Carbine caliber choice for Iowa whitetail, 45 acp or 40 sw

[Brett Ross]

OK, let me explain a bit more. In Iowa we can use straight wall pistol caliber, as of a couple of years ago for what used to be shotgun only. Last year I purchased a CVA hunter in 45/70 and was able to harvest a small doe. I mostly just sit (about all I can do any more) but like to "still hunt" on the very slow trip back to my sitting spots. I find the single shot not a good choice for this task as the shots, if they come are very short but must be taken expediently. I do carry a .45 colt revolver but just not a good enough, to trust my-self with it. So I thought, a Hi point carbine in 45 ACP or 40 SW may work for the trip back, while backpacking the 45-70 in for the sit. I have all the brass, dies and molds for these two calibers or I would consider the 10mm (don't want to by a bunch of brass I will likely just lose). Now that I have explained my thought process you can make your suggestions or just "flame away" which ever you choose.
Thanks Tony

[megasupermagnum]

Since you have everything for both calibers, that's a tough call. Both are so close in performance as to be inconsequential. I personally go with the 45 acp, but that's mostly to do with thinking the 40 s&w is pointless when you can have a 10mm auto. I don't own a 10mm auto either. 45 acp will allow feeding of slightly wider noses if you were going to use solid cast bullets. I've been looking at a Hipoint 45 acp carbine myself.

[dangitgriff]

If you’re gonna buy a PC carbine, I would go with 10mm anyway over either the 40S&W or 45ACP. Just buy factory ammo for your hunting trips. It isn’t that big a hassle to start gathering reloading components for hand-loading the 10’s.
This model’s MSRP is $439:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190904/f853b69dc5be8329b72c62ed8a268a9b.jpg

[Finster101]

The Hi Point is a pretty stout strait blowback system. I would think some 255 gr SWC hollow points would stop most any whitetail that it hits. I'd go .45 acp.

[rking22]

From what you describe, I would worry more about the pointability and making an accurate quick shot than caliber. Either of those or the 10mm will work if placed well. Getting a quick shot placed well requires a gun that fits well and points like an upland shotgun. The sights have to come up lined up where you are looking. The only time I picked up a hi point rifle it did not meet any of those traits. I would much prefer to carry one gun, in my hands and ready to go. If that CVA isn’t over scoped it will point where you look and allow you to put a quick shot on target, and the first is the important one. Just my opinion, YMMV

[Finster101]

rking22 I am just the opposite with the Hi Point. With the factory ghost ring sights I find it fits quite well and very quick on target acquisition. While I'm not going for group size with it I find it honestly hard to miss with in a steel match. Fit is different for everyone but I like it.

[rking22]

That is so true, I find anything with a vertical grip to be very awkward. The closer it feels to a 20 gage M12 the better. Everyone’s background and personal experience comes into play.

[RU shooter]

I vote 45 acp what's not to like about making a bigger hole in that deer .

[JBinMN]

If I understand ya correctly & I was in the situation you explained, I would simply return to carrying a shotgun like ya did before, if you want to hunt in & out instead of using a single shot. Of course if you want to buy another firearm, that is great, but if you just are trying to fill a need for something with a bit more round capacity, then it seems to me that if ya already have the shotgun, why not just use that instead of a carbine?

Anyway, Interesting question & I am enjoying reading the replies so far.

G'Luck! & happy hunting regardless of what ya decide to do!
:)

[jcren]

Haven't got a deer with it yet, but have shot a few medium hogs with my 45 hipoint with a red dot sight and would not hesitate to use it for a woods or walking hunt. Have shot hogs with 200 and 255 rf and while they both passed through, the 255 moving at 950 is a serious thumper. One drawback to the hipoint is it is HEAVY for walking with.

