What should i expect...

[Magnum Mike]

...to pay for a used Marlin 30-30?

...the performance of cast to be in a 30-30?

...to be a good boolit in a 30-30?

...etc... (in other words, anything else ya wanna add?? :D )

[beagle]

Mike, here in KY, they're about $125-150 this time of year and most gun shops have enough to fence a Texas goat farm. Right before hunting season, they're hard to find.

Cast shoots good in them at velocities around 1800 FPS and you can surge to 2,000 FPS at hunting season.

For a bullet, I like the 30-150-FN RCBS and also the 30-180-FN RCBS although it runs right at 190 grains.

Most of the Marlins have the micro groove rifling but it shoots all right if the bullet is gas checked, big in diameter(.310-311) and either water quenched or heat treated.

I had a couple. I converted one to .32-40 and one to .25/35 by re barreling. Right now, I'm shooting a Winchester M94 Legacy in .30/30.

The .30/30's a good cast cartridge. Plenty of brass and plenty of good bullet designs available.

The Marlin has an advantage over the Winchester as it's easier to remove the bolt for cleaning. But, with the regular rifling in the Winchester, you have the advantage over the Marlin's micro groove rifling in that it shoots better groups a lot easier than trying to get the micro groove to shoot well./beagle

[Buckshot]

.............I prefer Marlins over Winchesters for a couple reasons, but don't care to deal with the MG rifling. This means a real new one or an older one. If you can find an older one that's been around the block a time or two (rather disreputable looking but still sound) I'd expect to pay about $175 for it, private sale.

You can do anything with cast in a 30-30 that you can with jacketed. I had a really nice old 1893 for several years and with the 170gr Lee it shot a bit over 2000 fps with 100 yd groups of an honest 4" with the issue sights. Most any 30 caliber bullet will do pretty well in the 30-30 (it's a 30 cal 10" twist), but if you intend to load a tube magazine you're looking for a FN design is all.

Off the subject but it just got me to thinking that it's really too bad there aren't any inexpensive 30-40's around (maybe NEF?). All the 30-40 is is a 30-30 on steroids. Substitute a 210gr slug for the 170 and there you have it.

..................Buckshot

[JDL]

I'd say $150 to $200 should get you a good rifle. I have both Marlin and Winchester and can't say either is my favorite, like 'em both.
The Marlin is scoped and has micro-groove rifling but, the groove diameter on mine runs .307" and I haven't had any problems with cast in it. It shoots the Lyman 31141,311407,and RCBS 180 FN very well and about equally. I have pretty much settled on the RCBS (187grains) for hunting with it.
The '94 Winchester seems to prefer Lyman 311466, which I use a FN "G" punch when lubing and put about .18" flat on the nose. Naturally, it doesn't wear a scope but, an older Lyman 66 receiver sight and sourdough front, and on days when my old eyes are seeing good, it'll keep them all in the black at 100 yards.-JDL

[azrednek]

Let me add my two-cents. I haven't shot any of my own cast in my Marlin 30/30. I did put a hundred of gunshow bought, moly coated, no lube in grooves, 175gr round nose cast flat base, sized to .309 and they shot as good as any jacketed slugs I've shot through it. With my 53 year old 4-eyes and iron sights I was more than satisfied with the results at 100 yards. No barrel leading and the bore cleaned up easily. I can't remember the exact load. The load was from an older and more generous Speer manual using IMR 3031. I've never seen the vendor again at a gunshow but if I did I'd likely spring for a thousand or more. Best I recall the price was considerably less than half the cost of jacketed slugs.

I've heard all the horror stories concerning cast slugs in Marlin's Micro-groove but can't recall ever hearing it directly from the horse's mouth. Always a friend, a friend of a friend, "something I've heard or read" etc. You wont really know untill you try it for yourself. I do have a friend that does shoot cast in his Marlin and he claims the harder the mix the better. I don't recall if he was shooting flat base or gas checked. When I asked him about poor accuracy with cast slugs in the Micro-Groove he said and I'll para-phraise to keep it clean "that's alot off forking Winchester bull manure". He also said something to effect "Marlin rules Winchesters are toys'. This is from a guy that has a bumper sticker that says "I would rather eat "(manure) than drive a Jap truck".

[StarMetal]

Azredneck

Well I hate to tell your friend that he is driving a a Jap truck, German, Italian, China, and everything else too because no American vehicle is 100 % American made. I can't understand that if so many Americans still hate foreign made products today, then why didn't they mass and stop the U. S. in rebuilding the countries that we beat and destroyed in WWII?

