STI Saboted Hammerhead vs. Hog

[Ranch Dog]

This fellow has been coming by my one of my protein feeders on an every other night interval.


https://youtu.be/xmmTHPqrpyI

I set up for him by putting a Boar Light near the feeder. I wasn't sure exactly how he was getting to the feeder, but got very lucky. He walked past me off to the left about 15-yards, moving very slowly last night. To rotate to shoot him would have been a mistake, he was moving toward the feeder which sits where a finger of brush blends into native grasses. I started searching the edge of the brush in the moonlight with field glasses, and picked him up, walking along the side of the grass. Brought the 512 up, he was easy to see in the moonlight against the blond colored native grass. He was heading to the feeder, but that is 125-yards from where I was sitting, and a 50-yard shot sure seemed better. The shot was in ambient moonlight, no lights, with just the Weaver low power scope.

Of course, at the shot, it takes a bit to recover your night vision. As that happened, I moved forward through the grass, a bit tense because of the rattlesnakes, at a 10-yards, he stood up and moved away from me slowly. I looked like he went down again, but I just left him until this morning.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Hunting/2019/hog_081019.jpg

Shot placement was poor, that is one problem with night hunting. At the shot, I remember thinking he wasn't as big as he looked when he was off to the side. He wasn't as big in the night's two-dimensional view (height and width without depth) because he had turned, quartering to me. I shot him ahead of the near side shoulder, and Hammerhead enter, shattering the opposite side leg, leaving a huge wound channel. The Hammerhead stayed inside, couldn't find it, but it buggered him up. Typical to a hog shot low, there is not much to go on.

I should have waited longer, but it was in the '90s and I was tired. Had I not got him up, he might have died there. My hound found him 450-yards from where I shot him. My dog has learned to work on blood and the scent of blood, too many critters out here to work on body odor. He found very light blood where it had been laying, made sure I looked at it, and then started slowly out the trail. There was never any more visible blood that he could show me. Thank you, Laurel! I love this hound!

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Hunting/2019/hog_hound.jpg

[jmort]

Fantastic
Loaded on your MEC Slugger no doubt

[Ranch Dog]

Fantastic
Loaded on your MEC Slugger no doubt
Thank you! Actually, loaded on my vintage Lee Load-All Junior.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Reloading/Lee/loadall_jr/images/load-all_jr_06.jpg

The MEC does not like with wide meplat of the Hammerhead, it cannot complete the folded roll.

[NyFirefighter357]

Are you still using the same data from this post? http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?371566-Sabot-Technologies I need to put a list together to feed my 512's. I added a 1lb mercury recoil suppressor to my first 512 after getting beat up sighting it in. The second one I haven't shot since my buddy bought it new. He gave up on the recoil and went to the Savage 220 and I grabbed it $150. We had set it up just like mine so I basically have 2 of the same including the same Nikon ProStaff scope.
I've taken plenty of deer with mine.

https://i.imgur.com/KG1ykQel.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

Thank you! Actually, loaded on my vintage Lee Load-All Junior.
I misspoke, I use the Load-All with the STI. I drop the powder charge with the Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure.


Are you still using the same data from this post? http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?371566-Sabot-Technologies I need to put a list together to feed my 512's.
Ugh, that topic got lead off into the roll vs. star thing. Here are the components: Cheddite 3" Hull STI Saboted Hammerhead 39.8-grains of Blue Dot Six-Star folded crimp
The groups started coming together with the Blue Dot, that powder really tightened the groups up.


I added a 1lb mercury recoil suppressor to my first 512 after getting beat up sighting it in. The second one I haven't shot since my buddy bought it new. He gave up on the recoil and went to the Savage 220 and I grabbed it $150. We had set it up just like mine so I basically have 2 of the same including the same Nikon ProStaff scope.
I've taken plenty of deer with mine.

https://i.imgur.com/KG1ykQel.jpg
Those are some sweat "rifles"! I do like the Marlin, and it is definitely a bench rifle. I'm going to start using my Lead Sled for the benchwork as I've had some problems with my left eye from the recoil. That's what the eye doc is telling me. I do not notice the recoil in the field.