[Brett Ross]

JBinmn, My 1100 I used deer hunting in the past came up missing several years ago while on hiatus from shot gun hunting, kids what can you do. I replaced it with a over under, for upland game hunting. For me a pistol grip is almost a must as I have lost rotation in my right wrist and have thumb hole stocks or grafted pistol grips on all my rifles/shot guns I shoot much (over and under looks a bit funny but works for me). At the moment i'm leaning tword the 45 as I have no 40, just a bunch of range brass I have pick along with dies and one mold. I do reload .40sw for my brother but have more mold choice's with the .45. I was thinking a Hi point ,,, well because its cheep and so am I, thus the CVA, which I like very much by the way. I really expected to get ripped a bit more but thanks for the positive suggestions. I will not take any shots over 50 yards and were I'm walking likely less than 30. Everything I read about the hi points are the are a fun plinker's, which is likely 99% of the rounds the carbine will see and yes it is something of a excuse to by a new gun.
Tony

[GhostHawk]

I have both the .40sw and the .45acp. Both are set up identically with Truglo 2x Red Dot sights, foregrips.

I would take the .45acp over the 40 every time. More accurate, especially past 50 yards. Bigger hole, good punch.
I have been running 230 gr truncated cone through mine and it seems to like it.

Unless your stand is giving you good shots over 150 yards distance, I'd leave the .45/70 at home.

I would get a sling and get it adjusted so it can both keep the weight of the gun out of your hands. AND be used to stabilise your self for a better shot. US Army worked out the system. Left arm through the sling, wrap once around the forearm and left hand tensions it against the gun. Locks you into a good solid 3 point support system. And I'd practice with that extensively.

In the end, all 3 would do the job. .40sw at the bottom, 10mm in the middle and .45acp on top IMO. Comes down to bigger bullet moving a bit slower but its like a freight train, its going to blow through whatever it hits. With a little practice I would not be afraid to try a 125 or 150 yard shot. Beyond that it is going to get tougher.

The other option would be something like .44mag or .45 colt in a lever gun. But it does cost about double what a Hipoint runs.

Whatever you choose, practice until you can put that slug in a pop can at 100 yards 9 out of 10 times offhand.

Good luck making a choice and good hunting!

[Texas by God]

Under 50 yards I'd go the shotgun route as well- a light one for carrying ease.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[DougGuy]

45 first choice. Load on the warm side, possibly to +P with Keith type LSWC or LSWC HP. This was my bowling pin load in a 1911 and it takes the pins off the table with PLENTY of authority. It would work very well on deer.

[Brett Ross]

When sitting I do have spots where 150-200 yd shots are common thus the 45-70. I feel confident up to 150 yds with the CVA off sticks but need a bit more load and shooter development beyond that. The walk in and my "walk about" between morning and evening sits are where the Hi-point would come in. I like to stay out most of the day with a couple hr beak for lunch (depending on temperature). Doug, I wish I was better with the revolver you worked on for me but Elmer Kieth I am not.

[M-Tecs]

With these you can do 45 Super or 460 Rowland. https://mechtechsys.com/CCUModels/1911/tabid/6682/Default.aspx For a basic upper the prices isn't bad if you have a handgun lower.

[DougGuy]

Doug, I wish I was better with the revolver you worked on for me but Elmer Kieth I am not.

Practice dry fire. When you can dry fire and hold the sights motionless as the hammer falls, that is all that is required to be proficient with a revolver fired single action. The gun will shoot to the front sight. If the front sight jumps when the hammer falls in dry fire, it will never group well in live fire despite how much is done to the gun. I recommend pull off one leg of the trigger return spring (if it is in fact a Ruger single action revolver) and if it still jumps around, swap in a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring, and you can try the same pull one leg off trick with the Wolff spring too, the idea is to lighten the trigger pull which I found helps a LOT in holding those sights perfectly still in dry fire. Memorize your grip and trigger pull and just do the same in live fire.

Also, I reduce the height of the pad on the hammer ala Bob Bradshaw so the trigger has very little creep before the gun fires. Getting rid of the creep or at least making it manageable does a LOT in holding those sights still in dry fire and shrinking groups appreciably in live fire.