As for Winchester versus Marlin...well that's the on going battle like Ford versus Chevy. I own both Marlins and Winchesters. They are both great rifles. In my opinion Winchesters are lighter, sleeker, and thinner, especially the model 92. I went shooting with my buddy one day and we were shooting 357 revolvers and rifle and 45 LC revolvers. The rifle was a Marlin with micro-groove. The load that was cast was the RCBS 150 gr SWC over 6 grs of Unique. Out of a Model 19 Smith with 4 inch barrel it was a tack driver. Out of the Marlin neither he or I could his a paperplate at 25 yards. Yes I know that was only one load, one type of cast, out of one type of alloy, but you're hearing it from the horse's mouth. There is some truth about the micro groove (notice I didn't say to not shooting). They can be made to shoot but not as easily as conventional rifling. Further more if there wasn't some truth to it why did Marlin themselves make their cowboy lever actions with Ballard style rifling?

Joe

[slughammer]

Further more if there wasn't some truth to it why did Marlin themselves make their cowboy lever actions with Ballard style rifling?

Joe

Far easier to change your type of rifleing and sell guns than to educate the masses.

[carpetman]

AZredneck---You would take as gospel something a guy that would rather eat manure than drive a jap truck? Just wondering,you ever have lunch with this guy?

[Scrounger]

Azredneck

Well I hate to tell your friend that he is driving a a Jap truck, German, Italian, China, and everything else too because no American vehicle is 100 % American made. I can't understand that if so many Americans still hate foreign made products today, then why didn't they mass and stop the U. S. in rebuilding the countries that we beat and destroyed in WWII?

As for Winchester versus Marlin...well that's the on going battle like Ford versus Chevy. I own both Marlins and Winchesters. They are both great rifles. In my opinion Winchesters are lighter, sleeker, and thinner, especially the model 92. I went shooting with my buddy one day and we were shooting 357 revolvers and rifle and 45 LC revolvers. The rifle was a Marlin with micro-groove. The load that was cast was the RCBS 150 gr SWC over 6 grs of Unique. Out of a Model 19 Smith with 4 inch barrel it was a tack driver. Out of the Marlin neither he or I could his a paperplate at 25 yards. Yes I know that was only one load, one type of cast, out of one type of alloy, but you're hearing it from the horse's ---. There is some truth about the micro groove (notice I didn't say to not shooting). They can be made to shoot but not as easily as conventional rifling. Further more if there wasn't some truth to it why did Marlin themselves make their cowboy lever actions with Ballard style rifling?

Joe
then why didn't they mass and stop the U. S. in rebuilding the countries that we beat and destroyed in WWII?

Then why is it OK for Boy George to waste American money, and more importantly, American lives to rebuild that cesspool known as Iraq, just so another piss-ant terrorist can take it over as soon as we leave? Remember Panama? Remember the Phillipines? Afganistan? Remember Viet Nam? Remember all the peace keeping missions to Africa countries we don't even remember the names of? Well, where's all the peace???

[azrednek]

AZredneck---You would take as gospel something a guy that would rather eat manure than drive a jap truck? Just wondering,you ever have lunch with this guy?
Sorry I didn’t mean to turn this thread into a Coke vs Pepsi and political thread. I was merely quoting what I’ve heard from a very opinionated guy I’ve hunted with a few times that claims he can shoot cast slugs in his Marlin 30/30. As a matter of fact we have shared a few meals around a campfire but when conversing with this guy you will never win an argument and when it comes to politics he becomes angry real quick and those that know him avoid the subject. I wouldn’t take what he says as absolute gospel truth but if he says he can shoot cast slugs in his Marlin I believe him. I can only speculate as how long or how many before he found the so-called magic bullet. He did bag a Javalina on the hunt with a Marlin 30/30 shooting a cast slug. Before I would rely on what I've heard, read or see typed on the internet, if I were serious about shooting cast in the micro-groove barrel, I would have to try it myself.

[gregg]

My oldest boy just bought a new (secound hand) Marlin MG 336. We are going
to start working with it. It has a .309 bore. BUT My 36 has a .310 bore and
my 336 made in 1951 clean gun has a .308 on one side and a .309 on the
other side. So as in reading the above post I would guess that there not
that much diffence in the rifles. Each a law into itself. BUY WHAT MELTS
YOUR BUTTER AND HAVE FUN.

[Griff]

To summarize the responses:
To Pay: $150-200
Cast Performance: Lousy to as good as it gets.
Good Bullet: RCBS 30-150-FN.
Etc: It seems as though all the responders at least agree on the price range. I have both Marlins & Winchesters. Momma sez "too many" :wink: , and find that the Winchesters are EASIER to load for. From the horses mouth: "The Marlin with MG rifling was so finicky that I finally gave it to my Dad and few hunderd J__d rounds to keep at his place." Can't say it wouldn't shoot great if I'd found the right load, but at my place, "if it won't spit what I feed it to my satifaction, there's plenty more fish in this ocean!"
An old 336 w/scope mounted I have, rides in the p/u and'll eat and spit out anything I feed it accurately. My post '64 Win saddle gun will do the same. It's kept loaded near the door to beat back any unwanted guests. Mainly coyotes that get too close to the house. Yep, feed 'em both a steady diet of both cast and j__ed rounds.
The Ford vs. Chevy analogy is very appropriate.
Ya pays yer nickel and takes yer chances!

[felix]

Just get a Winnie 32-30, a 32 Special, and be done with it. That gun is made for cast, and shoots anything you can find laying in the street. Pay a 100 more for it (in good condition) because it will cost you that much to rebarrel a 30-30 to 32-30. That 32 barrel made for that gun will have a 16 twist, and that is what really makes that gun shine.


If I ever get around to it, I will rebarrel a 8mm mauser, having a circa 10 twist, with a 16 twist. Objective would be to have powder space to make 2400 fps with the rcbs 170 grainer, THE boolit for this twist. ... felix

[Four Fingers of Death]

Just get a Winnie 32-30, a 32 Special, and be done with it. That gun is made for cast, and shoots anything you can find laying in the street. Pay a 100 more for it (in good condition) because it will cost you that much to rebarrel a 30-30 to 32-30. That 32 barrel made for that gun will have a 16 twist, and that is what really makes that gun shine.


If I ever get around to it, I will rebarrel a 8mm mauser, having a circa 10 twist, with a 16 twist. Objective would be to have powder space to make 2400 fps with the rcbs 170 grainer, THE boolit for this twist. ... felix


I have six levers at the moment and am having trouble justifying more, but I always fancied a 35 Remington (and a 32) shooting lead boolits. I think I'd build the 32 on a Win 94 action and the 35 Rem on a Marlin action. Like I've got a 94s in 30/30 and 375 Big Bore and a Marlin in 45/70 and I'm flat out getting out to hunt, so I really need to fill that gap (yeah right!).

The 32 is basically a 30/30 necked up isn't it, I haven't seen one foy yonks and I can't remember.

More modern cartridges will run rings around these old clunkers, but they have a bit of romance about them, that's for sure.

Mick.

PS There's a lot of deer out here with my name on them, gotta get out in the bush more often.

[Scrounger]

I have six levers at the moment and am having trouble justifying more, but I always fancied a 35 Remington (and a 32) shooting lead boolits. I think I'd build the 32 on a Win 94 action and the 35 Rem on a Marlin action. Like I've got a 94s in 30/30 and 375 Big Bore and a Marlin in 45/70 and I'm flat out getting out to hunt, so I really need to fill that gap (yeah right!).

The 32 is basically a 30/30 necked up isn't it, I haven't seen one foy yonks and I can't remember.

More modern cartridges will run rings around these old clunkers, but they have a bit of romance about them, that's for sure.

Mick.

PS There's a lot of deer out here with my name on them, gotta get out in the bush more often.

Well I heard there were a lot of sheep in Texas named 'Ray' but I never heard of a deer named 'Mick'...

[StarMetal]

Art

Yup, that's basically what the 32 Special is a 30-30 necked up or hey, could be a that 30-30 is a 32 necked down. In any case you can use the 30-30 brass to turn it into 32 special.

Joe

[billw]

The only successful way to shoot cast in these bbls is to use hard alloy or heat treat and quench the alloy--WW or mixed with soft lead. Soft alloy will shoot but only at low vel, 1200 MV or about. Even then it will lead the bore. I have tried .308 thru .310 sizing and seems to be the least bother with .308. Many of these bbls are copper fouled and this fouling must be cleaned out. My 336 had eroded lands, all 12 of them, but it finally started shooting with the hard cast bullets. Pull the bolt out of the action to clean the bore. I have used a stainless bore brush and a tornado spiral "brush" in an effort to really get the bore clean, now clean with a wet patch of Ed's Red or whatever you like, and a dry patch before shooting. Be sure to replace the ejector and don't crossthread the lever screw, and no, I didn't do that, not me! I like the RCBS 180 FN, 31141(041), Lee 150FN and the 314299 tapered and sized to fit the tight throat. Now, how nice would it be to have an '03 2-groove machined to fit one of these Marlins?

