Great Plains

[megasupermagnum]

This is a design I've heard nothing about, except for a few who really like it. I am seeing two distinct versions. One is the Lyman solid, which appears to cast too small. The other a Hornady hollow base which has mixed reviews. My 54 caliber really likes a maxiball which is .550" on the top band and .540" on the bottom two. In particular I am interested in the Accurate molds 55-430M, with the same dimensions. My concern with the maxiball is that the design looks like it would mediocre for hunting, at least for the recoil you have to endure to shoot it. This great plains style looks to me like it would work great, assuming it would shoot good. Are any of these great plains bullets worth trying?

[Good Cheer]

For me they're all worth trying.
[smilie=s:

Guess it just depends on what you want to do.
Experiment for enjoying a hobby? That's loads of fun.
Develop loads and target shoot? That's difficult mastering myself.
Want to kill something? That's real easy.
Any how, those are my thoughts. When I get time I'm going back to the GPR experimenting with hollow bases. A thick skirted minie can be slammed hard enough to seal the bore but you're walking that fine line towards over powering the skirt.

[charlie b]

The commercial version shoots well for me, but, I have to use a wad under it and size it to bore instead of engraving when loading. Then use a large enough charge to upset it into the rifling. For my Lyman Great Plains Hunter that was 100gn Pyrodex Select. I could get 2" groups at 100yd with the 32 twist barrel.

I shot it just sized with the factory lube and I also sized it a bit smaller and paper patched it. Shot about the same for me.

PS mine is the .50 cal version

[LawrenceA]

I use the Lyman 425gn mold and 80gns FFFg behind it in my Great Plains Hunter. Shoots great!
Was hitting a garden stake at about 60-70 paces with it.

[megasupermagnum]

I figured what the heck, I ordered the 55-430M from Accurate molds. I have a bunch of molds I need to post for sale anyway, what's one more if it doesn't work out. What I want is something that shoots as good as the maxiball, but kills as effectively or more so than a round ball. I just don't like what I'm seeing as far as hunting with the maxi ball.

[charlie b]

I think you will like them. They cut really nice round holes in things :) ML version of a SWC.

[Chill Wills]

What I want is something that shoots as good as the maxiball, but kills as effectively or more so than a round ball. I just don't like what I'm seeing as far as hunting with the maxi ball.

I used the maxi in my GP 54 shooting a few mule and one elk. I had the round ball twist. Maybe 1 in 60 or 66"? It shot amazingly well in the slow twist.
A few game animals is too few to base my opinion on.

I would be interested in what you are seeing you don't like about the way the maxi ball kills.

Thanks.

[megasupermagnum]

I used the maxi in my GP 54 shooting a few mule and one elk. I had the round ball twist. Maybe 1 in 60 or 66"? It shot amazingly well in the slow twist.
A few game animals is too few to base my opinion on.

I would be interested in what you are seeing you don't like about the way the maxi ball kills.

Thanks.

I have the TC 1:48" twist, and it shoots a maxi ball really well. I've tried to make a round ball shoot as well, but have not so far.

For how popular the maxi ball is, I'm not seeing a lot of description for hunting. This is usually a bad sign. The few I have seen, including pictures, pretty much show a 1/2" entrance, a 1/2" exit, and nothing spectacular in between. Now before someone jumps on me about how it's all I need, let me explain my thinking. This is a 435 grain (one ounce) slug, moving at about the same speed as a one ounce shotgun slug. It is not a pleasant recoil, but I'll take it for the accuracy I'm getting. The problem is for all that recoil, your getting 357 magnum handgun performance on game, of course with much increased penetration. The extra penetration means nothing to me, as I hunt medium size game, whitetail, black bear, etc.

There is absolutely no way an animal is going to walk off a good hit from a maxi ball, I make no mistake about that. But if I'm going to shoot a 54 caliber rifle, I want 54 caliber performance. Unless I find a round ball load that shoots good, I'm either going to be using a maxi ball, or the Accurate 55-430M great plains.

[Good Cheer]

TC used to have an advertisement showing their maxiball and maxihunter.
The claim to fame for the maxiball was penetration. Expansion for the maxihunter.

[megasupermagnum]

I thought about the maxi hunter, but there just seems to be no source. They are no longer made, and I have never seen a 54 caliber maxi hunter mold, assuming they existed. The maxi ball is far more available, I have a TC mold on the way as we speak. I did have the idea of hollow pointing the maxi ball. That is something I will try if they end up shooting the best. It would be no big deal for me to take a dozen a year to a lathe to drill hollow points.

