.44-40 Vs .45LC in Current Winchester 1873

[CamoWhamo]

I already own a current production (ie. Miroku) Winchester 1873 with pistol grip and 24" octagonal barrel in .44-40. It is my favorite firearm and is by far the one i shoot the most.
My rifle has a .430 bore but the chamber is tight so i can't load bullets larger than .430 or i will get problems with the rounds being hard to chamber.
Finding a bullet that works well at .430 and dies that can handle the larger projectile has been a challenge but I've finally found a combination that works well. I'm using a combination of dies and tools from Redding, NOE, Lee, Hornady and Lyman to make the ammo.
I've settled on the Accurate Molds 43-220C in front of Unique and when i'm shooting well i can blot out the 10 ring on the target at 50m.

An opportunity as come up to purchase an identical rifle in .45LC for a great price. I don't need another rifle but i'm a curious beast and the price is right.

What are the pro's and cons of the .45LC over the .44-40.
Is it any easier to cast and load for?
My main usage is 50m and 100m paper targets.

Here's a pic of my .44-40.
246668

[missionary5155]

Good morning and greetings from our side of the Big Blue.
The 45 Colt will give the opportunity of firing much heavier cast. Plus bigger holes are always better on game.
They both load easily. Yes we load for both. Our 45 Colt Winchester (jap) feeds most cast well. Every now and then a wad cutter type gets snagged on the flat shoulder if the shooter is a bit lazy on the leer.
Caliber .45 slugs are easy to cast. Just use more lead for those over 200- 220 grains which is what we shoot in our 44 WF rifles.
So me... I bought our 45 Colt because "it was a good deal". No regrets !
Mike in LLama Land

[Randy Bohannon]

I have a Miroku 92 in 45 Colt,the chamber is large and I have no problem getting a 300 gr. .456” bullet to fit and it shoots very well with 19 grs. iMR 4227. BTW I am using my Buffalo Arms custom expander for my 45 cal BPCR guns to expand 45 Colt brass to fit the chamber. Obviously using such a load in the 73 would not be good fo longevity I would start with the fattest bullet of my desired weight and alloy that chambers. Good candidate rifle for some top notch B/P loads.

[veeman]

Go with the 44-40, cuz that's what it's supposed to be.

[Texas by God]

What a nice rifle. I am biased towards the 44WCF but the .45LC is easier to load. If your .44 will work with the .430"s in unsized cases(with crimp)- you are golden. But by all means buy the .45 too. Those Ubertis are wonderful.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Outpost75]

I don't know about Oz, but in the states .45 Colt brass is plentiful and cheap. The .44-40 less so, although the Starline brass is readily available and of better quality and slightly heavier than Remington, Winchester or Magtech.

The .44-40 cases are more fragile and there is a learning curve to loading the .44-40. Most of the difficulties newbies experience are mitigated by slowing down, paying attention to what you are doing and being sure to seat and crimp bullets in separate operations.

I like the .44-40 mostly for nostalgia. The .45 Colt was not used in rifles until the modern era.

[JoeJames]

I am pleased with the Oregon Trail laser cast 240 grain swc's in .431". Works best for me with my Rossi R92 44 Magnum. The .429" and the .430" sized 240's tend to keyhole.

[smkummer]

For cowboy action when one fires at least 60 rounds through the rifle and 60 in the handguns, 45 Colt is by far the favorite with the 44/45 shooters as it loads with no lube carbide dies on progressive presses. And one can load 200 grain RF bullets in 45 colt as well.

[Savvy Jack]

I already own a current production (ie. Miroku) Winchester 1873 with pistol grip and 24" octagonal barrel in .44-40. It is my favorite firearm and is by far the one i shoot the most.
My rifle has a .430 bore so finding a bullet that works well and dies that can handle the larger projectile has been a challenge.

