T/C or Traditions

[wbwilly]

New to muzzleloading rifles. I'm a Cowboy Action Shooter (both cap n ball and black powder cartridge) and BPCR.

I want to shoot a couple of primitive biathlon's and looking for a rifle. There is a TC 45 cal that is described as "very good" but I wont see it for a couple of days for $295 and muzzleloaders.com has a Traditions Hawken Woodsman in 50, new, for $395. Cost is really not a factor.

What worries me about the TC is weight, a pound heavier than the Traditions and from what I've been reading on the net...a lack of repair parts.

The biathlon's have targets at 40-50 yards so I don't need a tack driver.

I'm actually leaning towards the new Traditions rifle but I know nothing of their quality.

Any and all comments welcome.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I'm a fan of T/C but all the ones I have were made before S&W bought them so I do not know about the newer ones

[45workhorse]

If possible handle each rifle and see which one 'feels' better. I am kinda partial to TC. Quality/finish and fit is 'usually' better. Just my humble opinion! YMMV.

[wbwilly]

I know the T/C is usually the better rifle but based on my concerns about parts and weight, would I get hurt buying Traditions?

[jj500]

You wouldn't get hurt buying it but you would be happier down the line with the T/C.Better quality than the Traditions.IMO

[45workhorse]

Take a look at Track of the Wolf, Jim Chambers, Jedediah Star and Dixie Gun Works. Just a few place you can get 'custom' kits to your specs.

Have you thought of a fowler, quick easy loading good for the range you are talking about. They will weigh less than a rifle. You can shoot either buck shot or round ball.
Parts for TC can be found at Numrich arms (sometimes) and Dixie gun works.

Just some more things to think about.

[Theditchman]

I have six T/C's of varying calibers....Ive never found a shortage of parts...ebay is full of used and the mentioned dealers have most of the new and aftermarket parts..I find a pound difference in weight is hardly felt when lugging it around....I would go for what feels right when its in your shoulder and your ready to pull that trigger

[Edward]

New to muzzleloading rifles. I'm a Cowboy Action Shooter (both cap n ball and black powder cartridge) and BPCR.

I want to shoot a couple of primitive biathlon's and looking for a rifle. There is a TC 45 cal that is described as "very good" but I wont see it for a couple of days for $295 and muzzleloaders.com has a Traditions Hawken Woodsman in 50, new, for $395. Cost is really not a factor.

What worries me about the TC is weight, a pound heavier than the Traditions and from what I've been reading on the net...a lack of repair parts.

The biathlon's have targets at 40-50 yards so I don't need a tack driver.

I'm actually leaning towards the new Traditions rifle but I know nothing of their quality.

Any and all comments welcome.

Weight is all in the right place with the TC, hence so is accuracy . And my 45 s are not heavy just accurate /Ed

[Good Cheer]

If you can find a small half stock for cheap and stick the barrel you want on it...
http://i.imgur.com/FQ8slpY.jpg (https://imgur.com/FQ8slpY)

Then make it what you want.

[Markopolo]

i should say I have 3 traditions, and all have served me wonderfully... good price point.. available parts... pretty decent build... i especially like my inline 50 buckstalker with the speed breech plug.. i can put 4 shots through the center at 100 with my homemade primer caps, home made powder and home made lee real... whats not to like?

[wbwilly]

Thanks All. I'm driving to Maine for a cowboy shoot and will be able to stop at KTP to see the TC on Thursday but the Traditions is mail order. We'll see how it looks.

By the way I shoot a 9lb Henry 1860 for cowboy so shooting the 9lb TC isn't the issue, it's lugging it around. I do wish it was as light as my trapdoor carbine though ;)

This is the TC. All the pics Kittery sent me look good but no bore description
247795

[megasupermagnum]

Are you only looking at the TC hawken? The new englander is a pound lighter or so. Comparing TC and Traditions, it isn't even a comparison. Thompson Center is better. Parts are no problem. Nipples are a standard thread. You can find any part used on ebay easy. What else do you need? Other than the nipple, there isn't anything to replace.

[Buzzard II]

I prefer the T/C. Don't worry much about the bore. It can always be redone by Bobby Hoyt, 717-642-6696, he can change caliber too, as long as a bad bore is cheap enough to buy. Parts are available on flea bay and L&R Lock, as well as Track of the Wolf. Weathervane across the street from KTP has good, in-expensive food.

