Heart troubles

[fatelk]

I know there's a lot of guys here who know about these things, and I have a question. I had a thread about this in the off-topic forum I think, but apparently threads go away after a certain amount of time there, so here's a new one.

My dad, in his late 70's and otherwise pretty healthy, has some serious heart troubles. A year or so ago my mom got him to finally go to a cardiologist, told him he needs a 5-way bypass. He decided that the doctor didn't know what he was talking about and never went back. Too much work to do on the farm, you know.

Fast forward to today. He's in the hospital with water on his lungs and not doing very well. Hopefully he's been scared into taking the doctor seriously. I live a couple thousand miles away and am not able to be there, and can't get any kind of straight info from anyone. It seems some think it might be too late for him now. Any ideas from those of you who have been through this kind of thing before?

[nueces5]

Ok, I'm not a cardiologist, but I'm a doctor, and I can tell you something. If he has water in his lungs, it is because his heart does not have enough strength to do his job. The bypasses are to send blood to the arteries that are responsible for giving oxygen to the heart muscle. They are diseases that have different stages, and according to the current state of the heart, it is already known which is the best option. Basically, it is necessary that the patient and his family trust the doctor, and if more questions are necessary, asking them with respect should not offend anyone. The whole family and the patient have the right to know what they have and why they suggest one way or another.
Also as a doctor, sometimes I get tired of giving infinite explanations of why I do things in one way or another, but I understand that everyone has the right to know.

[jmort]

My dad just died of congestive heart failure
He was in his 90's so nothing to be done
Not sure about the prognosis for open heart surgery for someone in their 70's
But fluid accumulation is the beginning of the end
Will pray for him
If there is something to be done, do it fast

[dangitgriff]

Hope your dad gets the surgery and lives another 10-20 years. My father had a double bypass at Shands in Gainesville, Florida and it gave him 10 more years with us.
Cardiomyopathy is a sonuvabitch...
Whenever a cardiologist can’t diagnose the exact cause of heart failure, I’ve read, they call it cardiomyopathy. It’s a catch-all Dx. Probably what will kill me, too...I have a congenital leaky valve. My son also has it. Damn you, natural selection!

[bedbugbilly]

I'm not a physician - I'm a person who had to face having by-pass surgery 23 years ago at the ripe old age of 43 at the time. I am a type ! diabetic since the age of 14, which of course contributed to the coronary disease. I had just put my life on hold (thankfully have a fantastic loving wife who took up the slack) to take care of my Dad who was dying of cancer. No sooner had he passed and I insisted that my mother go in for a complete physical - they discovered she had an aortic aneurysm - she had the surge and became paraplegic. I had to worry about that and at the same time, get her house remodeled to make it barrier free. Long story short - I had a major heart attack and tests showed I needed by-pass.

I'll answer as someone who had to face it and perhaps shed some light on maybe why your Dad put it off. A lot goes through your mind - scared of the surgery, worried about how it will be paid for and if it will drain family finances - i.e. - if something happens, will your mother have enough to get along on - there are lot's of things that may have affected his decision to not have it.

Now it's time to "pay the piper" and from what you're saying of the situation, if he can undergo the surgery, he really has no choice. I say the following with no criticism of any of the physicians on here . . . . perhaps you're Dad does not deal with doctors well . . . some can be pretty arrogant and others the finest compassionate people in the world. But . . . they have the expertise when it comes to his situation.

My wife was not happy with the bedside manner/personality fo one of the cardiologists I came in contact with - and she was right - the woman was arrogant and a jerk - but she was a good cardiologist and that's all I cared about. To some, it is all clinical - to others, they know the fears the patient faces.

It's hard to be a sone and be that far away. You need to take the time though to talk with the doctors AND any family members there to get a good picture of what is going on and what is needed. None of us here - doctors or those that have gone through it can address it fully beyond the function fo the heart and what is needed for the body to function properly.

If your Dad is putting up opposition to treatment, etc. - I would recommend that maybe someone find a friend who has gone through by-pass surgery go and pay your dad a visit and talk with him. When the surgery goes well and the by-passes are done - it is amazing at the improvement - you can breathe well again, you feel better and once you get your strength back, you need to change your diet and exercise on a regular basis as the heart is like any other muscle in the body. You know your Dad better than anyone else but it is sometimes hard for a person to express their thoughts and feelings to those close to them.

Common sense dictates that your Dad's situation is a serious one. Trust me . . as we get older and start having more and more health issues, we all start to think about the "cycle of life" and our part in it. If your Dad is a farmer, he works with it everyday and is well award of such things. And, like all of those like him that I have had the pleasure of knowing in my lifetime, they put "others" before themselves. There are no guarantees in life but your Dad and your family need to put their trust in what the doctors are telling them. He needs to listen and put his trust in their abilities to give him the help he needs to get better.