Simple: Purchase 200gr .431/2 Laser Cast "Magma" design bullets from Oregon Trail or whoever sells them - https://www.oregontrailbullet.com/shop/laser-cast/44-Cal-200g-RNFP-431-p104526384

Use RCBS "Cowboy" Dies with the larger diameter bullets. Roll crimp or use a LFCD. Problem solved. However, the LFCD is for .427/8 diameter bullets. Using it on .430 bullets could leave collet gap marks on the case mouth.


What are the pro's and cons of the .45LC over the .44-40.
45 Pro...good for lazy handloaders. Components could be more plentiful.
45 Con...chamber will not seal if using black powder unless, maybe, you anneal the brass.
44-40 Pro - Can use 23.5gr of Reloder 7 with a 240gr bullet and stay lower than 11,000psi @ 10% to 20% greater performance than a 200gr and still get over 1,200fps

Is it any easier to cast and load for?
Casting should be the same but using more lead if casting 250's. For the 44-40s, purchase custom molds from Accurate Molds in many different flavors...actually for both 45 and 44-40

My main usage is 50m and 100m paper targets.

For the 73', a caseload of Reloder 7 with a 200gr bullet will give you 1,300fps with great accuracy, pending your mileage may very, @ only less than 14,000psi with 220gr lead bullets.

Automatic Download 44-40 Loads File Link
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0907a5_c520dedcfc684929833547dd16453be3.xlsx?dn=Pr essureResults.xlsx

[Outpost75]

^^^What Savvy Jack said.^^^

[bigted]

Little late to the game here. Allow me to relay my sperience with my Japchester 45 Colt model of '73'. Barrel length is a very handy 16 inch. Carbine butt.

I load between 37 sometimes to 40 grains other times. These loads are with Old E powder in 2F granulation

My loads are such;
... unsized (fireformed to chamber)mix of Remington and Starline brass.
... flaired mouth with a RCBS flairing die just enough to start my boolits.
... prime the cleaned brass with CCI large pistol primers (mag not needed).
... droptube 40 grains powder into the preped cases.
... I compress my powder instead of trying to compress with the boolit.
... my boolits are 454260 from Tom at Accurate Molds, I lube with SPG in the big lube groove boolit.
... i seat these boolits and ensure there is no air under the boolit which push's the boolit off the compressed powder.
... next I crimp these in the crimp groove.
... now I take a rag and wipe all the lube off the boolit and loaded case.

These shoot very accurately in my 2nd gen cavalry model Colt as well as my short model 73. These are so clean that I had to check to see if I somehow replaced them with either trailboss or unique loads ... but nope ... you know when you touch these off. Very fun and super accurate.

They expand and seal the chamber of my rifle. Absolutely nothing in the action just a small sooting on the lifter block ... easily wiped clean.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Don't own a '73 but my Win '94 in 45LC is thumper ! Unlike the '73 it can be loaded to low 45-70 power levels with 300 plus gr bullets. At the '73 level loads it a dream to shoot an accurate as hell!

[Randy Bohannon]

We’re talking modern 1873’s in 44-40 WCF here not 94’s in 45 Colt, so what did you add to our edification ?

[sandog]

I have always like the .44 WCF as it feeds slicker than snot and even light loads seal the chamber well.
The case mouth is a bit more fragile so I always seat and crimp separately.
Sucks that your .44 has such a big (.430") bore. I always used .428" bullets by Meister.

I had a Marlin Cowboy in .38/55 and it also needed fatter bullets to shoot well, but then those fatter bullets barely chambered. I recall putting each loaded round into the sizing die a short way, "bumping them down". It didn't seem to hurt accuracy and they chambered much easier.

As much as I like .44/40 in a rifle, I haven't had revolvers in that caliber do as well. So lately my levergun/revolver pairs have been in .45 Colt.

[Savvy Jack]

Manufactures are just as ignorant...(or just don't give a damn)...of the 44-40 as is the consumer.

