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Lonestar22
10-30-2008, 12:09 PM
I recently purchased a 452423 mold, and finally cast up a batch last Saturday. Now I’m to the point of looking for some loads, and would like your recommendations.

I’ll be loading the CB for both an auto loader and revolver, just for target shooting. I’m thinking because of the bullets weight, I should stay away from real fast burning powders, so I’m thinking Unique and Herco, but I am open to any recommendation.

Thanks for your time.

Tim

yondering
10-30-2008, 02:13 PM
What round are you loading these for, and what gun?

Unique is a good choice for 45 Colt and 45 ACP with this boolit. Here are the loads I use:
For 45 Colt, use 8gr Unique in a SAA type, or 10gr in a Ruger or lever action.
For 45 ACP, up to 6gr Unique is OK in a strong gun, like a 1911. Seat the boolit out as far as it will tolerate, and still feed correctly.

Lonestar22
10-30-2008, 03:15 PM
The 452423 will be loaded in .45ACP & AR. Platform used: 1911 & 25-2.

jimkim
10-30-2008, 05:15 PM
Hey Lonestar22 longtime no see.

jimkim
10-30-2008, 10:37 PM
I got your email. No, I haven't personally used those loads. I just had the article saved in my favorites. I hoard load data and magazine articles. I think I would probably reduce that load to 6.0gr of Unique then work up. I think a 20 % reduction might be better given the combination of bullet weight and seating depth. I hope I helped. Jim

jimkim
10-30-2008, 11:30 PM
Here is a link to the article with the info. http://www.sixguns.com/crew/cba.htm I found it to be quite informative. Jim

Bass Ackward
10-31-2008, 07:47 AM
I recently purchased a 452423 mold, and finally cast up a batch last Saturday. Now I’m to the point of looking for some loads, and would like your recommendations.

I’ll be loading the CB for both an auto loader and revolver, just for target shooting. I’m thinking because of the bullets weight, I should stay away from real fast burning powders, so I’m thinking Unique and Herco, but I am open to any recommendation.

Thanks for your time.

Tim


Tim,

I have a couple of guys following this response, so this is for their benefit and maybe some other folks. Follow the logical process here and there is one.

You may need different things with both guns. Look at the big picture first. The goal: launch "that" design correctly. Launch any design well, and it will fly well for practical handgun ranges. IF launched poorly, no design will compensate.

1. That means that you need to find out how hard does the design needs to be to hold the impact with the rifling. Here is where knowing your gun can really help. Big difference here between the auto loader and the revolver if both have the same rifling height. That's why design strength is so very important. Because you can do with design what you do with hardness. If your design doesn't have the strength, then you will have to do it with hardness. Rifling height and width (displaced lead) make requirements different. Guys that don't understand this first step wander from design to design until they find one that will work with the criteria they insist on using. But you can have too strong of a design too if you are running a PB cause it takes time for that lead to displace and the whole time that base is screaming, "let me out of here!" Helps when you learn what your gun prefers / needs.

2. And if your revolver has any alignment issues, it may have to be even harder than that to withstand the impact with the cone and rotate that heavy cylinder without deforming too much. This also slows the bullet progress and affects the base. So sizing here can alter what is needed. Sizing comes into play because too much wiggle room and the bullet will turn and then that base goes outta square with the bore. But sometimes a little wiggle room can allow the front of the bullet to move away from the impact so it isn't deformed as much. But if this is the case, you have seal issues if your cartridge doesn't produce enough pressure to obturate it in the first place. Why most guns work right close to the top. It also is why groups sizes change for the last cylinders fired cause the cylinder doesn't weigh as much now, so less deformation can alter POI or group.

3. Sealing a hard bullet with a low pressure cartridge is almost an impossibility if you can't fit the throat. Hopefully your gun is aligned, so impact deformation is uniform. If you can't obturate because of the cartridge, then you need to size big to fill the space. If your gun is not used to these dimensions, this may take a few hundred rounds before the gun breaks in to accept this new reality. This may sound strange especially if you already think the gun is broken in. You might have 20,000 rounds through it, but a revolver is not fully broken in until it does so with the largest diameter it can possibly shoot. (full throat) Then it's broken in.

