I give up on commercial high tech bevel base bullets

[dogdoc]

I am a long time caster since the 1980s but time is often short so I have lately tried some high tech coated bullets for several makers in 357,41, and 44 mag and special. I know about hardness and bullet fit but I have many guns so I try to find a happy medium like sizing most of my home cast 44s .430. In many different guns and calibers, I get unacceptable to severe leading with these bullets anytime I push them over 850 FPS or so. I try them in old Smiths, new Smiths , rugers, and Even some colts. Different loads, powders and primers.They all lead. Powder coat may work but most commercial guys use high tech. Of course my Alox hand cast bullets work fine even in guns with different throat dimensions for the most part. Straight lead commercial cast bullets coated with Lee Alox or 45/45/10 work fine too. I guess if I buy more commercial cast they will be straight lead with crappy lube and I will just coat them with Alox and live with the smoke . Anybody else not too impressed with commercial coated high tech bullets?


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[onelight]

I shoot with 2 other guys 2 times a week and we all shoot a lot of hi-tek coated in a lot of calibers we load with red-dot and BE-86 with no leading both auto and revolvers up to maybe 1200fps.
On (correction ) SNS web sight he mentions that certain powders can cause leading with the coated bullets. If it’s not the powder I don’t have a clue why ours shoot clean and yours don’t.

[Norske]

It's the beveled base. It will direct hot gases toward the edge of the bullet, aiding gas cutting. As Venturino often writes, bevel based cast bullets are accurate only with starting loads. Commercial casters like them because they drop from molds easier.
DOD tests from WW1 to recently show accelerated bore erosion with boat tail bullets, so the gas being directed to the bullet edge isn't only for cast.
Years ago, before I knew better, I bought a bunch of cartons of bevel-base cast bullets from a sporting goods store that was going out of business. I now use them to add tin to my home-cast flat base bullets.

[onelight]

We shoot bevel base in 380 , 9 , 40 , 45 , 327 , 38/357 44/44 mag at 700 to 1200 FPS
I prefer flat base and my molds are but what I buy is bevel base.
If it’s not the powder there must be some other difference in how me and my buddy’s load.
We shoot Glocks springfields S&W m&ps and revolvers sigs Ria’s Rugers HK’s and Rossi and Henry.
None of our loads are starting but some of the auto loads are close to max with BE-86
We normally shoot 50 to a 100 per session. I clean after every session.
I buy my bullets from Summers and from SNS
The dies myself and 1 buddy are mainly Lee 4 die sets the other friend is mainly RCBS and Dillon . If there are any other specifics that might help figure it out let me know. It’s a mystery to me at this point.

[onelight]

As I have been thinking I do have a Ruger 45 convertible that has pretty bad thread choke that will lead a little with 50 rounds but does so with regular cast or the hi-tek bevel base .

[375supermag]

Hi...
I shoot a lot of bevel based commercial cast lead bullets acroos the spectrum of handgun calibers.
I generally limit those loads to 1000-1100 fps.
I don't get much leading if any.
My son has talked me into using plated and now coated lead bullets with good results so far.
My full power loads are always built using Hornady HP/XTPs.

[onelight]

dogdoc you may have seen this , but it might be helpful to someone it's the recommended powders from SNS
https://www.snscasting.com/

[Lakehouse2012]

dogdoc you may have seen this , but it might be helpful to someone it's the recommended powders from SNS
https://www.snscasting.com/Im reading this thread with interest. Scanning SNS site, i didnt find anything on reccomended powders. Can anyone point me directly to that area?

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[onelight]

Im reading this thread with interest. Scanning SNS site, i didnt find anything on reccomended powders. Can anyone point me directly to that area?

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When open to the posted link , you are on the page start reading.:smile:

[dogdoc]

I have tried them in multiple handguns in multiple calibers with multiple loads. I think ,like Brian Pearce has written, you just cannot drive them much faster than 800 FPS for consistency . I may be being picky but my home cast Alox lubed bullets lead very little. I have loaded some light 38 spl with high tech wad cutters and 158 swc that do ok. Maybe the ecm rifling in Smiths contributes but I am not so sure as I got terrible leading in my super Blackhawk ruger with 240 grain rnfp Missouri and about 8 grains of sport pistol.should be less than 1000 FPS but I did not chronograph. Off to shoot some flatbase 250 grain rcbs Keith bullets with Alox lube in a new to me smith 6.5 inch 29-2��

[onelight]

The coated bullets are still just cast bullets hardness and fit rules still apply , if expectations are that they will perform Like a well designed and cast properly sized for custom fit specific gun are not realistic . If they are compared to any thing it should be bulk cast bullets in the same price range. There is a wide range of quality on commercial cast some are excellent at my income level they are not plinkers so I cast where it matters to me.
All that said you would just have to try them in your gun with your load to see if you have a match just like any other cast bullet .
But a blanket statement that they won't work over 800 FPS without leading is not accurate I shoot with 2 other guys we all exceed that often by at least several hundred FPS in a multitude of guns twice a week . None of us load full power loads in the magnum revolvers with them.
I use them as a hand loaded version of WW white box (that is not a compliment) and for me they work better than the same bullets from the same manufactures without the coating. They are plinkers .

[dogdoc]

Shot some 250 Keith rcbs yesterday sized .430 lubed with Alox in both a 29-2 with 432 throats and anewer smith 69 with .429 throats. No significant leading for 100 rounds or so. Load was 12 grains of hs-6 with cci 300 at about 1100 FPS. About 2 inch 25 yard 6 shot groups with both revolvers. More like 1.5 inch with best five of six. You do not have to have perfect fit in order not to have leading as often implied. Perfect fit is better but when you have a lot of revolvers like me , you look for compromise. My newer 69 with the newer ecm barrel seems to lead no more or even less than some of my old ones, contrary to what you read about ecm rifling and lead bullets.
Nothing beats good old 50/50 Alox bees wax or even 45/45/10. High tech is too nasty for me at higher velocity
That’s my story and I am sticking too it����������!!

[onelight]

:smile:dogdoc I believe you .
One of my buddies has a 4" 69 that is a sweet gun if I could only have one revolver that would be it . His regular load in his 69 is summers 180 rnfp hi-tek he loads 12 grains of be-86 its 1200 plus FPS I know he has shot at least 500 with that load he tells me no leading.
I have a 61/2" mod.29 and I shoot 240 grain swc ,summers hi-tek over both BE-86 and red dot I prefer sub sonic usually 800 to 1000 the other fellow I shoot with has a 6" 629 with 240 hi-tek his are also subsonic with BE-86 amazing guy at 30 to 50' puts 5 shots off hand in one hole with boring regularity (he is a retired Detective in his 80's)
For 44 we buy the .430 we group buy our bullets to save freight most of the time , the 3 of us have ordered at least 12000 from summers in the past twelve months. We get no appreciable leading from the Hi-tek . Or we adjust the load.
Which is what you did , if they didn't work in my guns I wouldn't shoot them either.

[Petrol & Powder]

A portion of my reloading career occurred before I was casting my own. I used commercially cast bullets from various vendors and my experience was they ranged from adequate to horrible.
Sometimes commercially produced bullets were fine but that wasn't always the case. Too small, too hard and bad lube, were all common issues.
When I started casting, I didn't even consider a bevel base design.

[tazman]

There is a cast boolit manufacturer near me that makes some very fine boolits. I have tried several of his products for 38 special, 45acp, and 9mm in both lubed and hitek coating.
All have worked well for me in all my handguns so far.

[dogdoc]

Shoot 50 or 100 high tek bevel base swc bullets is any caliber revolver( 357,44,41) at greater than or equal too 1000fps and post an honest picture of the interior of your barrel. I bet you will have significant leading. Lube them with lla or 45/45/10 and you will be fine. That’s what I will do with 2000 or so l have now. I have done that for years with uncoated commercial hard lubed bullets with ok results. The hard lube on the commercial bullets was useless.

[tazman]

I have to admit that I have never run them that fast. Most of my shooting runs between 750fps and 900fps except for the 9mm.
I guess I will need to check that out.

[onelight]

Shoot 50 or 100 high tek bevel base swc bullets is any caliber revolver( 357,44,41) at greater than or equal too 1000fps and post an honest picture of the interior of your barrel. I bet you will have significant leading. Lube them with lla or 45/45/10 and you will be fine. That’s what I will do with 2000 or so l have now. I have done that for years with uncoated commercial hard lubed bullets with ok results. The hard lube on the commercial bullets was useless.
The 45/45/10 is a good idea most of what I load is under a 1000 and I have no problem with Hi-Tec loads I use . I have cleaned enough leaded barrels in the last 50 years to recognize it when it is present .But I will try that extra lube next time I get leading .