44-40 SAAMI spec chambers combined with 44 Special/Magnum barrels are a poor combination for the rifle BUT even worse for the revolver. Once the Consumer understands these "inaccuracies" as a part of a nine part multifaceted SAGA, he will be well on his way to obtaining a very accurate and powerful weapon.

44-40 (Typically 200gr to 217gr)
.427...original bores as small as .424. 44-40 manufactured bullets are .4255 to .426 jacketed bullets by Winchester and Remington (44-40 Profile Bullets). Lead bullets much the same. Early and modern Lyman cast bullets are .427, smaller or larger pending lead mix. Small Ogive radius to prevent touching the rifling when chambered in old tight chamber firearms (44-40 Profile Bullets).


44 Special/Magnum
.429...typically .429-431 bullets both lead and jacketed. Many weights and designs. Most O'give designs can not be used in older original 44-40 firearms without the bullet touching the rife lands when chambered. NOT 44-40 Profile bullets.

44-40 "Modern Day Shooting" by: Ed Harris
PART 1 https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44centerfire/ancient-history-pt-1
PART 2 https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44centerfire/ancient-history-pt-2

All current 44-40 cartridge commercial manufactures use 44-40 profile bullets with the exception of a few like Buffalo Bore. Winchester will not even sell their lead cowboy (swaged) bullets as a loading component. Buffalo Bore uses a commercial grade 200gr cast bullet cast from a "Magma" mold from Magma Engineering. http://www.magmaengineering.com/magma-custom-bullet-molds/. They have WARNINGS on their 44-40 ammunition about using such ammo in older guns. The MAGMA cast bullets are called many different names from commercial casters like "Cowboy" and "Desperado".

Many so called 44-40 bullets are not true 44-40 bullets and do not carry the 44-40 bullet design "Profile". They are .429 or larger 200gr 44 Special bullets that can also be used in the 44 Magnum which are to be used in the larger bore barrels. Hence, 44 Special/Magnum barrels being used on 44-40 firearms.

When the shooter/handloader truly understands these inaccuracies and misconceptions, the 44-40 Firearm's true strengths and weaknesses......the 44-40 Cartridge's true strengths and weaknesses...the 44-40 is a cartridge not to be reckoned with!!!

[Hootmix]

Ditto !! Ditto !!,, .

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Randy Bohannon
As former New Yorker I take offense to your remark. So how is the Communist state ! Surprised you still have your guns! I was just saying a 45LC even in the weak '73 action is a fine round! Easily out preforms the 44/40!

[Savvy Jack]

Randy Bohannon
I was just saying a 45LC even in the weak '73 action is a fine round! Easily out preforms the 44/40!

I do believe you are missing some vital information!!

[Bent Ramrod]

Buffalo, Wyoming has nothing to do with Buffalo, New York.


Ever. :mrgreen: (*rim-shot*)


But I have to say that if I was getting a traditional lever action repeater, I’d go for the traditional .44 caliber. I have SA revolvers in both calibers, but I find myself shooting the .45 Colt ones more often than the .44-40s.

But I don’t compete in SASS; I’m more into “the Experience.”

[Gunnut 45/454]

Savvy Jack
And what info would that be? The 44-40 is no where close in capability of the 45 LC. I don't think I've seen any 300 gr load for the 44-40? Now we re talking about a '73 action. So with the 44-40 or 45LC we are limited to 1200-1300 fps! There are many 45LC loads with 300 plus gr bullets you can run through a '73 action an stay with in the Max pressure curve ! Do you have 300 plus gr loads for the 44-40? Never shot one! I'm sure its a fun cartridge to shoot. Sorry I've been a 45LC guy for to long! Will always be!

[Savvy Jack]

yeap, 44 300gr that pushes 800ft lbs of energy but I will not post the load data...even for the 73' Animal doesnt care if the bullet is 800 or 900ft lbs of energy, dead is dead

Even a load of 23.5gr of Reloder 7 with a 240gr @ 12,000cup is safe for the 73' and produces 1,250fps @ 833ft lbs.....and that is a published load.

