Some info on .38 SPL brass

[Dieselhorses]

I recently acquired some 38 special brass and as usual I sort all the head stamps, most of which are Winchester, Federal and Remington Peters. As the night went on, I discovered a number of other brands listed below. Aside from all the "proprietary" stamps, my question is- would you sort the "R-P from the Rem-UMC" and separate the "Winchester from the WW or Western"?

Federal
Winchester
R-P
PMC
WW
Western
Rem-UMC
Starline
Midway
Super-X
US 38 Special
WRA Co.
3-D
Speer
S&W
USC Co.
MRP
Buffalo Rock
Hi-Per
STAR
Zero
W-Super-W
Frontier
HAI (+P)
Markell
Norma
IVI
WCC
Precision
H&S

I'm sure most of you heard of these. Thought it was interesting to see if one ranked way above the rest.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd load them all and maybe separate the head stamps for some real serious target shoot'n.

From a small or medium frame revolver, and even DEWC from a S&W model 59 auto pistol.
I never could tell enough difference to really matter at handgun distances.

If you're loading for a lever action to shoot at 50-100 yards,
I'd keep the head stamps separate like almost everyone does bottle neck cartridges.
For 2-4" handguns inside 25 yards, I wouldn't bother.

[Uncle Jimbo]

I agree with Winger Ed. Unless you are shooting a million $ precision firearm. and loading as close to exactly as possible, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference in cases. Load them, shoot them and enjoy the fun.

[Dieselhorses]

I agree with Winger Ed. Unless you are shooting a million $ precision firearm. and loading as close to exactly as possible, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference in cases. Load them, shoot them and enjoy the fun.

I know what you all are saying as far as performance is concerned... I'm a little nostalgic when it comes to head stamps I guess. For the purposes of shooting, I don't even trim revolver brass most times.

[Winger Ed.]

. I'm a little nostalgic when it comes to head stamps I guess.

Me too. I've got a bowl with unusual things in it too.
Paper shotgun shells, a 12ga. all plastic Wanda, some steel .45 cases from WWII, a issue box of 20 WWII Carcano rounds, etc.

I'd toss a couple of the oddball .38s in the bowl, but just load & shoot the rest.

[Dieselhorses]

Me too. I've got a bowl with unusual things in it too.
Paper shotgun shells, a 12ga. all plastic Wanda, some steel .45 cases from WWII, a issue box of 20 WWII Carcano rounds, etc.

I'd toss a couple of the oddball .38s in the bowl, but just load & shoot the rest.

Yea I'm gonna do that. Wife says I accumulate too much "stuff". I have "half" the stuff I had with the first 2 wives! A man needs tools, guns, gun accessories, ammo, camo and other hobby related things.

[samari46]

3D from what I remember is a commercial reloader and used to take your cases in exchange for loaded ammo and some money. So having said that, there is no way to tell how many times they were reloaded. So in it just might prudent to scrap them. There are some headstamps I've never heard of. IVI is of Canadian MFG though.I would separate according to headstamp. used a lot of the 3D stuff when I lived in NYC. But did get case splits and cracked cast mouths. Frank

[JM7.7x58]

Winchester and RP brass (no nickel, no +P) go in my “Wadcutter Can”. Everything else goes in the “Everything Else Can”.

I have had problems with some brands of brass bulging and not chambering when I seat wadcutter deeply. Since I started sorting this way I have had no more chambering issues.

The “Everything Else Can” brass gets loaded with other boolit types that don’t need to be seated as deeply. I haven’t noticed an accuracy deficit.I should probably do a bench rest accuracy test; sorted brass vs the “Everything Else” brass.

JM

[trapper9260]

For me I would load them all and just take the WC brass out to use it just for WC . Like stated just load and shoot.

[Land Owner]

Wife says I accumulate too much "stuff". I have "half" the stuff I had with the first 2 wives! A man needs tools, guns, gun accessories, ammo, camo and other hobby related things.So, you are married to your next "Ex-" already? Tell me about "half" the stuff, which amounts ONLY to half the money and ALL the previous stuff for reloading, casting, shooting, hunting, fishing, food plotting, camping, home repair, tools, mowing, trucks, trailers, boats, golf cart, you get the picture...money, like wives, can be replaced - but I do not recommend it. Sometimes it takes a few "false starts" to find The One.

[bedbugbilly]

All I've ever used is mixed head stamp range brass - most of which I've purchased on here in the S & S - I've never really noticed any difference and I shoot it out of the half dozen or so 38s that I have - but I'm a "plinker" and not a competitive shooter. I even use nickel and don't mind it though I find the life of it is shorter than brass - but at the price of range brass and the number of times I can reload it before it splits - it's pretty economical. I just bought a 357 lever gun a few weeks ago and I do have several batches of Winchester and 500 Starline stashed away which I will keep separated for the rifle.

