flying with a firearm?

[quilbilly]

Does anyone out there have experience flying Allegiant Airlines and firearms? I have been gifted a post 64 Mod 70 as part of an estate and would like to fly with it back if there isn't time to make the drive to Las Vegas in a month or two. I could also fly Alaska out of the same airport but it would be a lot more expensive plus require a stop enroute.

[Idz]

You can mail rifles to yourself.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

The airlines x-ray everything so the thieves in baggage handling know what you're sending. They may 'lose' it or destroy it depending on their mood. I've had better luck with the mail than airlines delivering breakable things.

[Winger Ed.]

Call the airline and ask them specifically, and get the name of who you talked to.

Federal regulations are what they are,
but the individual airlines sometimes have their own interpretations of them.

You might not find this out until they refuse to let you board, or refuse carrying a firearm
on their airplane if its not in the right kind of case.

And take out vital parts that can be carried or mailed separately like the bolt and trigger guts.
That will make it less appealing to thieves.

[Petrol & Powder]

Airlines RARELY "lose" firearms in checked baggage. The extra scrutiny actually makes the item less likely to be stolen.

Call the airline, make sure they don't have some funky policy and follow the federal rules for checking firearms.

Otherwise, shipping it to yourself is another option. I would use FedEx, insure it for full value and drop it off personally at a FedEx distribution center.

[dangitgriff]

Winger Ed is right on...I was rejected by American Airlines a couple months ago for not having my firearm in the hard factory case or a hard plastic case with 2 locks on it...even though the case I had was locked and packed inside another checked hard-sided bag that also had a lock on it.
The locks on your firearm case don’t have to be TSA locks—use your own.
Here is what I will be buying for my pistol for air travel:
246994

[Duckiller]

ATF says you can mail to yourself. Fed Ex and UPS won't send it to yourself. Put it in a hard gun case and lock it up with several padlocks and tell the airline. I would check with the airline to see if they have any special requirements. Last gun I flew with the airline didn't look at it. They asked if it was loaded and gave me a certificate to put in the case and told me to lock it up. When it got to LAX it was set offto the side with no one watching it. I picked it up and walked out.

[dangitgriff]

You can mail long guns ONLY via USPS: person-to-FFL in another state or from yourself to yourself in another state. No person(seller)-to-person(buyer) shipments allowed.
Absolutely no pistols may be mailed through the USPS.
Long guns should be disassembled to whatever extent practicable & shipped in the smallest form-factor box practicable with NO markings on the outside indicating its contents.

[Handloader109]

Got to be in a hard case.....Locked.... Probably cheaper to mail USPS....

[Petrol & Powder]

FedEx and UPS will allow you to ship a gun to yourself, you just have to educate the clerk at the counter or, more likely, their boss.

Don't go to one the off-site shipping centers run by another company, go to an actual FedEx or UPS distribution hub. The manager will know the law or know who he/she needs to call to learn the law.

Technically USPS will ship long guns that comply with postal regulations but good luck ever finding a USPS employee (including some postmasters) that actually know the law.

If you're flying anyway, you might as well put it in an approved hard case, put the required locks on it and check it in.

[Markopolo]

i would tell you that Alaska Airlines has Mega experience with firearms.. tons of alaskans travel with firearms, and everybody comming to alaska to hunt has a gun shipped.. much easier to fly with it..

[NyFirefighter357]

Remove the stock, mail the "tool" to yourself and bring the stock back in your luggage.

[rking22]

Cheap wallyworld plastic hard case and 2 padlocks. Check the airline for their requirements, just in case. I don’t think I have been on an airplane in the last 11 years without checking a shotgun! Went thru Denver the day of the Dem convention, no big deal. Just understand the rules and follow them.

[quilbilly]

Thanks to you all. Great information!

[NyFirefighter357]

https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

USPS 432 Mailability / 432.3 Rifles and Shotguns / C: A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner‘s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mail pieces must: (1) Be addressed to the owner. (2) Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian. (3) Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only. (4) Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition

https://youtu.be/q_1SFqhOMXE

[Wayne Smith]

It has been easy to fly with a gun, simply call TSA at the airport well ahead of time, find out the current rules, and follow them. They are set up to do exactly this. It is not the airline, it is the TSA that handles this.

[EDG]

I think you are required to have a 4473 for any firearm acquired in/from a state not adjoining your state of residence. So you must have it shipped to a dealer who can run the NICS on you in your home state.

People fly with and mail rifles to themselves all the time.
At Accurate Reloading there are a lot of international (Africa) hunters that regularly travel with firearms and they know how to get through the systems around the globe.

[DocSavage]

If your going to fly with a firearm don't buy a cheap Walmart plastic case get something substantial say a Pelican case baggage handlers tend to be less than gentile with baggage . Have seen to many videos of baggage being treated with no regards to content.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think you are required to have a 4473 for any firearm acquired in/from a state not adjoining your state of residence. So you must have it shipped to a dealer who can run the NICS on you in your home state.