[popper]

My 'woods' gun is XDm40S&W, 165gr TC, ~950 fps. Does a good job on hog @ 25 - yes you have to aim a bit. Recoil is decent, I could go to 200gr and ~900 fps, little harder to handle. I can even run snake shot cartridges in it. Deer aren't tougher than hogs. It doesn't weigh much either. 45 colt is no slouch but understand the dilemma. A 10mm frame with 40sw mags/barrel would work, then you could add the Mechtech carbine conversion (with 10mm mags,>1200 fps with WSF) for stand hunting - you are thinking a new gun anyway. Total would be ~1k$ though.

[white eagle]

tough call but me personally I would go big or go home
45 ACP
I am about to take in possession a 500 Linebaugh Encore barrel
for just such a situation

[dverna]

None of the above....if I had to use a straight wall cartridge in your situation I would get a .350 Legend. It would need to fit me for quick shots and it will do fine at the longer ranges. One gun to carry and it does it all.

Not what you asked for, but sometimes thinking out of the box gives a better answer. One of the inexpensive bolt will serve you well. Add a low powered fixed power scope or a low range variable (my choice). The low range variable can be dialed down for close shots and set higher when you get to your blind.

[DougGuy]

None of the above....if I had to use a straight wall cartridge in your situation I would get a .350 Legend. One gun to carry and it does it all.


Oohhh a .357 caliber in a short barreled AR would make for one lightweight, quick handling platform for thick woods, and then step right out to 150+yds if a longer shot came into view.

[popper]

Short barreled AR is SBR and tax money + other problems. Pistol AR in 350 legend would be a handful, loaded for 150 yd shots. 357 mag is slightly hotter than 10mm in pistol or carbine. OP was asking about more 'firepower' when backpacking in with a short gun for quick targets.

[JBinMN]

JBinmn, My 1100 I used deer hunting in the past came up missing several years ago while on hiatus from shot gun hunting, kids what can you do. I replaced it with a over under, for upland game hunting. For me a pistol grip is almost a must as I have lost rotation in my right wrist and have thumb hole stocks or grafted pistol grips on all my rifles/shot guns I shoot much (over and under looks a bit funny but works for me). At the moment i'm leaning tword the 45 as I have no 40, just a bunch of range brass I have pick along with dies and one mold. I do reload .40sw for my brother but have more mold choice's with the .45. I was thinking a Hi point ,,, well because its cheep and so am I, thus the CVA, which I like very much by the way. I really expected to get ripped a bit more but thanks for the positive suggestions. I will not take any shots over 50 yards and were I'm walking likely less than 30. Everything I read about the hi points are the are a fun plinker's, which is likely 99% of the rounds the carbine will see and yes it is something of a excuse to by a new gun.
Tony

Thanks Tony, for the direct reply.

Based on the info you provided in this recent post, unless I missed something, I understand what I have read here, & can only say what "I" would do in trying to accomplish the same goals as you described.

Personally, I would go with the .45 rather than the .40 if I was to use the choices ya offered in the OP.

If you would ask why, I would say that, for "me", and since I already have a .45ACp setup, with molds & dies, I would go that way.
You will have to decide what it is that you would like to do, regardless or others.

The reason I say that is that I have found it best in the past to "go with what I know, & have" rather than depend on the possible "whims" of others.

Many times I have had folks say, "Yeah, I'll do it." , or, "Yeah, count me in for that." & then when the time comes( push comes to shove), it is a different story line from them. Either they are no longer interests as much as they thought, don't have the time, or the $$, or any other such reasons they come up with to balk at the doings...

If you already have the 45ACp & the possibility of getting stuff for others & "re-tooling" to do so, then sure, if you can reasonably afford to do so(re-tool, etc.), & see such changes in your future, for your own benefits, then go for it.