[Chill Wills]

Ok. I am with you.
Also thinking hollow pointing if you think it is needed. Lead drills gummy. :bigsmyl2:

Really, I have little first hand experience but I will say you are right, in my few head of game taken, no massive expansion hole like a 30-06 180 would do.
Basically, what I remember about hitting one deer too high with an offhand shot at about 125 yards was that the Maxi-ball went high in the chest and scooted under the backbone and I was bummed I had shot a hole through the tenders. A thumb sized hole with very little bloodshot meat around the hole though and I got lucky I did not ruin much.

I did not give the bullet performance much thought as the mule deer dropped without a step. Soft pure lead, who knows the speed at impact, in the right side and out the left. That was that.
My thumb wears size extra-large glove so I would guess about an inch hole ???? The performance on the one elk cow I took was also one shot, 20 or so stiff leg steps and down she went. Cleaning her I had Really bloody lungs and chest cavity. There was no doubt she bled out fast. I don't remember the details but I most always try for center of chest.

I guess all that was for the what it is worth department.

The crown on my Lyman was worn and I replaced the barrel with a drop in faster twist. Maybe Hunter barrel? I had a hard time finding accuracy with the Maxi and found a Lyman 533 476 hollow base and it shot better from the get go. Not as good yet as the Maxi ball in the old slow twist barrel but I am still working on it.

Hunting is great - good luck and have fun. Do you get a chance for Moose?

[megasupermagnum]

No, MN shut down the moose hunting a few years ago. Elk hunting is just a single herd up in Grygla. I hear not as many as you would think apply for the elk tag, but it never interested me. For us common hunters, we have no big game here. The biggest we have is whitetail and black bear.

It sounds like you had good luck, a 1" hole is impressive to me. What I was hearing was half that maybe, kinda, sorta. Chances are I'll end up shooting a maxi ball, HP maxi ball, and great plains into wet newspaper and seeing for myself what I feel comfortable with.

[triggerhappy243]

No, MN shut down the moose hunting a few years ago. Elk hunting is just a single herd up in Grygla. I hear not as many as you would think apply for the elk tag, but it never interested me. For us common hunters, we have no big game here. The biggest we have is whitetail and black bear.

It sounds like you had good luck, a 1" hole is impressive to me. What I was hearing was half that maybe, kinda, sorta. Chances are I'll end up shooting a maxi ball, HP maxi ball, and great plains into wet newspaper and seeing for myself what I feel comfortable with.

megasupermagnum, do not underestimate the maxi-ball. It packs close to a ton of muzzle energy. Hit shoulder bone with that and it will knock it's winkey into it's watch pocket. I load and shoot it with 90 gr. Pyrodex and she shot this group at 100 yards. 3 shots off a bench with iron sights. no over powder wad.

[megasupermagnum]

I would never purposefully take a shoulder shot, and while it sounds like Chill Willis had good results, everything else I'm seeing on animals is adequate but not spectacular. I do not believe in energy dump at all either. While mine hasn't shot quite that good yet, it is not far off.

I got my used TC maxi ball mold in the mail today, and cast some great looking bullets with it right away. Unfortunately I think I got a dud. The rear bands are only dropping .535" and the top band only .540". Thinking it might be a casting problem, I measured the base band of the mold as best as I could. My smallest bore gauge fit well enough, and it measured .5362". So I'm already getting spectacular fill out. I might as well try and shoot them, but I can already guess this one is no good.

I was thinking ahead about a week ago, when I contacted Arsenal molds for making a maxi ball mold. I believe he is currently working on one based on my dimensions. Can you do me a favor triggerhappy243? Could you measure your bullets for me?

[Good Cheer]

Being a TC mold it's aluminum. Gonna try lapping it?

[megasupermagnum]

I think it is beyond lapping. I would need to lap the top band .010".

[triggerhappy243]

I think it is beyond lapping. I would need to lap the top band .010".

are you casting with pure lead?

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, but as I said, the cavities are not even big enough. Obviously I can't get a bullet bigger than the mold no matter what alloy I use.

[triggerhappy243]

you could insert the leading band into the muzzle to see if it slips in by hand.

[megasupermagnum]

It does, it is basically a slip fit, just a hint of rifling engraving.

[triggerhappy243]

It does, it is basically a slip fit, just a hint of rifling engraving.

Well that is definitely not good. I measured the Maxi balls that I cast and coincidentally enough they are ten thousands of an inch larger than yours. And seeing as how Smith & Wesson now owns TC they will not honor any kind of warranty seeing's how that they don't do anything with Muzzleloader stuff anymore. I am curious is your rifle a TC rifle?

[charlie b]

All may not be lost. If you put a felt and card wad behind them with a stiff load of powder it will upset into the grooves just fine.

Slip fit is how I shoot all the conicals out of my .50 cal Lyman GPH, including the paper patched stuff. Like I mentioned before, the Hornady Great Plains bullets are very accurate fired that way.