People fly with and mail rifles to themselves all the time.
At Accurate Reloading there are a lot of international (Africa) hunters that regularly travel with firearms and they know how to get through the systems around the globe.

I don't think that's accurate for long guns being shipped by the owner to the same owner, in the U.S.A.

The gun is not changing ownership or constructive possession, while in transit.
The carrier (airline, FedEx, UPS, etc.) has custody of the package but not constructive possession of the gun; the gun remains in the constructive possession of the person shipping the gun on one end and retrieving the gun on the other end of the trip. So a 4473 is not needed because the gun was never transferred [by ATF standards].

It's no different than putting a box containing a gun into a moving van in one state and having that gun shipped to your new home 4 states away. (not that I would recommend that practice). As long as you can lawfully posses the gun at both ends of that journey, you don' need to do anything other than retrieve your gun from the carrier at the other end of that journey. You didn't transfer possession of the firearm (by ATF standards) to the moving company (and all of its convicted felon employees) during the transport.

When you check a firearm in your luggage at an airport and some convicted felon baggage handler picks that gun case up and loads it on the plane, by law he's not "in possession" of a firearm during that activity. As long as the package is unopened and remains in the custody of the carrier (Airline, FedEx, UPS) AND remains un-opened by the person it is delivered to "in care of" - the person shipping the gun has not transferred it to someone else during the journey.

International transport of firearms is a WHOLE different story. Now we're getting into importation and the laws of other sovereign nations.

[Petrol & Powder]

And to be clear, I read the OP and as I understand it, he is a resident of Washington State and has become the owner of a long gun located in Nevada. Those are not adjoining states and if he was obtaining the gun from a FFL in Nevada, that might require shipping the gun to an FFL in Washington state. However, if he can lawfully take possession of a long gun from private person (such as a family member) in Nevada, the gun becomes his and he can proceed as if he shipping the gun to himself.

Perhaps a member with knowledge of Nevada law can answer the question: Can a non FFL resident of Nevada gift a long gun to a non-resident ? (assuming everyone can lawfully possess that gun).

If the OP cannot take possession of that gun from a non-FFL in Nevada then his situation changes and the gun must be shipped to a FFL in Washington State. He would then go to that FFL and complete a 4473 before taking possession of that gun in his home state.

[Petrol & Powder]

And here's what I've found so far:
Nevada Senate Bill 143 was passed by the Nevada legislature and signed by the Governor. It goes into effect on Jan 1, 2020 BUT even after it goes into effect, it has an exceptions for transferring a firearm between most family members and to administrators of wills.
So currently I believe a non-FFL family member can transfer a long gun to another family member.

After the law goes into effect the administrator of a will or trust will have to present the firearm to a FFL to transfer the gun (after 1/1/20 the administrator of a will can take possession of the gun without going to a FFL but he can't transfer it to another person without a background check).

Nevada SB143 exceptions- in part:

3.The sale or transfer of a firearm between immediate family
members, which for the purposes of this section means spouses
and domestic partners and any of the following relations, whether
by whole or half blood, adoption, or step-relation: parents,
children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles,
nieces and nephews.
4.
The transfer of a firearm to an executor, administrator,
trustee or personal representative of an estate or a trust that
occurs by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of
the firearm.


So........if the OP is a family member of the prior owner and takes possession of that gun before 1/1/20, he becomes the new owner of the gun and can ship it to himself.
If he waits until after 1/1/20, the administrator of the estate will have to take the gun to a Nevada FFL. That Nevada FFL cannot transfer that gun to an out of state resident of a non contiguous state, SO........it will then need to go to a FFL in Washington State for the final transfer to the OP in Washington.

IF I HAVE CORRECTLY UNDERSTOOD existing law.


I'm going to say that the SAFE thing to do would be have the administrator of the estate take the gun to a Nevada FFL, have that FFL ship the gun to a Washington State FFL and have the OP take possession of that gun in Washington State from that FFL.

[Duckiller]

No 4473 is required. Its your gun. You are flying on the airlines' plane they set the rules. There is a whole bunch of misinformation on this post. Talk to the airlines. They don't mind carrying guns in the cargo hold where you can't get to it.

[Petrol & Powder]

The underlying question is:

Can the OP, A resident of Washington State, take possession of that rifle in Nevada?


If it was from a FFL, the answer may be, NO, he is an out of state resident from a non contiguous state.

If it's from a private individual, such as the administrator of an estate......Maybe YES, he can take possession of the gun.

If the OP can lawfully take possession of the gun in Nevada then all he needs to do is place the unloaded rifle in the appropriate case with the appropriate locks and check it in with the airline. DONE.
OR
He could package it appropriately and ship it from Nevada to his home in Washington State.

[EDG]

Federal law specifically requires a NICS check for firearms in interstate commerce.
If you take possession in one state and you live in another that is an interstate transfer of ownership.