[wbwilly]

Thanks. KTP has a bunch of rifles so I'll look when I get there. I want a Hawken simply because I've always wanted one. The rifle will not get used much, maybe a couple of times a year and I just want it to be accurate enough so it doesn't embarrass me ;) I'm not sure how many good years I have left to see the targets because of ARMD and this is solely for play.

Buzzard II, did you ever shoot the SASS NE Regional in NH?

[fifty four]

T/C has a great reputation, and if the bore is good to go, you should be very happy with it. Traditions: all I have fired are percussion models, Kentucky, Frontier, Hawken Woodsman, and all were excellent shooters. Never had a problem with them.

[45workhorse]

Have it bored out, or replace the barrel to a larger bore! Lighter in weight.

Just remember bigger balls weigh more...….:kidding:

[OverMax]

Just another's opinion.
I'd pick the Tradition for a all around shooter.
45 cal calls for its shooter to be a very proficient shot. Especially when shooting patched ball. Little 126 gr ball fly's along at a pretty good clip thus I think its a tad flatter in trajectory than a 50 cal. But lacking in weight lessens energy and that's where the 50 cal Rules over the 45. Additionally a 50 cal parts and shooting components are very accessible. Now to the truth of me.

I personally shoot a T/c Hawken in 45 cal. It's my preferred for deer hunting North of the Mason Dixon. Light weight and having near nothing in recoil and its a handsome looking rifle. (In no way inferring that a Traditions isn't)
I do shoot patched ball when hunting {only patch ball} as my rifle is equipped with a >Round Ball Only barrel so its rifling is lazier in twist to shoot Patch/ball very accurately.
Get the Traditions. You'll be pleased with its performance.

[LAGS]

The only complaint I have ever had with the TC is every time I see or Buy a used one, the stock has a crack in it on the left side, and sometimes all the way thru under the lock.
I picked up 3 used ones back in 2015.
They were all cracked, and any used stocks I looked at were cracked or actually cracked in two pieces.
I made up some Jugs to be able to repair the cracks on most of them.
And I have heard from others that TC's are known to crack the stocks.

[hylander]

The only complaint I have ever had with the TC is every time I see or Buy a used one, the stock has a crack in it on the left side, and sometimes all the way thru under the lock.
I picked up 3 used ones back in 2015.
They were all cracked, and any used stocks I looked at were cracked or actually cracked in two pieces.
I made up some Jugs to be able to repair the cracks on most of them.
And I have heard from others that TC's are known to crack the stocks.

Wow, Bummer.
This is the first I have ever heard of this and I have been shooting T/C Hawkens since the 80's.
My experience has been just the opposite.
I have owned about half a dozen and no flaws in the stocks at all.
Also I have handled a few dozen and never seen a crack before.

[megasupermagnum]

The only complaint I have ever had with the TC is every time I see or Buy a used one, the stock has a crack in it on the left side, and sometimes all the way thru under the lock.
I picked up 3 used ones back in 2015.
They were all cracked, and any used stocks I looked at were cracked or actually cracked in two pieces.
I made up some Jugs to be able to repair the cracks on most of them.
And I have heard from others that TC's are known to crack the stocks.

Is this from over tightening the lock screw? Both my new englander and renegade have no cracks in their stock, purchased used. I've put some real tough loads through them too, more the renegade than the NE.

[45workhorse]

Me too, no cracks on mine or any I have looked at. Just my two cents..

[LAGS]

The cracks in the stocks are repaired by adding an Aluminum sleeve for the lock screw to pass thru that is the full width from the lock to the back of the washer.
Then the screw can not be over tightened and cause the crack to reopen.
The crack is then glued, clamped and pinned
I have repaired several, and only one reopened, because the Bedding Epoxy I used did not bond to the wood.
This is a Renegade stock and there is a Brass pin in the hole for the sleeve for gluing so it doesn't have to be redrilled to insert the Aluminum Sleeve.

[Buzzard II]

You can glass bed the tang and the rear of the barrel or the whole barrel. Thompson Center was replacing cracked stocks before the stock manufacturing area burned. Shoot PRB and this should not happen. Heavy powder and heavy projectiles can cause problems. Try hard enough and you can break anything.

[Good Cheer]

When the barrel seats into the channel the tolerances can add up wrong. What can happen is that the breach end of the barrel cams into place against the wood and putting pressure against it. When that happens you have a situation where the wood is under tensile stress across the grain in the location where the greatest amount of wood has been removed. Then every shot you fire delivers a karate chop. Sometimes the wood wants to let go.