[Savvy Jack]

247992
Unique powder data label date 1935

Notice the load data for 44-40 revolver and a 250gr bullet! Also notice the chamber pressure produced. It is irrelevant of the load itself but what is important is the consistency of the chamber pressures once published. 15,000cup to 16,000cup revolver/rifle rather than the neutered SAAMI max of 13,000cup of today. Even though, most all commercial ammunition manufactures load a max advertised of 12,000cup but is certainly lower than that by at least 5%-10%. And folks can't understand why the 44-40 ammunition of today sucks!
Use this information at your own risk

[indian joe]

Interesting argument here - two blackpowder rounds
Same case capacity = 40 grains tops - same Length case - one calibre size different - diferences in boolit weight and velocity counteract each other and fall squarely into the "so what" category.

the colt round adapted to rifles suffers more downside - sloppy chambers in order to feed - poor extraction because of skinny rimsize - gunk in the action from powder blowby

than the winchester round adapted to pistols - rim size makes some conversions more difficult but the upside of that is more meat in the cylinder to acomodate the cartridge.

This is a political argument rather than one of effectiveness. (fun to watch tho)

[Savvy Jack]

Interesting argument here - two blackpowder rounds
Same case capacity = 40 grains tops - same Length case - one calibre size different - diferences in boolit weight and velocity counteract each other and fall squarely into the "so what" category.

the colt round adapted to rifles suffers more downside - sloppy chambers in order to feed - poor extraction because of skinny rimsize - gunk in the action from powder blowby

than the winchester round adapted to pistols - rim size makes some conversions more difficult but the upside of that is more meat in the cylinder to acomodate the cartridge.

This is a political argument rather than one of effectiveness. (fun to watch tho)


Yeap!

[Wayne Smith]

Yup, and I chose the 44-40 simply because historically (that's important to me, not to everybody) it is the most likely choice. The 45 Colt was never chambered in rifles. I shoot my 44-40 with a full case of FFG and a 200 gr MAV big lube boolit.

Seems to me if you want full power go to the 44Mag or the 500 S&W. If you want to compete you will want the least recoil and are likely to go to the 38Special. Decide your purpose and let that determine your choice.

Historically the Army used the 45 S&W and the 45-70 rifle, to be simple. Civilians could choose between the 44 American, the 44 Russian, the 44-40, the 45 Colt, the 45 S&W, and later the 38 S&W. Of these I believe that only the 44-40 was chambered in both rifles and revolvers. The next cartridge that was chambered in both was the 38-40, a necked down 44-40, and then the 32-20.

The above is off the top of my head and will have mistakes, but my purpose is the same. Historically the Army never had pistols and rifles chambered the same. For the rest of us it was the 44-40, the 38-40, and the 32-20 if you wanted a rifle and pistol chambered the same. Somehow I doubt that was the critical issue back then, what was available in the store and the available money probably drove every choice. That's why the shotgun was the most common firearm in the western expansion. Simply practical.

[Bigslug]

Seems that the problem back then was the rims on the old .45 Colt cases. Does not seem to be an issue now.

Seems like the problem today is wading through the dimensional issues surrounding the construction of .44-40 ammo. Not likely a major hurdle for somebody who's been doing this a spell and has mics, calipers, and pin gauges galore, but based on what Saavy Jack is laying down, it would appear to be a lousy choice for Junior's First Reloading Project.

As far as performance of both cartridges loaded for an 1873? Flip a coin.

[Savvy Jack]

, but based on what Saavy Jack is laying down, it would appear to be a lousy choice for Junior's First Reloading Project.

Nah, it aint all that bad. If all someone wants to do is hit still targets at 25 yards with a modern firearm...Starline brass, .429 200gr Magma and 6.5gr of Trailboss is a beginner's dream!
For a beginner in reloading, a single stage press with RCBS Cowboy Dies....will have to learn as ya go!

