Cabelas has tulas and mosins, what’s the difference?

[Tripplebeards]

The mosins were $299 and the laminate Tulas were $249 last I checked. They were mostly 1939’s. Don’t know much about them...can somebody fill me in. I like the looks of the cheaper laminate Tulas better. They also had a few K31’s and K11’s as well...which I liked even better. What’s the difference between these two $500 rifles?
Thanks for the education.

[Texas by God]

The Swiss rifles are Rolex, the Mosins are Timex. Cabela's is a price gouging palace.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Remiel]

The Swiss rifles are Rolex, the Mosins are Timex. Cabela's is a price gouging palace.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using TapatalkThat's almost poetic.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[ShooterAZ]

It’s not only poetic, it’s spot on.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'd sure have to go along with TbG's assessment of the rifles under discussion.

Tula is a very old Russian (Soviet, depending on the period of history) arsenal located in a town by that name, and established by Peter The Great in 1712. No, I wasn't there! So, during that time, they've made lots of different firearms of various designs, among them Mosin-Nagants of various models. Mosin was a Czarist army officer who suggested a few design changes to the 1891 model rifle as designed by Nagant, who was a Belgian. So the rifle design, as finalized, became know as the Mosin-Nagant. So basically what you're asking, and the answer, is that the two rifles are the same, Tula and Mosin, but the Tula is made at a specific arsenal and those categorized as "Mosin" could have been made at any of several other Russian arsenals which produced the same design rifle.

As for the Swiss K-31 and M-11, those numbers indicate the dates of adoption by the Swiss Army, 1911 and 1931. Both are straight-pull actions rather than the more conventional turn-bold designs (like the Mosin), and the significant difference between the two is that the action (receiver and bolt) of the 1931 is redesigned to be more compact (shorter) than the 1911. Either one is a fine rifle for target practice, and sporterized can make good hunting rifles. They are both known for fine accuracy.

I acquired both a M-1911 rifle and carbine back in the '70s, but eventually sold the rifle as being just too long and cumbersome. When it had it's immense saw toothed bayonet attached it was the longest rifle that I've ever owned, kind of harkening back to the Swiss Pike men of the 1500s and the Vatican Swiss Guard. If memory serves, I acquired them for about $100 each, but at that time the M-1931 was almost unseen in the U.S. because it was still issued to the Swiss reserves. I only ran across two of them during that time period and they were going for about $750. Eventually the Swiss let go of them, and for awhile they were selling here for around $250, but the price has climbed again. The Swiss take good care of their guns, and for the most part their surplus rifles are in Good - Excellent condition.

This is not necessarily true with the Russian guns, some of which saw very hard times in WW II. Many underwent a reconditioning process after the war, and it's something you should study into a bit before buying any Mosin-Nagant rifle for almost $300! A few years back they were selling for $65. To a collector, a nice one with all original parts may be worth $300, but many that were reconditioned have what are called "force fitted" parts with electric penciled serial numbers of the replacement parts to match that of the receiver. I really don't think that I'd buy a Mosin sight unseen unless just looking for a shooter, but might take a chance on one of the Swiss rifles.

[Geezer in NH]

A Tula and a Mosin are one in the same. Tula is an arsenal and made some with Single stick stock and some laminated wood

[smithnframe]

The Swiss rifles were never used in battle! Also, the K31's were never fired with corrosive ammo, unlike all of the Mosin Nagants!!!

[Tripplebeards]

I’ve been wanting a Swiss for a while now. How long ago were they selling for $250... not that it makes a difference now. The mosins must have been the rifles I saw at fleet farm back in 2001/2002 for under a $100 piled up. To me those mosins are still only worth a $100 as we speak. I wonder why there is a $50 difference between the two?