What I have said may be of no use at all, but please now our thoughts and prayers are with your Dad and your entire family for what you are all going through and that your Dad's health will improve and he gets the surgery that he needs.

Please keep us posted on how things are going for him and you and your family take care of yourselves as well.

[GhostHawk]

Get it done pops!

You have 2 choices.
Continue on this path with ever worsening health.

Have the surgery and start recovering.

First path will lead to death within a few short years.
Second path has good odds of you recovering and regaining a lot of what you had.

Its no choice at all really. Bring your fears out into the light and face em head on. Do what you have to do.

I'll be praying for you and family.

[Slugster]

My brother in law had a triple bypass last Monday. Says that he should have had it done sooner, but he waited until he could almost not perform his job. He looks much better now, better color and the swelling of his face, neck, and legs are much improved. Tell him not to put it off.

The older you are, the longer and harder recovery is.

He is in my prayers.

[fatelk]

Thank you all. A big part of what’s bothering me is not really being a part of it. My dad and I are not close, never have been. Communication between us is difficult and my opinion carries little weight with him. I talk to my mom more and argued until I was blue in the face last year that they should go through with surgery, to no avail.

They’re big believers in alternative medicine and have a deep seated distrust of the “medical establishment”. They’ve spent a small fortune on some kind of chelation therapy, that’s accomplished nothing but delay treatment, and now I worry that it’s too late.

[fatelk]

This comes right on the heels of my brother-in-law’s car wreck last week (they live next door and work together). At this point he’s paralyzed and they don’t know to what degree he might recover.

[Piedmont]

Fatelk, If your parents are big fans of alternative options and distrust the medical establishment please have them watch the youtube video called Make Yourself Heart Attack Proof with Dr. Essylstyn. They are inclined to be receptive to the message and it takes a complete lifestyle change (mostly diet).

I am one of those who would probably forgo the medical establishment's proposed treatments, but I have already made the lifestyle changes before having any symptoms because a very good friend had a heart attack and I wanted to look into the matter and avoid it if possible. What you are describing might be called congestive heart failure but I think most of these heart problems (with the exception of things like a leaky valve) are related with the same root cause.

You can get reversals with heart disease and natural treatments, and those bypass operations are of questionable benefit from what I have read (studies, not anecdotes). They are big business and the almighty dollar has to affect the recommendation of some of these procedures. On the other hand no one wants to take the responsibility for someone else's health decisions. Also, within the medical community there is an inclination to do what everyone else is doing because it looks better from a legal perspective. If it was the usual and customary treatment there is less chance of a lawsuit even if there is other evidence that other treatments can work as well or better. Plus you're getting paid really well for doing so.

Dr. Dean Ornish has done a lot of work with regards to heart desease also (in addition to Dr. Essystyn mentioned above). Nathan Pritican was an early pioneer in this field and it amazes me how far ahead of the curve he was when he started teaching on this after treating himself and running hospital heart studies back in the 1960s and the guy wasn't even a doctor. Below is the link to the Dr. Essylstyn video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTf0z_zVs0

[poppy42]

I speak from experience. 2013 I had a triple bypass. Was back to work in 6 weeks, spreading fertilizer on shrubs for True Green . I wasn’t exactly 70 and I’m certainly not a doctor and I don’t know what condition his heart is in or anything else . But I had what’s called the widow maker you have it in your sleep and you don’t wake up from it fact of the matter is if it wasn’t for a dog I wouldn’t be here right now. It’s no walk in the park but for a man in good shape obviously he is if he’s works on a farm and he’s healthy enough to have the surgery he should have it done . I will keep you and him in my thoughts

[fatelk]

It sounds like now they're in the process of scheduling bypass surgery for the very near future.

I totally understand lifestyle changes and diet to avoid heart disease, but I don't understand bypass surgery being of "questionable benefit". All the alternative treatment got him so far is lying in a hospital dying, whereas I know and know of numerous people who have benefited significantly from surgery. Person after person after person that I talk to, everyone seems to have someone in their life who's life has been saved with necessary surgery. He gave me the same line last year about surgery, about it being of no value because anyone who had it just sat around and died in short order, because that's what some quack hawking the dang chelation thing told him.

My research into it tells me that people who are unwilling to change their ways ultimately go back to the same problems again, but they are the type that are very willing to make whatever changes are necessary, and stick to them. He doesn't smoke or drink, isn't overweight or diabetic, and my mom will watch him like a hawk with diet, so I think his odds are good if he's still strong enough to get through the surgery and recovery.