But if you have even the slightest feeling that by "tooling up" for something you do not even know if it would be to your benefit, then I would stick with what you already have & know about.

Best wishes & and again, G'Luck!
.
Only YOU can make these decisions.

I hope that I helped maybe just a little bit, & the others here with their experiences in life, will help you as well!
:)

[dverna]

Short barreled AR is SBR and tax money + other problems. Pistol AR in 350 legend would be a handful, loaded for 150 yd shots. 357 mag is slightly hotter than 10mm in pistol or carbine. OP was asking about more 'firepower' when backpacking in with a short gun for quick targets.

Well...a HiPoint carbine is not very short or light and carrying in two rifles makes no sense to me.

I think carrying is a single rifle that does the job is what I would do...but I am old and lazy. Lugging 15+ pounds of metal does not appeal to me.

If rapid repeat shots are a requirement, a 16” AR in .350 will address that and still be good to 200 yards. No tax stamp issues either. I would still get a bolt action but that is me.

[beltfed]

If a person already has a 223 AR, there are 350 Legend 16" carbine gas system barrels out there already for
$80. Piece of cake to switch barrels or build an upper in 350 Legend. you do also need a 350 legend magazine or two
as the std 223 mags may not feed well.
beltfed/arnie

[Tracy]

I would and did choose the .45 ACP Hi Point. A 255 grain flat nose at 950 fps is a proven combination; like a .45 Colt revolver but in the guise of an autoloading carbine. And it will handle .45 Super, too.

[Shawlerbrook]

A Trapper length levergun in 357 or 44 mag. would be my first choice, but a 10mm out of your list.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Bottom line … Bigger holes are always better. I would be launching a .452 250 grainer flat nose at max accuracy / velocity. You want a complete pass through. you want a nice red trail that is easy to follow if need be.
I always ere on using enough rifle plus.
Mike in LLama Land

[Tripplebeards]

I bought a Ruger American 450 bushmaster fo the job. I also have a 77/44, Ruger 44 mag carbine, and savage 220 for backups.

[Bigslug]

What I know: .45ACP is an easy cartridge to run cast in, with a long history of being run in SMG's, SBR's, and carbines. You also have a .45 Colt revolver, so there may be some mold interchangeability in the .452" - .453" range.

What I don't know: It seems the .40S&W might suffer from some of the same cast bullet issues that plague folks when they start shooting cast in 9mm, notably, bullets getting squashed undersize when seating into a short case.

Why not a .45 Colt levergun?

[waksupi]

With your choices, I think you are limiting your range considerably, and not beating shotgun trajectory or velocity by much, if any. For close in shooting, one shot should do the deed regardless. Encumbering yourself with two guns would wear you out, and make it harder to get a gun into action.

[dverna]

With your choices, I think you are limiting your range considerably, and not beating shotgun trajectory or velocity by much, if any. For close in shooting, one shot should do the deed regardless. Encumbering yourself with two guns would wear you out, and make it harder to get a gun into action.

It looks like I am not alone in thinking carrying two guns is a less than stellar idea.

To the OP...before spending money on your carbine, take two guns with you into the woods before deer season and practice not just carrying them, but trying to get a quick shot off while doing so.

[richhodg66]

Personally, I can't see any realistic situation where one of the High Points would be better at deer killing than your .45-70.

[popper]

Don, I was just thinking a semiauto 10mm pistol, then backpack the 18" upper, switch in the stand.

[pmer]

OK, let me explain a bit more. In Iowa we can use straight wall pistol caliber, as of a couple of years ago for what used to be shotgun only. Last year I purchased a CVA hunter in 45/70 and was able to harvest a small doe. I mostly just sit (about all I can do any more) but like to "still hunt" on the very slow trip back to my sitting spots. I find the single shot not a good choice for this task as the shots, if they come are very short but must be taken expediently. I do carry a .45 colt revolver but just not a good enough, to trust my-self with it. So I thought, a Hi point carbine in 45 ACP or 40 SW may work for the trip back, while backpacking the 45-70 in for the sit. I have all the brass, dies and molds for these two calibers or I would consider the 10mm (don't want to by a bunch of brass I will likely just lose). Now that I have explained my thought process you can make your suggestions or just "flame away" which ever you choose.
Thanks Tony

Of course you know the time that monster buck will appear is when you have both hands full.:?

