need to fill the ladle half full when I cast with this mold. Excess lead drips back into the 8" Dutch Oven.

The large surface area of the 8" pan does promote oxidation. Because of this I leave a layer of carbon ash on the melt surface.

JM

[kmw1954]

I haven’t bought a ladle yet, but I think I will. About how much lead do the RCBS and Lyman ladles hold? Doesn’t sound like one is better than the other. I guess I’ll go for the best price if no one advises me otherwise..

Just getting started myself and my very first purchase is a Lyman ladle found on ebay. $14.50 total price, shipped to my door. I also have a bid on a Lee 2 cavity mold for the 380acp. The bullets are only 102gr and I figure this ladle will handle it just fine. Still undecided on how I am going to melt lead.

[country gent]

I like the rcbs version a little better than the lyman and it does hold a little more alloy. In my big pot the #1 rowel ladle will dip good, but its a tight fit in the electric pots. I also don't care for the longer handle on it for bullets, ingots its fine. The rowels do come in may sizes, I believe the #1 is a 1 lb ladle so a lot of lead there.

[bedbugbilly]

Don't over think it. I tried a bottom pour once just a couple of years ago - wasn't for me and I went right back to ladle pouring. I've ladle poured cast for over 55 years now. Everything from single cavity "bag molds" (round ball) to hollow base.

The number of cavities a mold has really has nothing to do with ladle casting. I think the most cavities I have is a 5 cavity mold. I have always used a bottom pour Lyman ladle. The number of cavities you can pour at "one time" - i.e. with one ladle full - is going to depend on how heavy the grain weight the bullet cavity is. I have some 4 cavities (NOE) for 38/257/9mm that I can easily pour all cavities with one ladle full. I have a NOE for the clone of a 454190 Lyman that requires me to put two cavities, dip and pour the next two. You can quickly learn to do it by keeping your lead and mold warm enough to go with the cadence of your pours.

As far as worrying about oxidizing, fluxing, etc. - again - don't overthink it. With a bottom pour ladle like the Lyman/Ideal or a RCBS, you are dipping down into the pot of molten lead and when you put into a mold cavity, you are essentially pouring from the bottom of the ladle. I've never had an issue or need to constantly keep fluxing - I flux with a dab of beeswax once the pot gets hot and unless the ingots I've purchased are exceedingly dirty, I don't flux again until I've poured enough to add lead to the pot - then wait for it to mel, flux and move on.

I'm not knocking bottom pour pots - I admire those that have the patience to use them and if they work for you, that's great. I'm just so used to using a pot and ladle that I'm more comfortable in that method and I have never had issues with it - have cast tens of thousands of hollow base mini balls and other boolits - never got in to hollow point. I use a cast iron Ideal pot the is much older than I and I'm no spring chicken. I've cast over wood fires, gas fired plumber's pots, LP hot plates - all good with them all.

[georgerkahn]

GregLaROCHE -- A lot of good replies and suggestions vis your great question :), but the ladle I use has yet to be mentioned. Mine is made by RCBS, and has a bottom pour hole on its bottom. I often have a fairly thick (~3/16") layer of sawdust atop my melt, to attenuate tin oxidation, etc., and was faced with same query as you posted. Hence, it seemed (and it works!) this RCBS tool would function. I dip it in the pot, stir things about to ensure a good alloy mix, and even if there are specks or pieces on top, it is moot, as a clean silver stream is dispensed from bottom.
Just to offer an option which may work for you :).
248223

[trapper9260]

I do both pour, mainly bottom pour. When I use the ladle I use the same one I use for smelting. it is a good size one. I do have a Lyman but found the hole is small and after read what one on here done to there I will try that. I do cast 6 cav for 44 cal and with the ladle I use for smelting I am able to fill the cav. with out any problem.I flux before I start to pour but after I clean off the top .I just pour till I am down at the bottom of the pot.

[dverna]

When ladle casting, are people using only single or maybe double molds? Can you ladle cast for six cavity molds with big boolit sizes?

When I started, a ladle cast with a 10 cavity H&G mold and a 20# Lyman pot. It was a good sized ladle. Produced very accurate bullets.

I could not do it now as it is a heavy setup.