[Wayne Smith]

And it will teach a beginner to be careful with the brass, as well!

[Gunnut 45/454]

Savvy Jack
Sloppy chambers? Really I haven't seen that problem in my firearms! My '94 shoots great with .452" sized bullets ! Brass sizes nicely - heck I've been using the same brass for 10 years plus! Not one split case or worn out primer pocket yet! And I've used some heavy loads over the years! Can you say that with those 44-40's? Now the brass is Win and Rem with some Buffalo Bore.

[CamoWhamo]

Savvy Jack
Sloppy chambers? Really I haven't seen that problem in my firearms!

Certainly, in the .45LC model 92's made by Miroku the chambers are somewhat oval shaped to facilitate reliable feeding.
I have seen this on 2 different rifles and read a few anecdotal reports of it here as well.

I believe the Miroku built 1873's in .45LC doesn't have it because the feed is more of a straight line.

My 92 and 1873 in .44-40 both have a round chamber.

I don't think Miroku made any 94's in pistol calibers. Any 94's in pistol cals were made in the USA.

[Savvy Jack]

Savvy Jack
Sloppy chambers? Really I haven't seen that problem in my firearms! My '94 shoots great with .452" sized bullets ! Brass sizes nicely - heck I've been using the same brass for 10 years plus! Not one split case or worn out primer pocket yet! And I've used some heavy loads over the years! Can you say that with those 44-40's? Now the brass is Win and Rem with some Buffalo Bore.

why yes, yes I can. By "sloppy" I mean a little oversize. 44-40 cases freshly shot in the Marlin just barely won't chamber in my revolver cylinders IF using heavy loads. The 44-40 is a wildchild when it comes to how folks, manufactures, size the chambers and bore. THUS was the exact problem Ruger had with their revolvers. Normal SAAMI spec chambers with oversized barrels with 44 magnum bores.

I have been loading the 44-40 in ways that would make liberal millennial shooter's heads explode during some tests I made. My testing barrel was cut to original 44-40 specs. The problem is not the 44-40 itself but the manufactures not being consistent which adds fuel to the fire when talking bad about the 44-40 as you just did.

As I have posted several times in various forums, I have been loading my brass for over ten years myself with only a few splits. It would appear you obviously have not been following my posts. If you would like to catch up, you can start here: https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44centerfire

[GBertolet]

I had sooty cases from my Marlin 45 Colt. Adjusting the sizer to just size down the top 3/8" of the case, enough to grip the bullet, fixed this issue for me. Could load many times before FL sizing needed.

[indian joe]

Jack - a couple more votes for the 44/40
Back in the Day when I used to buy some ammo for the 44/40 I always liked the Dominion brand – way better than Winchester or Remington/Peters at the time,
Cleaning out some old stuff a few days back and found an original Dominion packet of 20 rounds, claimed velocity on the pack is 1310FPS maybe that explains it.

Some chrono tests over the last few years (RCBS chrono at 20 feet from muzzle)
Rifle is a 1970’s vintage Uberti 66 Brass Frame, 24inch barrel

This has been my normal paper killing load
35 grains 5FA Goex (1990 vintage powder) 225 grain CBE lead = 1168 FPS
35 grains Wano PPP (Scheutzen?) ……...225 grain CBE lead = 1050 FPS

Bit less lead, bit more powder, the 44/40 can sing with black if we want
39 grains Willow Blackpowder ……………200 grain LEE lead = 1339 FPS
40 grains Willow Blackpowder …………….200 grain RCBS lead =1355 FPS

[Savvy Jack]

I will leave the name of the person out for now but I will just leave this here for a while.


[200 meters] The group on the left was shot two days ago and is 21.4 gr. of RL-7 under the Accurate 43-245 GC bullet. (Weighs 250 gr. in 1:30) Brand new cases with no crimp. It shot 6 in 4 4/16” H x 4 1/16 wide or: Group measured 4.25”. 4 mph. wind was blowing at 3:00 and I turned it 1.5 MOA into the wind but that wasn’t enough. Didn’t chronograph that load but they have been running in the 1270s with temps in the low 90s.

