winchester highwall

[shortlegs]

Stopped by the LGS yesterday and adopted one of the orphans. 1885 Winchester Highwall in 38-55. Looked it up online and Winchester web sight says they only made 50 in 38-55 and 200 in 45-70 in 2016, also says they are no longer making them. If this is true,I need to buy lottery tickets!

[RedlegEd]

Good for you! Looking forward to pics and a range report. Ed

[skeettx]

Fantastic
My Ruger No. 1 and Marlin Cowboy likes 382 diameter cast boolits (.379 bore)
I wonder what the HighWall is??

[Eddie Southgate]

Congratulations Shortlegs . I got my Dads when he passed away in 2017 , also in 38-55 . Knew they were kinda rare but didn't know they only made 50 , thanks for the info . I am in Minor Hill Tennessee just over the Tenn/ Al line , how far apart are we ?

Eddie

[shortlegs]

I am just outside Birmingham. About 2 hrs south of you. Winchester site says .376 so I just ordered the lee 250 that cast .379.

[bigted]

How long is your barrel?

[shortlegs]

28 in. octagon tapered barrel. Came with standard open sights and Marbles adjustable peep tang sight, adjustable for windage also.

[uscra112]

2016? So Winchester is making High Walls again?

[Chill Wills]

2016? So Winchester is making High Walls again?

Winchester/Miroku Japan

The insides are nothing like a Winchester single shot so parts are very different.
But they are solid, working and well made.

MVA and C Sharps are American made options - custom and semi-custom. More costly.

I for one am glad Miroku fills the need at a price. It is good to have choice in the market place.

[Thundarstick]

I've got one of them in 375 H&H, wonder how many of those where made?

[Green Frog]

Over on the ASSRA.com forum there is a fellow who goes by the screen name ofTexasMac. He has written at least one good about the Japanese high walls and seems to know just about all there is to know about them. You might want to check with him to have your questions answered.

Froggie

[Bigslug]

I bird-dogged a Miroku/Winchester .32-40 for my dad a couple years back (go back enough pages & you'll find my write up). It may well be the most accurate cast bullet gun in either of our collections - it should do well for you.

[lotech]

I bought one not long after Winchester began marketing the Miroku high wall .38-55s, about twenty or so years ago. Running the bullets through a .379" size die has worked well. These guns shoot cast bullets very well and I ended up eventually buying a .32-40 and a .405 as well.

[Eddie Southgate]

I've got one of them in 375 H&H, wonder how many of those where made?

I can't even imagine that one !! Ya'll got much African game in West Tennessee ?? :veryconfu

[Bigslug]

I can't even imagine that one !! Ya'll got much African game in West Tennessee ?? :veryconfu

I suspect someone at the factory was told "Buffalo" by their boss and couldn't decide whether they meant plains or Cape, so we got the plains buffalo rifle with the Cape buffalo cartridge. :bigsmyl2:

[Thundarstick]

I'm probably loading a cast boolit equivalent to the 38-55. It's a fine woods gun. Btw, that 375 ain't got nothing on the Encore in 500 S&W mag, that little booger is a brute! :veryconfu

[MOA]

I'm probably loading a cast boolit equivalent to the 38-55. It's a fine woods gun. Btw, that 375 ain't got nothing on the Encore in 500 S&W mag, that little booger is a brute! :veryconfu


Ya just gotta love J. Browning's iconic design.
https://i.postimg.cc/50FmpN7b/20190825-095950-A.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[uscra112]

Except the Miroku ain't it.

[MOA]

Except the Miroku ain't it.



Gosh, I thought the Browning was based off of the basic design that he provided to Winchester. Guess I'll have to do some more reading up on the single shot designs and rifles that John Browning contributed to the Winchester company. In fact, I was under the impression that the Browning 1885 of modern manufacture was more in line with the original than the Winchester 1885 made by Miroku.

[uscra112]

John Browning's original design was bought by Winchester, and they modified it before putting it into production as the Model 1885. Principal change was to have the breechblock slide at a small angle, rather than at 90 degrees to the barrel axis. A couple of decades later Winchester substituted a coil mainspring for the flat spring attached to the barrel. The last of those were assembled in the 1920's, if memory serves. In recent years the Browning company name has been attached to a "profile" version which looks like an 1885, but the internal parts of which don't interchange with either Winchester version. It's not a bad gun; it's very well made, but it's also not really a Winchester.

[MOA]

Yes, it is not a Winchester in the true sense that it's internal parts have changed. I know the falling block angle was changed to something like 6 degrees for a better seal at the breach. I guess I just look past the small changes like a spring to some degree. But to me there is no real difference between the functionality of the Winchester or the Browning both which are made today by the same company since neither rifle is still made to the original patent or design. As Browning states in its paperwork that comes with their product,

https://i.postimg.cc/cHswvp6M/Screenshot-2019-08-27-17-13-45.png (https://postimg.cc/mc5tq6Yt)



I guess in retrospect it really only matters to those collectors of the REAL original Winchesters that were in fact produced by Winchester from the beginning of the first models offered to the public initially.