[megasupermagnum]

I've got them casted, so I might as well shoot them. Yes, I have a Thompson Center Renegade. The guy I bought the mold from says they shot great in his Renegade, so who knows.

[Chill Wills]

I hope they work out.
I agree with Charlie b. I am not sure what the right charge would be. A little fun with load testing will tell.
As long as the bullet does not move or fall out:shock: and you find an accurate load, all is well.

For what it is worth.
My T/C 54 Maxi-ball mold cast 0.538" body - 0.548" nose band.
But with this new fast twist Hunter barrel I have had better accuracy with the hollow Lyman Mini bullet and 80grs of 2F Olde Eynsford.

[megasupermagnum]

Really, a minie ball shot better for you? I don't want to bother with most minie's, but I have been looking at the Lee improved minie oversized 540" diameter.

[PRONGHORNSOUTH]

If you'd like, go to Prbullets. Not trying to sell product here, but they do have a bullet chart showing expansion, of their bullets. Perhaps you could get an idea, of what to expect, with a similar bullet.
Got to the home page, left side bar, click on "new qt" under saboted bullets, (yes...saboted bullets, bear with me) scroll to the bottom of the page, click on "bullet screen". Check the photos.
Hope things work out. Testing is the fun part!

[Good Cheer]

Get some valve grinding compound.

[megasupermagnum]

Get some valve grinding compound.

There is no way the mold is still going to be round after lapping .010". I would rather just sell it to a person with a tight bore.

[megasupermagnum]

Still didn't get to the range, been too windy. I got my Accurate molds 55-430M today, only a week after ordering. Tom is so fast, and makes such a great mold. I love that he started putting vent lines on the top too, as the bases fill out so much easier. Anyway, I went right to casting with it. Just my usual cleaning, and heating. With pure lead, this mold is my hottest running mold for sure. I had to go all the way to 810 degrees, and run it fast enough to where it started finning to get perfect fill out. Oddly, I found if I squeezed the handles just a little harder, the finning mostly went away. I've got a handful of good bullets casted, I'll be pan lubing some along with the maxi balls with some SPG to compare with TC bore butter. These run big, I specified both bottom bands at .541". They are casting about .543". The third band is about .550", and the top band is a good .553". As long as I can load these straight, I bet they shoot great.



I have no doubt to the lethality of this bullet.

247441

[megasupermagnum]

I finally got to shoot over the weekend. Thankfully the 55-430M shoots as good as it looks. like all conicals I've tried so far, they love the speed. 80 grains is poor, 100 grains is decent, 110 grains very good, and 120 grains brought it down to a 3" group at 100 yards. Next trip I'm thinking of even trying 130 grains. I couldn't find my SPG, so I used 50-50 beeswax and crisco for lube. Fouling was tough. I tried soaking the felt wad in bore butter as well, still no better. I could shoot two shots fine, but a third would be too much. At the range I swab every shot anyway. The only thing I was worried about was how hard these large casting bullets would be to start. It turns out it's not bad at all. Just a quick wack with the short starter and they pop right in.

Now the big problem came later with another gun. I was shooting as normal and went to swab the barrel after a shot. I pulled up and the handle came clean off my range rod. It is the 5/16" stainless rod with bore guide from Track of the Wolf. A great rod. I used vice grips and pulled the rod out. I then went to use my spare rod, just a basic aluminum rod with two pressed in ends. After a couple shots, I noticed the end, ferrule for lack of a better word, was coming loose. I finished the rest of the day with the rod I keep on the gun without issues.

The aluminum rod is one thing. It was just a couple ferrules pushed into the end of a tube. The range rod shouldn't have failed. Along with gluing the handle back on, I'm thinking of trying to drill through and using a roll pin for extra strength.

[triggerhappy243]

I finally got to shoot over the weekend. Thankfully the 55-430M shoots as good as it looks. like all conicals I've tried so far, they love the speed. 80 grains is poor, 100 grains is decent, 110 grains very good, and 120 grains brought it down to a 3" group at 100 yards. Next trip I'm thinking of even trying 130 grains. I couldn't find my SPG, so I used 50-50 beeswax and crisco for lube. Fouling was tough. I tried soaking the felt wad in bore butter as well, still no better. I could shoot two shots fine, but a third would be too much. At the range I swab every shot anyway. The only thing I was worried about was how hard these large casting bullets would be to start. It turns out it's not bad at all. Just a quick wack with the short starter and they pop right in.

Now the big problem came later with another gun. I was shooting as normal and went to swab the barrel after a shot. I pulled up and the handle came clean off my range rod. It is the 5/16" stainless rod with bore guide from Track of the Wolf. A great rod. I used vice grips and pulled the rod out. I then went to use my spare rod, just a basic aluminum rod with two pressed in ends. After a couple shots, I noticed the end, ferrule for lack of a better word, was coming loose. I finished the rest of the day with the rod I keep on the gun without issues.