[NyFirefighter357]

I'm sorry, I have a few questions:
What weight are those slugs? The sabot stays attached? If so the weight of both would be fine.

What sabot are you using, doesn't look like the Sabot Pressure Wad.

What are you using under the sabot?

What alloy are you using?

Am I on the right track with these?
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2483

http://slugsrus.com/sc/order.cgi?rd=1&storeid=*14894a21aa4850321c011be9&sbid=SSMSB13105351661069110794.25458&redirect=yes

I only have a MEC loader.

Thanks, Jason

[Ranch Dog]

I'm sorry, I have a few questions:
What weight are those slugs? The sabot stays attached? If so the weight of both would be fine.
No reason to be sorry, like others, I love talking about shooting!

The sabot pressure wad, the Z12-SPW, weighs 75-grains. The last batch of Hammerheads I cast from a 6:4, linotype/wheel weight alloy, weighed 400-grains. So the total weight of sabot and Hammerhead core was 475-grains.

The Hammerhead core and sabot go together. At impact, the sabot stays behind, and the core continues.


What sabot are you using, doesn't look like the Sabot Pressure Wad.

It is the Z12-SPW via this link (http://slugsrus.com/12-GA-SPW.html).


What are you using under the sabot?
Nothing, but the powder charge is under the sabot pressure wad.


What alloy are you using?
I can cast with just about any alloy, have them all on hand or the ability to mix the properties to come up with a clone. I used the linotype based alloy to raise the BHN with the large hogs in mind, thinking that the harder alloy would drive on through the hog's tough shield. I think I shot myself in the foot doing this because of what happens to the diameter of cast object with harder alloys, it increases. I believe the body diameter of my Hammerheads delayed sabot separation; hence, penetration. The key point I missed was that I needed the assistance of a K&M Arbor Press to get the cores fully seated in the sabot.

This week, I will cast my next batch of Hammerheads.and I will use plumbers lead with a little bit of tin to help with the definition of the core. This alloy should provide a better diameter for the core to mate with and depart from the sabot pressure wad.


Am I on the right track with these?
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2483
Yeah, that will work. I've been buying them from BPI, but they have the 16mm brass. Honestly, the 25mm on these should make loading the magazine of the 512 easier to charge. With the 16mm base, the top of the brass is right where you start to slide the next shell under the lips of the magazine. The rim of the shell being place hangs up on the top edge of the brass of the shell already in the magazine.


http://slugsrus.com/sc/order.cgi?rd=1&storeid=*14894a21aa4850321c011be9&sbid=SSMSB13105351661069110794.25458&redirect=yes
Yep, that is the mold.


I only have a MEC loader.
You did not say MEC Slugger, so I take it this is the standard 600 Jr. press? Sabot Technologies says to use a rolled crimp, but a six-star folded crimp has always shot better, MOA vs. MOA, with the folded crimp from my shooting. If your loader can deliver the folded crimp on a 3" hull, you are good to go.

[Ranch Dog]

Yeah, that will work. I've been buying them from BPI, but they have the 16mm brass. Honestly, the 25mm on these should make loading the magazine of the 512 easier to charge. With the 16mm base, the top of the brass is right where you start to slide the next shell under the lips of the magazine. The rim of the shell being place hangs up on the top edge of the brass of the shell already in the magazine.
Jason, I'm going to test my theory on the 16mm vs. 25mm brass with the Marlin 512. I placed a Grafs order, thank you for the link.

[NyFirefighter357]