I don't entirely trust the medical establishment myself (I am my father's son after all), and I'm all for effective natural medicine, lifestyle, and diet, but I also know there are still "snake oil salesmen" hawking their "miracle cures" to the gullible. Right now I'm angry that they've been led down a path of false hope and delayed effective treatment. His prognosis was much better a year ago when the cardiologist told him in no uncertain terms that he needed a 5-way bypass. To be honest I'm really not in any mood to hear about any quack alternative doctors right now. My biggest fear is that they might back out of the surgery to pursue another quack alternative treatment, and be dead in a couple months.

[EDG]

My grandfather was a 6ft 5 inch 215 lb farmer who was tough as nails and was never sick.
He had several smaller heart attacks in his early 60s. Being an uneducated backward farmer he convinced himself that he could wean himself off his meds when he got better. In 1975 there were not many treatment options besides meds and drinking a glass of wine each night. He was a Baptist so even drinking wine was asking too much. After retiring and getting his farming in order so he could travel he died of another heart attack at age 67. My grandmother out lived him 32 years...

[Handloader109]

alternative medicine won't help in this situation, and in almost all cases, is a minor help. eating well is a good thing, and diet does affect out health greatly. But if a cardiologist says you need a multiple bypass, you need the bypass. no if and or buts. if not, he will be in the ground. Will pray he goes through with it and survives...

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[Sig556r]

Healing prayers to your dad fatelk, may his burden be lightened...

[fatelk]

I want to again say thank you for all the input, good words and prayers.

I have a tendency to stress and worry, talk a lot. Later I feel a little foolish at having started a thread about a private matter on an open forum, to ask the opinions of strangers. Somehow though I don't feel right calling you all strangers. You guys are great. Thank you.

Things are looking up. They have a plan going forward, and the prognosis looks good. The plan involves some rest and healing in the hospital, followed by surgery and recovery, then some life changes to stretch out the golden years hopefully. Longevity is the theme on that side of the family. My dad's family tree is loaded with nonagenarians and centenarians. Mid-70s is still young by their standards.

More good news- my brother-in-law is showing small signs of improvement day by day as well. It's going to be a long, tough road for him, but it looks like at least some degree of recovery is likely.

[GhostHawk]

Fatelk we are brothers, not of blood, but of spirit.

Who else are you going to bring your troubles to?

Each and every single one of you knows and understands things about me that my real life brothers never well, nor do they seem much inclined to learn.

I personally would much rather bring a problem here, get a wide range of advice from which to pick. And probably learn in the process.

Its ok brother, we love you, even if we have not yet met you, know your face, your history.

We have a LOT in common. Carry on brother, your doing just fine. Love you.

[1911sw45]

So true Ghosthawk.

[starreloader]

Get the bypass.. I was walking around for a couple of weeks thinking I had the flu or something close to it.. Never once did I even think I was having a HEART PROBLEM.. Got up one morning and just felt like I had been run over by a Mac Truck.. Set around for a couple of hours and finally called the DOC.. Told him what had been going on with me.. He advised me to come to his office for a check up.. When I got to the office I didn't have to wait all.. The nurse put me a room right away, hooked up all the wires, DOC came in started doing the test, didn't last 2 minutes and he stopped.. Had me lay down and stay still.. Next thing I knew was the EMT's were there and loading me into the ambulance.. Went to the hospital, all I know is I woke up 22 hours later.. Had a triple bypass... When the Doc came to see me he said that I was one lucky person.. He still doesn't know how I lasted as long as I did.. All 3 veins were totally blocked. MAKE SURE YOU DAD GET TAKEN CARE OF!!!!!!!

These are the GOLDEN YEARS????

[woodbutcher]

:D Had my triple bypass 6-16-2008 at UT Knoxville,Tn.Thank you Dr Thomas Gaines and team.I had a fast recovery.By the end of the first week home I was back driving my truck.
By the end of the second week I was back harvesting fire wood.Busting it with a maul and stacking it.Still going strong at 73 soon to be 74.Wishing your Dad the best for a great outcome.God less you all and keep you all safe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[6bg6ga]

Ask your Dad if he enjoys living. Without the bypass his chances of living a longer life will diminish. I'm not a Dr. but I have had heart attacks and currently have 5 stints. When they put in the last 2 they wanted to do a bypass and I was bull headed and told them no unless it was the only way of keeping me alive. Today several years later I find myself having a hard time breathing that is getting enough air to do the normal things I enjoy. Now on medicare its harder to get things done than it was when I payed for Blue Cross and Blue Shield before I retired.

[fatelk]

Thanks guys. They now have a plan going forward, which involves a quintuple bypass in the very near future.

[Preacher Jim]

Good. I can relate to your dad so understand how hard it is to surrender to surgery but God is giving him the chance to live and be productive.

