More Pedersoli 1885 High Wall 38-55

[Toymaker]

I have a really good smokeless powder load that's been tested to 200 yards (max available range) <3 inch group off the bench. BUT I'm having the devil of a time finding a black powder load equally as good. What I'm asking of the group is your loads. While I've found loads for other twists, etc. to be interesting I would appreciate responses limited to the factors I'm dealing with. Important information:

The barrel is 6 grooves, twist is 1:12 (checked, rechecked and confirmed), Length = 30 inches, Bore = 0.3725 inch (I have the necessary blocks and another shooter has confirmed 0.373 inch), Groove = 0.379 inch (again, checked and confirmed by another), Neck case region of chamber = 0.399 inch (chamber casting).
Bullets immediately available - Lyman 378-674, 1.312 inches long, 0.379 inch diameter as cast. BACO380-360 M4, 1.465 inches long, 0.380 inch diameter as cast.
Alloys - pure lead, 20:1, Lyman #2
Sizing dies - 0.379 inch and 0.380 inch
Lubes - SPG, Darr's, Terpstra's Special
Powders - Swiss 3Fg, Olde Eynsford 2Fg, Olde Eynsford 3Fg, Goex 2Fg, Goex 3Fg (anything else is available. I even have a can of Goex Cartridge.)
Primers - CCI Large Rifle preferred, Federal 210 available.

Cases - Starline, 2.125 inches, fire formed, trimmed, beveled and chamfered.

I found a wonderful article on the rifle by Dick Trenk with loads and exciting results. But when I tried to duplicate I found that you can't fit 52-53 grains (by weight) of Swiss 3Fg in a case and not compress the powder more than the recommended 0.06" limit. For that compression limit only 41.5 grains of Swiss 3Fg will fit.
I wipe between shots using the BACO VFG Bore Wipers soaked in Moose Milk.

So any help would be greatly appreciated. The smokeless load is fun, but I'd really like to get a BP load going. But I've tried so many combinations with inconsistent results that I'm just frustrating myself at this point. Thanks in advance.

[Gunlaker]

Do you have a copy of the Black Powder Cartridge News article on that rifle, written by Kenny Durham a few years ago? He seemed to get decent accuracy with BP and has listed his bullets/loads to 500m.

Have you tried slower powder? i.e. Swiss 1.5? When I first got into shooting the smaller cartridges ( .32-40, .38-55 ) I was led to believe that FFFg was the way to go, but my experience has been that much better accuracy can be had with slower powders. I actually use Fg in the .38-55 with one of my CPA riles ( breech seated ) and it shoots extremely well at 200m. Probably not the best option for silhouette shooting, but it works very well at the shorter distances.

Chris.

[Chill Wills]

Two things I would look at. The first sounds funny but do this.
Post the lot number of the FFFg Swiss powder.

Second, the Buffalo Arms bore wipers are very good for getting the bore very clean and when shooting PP bullets I found this to be just what I need, on the other hand, accuracy dropped off with this method shooting GG bullets like you are doing. If you really want to check this, I would tryshooting groups both blowtube 5-6 long slow breaths and groups just wiping with a nylon (Montana Extreme brand) is very good using cotton cleaning patch or if you have them a flannel patch or HF micro fiber cloth cut into 2" squares. The micro fiber patches are very good and can be washed.
What is your wiping fluid - Likely NAPA cutting oil and water or its like is fine.

I am going to hit the first point again - what is the lot number of the Swiss powder?

[Toymaker]

Gunlaker - I do not have that article by Kenny Durham. I have the one by Dick Trent that I mentioned and another by Dwight Hlustick. Do you remember the name of the article? Perhaps I can find it with a search.
The idea of slower powder is interesting. The unused can of Goex Cartridge seems a little courser than Goex 2Fg so I got curious. Swiss 1 1/2 was tried, but results were inconsistent and no better than plain old Goex 2Fg. Maybe I should go back and try again. Wait.... is that Swiss Fg or Goex Fg you're using??? mmmmmmm. Interesting.

Purely based on velocities I found that for the same volume of the same granulation of powder Olde Eynsford is 10% more powerful than Goex and Swiss 10% more powerful than Olde Eynsford.

Chill Wills - First, I shudder to think what you're getting at. The lot number is UN 0027
Second, I decided against using a blowtube because I could see me getting winded half way through a 10 shot relay.
I use Bore Tech cotton flannel 2" patches. They're tough and absorbent. They can even be washed two or three times and reused - they're super absorbent then.
I don't have any HF micro fiber patches but I do have U.S. Arsenal Patches. They're cotton weave with a ribbed texture and are almost indestructible.
My "Moose Milk" is 7 parts water, 1 part NAPA cutting oil and a dash of Pinesol or Lestoil.

Thanks for the responses. Appreciate your insights. Oh, Chill, I am reading up on PP bullets too. May need a new mold once I figure what it needs to be.

[Gunlaker]

Gunlaker - I do not have that article by Kenny Durham. I have the one by Dick Trent that I mentioned and another by Dwight Hlustick. Do you remember the name of the article? Perhaps I can find it with a search.
The idea of slower powder is interesting. The unused can of Goex Cartridge seems a little courser than Goex 2Fg so I got curious. Swiss 1 1/2 was tried, but results were inconsistent and no better than plain old Goex 2Fg. Maybe I should go back and try again. Wait.... is that Swiss Fg or Goex Fg you're using??? mmmmmmm. Interesting.

Purely based on velocities I found that for the same volume of the same granulation of powder Olde Eynsford is 10% more powerful than Goex and Swiss 10% more powerful than Olde Eynsford.

Thanks for the responses. Appreciate your insights. Oh, Chill, I am reading up on PP bullets too. May need a new mold once I figure what it needs to be.

I have used both Goex Fg and Swiss Fg. The Goex Fg seems to have big differences between lots. I've had one lot give very good results, and the next was unimpressive. This thread shows a 12 shot group from my CPA with plain Goex Fg at 223 yards. Most of the shots are inside of the 2" inner ring.

https://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1451950847/5

I think the Swiss is a better powder in general. Once my current lot of plain Goex Fg is used up I likely won't buy any more. I've also had varying results with different lots of OE 1.5. My first case, bought when it just came out, was much hotter than Swiss 1.5. I couldn't even breech seat with that powder as it tended to separate the .38-55 Starline brass right away. My most recent lot of OE 1.5 shoots quite a lot slower than Swiss 1.5. Basically I like Swiss as it's always been easy to get it shooting well.

I have one rifle that I shoot breech seated PP bullets in. I got Steve Brooks make an elliptical bullet ( I think 320gr, 1.29" long maybe ) that I patch to bore and breech seat. That is the first rifle I ever shot a prone, minute of angle, ten shot group at 200m with. It likes Swiss 1.5 best, followed by Swiss Fg. It did shoot very well with Goex Express FFg, but I have no more of that powder :-)

I will send you a p.m. regarding that article.

Chris.

[Chill Wills]

Good mornig Toymaker
You wrote:
"Chill Wills - First, I shudder to think what you're getting at. The lot number is UN 0027"

I wonder if there is a second set of numbers on your powder can? That number is unlike any lot system I know of.

The Swiss powder coming into the USA had used at least three lot number conventions since it was imported in 1999 and I first started using it.
The early cans were marked simply as an example Lot #1, then this system was used, 250.306 or 181.113 and now they have a straight forward date like AUG12, 2017.

I do not want to make a big deal of this and have it turn into a hijacked thread. You can PM me if you want.