The "collection" of different headstamps you encountered is interesting. Years ago, when I was a kid, I collected cartridges but sold the collection maybe 25 years ago. I found myself "collecting" again when I found a headstamp a little out of the norm - so you aren't the only "accumulator"! LOL At some point I'm going to try and put together a display of 38s to show the different headstamps - I have even run across a few pieces of "balloon" brass as well.

Enjoyed your post!

[Sig556r]

Yea I'm gonna do that. Wife says I accumulate too much "stuff". I have "half" the stuff I had with the first 2 wives! A man needs tools, guns, gun accessories, ammo, camo and other hobby related things.

IMHO, you're lucky to have half with 2 ex-wives

[Dieselhorses]

IMHO, you're lucky to have half with 2 ex-wives


I was always the attorney in my past relationships...

[jsizemore]

If your pushing the upper limit of powder then cases could be an issue and accuracy can be off. If your at the lower limit to mid powder charges, then it's not worth the trouble unless your shooting for score.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I am a bit OCD with sorting by HS (in all calibers), but I have a reason. When loading brass with matching headstamps, the press 'feel' will be the same, case to case, so when something 'feels' amiss, then there is likely something wrong and it's time to check that out. When I'm loading mixed HS cases, there can be some very different 'feels' case to case, and it more difficult to 'feel' a problem.



my question is- would you sort the "R-P from the Rem-UMC" and separate the "Winchester from the WW or Western"?
To that question, I answer YES.

[mdi]

I understand "just 'cause I wanna" as for sorting our brass. Besides, inspection is of major importance when reloading so it's no big deal to glance at the case head and toss the case in a separate pile. At one time (maybe even still) one could get their own "custom" headstamp with a minimum order so you are likely to find 38 Special brass with anything for a headstamp. I have seen most of those you listed, but if you want to, you can keep the "major" headstamps together (R-P, with Remington, WW, Western with Winchester, etc.). But I wouldn't try to use specific load for each different 38 Special headstamp. Unless you have some old balloon head cases, there won't be enough difference between headstamps to make much difference. I have been reloading 38 Special since '69 and while I sort some cases (I have way more time to play in my shop than I have time to shoot), I don't have loads per headstamp.

[Hossfly]

I’m going thru 4000 right now and sort Winchester and Federal the rest go into other box, Winchester seems to be predominant amount 10 to 1.

[Texas by God]

I used to sort head stamps on handgun ammo when I could read headstamps. Now I can't so I don't. [emoji16]

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[Char-Gar]

Some of those headstamps go waaayee back in time.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

This subject is getting to the point of being pretty well covered, but my 2 cents worth is that I do separate brass of Winchester and Remington origin, but not into the subcategories of WW and R-P. I use the Win. and Rem. brass mostly for wadcutters, and do have an "everything else" category that I use for just general target practice and plinking loaded with such fodder as 158 gr. LRN. I have a fair supply from days gone by of Win. +P+ brass that I reserve for hotter self-defense type loads. I discard almost nothing because of the headstamp, but will discard almost anything because of condition.

[Dieselhorses]

I am a bit OCD with sorting by HS (in all calibers), but I have a reason. When loading brass with matching headstamps, the press 'feel' will be the same, case to case, so when something 'feels' amiss, then there is likely something wrong and it's time to check that out. When I'm loading mixed HS cases, there can be some very different 'feels' case to case, and it more difficult to 'feel' a problem.



To that question, I answer YES.

You got a good point. I had a mess of mixed brass I was de-capping/sizing and some you could feel resistance, some sized with no resistance! Same goes for priming, seating, crimping.

[Dieselhorses]

Thanks for all the input folks. In the name of accuracy, punch, dependability and just plain shooting fun, I can load 38's all day, every day!

[Follow Me]

What is the avowed purpose of sorting the brass by headstamp? There are a heaping bunch of answers to your question all of which are valid to a degree and each has a heaping bunch of adherants. As for me, my answer is yes, I would separate. But do I see any real value in doing so? No, and therefore, I reload pretty much any and all pieces of brass but at low pressure/velocity.
I only reload to plink at paper and beer cans with my grandchildren. It is a fun filled family time.
I am sure that this missive has nothing that will answer your question and/or serve to change your way of doing business. But it is my two cents worth. Have a good day
Follow Me

[Dieselhorses]

What is the avowed purpose of sorting the brass by headstamp? There are a heaping bunch of answers to your question all of which are valid to a degree and each has a heaping bunch of adherants. As for me, my answer is yes, I would separate. But do I see any real value in doing so? No, and therefore, I reload pretty much any and all pieces of brass but at low pressure/velocity.
I only reload to plink at paper and beer cans with my grandchildren. It is a fun filled family time.
I am sure that this missive has nothing that will answer your question and/or serve to change your way of doing business. But it is my two cents worth. Have a good day
Follow Me

I sort brass, especially when testing. That way if something “out of the ordinary” happens, I can rule that it was or wasn’t the fault of brass. Called it “OCD” but I like to be consistent. Occasionally I will load mixed brass for plinking but not too often.