If you did all this correctly, any powder speed that produces enough velocity to stabilize the design without causing leading will work. All you have to do is start low and come up with it until your situation is satisfied. If you didn't get it right, then you are going to be groping for a better quality lube or different powder until something finally works or you lose patience and chuck the design. Every design sold works for someone. Might as well learn how that can be for you too. Better yet, learn your gun and avoid those designs you know that you can't possibly launch well.

The auto is easier cause you don't have impact speed or cylinder alignment to correct. Your problem here is seal and feed. You can generally get by with softer lead, weaker bullet design, poorer lube, cause there is still a slight chance of obturation assisting you with the softer lead. Just get the diameter slightly bigger than the bore and adjust the seating depth so it will chamber with out the bullet tilting when the round goes off. Then hope / pray that combo feeds or compromise until it does. Then go back and adjust diameter to try and correct the compromise. Diameter and depth. Again, knowing your gun can eliminate designs that will require more compromise or that you know will flat out not work for "that gun".

Lonestar22
10-31-2008, 08:53 AM
I sure appreciate all your help, and “Bass Ackward” you have opened my eyes to things I have not thought about before, and I appreciate that.
In point #3, you state, “…but a revolver is not fully broken in until it does so with the largest diameter it can possibly shoot. (full throat) Then it's broken in.”
The chamber throats on my 25-2 measure .454”. The as cast diameter of my 452423 CB’s measure .456”.
If I follow your thoughts than sizing to .454” or .455”, or the as cast .456” diameter is where I need to be, based on which diameter will chamber. Am I going in the right direction?
Thanks,
Tim

Bass Ackward
10-31-2008, 09:49 AM
If I follow your thoughts than sizing to .454” or .455”, or the as cast .456” diameter is where I need to be, based on which diameter will chamber. Am I going in the right direction?
Thanks, Tim


Ever wonder why your mold throws bullets that big? I would start at .454 then. Just realize that it will have to break in if that gun hasn't shot that big. many times people will try a design and discard it as one that they can't shoot that if they waited until their gun broke in, it may have been the most accurate design choice. My 625-8 had a .4505 bore when new. I sized .452. 2000 rounds later, my bore is .452. The gun shot reasonably well then. Shoots a lot better now.

Elmer said that this bullet loved lino, and I got no reason to doubt him since he designed it. But he also said that he sized it to .452. So if you size bigger, you can probably go a little softer. But that is what you need to find out first. Then move to powder selection to find what works the best. Don't jump the gun so to speak.

That was designed to show the big picture that most guys never look at when choosing a design. But if you don't know your gun, then that's a mute point anyway.

Bret4207
10-31-2008, 09:57 AM
Count yourself lucky you have that mould. Mine throws .449-.450. Skinny sucker.

txpete
11-07-2008, 05:16 PM
I have that mold but it is a ideal.it throws a fat bullet with my alloy:drinks: but it is a single cav mold.
pete

Char-Gar
11-25-2008, 06:20 PM
I am the guy that wrote the article linked by JimKim and the information is still good. But here are the basic loads I use on a regular basis.

45 ACP - 45243 sized .452 and loaded over 4.8/Bullseye. I have gone as high at 5/BE but perfer 4.7 or 4.7 for regular use. Alloy is about wheelweight in hardness. The bullet is seated with just a hair of the bullet shoulder out of the case.

45 AR - 7.5/ Unique with the bullet sized .454 and the same alloy. The bullet is seated in the crimp groove. This round can also be used with ACP cases and clips. I use this in the Post WWII Smith and Wessons. DO NOT shoot this load in Colt 1917 or SMith 1917s.

I have also used this bullet over a full snort load of 2400 to velocities of 1.3K fps, but don't so some on a regular basis.

I have been using this bullet for 45 years and still consider it tops. It does have it limitations in that for ranges over 100 yards a heavier/long bullet holds up better in the accuracy department.

I had Buckshot hollow point my original SC Ideal mold and am having great fun with it as well.