I’d take a Swiss for $250 if I could find one!lol , but I think I’ll pass on a Mosin until I can find one that someone doesn’t want for around the $100/$150 mark. I’ll probably never shoot it but would just put it away for collector status anyway. The Swiss, I’d shoot.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

The mosins were $299 and the laminate Tulas were $249 last I checked. They were mostly 1939’s. Don’t know much about them...can somebody fill me in. I like the looks of the cheaper laminate Tulas better. They also had a few K31’s and K11’s as well...which I liked even better. What’s the difference between these two $500 rifles?
Thanks for the education.

So they have them on Sale now they were going for 349 at the Cabelas in IL

[Tripplebeards]

So they have them on Sale now they were going for 349 at the Cabelas in IL

I’m sure they discounted them because they’ve been there ALL summer and never sold one of them. Hard to sell a $100 rifle for $350 imo.

[lefty o]

be careful of those cabelas mosins, in the last year or so, many have been found to be severely corroded under the wood. most reports are these were bottom of the barrel ones that honestly should have been scrapped. not saying they all are, but if you are going to over pay for one, best look it over with a fine toothed comb.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'd sure have to go along with TbG's assessment of the rifles under discussion.

Tula is a very old Russian (Soviet, depending on the period of history) arsenal located in a town by that name, and established by Peter The Great in 1712. No, I wasn't there! So, during that time, they've made lots of different firearms of various designs, among them Mosin-Nagants of various models. Mosin was a Czarist army officer who suggested a few design changes to the 1891 model rifle as designed by Nagant, who was a Belgian. So the rifle design, as finalized, became know as the Mosin-Nagant. So basically what you're asking, and the answer, is that the two rifles are the same, Tula and Mosin, but the Tula is made at a specific arsenal and those categorized as "Mosin" could have been made at any of several other Russian arsenals which produced the same design rifle.

As for the Swiss K-31 and M-11, those numbers indicate the dates of adoption by the Swiss Army, 1911 and 1931. Both are straight-pull actions rather than the more conventional turn-bold designs (like the Mosin), and the significant difference between the two is that the action (receiver and bolt) of the 1931 is redesigned to be more compact (shorter) than the 1911. Either one is a fine rifle for target practice, and sporterized can make good hunting rifles. They are both known for fine accuracy.

I acquired both a M-1911 rifle and carbine back in the '70s, but eventually sold the rifle as being just too long and cumbersome. When it had it's immense saw toothed bayonet attached it was the longest rifle that I've ever owned, kind of harkening back to the Swiss Pike men of the 1500s and the Vatican Swiss Guard. If memory serves, I acquired them for about $100 each, but at that time the M-1931 was almost unseen in the U.S. because it was still issued to the Swiss reserves. I only ran across two of them during that time period and they were going for about $750. Eventually the Swiss let go of them, and for awhile they were selling here for around $250, but the price has climbed again. The Swiss take good care of their guns, and for the most part their surplus rifles are in Good - Excellent condition.

This is not necessarily true with the Russian guns, some of which saw very hard times in WW II. Many underwent a reconditioning process after the war, and it's something you should study into a bit before buying any Mosin-Nagant rifle for almost $300! A few years back they were selling for $65. To a collector, a nice one with all original parts may be worth $300, but many that were reconditioned have what are called "force fitted" parts with electric penciled serial numbers of the replacement parts to match that of the receiver. I really don't think that I'd buy a Mosin sight unseen unless just looking for a shooter, but might take a chance on one of the Swiss rifles.

/\ Spot On /\

I'll second the statement concerning taking a chance on a Mosin - I don't think I would ever purchase a Mosin sight unseen. The Mosin-Nagant is a tough rifle and about as "Peasant Proof" as a rifle can be. However, those rifles saw hard use, poor or non-existent maintenance and corrosive ammunition. On top of that, they often were not stored well.
When Mosin's were selling for less than $100, you could pick through a rack of them and maybe......find one that was acceptable.
Not all Mosin-Nagant rifles are the same. They were distributed throughout the Soviet sphere of influence. Some had better rebuilds than others, some were cared for better, some were abused less than others. The Russians [or Soviets depending on time frame], made a LOT of Mosin-Nagant rifles. Not every rifle had the same life but most of them had horrible lives.