250gr @ 1275fps = 903ft lbs of energy @ the muzzle from a 44-40. I doubt seriously 21.4gr of Reloder 7 and a 250gr lead bullet would be dangerous in the 73' but we'll just let the lay right there for now.

[indian joe]

I will leave the name of the person out for now but I will just leave this here for a while.



250gr @ 1275fps = 903ft lbs of energy @ the muzzle from a 44-40. I doubt seriously 21.4gr of Reloder 7 and a 250gr lead bullet would be dangerous in the 73' but we'll just let the lay right there for now.

Your low pressure read with Re7 loads has had me scratchin my head for a good while - I dont have any facility to pressure test - do have a good solid 92 that would likely take anything i wanted to shoot in it - eons ago I chose RE7 as the best bet for a 375 BigBore I had at the time, 38 grain under a 220 grain GC, that thing got yr attention.
In deference to my brass frame 66 I have mostly stayed away from smokeless 44/40 loads - just in case one got mixed. I like shooting the black stuff, two bucks a pound for the makings, and those velocities I posted above makes it no slouch - I am a happy camper !

[Gunnut 45/454]

Well I guess that's a Japanese Winchester problem! As my '94 is one of the last year production from American Winchester! Or a true Winchester! As are my two Marlins- real Marlins ! I do have two foreign made Levers a Puma 454 Casull and a very new to me Pedersoli 1886 . Both of there chambers are just fine! And considering the price one has to pay for a Miroko Winchester I wouldn't put up with any defect such as a oversized chamber! They'd be sending me a correct rifle or my money back period! None of my Levers have weird bore sizes either! All are correct for the calibers they are.

[indian joe]

Well I guess that's a Japanese Winchester problem! As my '94 is one of the last year production from American Winchester! Or a true Winchester! As are my two Marlins- real Marlins ! I do have two foreign made Levers a Puma 454 Casull and a very new to me Pedersoli 1886 . Both of there chambers are just fine! And considering the price one has to pay for a Miroko Winchester I wouldn't put up with any defect such as a oversized chamber! They'd be sending me a correct rifle or my money back period! None of my Levers have weird bore sizes either! All are correct for the calibers they are.

I think you miss the point - its not a problem as in poor manufacturing - its deliberate design to overcome the unsuitability of the short, fat, straight wall case, and make these guns run poperly.
As for the 94 - designed around a case half as long again - the whole thing is a bodgy setup - if yours works thats great - twas never meant to be so and is a typical last ditch marketing excercise undertaken by a company in its financial deaththroes.
Like I said a few posts ago any diference between 45 colt and 44/40 (the original thread I think?) is a political argument rather than one of effectiveness.

[Savvy Jack]

Your low pressure read with Re7 loads has had me scratchin my head for a good while - I dont have any facility to pressure test - do have a good solid 92 that would likely take anything i wanted to shoot in it - eons ago I chose RE7 as the best bet for a 375 BigBore I had at the time, 38 grain under a 220 grain GC, that thing got yr attention.
In deference to my brass frame 66 I have mostly stayed away from smokeless 44/40 loads - just in case one got mixed. I like shooting the black stuff, two bucks a pound for the makings, and those velocities I posted above makes it no slouch - I am a happy camper !

Absolutely, there is no substitute for the black powder loads, love it myself. My endeavor with the smokeless, based on what many people say about it....myths of how poor it became after the advent of smokeless... came to prove that the 44-40 was just as powerful and accurate with certain smokeless powders as it is with black powder when loaded correctly.

I love popping my head into the gun range sometimes on a crowded Saturday, full of millennials. They see my old 1891 Marlin and snicker under their envious smile. Then when they hear that black powder load go off, all heads turn to look....then the "ding" at 265 yards...the jaws hit the ground. Dead is dead no matter if it's a 1/4" group or a 12" group when it finds it's mark!