I've only used factory rounds that were all full brass. I started with a BRI slug then Winchester bought them used them they were a great slug wish we could load them. Then went to Federal Barnes sabots until Hornady changed the rules with the Hornady SST's sabots, I like the point blank range of the SST's I've used them ever since. Hornady used the S&W 500 300gr SST pistol bullet until they developed the FTX bullet. Now the Hornady SST slug is really a Hornady FTX. The deer didn't seem to know the difference.
I always had a problem when loading 2 in the mag & one in the chamber when I went to chamber the second round it wouldn't come up into the feed ramp. I found a NOS Marlin 55 magazine on clearance at the LGS for $12 the problem went away. The 512 mag is hard to find and expensive if you do. The Marlin/Glenfield 50 & 55 mags say 2 3/4" only but they are the same mag. Numrich also shows they are interchangeable.
A lot of guys don't like them because they are heavy & kick like a mule. I don't feel it shooting at game & I usually stand hunt so the weight doesn't bother me either. Now that the failure to feed has stopped my only issue is the bolt working it's way up. I just made it a habit to check to make sure it is seated.
I don't hunt much anymore as I don't have the time. My hunting club guys are always trying to get me up to the property. I decided to go and my son wanted to come I knew he wasn't going to last long but that was fine, we only stayed an hour. Because of that my daughter wanted to go so I told her I'd find time, knowing it would be the same deal. Sure enough she lasted about the same amount. Having not hunted or shot in 2-3 years & it being close enough to the end of the season & wanting to show off, I saw a squirrel down the hill about 50yrds I decided I'd take a shot at it. It's sighted in dead on at 150yrds using a 2x7 Nikon Prostaff scope. Not wanting to damage the meat I wanted to take a head shot but had to figure the angle, distance and figure in the 2.5" high at 50yrds. I took the head clean off, these guns are that accurate. Besides it's always a good story to remind her to tell her boyfriend if I ever allow that to happen. lol
I've never used the MEC but yes it's a 600 JR. I'll ask the expert that gave me the press if it will fold the 3" if not I'll go back to your old post & get into the roll crimp debate. lol

Thank you, Jason

[W.R.Buchanan]

Some addition info here.

My STI slugs cast from wheel weights end up at 490 gr. I run them in new Rio hulls from BPI with 22-23 gr of Unique for about 1200-1300 fps. These are 2 3/4" hulls as they get shot in my Browning A5 with Hastings Rifled Barrel with a 2 3/4" chamber. We discussed the 2 3/4" versus 3" chamber in the other thread and both me and Michael feel it is critical for accuracy to load 3" hulls for 3" chambers.

MY STI Sabots with my Brass Inserts have a longer nose on them and weigh in at 550 gr and get the same treatment as the others by closing the loaded hull with a roll crimp. I have three different Roll Crimp Tools now and the one that consistently works the best is the BPI tool ran at 200-250 rpms .

Side Note: The shank on the STI Hammerhead insert measures .505, and I make my brass inserts the same size and that yields a .005 press fit into the sabot which has to expand to accommodate the larger shank and provides a good tight fit that shouldn't separate on impact.(remains to be seen?) The nose is longer and thus there is more weight forward. I also have the capability to HP those brass inserts and do a variety of cuts and other things to make them open up or even come apart.

My loaded Non Toxic Sabots look like the photo below and shoot really well from the A5. Those slugs at 1250 fps have a TKO of 72 which is above a 500 gr .458 WM at 70. The secret is the flat nosed large caliber slug dumping all it's energy instantly after impact and not completely penetrating the animal.

Michael: Pretty good lookin' dog you got there. Good to have a real buddy to go hunting with!

Randy

[NyFirefighter357]

Randy, I bet those would do a number on anything they hit.

[Markopolo]

maybe you could put a shooting platform on that purty Jeep you made??? then you could have Home made slugs comming from your home made Jeep...

my son suggested it. he wants to do it for logging road deer..

[W.R.Buchanan]

maybe you could put a shooting platform on that purty Jeep you made??? then you could have Home made slugs comming from your home made Jeep...

my son suggested it. he wants to do it for logging road deer..

I'll get right on that!

The Jeep got its A/C charged today and now I can drive around with A/C blowing on me. When I put the top on it will run me out! It works real good!

I'll hang the platform off the roof rack.

The Slugs will be available in Kit Form soon. Not cheap, but certainly effective.

Randy

[gpidaho]

Randy: Even at a few dollars each they would be the cheapest part of the hunt. Those look to me to be a very effective slug for those restricted to no-lead projectiles. Good for you, stepping up to fill a need. Gp

[Ranch Dog]

Randy, your projectiles are a work of art. Plain and simple!

I didn't get a chance to cast the Hammerheads today, nor powder coat the Accurate bullets.