If you have a set of the old printed instructions from Green Mountain for their drop-in barrels you can read about fitting the hooked breach. Same thing with TC's.
http://i.imgur.com/FpQhfhL.jpg (https://imgur.com/FpQhfhL)

Proper fitting avoids the situation if it's caused by the barrel camming hard against the bottom of the barrel channel.

[LAGS]

I think the number of Used Rifles I have come across with Cracked Stocks is because the owners were selling them because of the cracked stocks.
( Which may in fact may be because of them overtightening the lock screw or Overloading the gun .
)
But , If I can get them at a better price, and can fix them, it is a plus for me.
And plenty of parts to build on another stock like I do.

[smithnframe]

I'd opt for the T/C.......definitely much better quality!

[Buzzard II]

When the barrel seats into the channel the tolerances can add up wrong. What can happen is that the breach end of the barrel cams into place against the wood and putting pressure against it. When that happens you have a situation where the wood is under tensile stress across the grain in the location where the greatest amount of wood has been removed. Then every shot you fire delivers a karate chop. Sometimes the wood wants to let go.

If you have a set of the old printed instructions from Green Mountain for their drop-in barrels you can read about fitting the hooked breach. Same thing with TC's.
http://i.imgur.com/FpQhfhL.jpg (https://imgur.com/FpQhfhL)

Proper fitting avoids the situation if it's caused by the barrel camming hard against the bottom of the barrel channel.

Very good info for all. Thank you!

[pietro]

.

IME:

* Cracked T/C stocks are due to overloads........

* There's no need to be concerned about repair parts for a T/C, as they are hell for stout, and everybody (online parts vendors) carries the parts.

.

[LAGS]

Never needed any repair parts for any of my TC's going back to the late 70's, except for this recent flurry of used rifles with cracked stocks.
But I have repaired them and am shooting them until I build them New more Fancy Stocks.
Maybe even the Renegade .61 cal in a Full length stock.
I do have a Traditions Hawken Kit that I will be putting together soon.
From a visual inspection, the TC's seem to be built a little stronger.
But Either will suite the needs of an occasional Shooter or Hunter.

[1Hawkeye]

If that t/c hawken has a good bore then 295 is a good deal. I'd rather have an old t/c than a new traditions any day and don't worry about spare parts there is plenty of sources for them. Heck in april I sold a late 70's t/c hawken in .50 cal in just good shape with a nice bore and the lgs gave me 250 for it and the guy who runs the reloading department snapped it up for 350 and he thought he got a deal.

[rfd]

IMHO, t/c's are simply worlds better than any spanish built traditions gun.

[wbwilly]

Hi Folks,
I ended up going with the Traditions. It's light and accurate and will serve my purpose well. Thanks for all the help.
Thanks,
Willy

[LAGS]

Please keep us posted on how you like the traditions.
Like I said , I will be putting one of their kits together in the near future.
Any info on things that you dislike about it might help me in my build.
Minor deficiencies can be corrected in the initial build.
Or if their are major dislikes , I have the option to sell the new kit and build something else.
Like the GPR kit I bought also.

[wbwilly]

Please keep us posted on how you like the traditions.
Like I said , I will be putting one of their kits together in the near future.
Any info on things that you dislike about it might help me in my build.
Minor deficiencies can be corrected in the initial build.
Or if their are major dislikes , I have the option to sell the new kit and build something else.
Like the GPR kit I bought also.I've put about 25 or 30 rounds through it, 490 ball, 015 patch and 60 gr of 2f Schuetzen, in the back yard shooting at a 6" target at 50 yds both from a bench and offhand and it is accurate enough for me as I continuously hit the paper. Most accurate when wiping after every shot. Adjustable sights work well. Fit and finish are fine for what it is.

The only issue I have is reassembling the lock to the wood. This is my first side loader and it seems to be sensitive tightening the screws, too tight and the hammer and trigger don't work right and when adjusted so that it works the screws are not tight by my definition. The trigger when set is very sensitive and I cant adjust that out but for my use I got used to it and fine with it. I never had a double set trigger so I don't have anything to compare it to.

First real use will be a primitive biathlon in early October.

[LAGS]

Thank you for your opinion on the Traditions.
It sounds like the Typical Minor issues found in almost all rifles on the market today.
With a little Tuning and fitting , those problems can be Fixed.
I have found the same issues with the TC rifles both in factory rifles as well as poorly assembled Kits that I have bought used in the past.