[DougGuy]

Short barreled AR is SBR and tax money + other problems. Pistol AR in 350 legend would be a handful, loaded for 150 yd shots. 357 mag is slightly hotter than 10mm in pistol or carbine. OP was asking about more 'firepower' when backpacking in with a short gun for quick targets.

I meant pistol length and should have clarified in my original post. I would never advise someone to create a SBR because of the bs you mentioned.

10.5" barreled AR in 45 Super or 460 Rowland would be the bees knees under 100yds. Over 100yds should rule out ANY pistol unless you can hold it to 3" groups at your hunting distance. I don't consider 6" groups acceptable for hunting deer at any distance.

150gr supersonic in my pistol length 300 BO is a handful I admit. 220gr sub is akin to a government model 1911 just in a larger format.

[dverna]

Don, I was just thinking a semiauto 10mm pistol, then backpack the 18" upper, switch in the stand.

Except the OP said he is not competent with a pistol...thus his desire for a carbine.

[Tripplebeards]

What ever carbine he picks, if it were me, I’d be researching the velocity gains. IMO the whole reason IA went to straight walled pistol so hunters could gain some advantage to longer shots. That’s why I bought a Ruger American 450 Bushmaster. The action is strong enough to handle 460 S&W loads(I tried it) as long as you loctite the scope rail down. Midway/bear creek makes complete 16” and 18” 450 bushmaster uppers that range from $209 to $229 so if you already have a lower your all set. The boolit is .003” smaller in diameter as your 45-70 so you’ll have retained energy at longer ranges vs the smaller calibers. Factory loads with 250 grain j words are 2250 FPS and hornady makes 225 and 220 grain j words to get you to 2500 FPS or more with Sami spec loads. I sit over some 250 yard spots so I don’t mess with cast when I’m out of state and spending four bills on a license looking for a once in a lifetime trophy. Just my opinion take it for what it’s worth.

[popper]

I do carry a .45 colt revolver but just not a good enough, to trust my-self with it. Not sure what his purpose for the revolver is.

[Brett Ross]

Popper, just to look cool or if one come's up and licks me in the face, might take that shot. All, thanks for your response's. I may just keep things as they are and carry the CVA 45/70 only. It's kind of silly to spend the money as I just give the meat to my hunting buddy, the wife will not eat it. Anymore, I hunt just to get out of the house and make winter feel, a bit shorter.
Tony

[popper]

I assumed 45 colt vs 45 acp. Nothing bad about a side arm in the woods . Found some 40 rat shot at academy today. I guess Ia lets you do that. You could load down the colt to be more manageable.

[Wayne Smith]

One thing to consider, if you are already loading for the 40S&W your dies work for the 10mm. Brass and possibly a different boolit would be your only expense. That's not a lot of expense for what you gain..

[freddy]

I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a 45acp or a 40 hunting for deer, unless it was just for a finishing shot or extremely close range. A 10mm or 45 LC+P with a decent bullet would be minimum for me. I have killed a few with a 454 casull and used a 450 bushmaster last year, It worked extremely well. A 44mag/357mag/45LC+p in a lever gun would be an awesome deer gun also.

[jcren]

A 45acp in a carbine closly approximates a standard 45 colt from a long barrel revolver. I have game cam footage of a 200rf cast from wheelweights moving at 950 or so (possum popper load, target of oppertunity) dropping a close to 200 pound hog from 70ish yards (first shot pass through and dropped, started thrashing and second shot pass through and you can see the dust kicked up in video) . Have killed several smaller pigs since with a 255rf at about the same speed.