Casting Mentor?

[kmw1954]

Hello everyone. I occasionally see mention of finding a mentor but I can't say I've ever seen anyone ask for one! Well here it is.

I have been thinking of doing this for some time and am not sure if it is right for me but I would surely like to find out. I am retired so funds are limited and do not want to just blindly jump in and start buying equipment and molds w/o having a clue as to what I'm doing or just what all is involved. I do know that my primary interest will be in small .356" for the 380acp and for the 45acp once I get started.

So I am located in Western Kenosha County Wisconsin and would be willing to travel about an hour to do this. Anyone?

[guywitha3006]

Hey KMW,

I am a little outside your radius, but if you find yourself up in Green Bay, I am just north of there in Pulaski. I am still unpacking my stuff from moving this spring but know where most of my stuff is. I know I have a least 1 .45 mould and I think a 105 .356 mold among others (different calibers, same process). Is there part of the process in particular you want to see or try? I mainly powder coat my bullets so I don't have a ton of lubing equipment but I can help talk you through it if you want to go that direction.

Guywitha3006

[Three44s]

Hope you find a mentor “in the flesh” but you are in the finest virtual mentoring web sight in the world already in case the in person try does not pan out.

I will say this: I began casting back before Owl Gore had finished inventing the internet. I am no genius but with just a Lyman cast bullet book and some fooling around I began to trundle through ..... well muddle through anyway.

If you can arrange an in person mentoring scenario, more power to you but barring that I think you can wind your way around and into casting with what you already have. Just slip off a shoe and put a toe into the process (just kidding about running a casting operation with a bare foot, lead splatters and such).

I would begin with your 45 because big lead casts easier than little lead with a cheap little Lee 2 cavity mold. I would also suggest going with powder coat rather than lube unless you are thinking liquid alox. The cheap Lee sizer to keep your start up cost down for now.

You can always add a lubrisizer later and more expensive molds (more cavities etc.)

There is used stuff around because there are always retiring casters and also folks that plunge into a given discipline and then they get buyers remorse and flop back out of it giving an astute buyer a bargain.

Three44s

[clintsfolly]

I am out of the area to but if you get to mid Michigan let me know. The first weekend of October I am setting up a bench and casting at a local Color Cruise.

[Burnt Fingers]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

Read this. It's got a lot of information that even some veteran casters don't know.

I would suggest using Hi-Tek instead of lubing boolits. It takes a minimal amount of equipment.

IF you know you're going to stick with casting I'd highly suggest you start with a decent mold. RCBS, NOE, MP, Arsenal, or Accurate.

I kind of had a head start when I started casting boolits. I had been casting sinkers and jigs for years. I already had a few lead pots, including a RCBS Pro-Melt.

I wish I could have the money back I spent on Lee molds when I started. I never use them now. I should have just gotten a NOE or MP to start.

[Don1357]

I have Lee and Lyman molds. From either brand molten lead goes in, boolits come out. If you are low in funds it makes more sense to pick four Lee molds for what a single NOE mold would cost.

[Bazoo]

I'd be glad to teach all I know if you were in my area.

[kmw1954]

Thanks all. Hoping to find someone to get Hands On Experience. Actually doing the work seems to prove more useful.

From all the reading I've done here and elsewhere I can see that to even get started one could easily drop a few hundred dollars between a furnace and a couple molds. Right now I foresee an electric furnace and 2 molds. One of which will be a Lee 356-102-1R for my 380 which I have already tried some samples that were provided my a couple of members here. The other mold will be a 200gr 45acp type mold of some flavor. As for lead I figure for my needs I can start with processed ingots from the member here or from ebay. Figure 50# would be a very sufficient number.

[kungfustyle]

the captain http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?127-The-Captain range lead ingots clean as a whistle for about $1/lb. Good place for lead and what you are using it for, she is a great resource. If you need it harder you can always water quench. or http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?359915-VS-Cast-bullets-for-9mm-38-357-40-sw-10mm-45-acp
you could just buy some pc'd boolits and reload them to try it out.
Lee: pot about $60, reloading die about $25, press $35 to $120, sizing die $20, mold $25
you can always resell what you want to upgrade, but Lee is a decent way to start.
A two cavity mold for pistols is a bit of a chore don't rule out http://arsenalmolds.com/bullet-molds/9MM,%20.357,%20.38,%20BULLETS,%20CAST%20BULLETS?li mit=100
If you wanted to you could set up a skype session with just about any of us. I'll throw my hat into that ring.

[kmw1954]

Thanks kungfustyle,
Yes that is who I was referring to as a lead source here. I have considered buying some coated ACME 45acp to try but again because I have used a few different .356" samples I already know I want the Lee 102-1R mold, Will also most likely go with the Lee pass thru sizing dies on an old single stage press I have that is not being used.

[Don1357]

Just to get your feet wet you could get started with a hot plate, a dipper, and a thrift store pot. The bonus of this approach is that you can leisurely keep an eye out for an electric pot at a bargain price.

[kmw1954]

I didn't know that a hot plate would get hot enough to melt lead or stay hot enough to cast.

[Tom W.]

Don't melt alloy in an aluminum pot. Bad things can happen.

[dverna]

You are overthinking it. Most of us learned way before the internet and many of us did not have a mentor.

Some "mentors" may not know much anyway so consider that. You may learn the not so good way of doing things!

Start with the .45. It is one of the easiest to cast for. Tiny bullets will want to cast fast and going slower is more comfortable when you are learning.

You can cast with some inexpensive equipment if funds are limited.

Read the stuff suggested and the Lyman book.

It is not rocket surgery and poor bullets can be remelted.

[gwpercle]

Just to get your feet wet you could get started with a hot plate, a dipper, and a thrift store pot. The bonus of this approach is that you can leisurely keep an eye out for an electric pot at a bargain price.

Forget the new hot plates , I bought a nice new 1500 KW plate that wouldn't stay hot enough , long enough to melt lead ... just about time the lead started to melt ...the thing would shut off .. safety feature ! I returned that thing ... they are so safe now days they are useless .
$60.00 gets you a Lee Magnum Melter , plug it in wall receptacle , holds a lot of lead and heats up fast . Get that and a Lyman dipper ladle with the little spout on the side along with a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook , that will get you up and running.

Started in 1967 , no mentor , no internet and no Castboolits...the biggest help !
Gary

[bdicki]

A Coleman stove will work as a heat source.

[kmw1954]

Thankfully I am only about a hour or so away from Titan Reloading so I can get most of what I want or need from them once I decide on a furnace pot. Can go it alone if needed but it certainly would have been fun to work alongside someone that is experienced and could answer question as we go or point out technics and mishaps.

[country gent]

Start out slow. Watch yard sales for a steel pot a gas hot plate or coleman stove. A ladle and your molds. A small shallow pan to pan lube in and a old case to use as a cutter. Get your feet wet and improve as you go. add sizers and sizing dies if you need or want them. A steel or cast iron pot and ladle with lee mould will pour a lot of very good bullets. The coleman stove or gas hot plate will work fine another is a deep frier burner and stand. ( This can be used for smelting also). Learn your moulds and get casting good bullets then upgrading or adding equipment is easier with the experience.

[kmw1954]

Logically a question I have is equipment sizing. Here I already know that I want to do the Lee 356-102-1R mold and that it only comes in a 2 cavity version so about what kind of time does it take to pour 2#, 5# ?? Will the 4# pot and ladle keep up? Would the Pro4 be to big a pot for pouring these small bullets with only 2 cavities?

[Three44s]

The size of the spout is fairly standard from small bottom pour pots to large ones. The spruce plate where you pour the lead alloy stream through is the same diameter in a given brand of mold whether the bullet is small or large.

So yes a 4# or a larger bottom pour such as a Lee 20# and also a large Lyman or RCBS or Saceo will feed lead into both mold sizes you are contemplating.

Three44s

[kmw1954]

Three44's maybe I didn't phrase that correctly.

So small 102gr bullet with only 2 cavities. Would the capacity of the 4# pot be large enough to keep up using a ladle or would one be waiting too much for the pot to catch up. Would the 20# Pro4 be too large a pot? How low does one allow the pot to get before adding material?

[Bazoo]

kmw, the 4 lbs pot will not be suitable. Yes you can use it. However my experience with it is that just about the time you get the mould just the right temperature and get rolling, the pot needs refilling. The 20 pound magnum melter is much easier to maintain a good cadence for as long as you want to cast.

You can't cast the entire weight of a pot, you don't want to scrape the bottom of the pot to get lead. This introduces any crud at the bottom into your ladle. Also with a smaller pot you have a wilder variation of alloy temperature. The larger diameter pot allows for more room to flux and clean too.

I suggest the Lyman ladle. I removed the extra nub it had for left handed use.

With any mould, but especially one for a smaller bullet, you can let your ladle empty over the sprue, allowing the excess molten lead to run down the side of the mould and back into the pot. This helps get the sprue cutter and mould up to temp should it become somewhat cold during use.

For the initial warmup here is what I do. I let my pot and ladle get hot together, say on 7 for the lee. Then after liquidus is achieved, I flux with wax. I scrape the sides and bottom of the pot, and the ladle with a former eatin' spoon. I scrape the inside of the ladle with a piece of stick.

So then, with the ladle in the clean lead, I rubber band the handles of the mould so they can't open, and I put my mould in the lead. Not all the way in, about 1/8-1/4 of it. Not submerging over the sprue holes, but so the blocks and the tip of the sprue cutter are touching lead. Let it rest against the ladle and side of the pot and it'll hold itself and heat. Maybe a minute. Then I take it out and fill it. Lots of times I get good bullets the first cast this way. You can get the mould too hot though, which will make a perfectly usable, but frosty bullet.

I find it easier to be above ideal temperature and let the mould cool into it than to try to heat it to temperature. The metal parts of the handles will have to come to temperature too. They suck heat from the mould until they do. Once it all reaches temperature your cadence will slow to keep at the right temperature. You find a sweet spot.

Another tip I have learned, is to use a carpenter pencil to lube the mould. Graphite. Color the top of the blocks, underside of the sprue cutter, alignment pins and holes, and try to work a little at the sprue cutter pivot before you start. Then if you have a lead smear between sprue cutter and mould blocks, you can wipe it with a rag and recolor while still hot. Saved me a heap of frustration over trying to use oil for mould lube.

Heat cycle the mould a couple times when it's new, that will help lock in the screws on a lee mould, which like to loosen with use.

I clean my moulds with brake cleaner and lighter fluid. Mostly lighter fluid. I have used lighter fluid when the mould was hot, and it didn't burst into flames. (Try at your own risk.) Handy to know. It doesn't cool the mould rapidly like brake cleaner does, which is bad. I spray my iron moulds with remoil between uses and only lighter fluid them cold to remove it. Some boil their moulds and do all sorts of things to clean or preserve them, no disparagement meant, this is just how I do it.

[GhostHawk]

For years I cast on the natural gas kitchen stove, with a 7" cast iron frying pan and a lymon ladle.

Worked for basic casting including fishing sinkers.

Eventually I found a 4 pound dipper pot for sale here used extremely low priced. My wife talked me into it. 2 years later I heard about the 20lb magnum melter and a month later was using it.

I agree that 4 lbs is not enough, 10 would work. The 20 lb magnum melter is a dream.
I have mine set next to a double burner electric hotplate for prewarming molds which IMO is well worth taking the time to set up. Especially once you start buying the bigger molds like the Lee 6 cavity. So while the melter is melting the mold is warming and when all is ready bullets rain.

I have Lee 2 cavity molds that have cast 5 to 10 thousand bullets and as long as I treat them right are still going strong.
Considering the intial investment that is a pretty good deal.

There is a lot to read about when it comes to lube vs Powdercoat.
I was right at the cusp of diving into PC when I happened to read about Ben's Liquid Lube. I dove that way instead, never been sorry. But your mileage may vary.

Either way exciting times for you, you have much to read about, learn, experience.
Enjoy the journey. Every caliber is different, has its own preferences, likes and dislikes.

Some of the things you may try may leave you stuck out in the boonies. No sweat, just check the stickies and if you truly managed to get someplace unique, ask. I bet many of us have been in similar if not the same spot.

[Burnt Fingers]

With that small of a boolit and ladle pouring the 4 lb pot is fine. Just keep feeding the sprues back into the pot and have a ingot sitting on the edge to preheat.

How long will it take to pour 5 lbs of boolits? That would be 340 boolits. At least a couple of hours. A bottom pour pot is much quicker.

NOE is having a 20% off sale. Code 2hot09. http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_384&products_id=2917&osCsid=h2a4krpj2nokcs907gvvk8crr1

They have one four cavity mold left.

[Greg B.]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this but do not ever get water even a drop into molten lead. A small explosion will result. In short you will be blessed by the tinsel fairy.

[reddog81]

A 4 lbs pot would be awfully small. I’ve got a lee 20 lbs bottom pour and usually get about 8 to 10 pounds of bullets out of it. I fill it up to about the 1/2 an inch from the top and usually leave about an inch or so of lead in the bottom before stopping and refilling.

Unless your filling the 4 lbs pot to the absolute max and draining it all the way to the bottom (which isn't realistic with a laddle) you will realistically get quite a bit less than 4 lbs of bullets out of the pot. A 2 cavity mold goes pretty slow. The Lee 6 cavity molds are a much better option you shoot any significant quantity. But I don’t know if laddle pouring a 6 cavity would work very well.

I usually shoot 200 to 300 rounds in a range visit. If shooting 300 rounds of 45 ACP 200 grain bullets thats not too far off from 10 pounds of lead. I try and make it to the range 2 or 3 times per month when the weathers nice. 50 lbs of lead will last me about the 3 months during the summer.

[kmw1954]

Don't melt alloy in an aluminum pot. Bad things can happen.

OK, Now explain why. I do have a 2ct. very heavy aluminum pot with a heavy riveted handle. I don't think there would be a problem with an overheat or the pot collapsing.

Have also been told to stay away from propane burners as they do not develop enough heat.

So between the site here and the members on THR I get a mixed message that the 4# pot is too small and some saying it works just fine with small 2 cavity molds when used with a ladle..