[Larry Gibson]

I shoot the 44-40 and the 45 Colt in 20" barreled carbines. The 44-40 is in a Cimarron Chiappa M92 and the 45 Colt is in a Cimarron Uberti M73. I Have shot BP in the 45 Colt but it is not what I prefer to use. My preference has been to develop accurate smokeless powder loads using 200 to 240 gr bullets in the 44-40 and 200 to 235 gr bullets in the 45 Colt at 1050 - 1150 fps. I have done that with both and am quite pleased with the results.

I have settled on using the Lee TL429-240-SWC over 700X in the 44-40 at 1060 fps and the Lee 452-230-TC in the 45 Colt over 700X at 1075 fps. Both loads run less than 15,000 psi (measured). Both loads shoot as accurately as I can given the sights and my old eyes. I have stretched the 44-40 to 400 yards quite successfully as it has a rear sight capable. The 45 Colt is very accurate out to 200 yards which is the extent of rear sight adjustment. I have stretched it further using holdover though.

Don't often disagree with Savvy Jack but "Dead is dead no matter if it's a 1/4" group or a 12" group when it finds it's mark!" is correct only when the mark is hit and hitting the mark is certainly easier with the 1/4" group and much more consistent, especially at the longer ranges and that "when" can take a lot more shots with the 12" group........

[Froogal]

For cowboy action when one fires at least 60 rounds through the rifle and 60 in the handguns, 45 Colt is by far the favorite with the 44/45 shooters as it loads with no lube carbide dies on progressive presses. And one can load 200 grain RF bullets in 45 colt as well.

In cowboy action, the .45 rifle is not really correct because it did not exist pre 1900. The 44-40 IS correct. Having said that, I'll admit to owning and shooting a .45, and so far I have not been told I can't.

[Froogal]

Yup, and I chose the 44-40 simply because historically (that's important to me, not to everybody) it is the most likely choice. The 45 Colt was never chambered in rifles. I shoot my 44-40 with a full case of FFG and a 200 gr MAV big lube boolit.

Seems to me if you want full power go to the 44Mag or the 500 S&W. If you want to compete you will want the least recoil and are likely to go to the 38Special. Decide your purpose and let that determine your choice.

Historically the Army used the 45 S&W and the 45-70 rifle, to be simple. Civilians could choose between the 44 American, the 44 Russian, the 44-40, the 45 Colt, the 45 S&W, and later the 38 S&W. Of these I believe that only the 44-40 was chambered in both rifles and revolvers. The next cartridge that was chambered in both was the 38-40, a necked down 44-40, and then the 32-20.

The above is off the top of my head and will have mistakes, but my purpose is the same. Historically the Army never had pistols and rifles chambered the same. For the rest of us it was the 44-40, the 38-40, and the 32-20 if you wanted a rifle and pistol chambered the same. Somehow I doubt that was the critical issue back then, what was available in the store and the available money probably drove every choice. That's why the shotgun was the most common firearm in the western expansion. Simply practical.

THANK YOU for that info.

[Savvy Jack]

Don't often disagree with Savvy Jack but "Dead is dead no matter if it's a 1/4" group or a 12" group when it finds it's mark!" is correct only when the mark is hit and hitting the mark is certainly easier with the 1/4" group and much more consistent, especially at the longer ranges and that "when" can take a lot more shots with the 12" group........

LOL, thanks!!!

That statement needs explanation but if the point of aim at 200 yards is always center and the groups extend only 6" in any direction from center...it is certainly a dead deer at least. Maybe miss a fox, coyote or groundhog but..........I shoot for food not sport, but not to have to survive. Never did have a need to word off unwanted animals...however...if my farm (if I had one) depended on it, I would certainly own and shoot a .308 or some other form of exotic caliber at least to ward off unwanted guests.

Now back to the 44-40 vs 45 Colt, 44-40 is certainly better at longer distances?