[Maven]

All, While I haven't a clue about the price of a new or used Marlin #336, I do know that mine will shoot CB's very well through a microgrooved bbl. at something other than low velocity. The biggest problems may be choice of CB design & diameter and what lube you use. So far, my best CB has proved to be Ly. #311466 @ .310" with Saeco #315 @ either .310" or .311" running a close second. If you're feeling lucky or just curious, and own Ly. #311284, you may want to try it as well as the results may surprise and please you. Btw, I all but gave up heat-treatment of my alloy (WW + 1% Sn) when we got a new gas range wi. a supposedly solid state thermostat (very erratic and it's been recalibrated!) and haven't had a leading problem at all. I've said this before on the Shooters' Talk & Aimoo boards, but I think the so-called CB-Microgroove problem is a myth or at least exaggerated, confusing poor CB fit, design, bullet lube and possibly shooter skills with less than stellar results. I.e., it's an "after the fact, therefore because of the fact" situation (or logical fallacy if you prefer).

[Four Fingers of Death]

Well I heard there were a lot of sheep in Texas named 'Ray' but I never heard of a deer named 'Mick'...[/QUOTE]

Don't you know its baa-aa-aa-d manners to take the piss out of people.

Not being an American, I don't get the Ray bit but I'll have to pay the deer joke, I walked into that one, Mick.

[waksupi]

Well I heard there were a lot of sheep in Texas named 'Ray' but I never heard of a deer named 'Mick'...

Don't you know its baa-aa-aa-d manners to take the piss out of people.

Not being an American, I don't get the Ray bit but I'll have to pay the deer joke, I walked into that one, Mick.[/QUOTE]

Mick, Ray is Carpetman's first name, and he lives in Texas. And he likes sheep.

[carpetman]

Yea I like sheep ok. None have ever bothered me. Without them would do without wool. Now Waksupi well he would be doing without without them. I'm not sure he even knows they are used for wool.

[KCSO]

And from the Winchester side...

I just got another M94 made in 1974 for $150.00. The gun was in excellent condition and on my first range trip it shot 31141 bullets over 10 grs of Unique into 2 3/4" at 100 yards. This was two steps up on the elevator to print 2" low at 100. The same gun with WW 748 will shoot the same bullet at 2000 fps from a 20" bbl and will kill anything you can do in with a jacketed bullet. I prefer the Winchesters for looks as for me after 1936 the Marlins had their gun stocks made to thick and clubby. I did have one 1893 Marlin that was a super shooter with cast bullets. I just finished re barreling a 30-30 to 32 special for a friend and I may do mine also as GPC has the Winchester 32 bbl at a decent price again. I am firmly against necking 30-30 brass up to 32 special since I bought 100 rounds of 30-30 that were too big for my gun and I had to GIVE them to my buddy with the 32 Special.

[Scrounger]

Ray, who's feeding your cats while you're out in Nevada gambling?

[carpetman]

Be gone a few days. My cats. Well as a matter of fact I removed the cat food. Sprung the trap too. Have to spring all my sparrow traps tomorrow.

[kenjuudo]

Be gone a few days. My cats. Well as a matter of fact I removed the cat food. Sprung the trap too. Have to spring all my sparrow traps tomorrow.

Ray, I heard a cat was a sparrow trap, don't really know, never watched one any longer than it took for the sights to settle.....

jim

[carpetman]

kenjuudo---A sparrow is a cat decoy and whats nice is they work better when dead. It is very easy to simulate the call of a dead sparrow. In fact I make my own call for this. Anybody want to buy one,I have a bunch.

[wills]

Yea I like sheep ok. None have ever bothered me. Without them would do without wool. Now Waksupi well he would be doing without without them. I'm not sure he even knows they are used for wool.

Do not read if easily offended:

http://www.dumbasspeople.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1651270902/an/0/page/0#1651270902

[Mel-4857]

Haven't played with a Micro groove Barrel but have had good result with My 1949 vintage long barrel 32 Special Marlin with the old rifling. It'll do 1.5 to 2.5 " at a 100yds with Magna Cast Plain base bullets . I'm getting encouraging results with the Lee 8mm bullets. The Plain base load I use is 17gr of surplus H335 with the170gr boolit . It clocks 1350 fps. I've attached a pic of my best group so far; 5 shots, 100yds,no wind and I must have been holding my mouth just right. Mel

[KCSO]

I'd of been proud to shoot that from a scope bolt gun, GOOD SHOOTIN'.

[Char-Gar]

A used Marlin 336 will run you between $150 and $250 depending on condition, time of year and where you live.

You can expect a Marlin 30-30 to shoot cast bullet with the same accuracy and at the same speed (up to 2.2K fps) as factory ammo.

SAECO 305 is the bullet of choice. yes, I know it is listed as a 31 cal for t he 303 British, but this is the bullet that works best. Size it .311. you don't need an alloy any harder than any other rifles. I am not going to write tome about why this is the bullet and sizing diamter. I have three Marlin 30-30s and get great cast bullet accuracy from them. You read allot of negative stuff about Marlins and cast bullets, but it comes from folks who don't understand the specs of the rifles.