[dverna]

With Compass rifles under $250 when they have rebates going, it makes no sense to me to invest in a dubious piece of history. Mine is sub MOA, easy to scope and ugly. So it has one feature in common with the MN.

[Tripplebeards]

With Compass rifles under $250 when they have rebates going, it makes no sense to me to invest in a dubious piece of history. Mine is sub MOA, easy to scope and ugly. So it has one feature in common with the MN.

I’m not looking for a hunting rifle...I have to many of them.lol..can’t have too many imo. I’m looking for an original military rifle as an investment. It seems that every $89 rifle sold in the last 20 years has gone up 300 to 1000% in value. Yes a Compass will outshoot it but it will never increase in value like a military surplus gun. Look what the average $89 SKS is going for now. How about the $15 to $39 A3’s and Enfields? History always repeats itself with the increase in value on. Military surplus rifles. It seems the same on modern higher end low production rifles as well. I realize most people don’t buy guns to put away and not shoot...I have way to many modern guns I don’t shoot the way it is. It I’d like to buy some older military surplus rifles to collect. I realize I missed the boat decades ago but it seems every year all the military rifles that people always said topped out in value have been increasing every year. I believe the Swiss rifle will be my next toy/investment. I will guarantee what ever military rifle I buy right now...as long as I don’t get gouged on Gunbroker, or buy like when there was an AR scare, will in be worth more in a decade than what I paid for it. The issue is old military surplus rifles aren’t made any more (original, not conditioned, or reproduced) and as soon as they run out the average consumer had a melt down and the price jacks way up because they all of a sudden has to have one or life stops. The Mosin was massively overproduced so I don’t see it going up in value vary soon but retailers are trying to make it look that way right now because of their price hikes...that are coming down as we speak. Same with classic firearms on the beat up SKS’s they were trying to get $399 for this spring and are down to $319 because of all the bad reviews on them with zero bluing and huge cracks in their stocks. I’d you shop and barter you can buy an SKS is excellent condition for the same price after shipping and FFL costs. Condition plays a HUGE factor as well.

[Rich/WIS]

About 12-15 years ago K31's were at gun shows in my part of Wisconsin for about $200 with beech stocks. Rifles looked all but new and the big negative then was the lack of a reliable source of ammo for non-reloaders.

[Petrol & Powder]

Tripplebreads wrote:
"......I will guarantee what ever military rifle I buy right now...as long as I don’t get gouged on Gunbroker, or buy like when there was an AR scare, will in be worth more in a decade than what I paid for it. ...."


Yeah.......about 9/10's of the stocks sold daily in the New York Stock Exchange are sold under that premise and the people that sold those stocks are very happy they found buyers.

Will a crappy, mis-matched numbers, rusty, over priced, shot-out, corroded bore, Mosin-Nagant go up in value during your lifetime? Maybe....... but probably not enough to overcome inflation.
If you want to take a chance on it, have at it. Someone will be more than happy to take your money.

If you're buying it as an investment, you better buy it cheap and be ready to hold onto it for a LONG time.

[ShooterAZ]

I remember back in the relative time frame the OP mentioned, that Big 5 Sporting Goods had some Polish M44's. They looked brand new, and I bought one of them along with a case of corrosive heavy ball ammo. That thing kicked like a Mule, and bit like a Crocodile. I sent it down the road pronto. I wasn't casting back then, and now I sort of regret selling that one. Thanks to this site, I now know how to make a Mosin Nagant or even an M44 shoot very accurately without loosening my molars and dislocating my shoulder. Live and learn I suppose.

[salpal48]

When the Russians came in about 20 years ago or so, most were $49.00 . Most Moaned and Groaned then. There still Moaning.
Simple supply and Demand
Buyers regret

[Nick Adams]

* * *
* * *
If you want to take a chance on it, have at it. Someone will be more than happy to take your money.

If you're buying it as an investment, you better buy it cheap and be ready to hold onto it for a LONG time.

Wow! So those 5 or 6 USGI 'mixmaster' M1 Garands I paid $400 for back in the day are losing me money now? ... Uh-huh. :popcorn:

I see it as an *investment* that will gain a nice profit down the road (should I choose to sell them at some point), ... not to mention being an attempt on my part to preserve a critical implement of the military history of this country.

[Petrol & Powder]

What was the cost of those rifles in today's money?

And the value is determined by what they actually sell for, not what you think they might be worth.

Your statement "should I choose to sell them at some point" makes it clear that you haven't sold them yet. If and when you sell them, compare the sale price in contemporary funds to their cost, also in contemporary funds, and see if you came out ahead. Until that time, it's merely speculation.

I'm not disparaging the fact that you purchased M1 Garands as an investment and you're not losing money by storing those rifles but by the same token, you're not making money either. You don't make money until you sell them and you only make money then if the profit exceeds the inflation rate.

If you had purchased gold at $1500 / ounce in 1979 and sold it today for $1550/oz. you would Lose money. The cost of that gold in 1979 in TODAY'S money would be over three times as much in 1979. In order to make money on investments your profits must exceed the inflation rate.
Let's say you purchased a brand new Colt Python in 1979 and you paid $300 for it (I have no idea what a Python went for in 1979 so I'm just guessing here). That would be the equivalent of $1114 in today's money. It's likely you could sell that gun today for over $2000. That would net you a profit of $886 because the Python gained value faster than the inflation rate.

Now, say you purchased a Mosin-Nagant in 1979 for $75 (No idea if that was even possible, just making an example here). That $75 was the equivalent of $278 today. So unless you sold that Mosin-Nagant for more than $278 today, you would lose money on that investment. And that's before you count the cost of storage, which is never free. (real estate taxes, mortgage, electricity, insurance, maybe you had to move it a few times, etc. )

There's nothing wrong with buying something because you want it. But labeling something as an investment when you never intend to sell it, is not reporting that expenditure properly. It's only a Good Investment if you actually sell it at some point AND you make a real profit from that sale.

[26Charlie]

The 7.5 mm Swiss ammo is available now, from Graf & sons, but before that, I made it by running a .284 Winchester case into the sizing die. Didn’t even need trimming. Back in the day, I bought a 1911 rifle, 1911 carbine, and 1911 cadet rifle. The cadet is single-shot, has no magazine cutout in the bottom of the receiver, and curiously has a three-groove barrel. Later on, when the 1931s came in, I bought one, and then another a few years later from Aim Surplus, or one of the mail order outfits. The bores were pristine, the sights great (u-notch and post front) and all of them shoot cast bullets superbly for groups.
If you can get one you will be happy with it, with admiration for the finely machined and finished mechanism the Swiss turned out. Their straight pull actions work better than any others, IMHO.

[Bookworm]

Around here, a typical refurb MN. will go for about $200-250. That's a round receiver (post 1931) model. Tula arsenal models go for the higher end of that.

The "hex" receiver models (pre-1931) are mostly converted Dragoon rifles, and will command a bit higher price, maybe $250-300, especially if it has a decent bore.

IMO, if the Cabela rifles aren't nasty rusty carp sticks, which most of the current crop are, the price isn't out of line.

[Brett Ross]

All i can say is I'm glad I bought my Mosin for 90 bucks. The wife or kids might make a buck or two on my old military firearms when I kick the bucket but its kind of hard to call something I will never sell, an investment.

[Petrol & Powder]

All i can say is I'm glad I bought my Mosin for 90 bucks. The wife or kids might make a buck or two on my old military firearms when I kick the bucket but its kind of hard to call something I will never sell, an investment.

Would agree that something you're never going to sell is probably not an "investment".
Generally speaking an investment is something purchased and resold [hopefully] for a profit.


The exception might be something that eventually makes more money than it cost to purchase, maintain and operate.