Flying has nothing to do with the need of a 4473.
You are clearly planning to cross a state line with a firearm you acquired in a state that you do not live in.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm not sure if I go to my father's house in another state and he gives me a gun, I need to fill out a 4473 just to take my gun home.

If I go to a FFL in another state and acquire a long gun, I will need to fill out a 4473. If I'm not in a state adjacent to my home state, I may not be able to acquire it at all.

So going back to the OP's situation, he has been gifted a firearm from an estate in Nevada. It appears he is a resident of Washington. Can he take possession of that gun in Nevada without going through a FFL?

From the OP, " .......I have been gifted a post 64 Mod 70 as part of an estate ....."

[Wayne Smith]

You guys are missing one piece of information. Inheritance is the one exception to all the transfer laws. All he has to do is transport the gun as if it has always been his. As far as the law is concerned, that is the situation. This is only true in the case of inheritance.

[Petrol & Powder]

Wayne, I suspect you're correct but I don't know Nevada law enough to be sure.

It is clear that after 1/1/20 the Nevada law will allow the administrator of an estate to take possession of a firearm without going through a FFL but it will not allow the administrator to transfer that gun to the heir without going through a FFL.

So until the end of this year the OP can simply take possession of the gun and it is his gun at that point. He can then ship that gun by any lawful means he sees fit. (checked baggage, common carrier, etc.)

After1/1/20 there will be two sets of laws to deal with; Nevada law concerning the transfer of firearms between individuals and the federal law concerning the interstate transfer of firearms.

[EDG]

I am not so sure of that.
1. First off who is he inheriting it from? He did not say it was from a family member and if it was from someone else what does that mean to the feds?
2. The law obviously has a flaw because it means a family member could leave a firearm to a convicted felon or to a person with a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction. Neither are permitted to own or possess a firearm or ammo. It appears the only way to sort that out would be with a 4473 and a NICs check.


You guys are missing one piece of information. Inheritance is the one exception to all the transfer laws. All he has to do is transport the gun as if it has always been his. As far as the law is concerned, that is the situation. This is only true in the case of inheritance.

[Petrol & Powder]

There are TWO different sets of laws in play for the OP's scenario; the law of Nevada AND federal law.

First the OP needs to gain possession of the firearm. Currently, Nevada has little regulation over the transfer of firearms between individuals. As long as none of the parties are prohibited persons, guns can generally change hands between individuals. However, Nevada has passed a law to regulate the private transfer of firearms and will generally require a FFL to be involved in the transfer of firearms between individuals. That law goes into effect on 1/1/20. While that Nevada state law has some exceptions and allows some transfers to occur without an FFL in the loop, the exceptions are limited.

THEN, we must also consider federal law. If the OP must take possession of the rifle from an FFL in Nevada, the FFL may not be allowed to transfer the rifle to a resident of a non-contiguous state.

In the OP's scenario the state and federal law are intertwined. Prior to 1/1/20 the OP may be able to take possession of that rifle from an individual without involving a FFL. He would then be able to ship the rifle by a lawful means of his choice.
After 1/1/20 the administrator of the estate will likely have to deliver the rifle to a FFL to conduct a background check and related paperwork in compliance with the new Nevada law. At that point the Nevada FFL may not be allowed to directly transfer the rifle to a resident of Washington state.

So the title of the thread, "flying with a firearm" is a bit misleading because the OP's scenario involves more than just the possible transport by aircraft.

[45workhorse]

Just keep in mind, that piece of luggage may be hand carried out by airport personnel.

Flew to a conference in Nevada once, went to the luggage carousel, waited and waited, no more luggage! Went to lost and found and was informed that they hand carry firearms out. I don't have a problem with that it just would have been nice to know ahead of time. Majority of the time it just comes down the luggage chute.

Ask, the airline, every place is different!

Enjoy the rifle!

[quilbilly]

Thanks again to all of you! I still hope to drive down in the fall visiting friends from this board like Ammohead et. al.en route and enjoying seeing the quaking aspen change color in Nevada. Flying is Plan B which is certainly cheaper but nowhere near as enjoyable. I already have the mold, dies, a lifetime supply of brass that I have already prepped, and a whole lot of loads to try so you can imagine how excited I am. I have even cast a few good looking Loverin boolits with nothing to shoot them in yet. Hopefully the snow doesn't fly to early this year.

[NyFirefighter357]

NY is so screwed up if your flying from TX to New Hampshire with a pistol or assault rifle & have a layover somewhere in NY state, where the flight is cancelled or delayed long enough that you get your luggage back they arrest you for possession of an illegal firearm. Lets say you find you can save money by booking 2 different flights one from TX to Buffalo then from Buffalo to New Hampshire which means you have to get your checked bags to transport them to the next flight, your now in possession of an illegal weapon Your fine if the TSA keeps the guns on there side of the counter and transports them to the next flight, it's only if they give you possession of them.