The aluminum rod is one thing. It was just a couple ferrules pushed into the end of a tube. The range rod shouldn't have failed. Along with gluing the handle back on, I'm thinking of trying to drill through and using a roll pin for extra strength.

mega...... when you swab, do you use a bronze brush first to scrub the crusty stuff first? that is what I do. Works wonders to loosen the hard fouling.......... which in turn makes swabbing much easier. And, YES, I swab between every shot.

[triggerhappy243]

mega, what does your target look like? I use a target like this. 6.5 inch dia. bullseye ring. the ring is 1.2 inch wide. And yes, I did shoot this 3 shot group at 100 yards.

[megasupermagnum]

No, I never tried a brush. I'll give it a try next time out. For targets, I like the NRA pistol targets, with about a 4" black circle. I use that with the smallest target aperature I have, and the smallest circle in my globe front sight. The pistol target allows me to clearly see the dot at 100-200 yards, yet still give a fine aiming point. I doubt it is as good as a scope, but these peeps are very close. I wasn't shooting quite as good as the target you show. That must be about a 1 1/2" group? I also shoot 5 shot groups, as I find I get too many false positives with 3 shot groups. My best load was a 1/8" felt wad, 440 gr bullet lubed with 50-50 Crisco-beeswax, and 120 grains Goex OE FFg.

Next time out I am going to try 120, 125, and 130 grain charges. I also want to try both with and without the wad. Lastly, I want to try standard Goex.

[dondiego]

Several of my friends, new to muzzle loading, have brought me rifles with the brushes stuck in them. Be careful.

[LAGS]

That is because they inserted tight the bore brush, then just tried to pull it out straight.
If you rotate the bore brush clockwise as you try to remove it, it will not Bind an pull off the end of cleaning rod.
That is why I always put in Pins on my Ends of my Wooden Ramrods, to prevent the ends of the ram rods from pulling off.

[triggerhappy243]

Several of my friends, new to muzzle loading, have brought me rifles with the brushes stuck in them. Be careful.

dondiego, the bronze brushes I use are just snug enough that they exert just enough friction to scrub without the need for 2 men and a small boy to pull out. Too tight of a brush is a bad thing. You make an excellent point.

[megasupermagnum]

That's a good point. I've never had a brush come apart in a muzzle loader, I have had them come apart though. I only Pro-Shot black powder bore brushes with the continuous loop. They cannot fail unless you unscrew them from the rod.

[Good Cheer]

That happened to me about 2009 or '10 when cleaning the .401 bore Great Plains. The 16" twist pulled the brush apart. The easy solution was a piece of 3/8" brass tubing.

[megasupermagnum]

Well I got to the range again, but stupidly forgot the bore brush and targets. I luckily had some stickers, and found some paper plates to use. Results were still very good, I like consistency, as this renegade has proven to be anything but picky this far. I shot two 4 shot groups, both went right at 3 1/4". I am happy with that. This was again same load, CCI magnum caps, 120 grain FFg Olde Ensford, felt wad, and 440 grain great plains bullet. I did remember the plain red bottle Goex FFg though, and ran that. After four shots I saw nothing but a big hole in the spotting scope. I decided to do one more for good measure and blew it! I saw the sights move right at the shot. It would have went just under 2" if I hadn't blown the shot. As it is, it is still a 3 1/2" group. I'm still going to try 115, 125 and maybe 130 grain powder charges as well. I also want to try without the felt wad.

Now here is the amazing thing. I had the hard fouling with Goex OE same as I did last time. I forgot the brush, but it is a pain to swab out, usually taking 2 or 3 patches. Standard red bottle Goex did not have this hard fouling at all! One quick swab with a licked patch and I had a clean barrel. Being lazy, I usually just left some crust with OE. I believe this is why standard goex shot better, because I had a consistent bore, and more importantly, I could seat the bullet more consistently.

I guess I shouldn't have bought 8 pounds this year of OE before trying it, I still have 5.5 pounds left. This seems so backwards to all the praise Olde Ensford gets. I'll give it another chance, but to me it is plain as day an inferior product for my uses. It smells funny too, red bottle smells like what blackpowder should smell like.


100 yards; CCI magnum cap, 120 grains Red Bottle Goex, felt wad, 440 grain great plains... 4 good shots, one pulled
248145

[charlie b]

Nice group.

You might also try it with a card wad. That made a big difference in my group sizes. Best for me is a card wad with felt wad on top and then the bullet. I use the veggie card wads from BACO.

[megasupermagnum]

Nice group.

You might also try it with a card wad. That made a big difference in my group sizes. Best for me is a card wad with felt wad on top and then the bullet. I use the veggie card wads from BACO.

Sure, I've got some card wads I can try.