[Char-Gar]

I hear the concerns and understand why people respond to illness they way they do. I am 77 with several incurable diseases, two of which are a forms of blood cancer and the other is just a nusance. I can only say that death is certain for all of us, so no need to run from it as hard as we can. Our primary concen should be being spiritualy prepared for when the end of this life comes. Doing so will also make the ending time much easier for us and our families.

[Echo]

I had my double by-pass surgery 13 years ago. Funny thing, they told me my surgeon was Dr. Ewy. Crap! 25 years before, when I was a Research Assistant @ Univ. Hosp, Dr. Gordon Ewy was in charge of cardiology, and I wasn't happy about having an eighty-year-old guy cutting on my pumper. Turned my surgeon was Gordon's nephew...

[fatelk]

I'm very worried right now because some other health issues are being diagnosed that could mean them not being able to do surgery at all. It's been a rough day.

[1911sw45]

Sorry to hear and in there and we will continue to pray for him and your family.

[Duckiller]

Eleven heart attacks, 8 heart cathertisations and 2 stents. Per cardologist no heart damage . He says I am weird . Chest pains send me to an ER. Have a friend that 20 years ago was asked if he wanted his bypass before or after he had a heart attack. He chose before . He picked the wrong parents and has had several heart problems. 20 years ago bypasses were the treatment for blocked heart arteries. Now alot of people get stents before bypasses. There have been some anti Dr posts in this thread. If you do have a heart problem find a good cardologist and ignore know-it-alls and listen to your Dr.You may not live to 100 but you should live longer and be more comfortable.
fatelk good luck with your father.

[fatelk]

Just an update: surgery was today. They were only able to do one bypass due to his condition and the fact that they've determined he also has leukemia. He's in rough shape. My mom is taking it hard too. As I understand they're going to discuss further treatment once he gains a measure of recovery from this. They've got a long hard road ahead.

I think apart from the obvious physical it's terribly humbling going from being a strong, independent, hard-working farmer to being totally dependent on doctors for your very survival. I feel terrible being so far away. Part of me wants to buy a plane ticket and go try to help, but at this point I'd just be in the way. I'll take the family for a good visit maybe in a few months.

[GhostHawk]

Thanks for the update. I suspect he has a long hard row to hoe with lots of changes to make.
I'll be praying for him and family.

[fatelk]

Just an update: still in the hospital recovering. He's healing up but still has trouble with fluid in the lungs. I was hoping recovery would be quicker and better. It's going to be a long haul I think.

[468]

Prayers for your dad

[fatelk]

Any of you all out there that might be putting off seeing a doctor about possible health trouble, don't put it off too long. He waited far longer that he should have, back in the hospital with complications. It's not good.

[Bazoo]

You and your dad are in my prayers.

[TRX]

Not sure about the prognosis for open heart surgery for someone in their 70's

My wife had a triple bypass at 70. It was supposed to be a quintuple bypass and a pig valve, but apparently there were problems interpreting the diagnostic tests or something. I asked the doctor if that meant we were getting a discount, but he acted like he was Not Amused...

She went into the hospital, they operated a few hours later, next day mostly zonked out, third day up, walking, and came home.

Used-to they'd keep patients for weeks, but now they boot them out as fast as they can; less chance of picking up some kind of infection, etc. Unfortunately hospitals tend to be full of sick people...

It's major surgery, but it's pretty much assembly-line stuff now; most surgeons will batch them up an do several in a morning. And a lot of times the patients are in rather poor shape to start with, but getting the bypass fixes a lot of that.

They take the veins they need out of a leg. Almost everyone says that the leg hurts long after their chest is completely healed. Can't win 'em all, I guess...

[fatelk]

My dad passed away last night.

[Rick B]

My Condolences to You and Your Family.

[Finster101]

Sorry to read this. My condolences to you and your family.

James

[obssd1958]

Sorry to hear of your Dad's passing.

[woodbutcher]

:( My condolences to you and yours Sir.
Leo

[fatelk]

Thank you. I'm still in a bit of a fog right now, looking at plane tickets and funeral arrangements.

[popper]

Prayers for the family.

[blackthorn]

Sorry for your loss. Time will soften, but not cure the hole left by a loved one's passing. You and yours are in our prayers.

[468]

So sorry for your loss.

Hang in there.

[375supermag]

Sorry for your loss...
I know your pain and anguish all to well.

[SSGOldfart]

Sorry for your loss
We are here if you need to talk or just vent.

[Handloader109]

condolences also. it is hard to lose a parent, but we all will face this if we make it long enough ourselves. sounds like he fought a good fight for almost a year. tough gentleman.

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[trys357]

So sorry for your loss.
Prayers for you and family.