Thanks also for recognizing an exceptional dog. I adopted Laurel from a shelter I volunteered at after hurricane Harvey. As people fled the coast, they realized that evacuation shelter were not taking animals. I've heard that our community had 1,000 booted out the door as they passed through. I can not fathom that course of action. I don't know his past, but he is the most relaxed operator in the field I've ever been around. I took him to where everything went down and explained what happened. He walked a semi-circle downwind and walked straight to the spot. Below is the only blood that Laurel found, we never saw another drop or I'm sure he would have found it.

http://ranchdogoutdoors.com/laurel/bloodtrail.jpg

He has a set manor that I now recognize and doesn't leave until I acknowledge the find. After that, he takes off at a slow walk as he knows there is a lot of bad stuff in our country.

[NyFirefighter357]

I know I'm crazy but what would you guys think of me using pewter or 95/5 solder? I even considered zinc/tin alloy. I want a lighter flatter flying projectile. If I use pewter or 95/5, I could scrub about 140gr off the total weight. Something that gave me 250-300gr plus the 75gr wad.

[longbow]

Hogtamer has cast zinc which is considerably lighter than lead. Zinc would likely be hard on an aluminum mould... and probably brass too but should be fine for iron mould.

Something to think about.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

"Zlugs" worked great in full bore from rifled gun, "Zamak3" which is 96% zinc and 4% aluminum cast in iron mold. Gotta know your groove size exactly cause that stuff ain't swaging to any barrel. Mine punch nice .731 holes in most anything launched near 1700 fps mv out of heavy ultra slug hunter. Mold that cast 775 gr in lead were 477 gr in the zinc alloy.

[centershot]

Hal, which mould did you use?

[Hogtamer]

Here is the one that Tom at Accurate made for me. Zinc needs no lube grooves but this was done to minimize bearing surface.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=73-770SU-D.png

[Apocalypse]

Dominion Arms in Canada offers (offered?) zinc 12 gauge 2 3/4" slugs. I don't know the loading, though have shot a few. Seemed to work just fine in my various smooth bore shotguns but not very good in a rifled 870.

[NyFirefighter357]

"Zlugs" worked great in full bore from rifled gun, "Zamak3" which is 96% zinc and 4% aluminum cast in iron mold. Gotta know your groove size exactly cause that stuff ain't swaging to any barrel. Mine punch nice .731 holes in most anything launched near 1700 fps mv out of heavy ultra slug hunter. Mold that cast 775 gr in lead were 477 gr in the zinc alloy.

If I came across a 20ga fully rifled barrel I'd use full bore Zlugs

[Ranch Dog]

Jason, I'm going to test my theory on the 16mm vs. 25mm brass with the Marlin 512. I placed a Grafs order, thank you for the link.
Jason, the 25mm base shells were made for the 512!

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/512/reloading/cheddite/512_magazine_16mm_base.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/512/reloading/cheddite/512_magazine_25mm_base.jpg

I also modified my load just a bit by using a ⅛" 20 Ga cork wad inside the sabot pressure's wad powder cup. I felt that the fold could be a bit "tighter," meaning that I needed a bit more stack in the hull. You have to have something hold the cork in place as the wad is pushed into the hull and it is hard to find something that sticks to either, just long enough to get it seated. A glue stick worked, and I have a very tight six-star crimp made with the Lee Load-All II. The clear hull on the left was my previous work, the star is just a little bit uneven.

http://ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/reloading/cheddite/cheddite_3_25-01.jpg

http://ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/sabot_tech/reloading/cheddite/cheddite_3_25-02.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

Michael: Have you tried just loading the 3" hulls normally and using a Long Roll Crimp to close the hull?

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

Michael: Have you tried just loading the 3" hulls normally and using a Long Roll Crimp to close the hull?
Yep, I have several roll crimpers. Hands down a six-crimp star deliver better MOA performance at 100-yards in both the Marlin and Mossberg 500. I have absolutely no plans to return to the roll crimp.

[NyFirefighter357]

I have a 3" die coming for the MEC Jr.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, I too had found it out early on the fold crimp gives better combustion and the accuracy was far better with fold crimp. Most of my loading and testing was with fold crimp.

I use to have two drill press with roll crimp just sitting there, still do.

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots