Bulged Barrel In A 1911

[alamogunr]

It is not my natural tendency to push the envelope but today I guess I had a brain fart. I was checking out some .45ACP loads. Most had 4.9+or- .1 gr of a surplus powder that I had determined previously was very close to Bullseye in burn rate. When I originally tested this powder, I used the .45ACP cylinder in my Freedom Arms. The first loads were way heavy. They chrono'd from 1250 to over 1300 fps. After enquiring on line and with the seller, I backed off to the above load.

These loads tested around 800 fps.

The brain fart showed itself when I loaded one of the overloads in my Kimber 1911. The above loads were with a
H&G 68 from WW. The overload was a 230 gr full metal jacket. I guess I just had to know how the recoil felt in the 1911. First indication that anything was wrong was when the slide stayed back. No pushing with my hand could move it. When I got home, I used a nylon hammer to tap the slide and it closed. After field stripping and removing the barrel, I could feel the bulge as well as "see" it in the bore. It is approx. 2" from the muzzle or 3" from the rear of the chamber.

I know there was no obstruction because I only loaded one round after the last shot across the chronograph. That shot registered on the screen. I guess the only thing I proved was that I'm stupid and an obstruction is not required to bulge a barrel. The only thing I can come up with is that this powder has some characteristic that did not agree with my 1911.

First question: Anyone have any further thoughts or ideas?

Second question: Are 1911 barrels drop-in or is a gunsmith recommended?

All comments will be appreciated. Don't try to spare my feelings. They are pretty bruised right now anyway.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Unknown to me what happened, but since the bullet, brass, and primer were a known quantity, the powder/charge may be suspect. Factory spec 1911 barrels are drop in. Kimber is made to tighter specs than a standard G.I. 1911, and a Kimber is a semi-custom pistol, so fitting an original Kimber barrel might require some minor work, but an original spec barrel should drop in. If finances are a problem, you may be able to roll the bulge out of the barrel.

DG

[tja6435]

I’d send it back to Kimber to have them fit a new barrel and inspect it for other possible damage.

Glad you’re ok

[smithnframe]

How did you determine the burn rate of this unknown powder was "close" to Bullseye? Not close enough obviously! I don't use unknown powders!

[alamogunr]

How did you determine the burn rate of this unknown powder was "close" to Bullseye? Not close enough obviously! I don't use unknown powders!

I knowingly put a shell in the gun that was an overcharge. That was the brain fatt. My records indicate that the charge was 7.2 grains of a surplus powder labeled AA105. It was supposed to be very similar to AA#5. When I first realized that I had a problem, I called the seller, who has a good reputation here. He said some others had inquired about the powder also. It was determined that the powder was very near to Bullseye. All this was discussed here on this board a couple of years ago. My loads using Bullseye data produced velocities of just under 800 fps to just over 850 fps. The velocities fairly well matched the different powder charges indicated in the manuals.

I may contact Kimber and ask about a new barrel. I've had this pistol since 2000. The actual model is no longer in the Kimber line. Finances are not a problem. A new barrel is way cheaper than other possible outcomes.

Just in case someone is interested, the normal barrel diameter is .5763" by actual measurement. The bulge, as near as I can measure over it, is .5881". It is enough to feel with your fingers. I'm not inclined to try to roll out the bulge.

BTW, the offending load registered less than I got when I shot them the first time thru the Freedom Arms. That is all I remember and I didn't record the reading.

[alamogunr]

I guess I should add that when I cleaned up the guns, which had less than 10 shots each, they were very dirty. I think with the other problems, this powder is destined for the shrubbery beds.

[country gent]

There are both drop in and barrels requiring fitting. Also standard and ramped barrels. I would bet a Kimber replacement barrel might drop in fine but might require a little fitting and possibly a different link. A fitted barrel will require mire fitting on the hood lug and attention to locking lugs mating. Contact Kimber and see what they say. You might consider a fitted barrel bushing and trigger job tne the pistol up some while replacing your oops

[Petrol & Powder]

If there was enough pressure to bulge the barrel I would suspect other damage as well. I would examine that pistol carefully. I would pay particular attention to the locking lug recesses cut in the slide and the frame just forward of the slide stop.
As for a barrel, If you've had that gun since 2000, I would consider having a gunsmith fit an oversized barrel. A drop-in barrel may work but I think you'll get better results from a barrel that fits a little closer.

[Sig556r]

There was a span of time when Kimber had not-quite-par QA/QC, maybe you got a short-life one. Good to know you're ok & the barrel didn't split.
It is really uncommon for a barrel to bulge at mid-rifling without any obstruction, most damage for hotloads are back pressure issues.
Send it to Kimber for a thorough inspection since you're incline on getting their OEM barrel replacement anyways.

[waksupi]

I would probably send it to Kimber, too. I can't think of any incident I have ever heard of bulging a barrel like that without some sort of obstruction. Did you visually look through the barrel before loading? Lost cleaning patch, mud dauber nest?

[OS OK]

"Don't worry little Sweetheart...I'd never abuse you like that...heheee...I'd never stuff you with more than you can handle!"

https://i.imgur.com/5xTbR5l.jpg . . . :bigsmyl2:

[Char-Gar]

"I know there was no obstruction because I only loaded one round after the last shot across the chronograph. That shot registered on the screen. I guess the only thing I proved was that I'm stupid and an obstruction is not required to bulge a barrel. The only thing I can come up with is that this powder has some characteristic that did not agree with my 1911."

You are not stupid, just had to learn by peeing on the electric fence. I have not bulged a 1911 barrel, but have done other things that proved to be "teaching moments". Most 1911 pistols will do a simple drop in barrel change. Don't know about Kimbers.

[alamogunr]

I would probably send it to Kimber, too. I can't think of any incident I have ever heard of bulging a barrel like that without some sort of obstruction. Did you visually look through the barrel before loading? Lost cleaning patch, mud dauber nest?

I just re-read my original post and the "no obstruction" statement needs clarification. I had just fired the last round in the magazine and the slide locked back. The boolit registered on the chronograph so it could not be in the barrel. I then ejected the mag and loaded one round, the one that did the damage. But no, I did not "visually look through the barrel before loading?".

BTW, I'm leaving now to go to FedEx to send the gun to Kimber for evaluation and repair. The customer service person I talked to was very informative but didn't pull any punches about cost. This goof will cost north of $200 incl. shipping if not more if there is additional damage that is not apparent.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think that is a wise course of action.

[wv109323]

My experience with 1911s is related to 40 years of Bullseye competition. The weak point of the 191 is the brass case. The case will rupture and the gases will escape down the magazine area. Usually the magazine and the wooden grips are damaged. Swelled barrels are associated with obstructions.
Also Bullseye powder is among the fastest. I think there is only one commercial powder that is faster. I doubt that a round loaded within Bullaeye specs would hurt a pistol.
It was wise to send the pistol back to Kimber for a complete evaluation. There are several dimensions on a 1911 barrel that pertains to an accurate pistol. A drop in barrel has all these dimensions held to minimums so the barrel will fit all pistols. So a drop in barrel is the sloppiest fit possible.

[alamogunr]

Thanks for the insight, wv109323. In this case, despite the high pressure, the case did not rupture. Actually, the felt recoil was not excessive. I'm not going to try to continue to analyze the situation too much further, at least not until I get some feedback from Kimber.

For my level of shooting skill a drop in barrel would probably suffice but my OCD tendencies overrule going the easy way.

I will post whatever Kimber's exam finds when their gunsmiths look the pistol over.

[skeettx]

Interested !!

[Burnt Fingers]

I've never seen a barrel bulge without having an obstruction. Especially when that bulge is near the muzzle.

You can get a "drop in" 1911 barrel but don't be surprised if your accuracy goes to crap.

I bulged a 1911 barrel a few years back. I was practicing my draw and double tap. I had a malfunction and without thinking did the tap, rack, bang.

My malfunction was my first ever squib in over 40 years of reloading. I bulged the barrel right where the locking lugs end.

It cost me almost $300 to correct that error. $180 for an Ed Brown match barrel and bushing and $100 to have it fit.

The 1911 was my favorite carry 1911, a S&W PD scandium framed commander.

It was a very accurate gun before the brain fart. The gunsmith did an excellent job of fitting the barrel. It's even more accurate now.

[35remington]

I agree. I can see no way a barrel will bulge without an obstruction in it. If the case did not blow out, and even likely if it did, the cause of the bulge is not apparent given the description of the event.

[MT Gianni]

Wow, almost 10 years ago I bulged a Kimber bbl and I believed there was no obstruction as there was a hole in the target from the previous bullet. I believed that something happened as there was no other evidence than an obstruction. I was shooting Unique, a double charge should have been evident. I sent it back to Kimber who sent me a rebuild gun with a bulged bbl. I have never heard of another and am not saying Kimber may have had some faulty bbls but that is interesting.
FYI, an aftermarket bbl would be 50 % less than what Kimber charged me but they did go over the gun. I still have no evidence that there was an obstruction other than no evidence that there wasn't. I do not load on a progressive.

[nelsonted1]

I was firing my trooper/python with very light loads. One stuck in the barrel. It was snowing pretty good so didn't see the holes not appearing in the target. I fired five more one on top of the other. All lined up like good.little soldiers. Luckily I was.shooting very light loads and the pistol has a very heavy barrel. My nephew removed the barrel and pressed the bullets out. The barrel has a slight mark from the barrel removal but has had no loss of accuracy at all. The scary part was they were jacketed. The second scary part was I was wearing gloves and felt no increased recoil at all. Still scared the crap out of me as close as I got to a ruined jewel of a gun. Stuff happens.

[alamogunr]

Thank you for posting that, MT Gianni. I bought this Kimber in 2000. This is the first problem I have had with it. I can't blame the Kimber barrel since I knew the load was over the top. BUT, like you, I am convinced that there was no obstruction. I've already stated why I believe that. I am also convinced that there will be more posts that will, at least hint, that there had to be an obstruction.

BTW, Tracking showed that the gun was delivered to Kimber this afternoon. I've already been warned that it could take 2-4 wks for them to inspect.

[Geezer in NH]

10 years ago I had a Norinco 45 1911 brought into my shop with a bulged barrel and the grips blown out. The magazine also had the bottom, follower and spring missing.

The owner had shot some American surplus ammo, Winchester in fact. He got it from his friend and Mentors estate of a passed Air force Col. I knew both personally and fixed the gun with a new barrel. However I was given the .50 caliber can full of the .45 acp Vietnam era ammo given to me with the blown gun.

All the ammo was what he had been shooting. It looked great and as I knew the deceased shot for the AF pistol and rifle teams and has sold his target rifle made in the teams armory. I did not suspect the ammo.

After replacing the barrel and grips and bent firing pin I fired the weapon with the ammo on the 4th shot BABOOM!!!! Wow surprise!!!!!!!!

I Then stopped and thought ***. Checking the ammo it was the Winchester surplus. Went back to the shop had a cup of coffee and then took the ammo box by box fro serious inspection.

It looked good until my then 15 year old son sated why is there 2-3 rounds in each box have a commercial primer instead of the Military crimped. Every box left in the can was the same.

Pulling the bullets on 3 of the commercial primed cases yielded what looked like 231 Winchester ball powder. 19-20 grains!!

The Col. was in intelligence service and appeared he went over the edge with paranoia with the ammo storage making it safe for him to use but not for thieves.

Makes me check every single round of used ammo I come into possession of. As for the Norinco 1911 I again replaced the barrel and grips, bushing and did a trigger clean up. The owner gave it to me for finding the problem. [He did not trust it] I gave it to my then 17 year old son. He is now 32 and still shoots it 5000+ shots later and it still is going strong.

[Drm50]

I've only send one 1911 with a bulged barrel. The cause was a bullet shedding its core leaving jacket in barrel. The core provided a visable strike. The next round bulged the barrel. I guess it is possible but I have never seen a bulge in any barrel that wasn't a result of obstruction. A major problem with over load or cartridge problem would occurs in chamber area. I sold the 1911 and two 357 revolvers that I was stuck in middle with. The owners always insist the gun failed. The manufactures ruled faulty handloads on all three and refused responsibilty.

[alamogunr]

I give up!!

I have never said that I wasn't responsible and never asked Kimber to take responsibiltiy. I still hold that there was no obstruction despite the fact than only one poster(Mt Gianni, post #20) in this thread has also had a bulged barrel that did not involve an obstruction.

[Valley-Shooter]

You might read this thread for info on your powder. It's like AA#5.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?187337-Need-Some-Help!

[Char-Gar]

I give up!!

I have never said that I wasn't responsible and never asked Kimber to take responsibiltiy. I still hold that there was no obstruction despite the fact than only one poster(Mt Gianni, post #20) in this thread has also had a bulged barrel that did not involve an obstruction.

It doesn't take an obstruction to trash a barrel, an over pressure load will do the job also.

[alamogunr]

It doesn't take an obstruction to trash a barrel, an over pressure load will do the job also.

I know that. My response was to those who have and will continue to post that they have never heard of a bulged barrel without an obstruction. I apologize if I am taking it wrong that they disbelieve when I say there was no obstruction.

I received a confirmation from FedEx that the package was delivered to Kimber on Thursday afternoon. I am hoping they will acknowledge receipt tomorrow. Customer service has already indicated that it will take 2-4 wks for inspection and repair.

[DougGuy]

Prolly did the right thing sending it back to Kimber. Although many would chuck another barrel in there and keep on trucking...

[Char-Gar]

I know that. My response was to those who have and will continue to post that they have never heard of a bulged barrel without an obstruction. I apologize if I am taking it wrong that they disbelieve when I say there was no obstruction.

I received a confirmation from FedEx that the package was delivered to Kimber on Thursday afternoon. I am hoping they will acknowledge receipt tomorrow. Customer service has already indicated that it will take 2-4 wks for inspection and repair.

I don't think others did not believe you. On this board, folks just skim read a post and jump in with both feet and seldom do their responses reflect an understanding of the original post. It can be very frustrating and that is why I don't read the pages of posts that take the original topic off on a tanget. When I reply, I just reply to the original post.

[Burnt Fingers]

It doesn't take an obstruction to trash a barrel, an over pressure load will do the job also.

A over pressure load doesn't bulge the barrel near the muzzle.

[alamogunr]

Just a heads up for anyone that may be contemplating sending a gun to Kimber for repair. When I was notified that the gun had been examined by a gunsmith to determine needed repairs, I was told that the repair totalled $xxx.45, and they needed my credit card number. They told me that the credit card would not be charged until the gun was ready for shipment. I gave them the credit card number and sat back to wait.

I track all transactions on my credit cards and periodically check to make sure that there are no extra charges unknown to me. I noticed that Kimber had charged my card on the same day I gave them the number. I called Kimber because I was concerned that someone would repeat the charge at time of shipment. The customer service person that answered explained that they make a charge immediately to be sure that the customer can pay for the repair. If satisfied, the charge is then rescinded.

I can see their reasoning and have no problem. I also verified that the charge had been removed. First time for anything like this.

[alamogunr]

I guess that charge is going back on the card. I just got notification from UPS that a shipping label was created for a 2nd Day Air shipment. I wasn't expecting it so soon after being told it could be 2-4 weeks. I guess they had rather surprise than disappoint customers.

[Hahndorf1874]

I once bulged a barrel in a Mod 52 S& W wadcutter Auto, we believe the tail of a wadcutter stayed in the barrel as I had the correct number of shots on target, would you believe the bulged barrel shot equal groups to the new factory barrel I fitted!!

Cheers Mal in au.