Also with these small bullets 50# of lead will produce over 3k of these 102gr bullets which I think would be a very fine start. At current usage that is almost 2 years worth of bullets for the 380.

[reddog81]

I’m sure a 4 lbs pot will work if needed but I wouldn’t want to be stuck using one. I guess it all depends on how much time you’ve got and how much you shoot.

Aluminum pots can give out after prolonged use at the temperatures used to melt lead. It’s probably not going to happen right away but if it does happen the potential for serious injury exists. Having a couple pounds of molten metal come crashing down on a your feet is going to ruin your day in a hurry.

[kmw1954]

I’m sure a 4 lbs pot will work if needed but I wouldn’t want to be stuck using one. I guess it all depends on how much time you’ve got and how much you shoot. .

Well I know how much I shoot and have a pretty good idea of how much time I have, I just have no idea how much time this takes or how long I can stick with it during any one session.

Again I know one will be done with a 102gr 2 cavity mold. So about how much time would it take to cast 200? 500?

[Burnt Fingers]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this but do not ever get water even a drop into molten lead. A small explosion will result. In short you will be blessed by the tinsel fairy.

Not true. A drop of sweat on top of the lead fizzles. What you don't want it water UNDER the molten lead.

[Burnt Fingers]

OK, Now explain why. I do have a 2ct. very heavy aluminum pot with a heavy riveted handle. I don't think there would be a problem with an overheat or the pot collapsing.

Have also been told to stay away from propane burners as they do not develop enough heat.

So between the site here and the members on THR I get a mixed message that the 4# pot is too small and some saying it works just fine with small 2 cavity molds when used with a ladle..

Also with these small bullets 50# of lead will produce over 3k of these 102gr bullets which I think would be a very fine start. At current usage that is almost 2 years worth of bullets for the 380.

Aluminum loses a LOT of strength at normal lead melting temperature. When that happens the weight of the lead in the pot caused the aluminum to stretch and then let loose.

Propane works just fine for melting lead. That's how I render/smelt raw scrap lead into ingots.

4 lb pot? With a good ladle the USEABLE amount of lead available is about half that.

[kmw1954]

OKwell, the aluminum pot was just a passing thought because I have it and as best I can judge by pictures is that it is about the same size as the 4# Lee electric pot. Which still would leave a means of heating it up. At Titan Reloading the 4# Lee pot can be bought new for only $39.02 while the Lee Pro 4 can be had for $69.00.. Which again comes back to why I feel it better to just buy a new one than look for a used one.

Which still brings me back to session times. About how long does it take to melt 4#? How long to pour 2#, 100gr bullet with a 2 cavity mold? How long to melt and refill the 2 pounds poured? What about adding ingots as you pour? Does that decrease temp too much? Ballpark numbers would be fine.

[Tom W.]

Well, the others told you why not to use an aluminum pot, so I won't kick that dog again.
Propane works just fine.
I started out with an old Lodge frying pan on top of an electric stove, with a bent tablespoon for a dipper. I also had to replace a few eyes on the stove. I found that it behooved me to buy a Lee 10 pound bottom pour pot thereafter, but it took a while for it to melt the alloy and depending on what I was casting at the time I usually added an ingot when the alloy was about halfway down in the pot.If you wait too long it will lower the temp and you have more waiting time to contend with. The 20 pound Lee pot that I got later was a blessing.
As for times, well, it's not a hobby for the impatient. I usually crank my Lee 20 lb. pot to as hot as the dial reads, and after a few casts when the molds heat up I just keep a steady cadence. I don't worry about frosted boolits, but I don't want them to dent or bend when they fall out of the mold, either. The lightest boolit I cast is a 125 gr .357 diameter Lee that I shoot from my 9mm pistols. It takes a while to make a pile of them, but with a six cavity mold it doesn't take much time at all after the mold heats up.

[Tom W.]

Well, the others told you why not to use an aluminum pot, so I won't kick that dog again.
Propane works just fine.
I started out with an old Lodge frying pan on top of an electric stove, with a bent tablespoon for a dipper. I also had to replace a few eyes on the stove. I found that it behooved me to buy a Lee 10 pound bottom pour pot thereafter, but it took a while for it to melt the alloy and depending on what I was casting at the time I usually added an ingot when the alloy was about halfway down in the pot.If you wait too long it will lower the temp and you have more waiting time to contend with. The 20 pound Lee pot that I got later was a blessing.
As for times, well, it's not a hobby for the impatient. I usually crank my Lee 20 lb. pot to as hot as the dial reads, and after a few casts when the molds heat up I just keep a steady cadence. I don't worry about frosted boolits, but I don't want them to dent or bend when they fall out of the mold, either. The lightest boolit I cast is a 125 gr .357 diameter Lee that I shoot from my 9mm pistols. It takes a while to make a pile of them, but with a six cavity mold it doesn't take much time at all after the mold heats up.