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[lightman]

If I were shooting at the National level I would sort them down to the exact head stamp or maybe even buy new brass from the same lot number. But I load most of my pistol ammo from mixed head stamps and it shoots pretty well. Probably better than I can!

[Martin Luber]

The internal profiles vary and that can roll in the base of a long hbwc. You can test with a drill bit as a pn gauge; the depth of insertion of an exact fit pin will be greater with wadcutter brass. Rem wc brass used to have two cannelure lines. WW was wadcutter, all others now vary. If using cast wc, you may get a bulge at the bullet base in some brass, if using soft hbwc, you can't tell because the base rolls in. Good luck

[MT Gianni]

If you are going to sort the smaller lots weigh them and see how they compare to the major brands. I would add what ever weighed the same to the majors.

[Bazoo]

I both sort and use mixed for pistol brass.

If I'm going to sort, I separate them out and do not include ww, ww super, or super x in the winchester brass. I can't remember the exact history now (I looked it up once), but winchester bought out the smaller companies and acquired the names. Some of that associated brass could have been made prior to winchesters acquisition. Does it matter? Probably not. Brass made in 1960 will likely be different than brass made in 1990 however. And WCC brass always feels different, harder to size and seat primers than winchester.

For plinking ammo sometimes I don't separate, but I can shoot a handgun better than most and I can tell a difference between ammo capable of 1" and 3" at 15 yards. The empty shotgun hulls can tell a difference too, they prefer mixed headstamps and inconsistent crimps.

38 special was also made with large primer pockets. I don't know if it was all makes in the beginning, or just a couple. I have only a few examples.

Most of the time I don't separate my 45 auto cases but I only expect around 4" at 25 yards.

[JBinMN]

Interesting topic & I am enjoying reading the posts. Thanks for putting the topic up!
:)



I sort brass, especially when testing. That way if something “out of the ordinary” happens, I can rule that it was or wasn’t the fault of brass. Called it “OCD” but I like to be consistent. Occasionally I will load mixed brass for plinking but not too often.


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I think this^ is the only reason I separate by headstamp. Trying to keep as best a "constant" when testing loads. It is also the only reason I would see, in trimming handgun rounds that are not bottlenecked. except for making sure that crimping is constant as well.

If I am not mistaken, different mnfrs of cases usually have different interior volumes. Not much perhaps, but it "is" possible that it could throw off ones test results.

One of the reasons to consider why someone does this sorting ( or trimming) is to compare it to sighting for hunting & using the same mnfr shot shells, or even firearm ammo. If one changes up the mnfr from the sighting in shooting to the actual hunting shooting, there is a possibility that performance that was achieved & desired may change.

Just as one example, if one used Federal ammo to sight in & then used Remington ammo to hunt, the velocity might differ, but most importantly the POI/POI relationship may change as well.

What was in the bullseye grouping when sighted in, could be at whatever o'clock 4" or even more inches away from the bullseye when using a different mnfr ammo, making what would have likely been a kill shot if the Fed. ammo was used, now could create a wounding situation because the ammo was changed to Rem. ammo.

While the possibility of there being too much variation due to that change of ammo in handgun at short range, it might make a difference if one is shooting a handgun for hunting a longer ranges. (Example of that being a recent topic here in the forum about a member using a 41 magnum(IIRC) to shoot deer at up to 100 yards & recently shot one at 88 yards.

If it were possible to have a different POA/POI by not having the same interior volume, or perhaps a different crimp, etc., or different components used, causing the accuracy to be different, the possibility of wounding is increased if the POA/POI changes because of the ammo/components changes. If I am hunting I want a clean kill & not wounding, since the wounding not only results in taking the time to deal with the wounded game, but also the ethics I have in regard to hunting. Basically meaning, If it is not a kill shot, then I do not want to take the shot.


So, those are just a couple of reasons why I would sort headstamp( or trim) my handgun brass. Even if others think it is unnecessary... I do it to suit me & not others.
;)

Anyway, perhaps I am over thinking to some, but at least part of the enjoyment of what I do is trying to use constants in the steps of production, as well as choice of components to achieve constants in results when I am actually shooting the ammo that I handloaded.

Hey, this is just my thoughts & opinion here on this subject, & everyone is welcome to agree or disagree with me. It should not bother me too much either way, since I like my own methods as I currently do things.
;)

YMMV, of course.
;)