[NSB]

Lots of things change over time. Usually it because better methods and materials are developed and after a while it's not an "original". If I could trade my Miroku made "Winchester" right now for an original 1800's era rifle I personally wouldn't do it. I believe my gun is better made and lacks in nothing performance wise. Tooling, steels, and precision are at a much higher level today than in the past. At a glance it looks "close enough" and I like the gun for what it is.....a very well made, very accurate, retro single shot rifle. I didn't buy it for its authenticity.

[oldred]

Yes, it is not a Winchester in the true sense that it's internal parts have changed. I know the falling block angle was changed to something like 6 degrees for a better seal at the breach. I guess I just look past the small changes like a spring to some degree. But to me there is no real difference between the functionality of the Winchester or the Browning both which are made today by the same company since neither rifle is still made to the original patent or design. As Browning states in its paperwork that comes with their product,

https://i.postimg.cc/cHswvp6M/Screenshot-2019-08-27-17-13-45.png (https://postimg.cc/mc5tq6Yt)



I guess in retrospect it really only matters to those collectors of the REAL original Winchesters that were in fact produced by Winchester from the beginning of the first models offered to the public initially.


The only thing "patterned" (despite sales literature) after the original is a vague outward appearance and the floating hammer principle (and even the mechanics of that were radically redesigned). Also even the original Winchester model 1885 is radically different than Brownings original falling block that Winchester bought the rights for, Winchester changed almost everything about the design retaining only the falling block/floating hammer principle and again even that was modified. To call a new Miroku (either the Browning or Winchester version) a Browning design is more than just a bit of a stretch since they are so radically different, not only in mechanical function but also in appearance. The Miroku rifles are extremely fine rifles of fantastic build quality and very appealing in the looks dept but they are their own highly refined design with a throw-back to the original 1885 as a marketing ploy which is not a bad thing at all. Are they "traditional"? Not really but that is of no matter unless a person is concerned with "originality" in which case an old original or one of the newer American or Italian 1885 copies might be a better choice.

[bigted]

Ford Motor company still makes their 1/2 ton pickups. They neither look like , nor drive like a 1923 Ford 1/2 ton pickup.

New ones are modern steel, built to withstand a crash far better, way more comfortable to drive and mostly ... the insides are nothing like the '23' Ford pickup ... however with all the metric Japanese nuts and bolts and engineered structure ... guess what ... its still a Ford 1/2 ton pickup.

My miroku says Winchester on the barrel, it carry's a 30 inch barrel, chambered in 45-70 and has a killer curved butt that has to be fired like the original 1923 model. Same weight to a few ounces, points the same and shoots very similar to the '23' model ... yet yes the insides have modern updates and stronger steel.

Still a Winchester to me ... srry for the windy response. Get weary of the constant reminders and look downs on our modern high wall rifles.

If you want NEW hiwall rifle ... they are still made in the "old" manner and style ... called C Sharps or Uberti or Pedersoli ... NOT Winchester! These are COPY's of Winchesters ... not Winchesters!

[oldred]

Get weary of the constant reminders and look downs on our modern high wall rifles.


Don't remember anyone "looking down on" or in any way maligning the new design Winchester/Brownings and in fact I think the exact opposite has been true. But let's face it the fact is it would be considered kind of silly to look at a brand new 2019 F-150 and comment on the genius of Henry Ford yet we often see this modern Japanese built new design being attributed to John Browning! The rifles are simply different but because of a model number they often get discussed with the originals as if they are the same thing when they are not, not even close. This really does matter because while those of us who are familiar with these rifles know they are radically different some folks not so well acquainted with them don't.

The original 1885 is a classic rifle in every sense and there are modern manufacturers who stay true to the classic design, Miroku does not and is a completely new and highly refined thoroughly modern action that shares only a passing resemblance with an original. Again, you and I and most folks who know these rifles are well aware of this but some others are not as evidenced by past comments not only on this site but others as well. What I don't get is why some get so defensive when it's pointed out that the Miroku rifles are in fact a completely new design and are a rather stark departure from the originals, they are what they are and that is extremely well made and very high quality rifles in every respect but they are not even close to being like an original 1885.

[uscra112]

^^^^Amen^^^^

[samari46]

Skeetx. hope I got your handle right. I also had almost given up on my Ruger #1 due to the fact my barrel slugs out at .459 and I thought I was the only one with this problem. My Lyman gas checked mould struggles to cast a .459 diameter bullet. So looks like I'm gonna go mould shopping. Accurate molds is going to get a call from me for a fatter 45-70 bullet. Haven't shot that rifle in years, due to the poor accuracy. Thanks,Frank

[skeettx]

Almost :) Skeettx

Yes, a correct mould will fill the bill,
You could lap out a Lee mold or some other
brand to give you 460 or 461 and give it a try
Mike

[bigted]

Yes I get that. Prolly lack of sleep and poor judgment on my part. Of coarse these are a different animal and easy for me to forget folks do not know the difference between the two.

Thankyou friend, for keeping this old fart aware of everybody.

[samari46]

Too darn hot to do any casting right now. Got the whole house generator installed and test run, now waiting for the propane company to install the tank. Weed whacker time. Plan B when the old gas powered 6kw gen developed a gas leak and rope broke had it sent out to get fixed. So regardless if Dorian heads towards Louisiana at least I'll have some lights and the food won't go bad. Still I did stock up on spam, peanut butter,tuna fish, and other goodies. As the man said "prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Good luck to those in the path of Dorian. Stay safe. Frank