The Kit Gun, revisited

[Petrol & Powder]

The concept of a "Kit Gun" has always intrigued me. A compact, lightweight, accurate, weather resistant handgun to accompany one while just bumming around the outdoors.
The criteria is different for everyone and no one size fits all. Some folks like a handgun chambered in .22LR, others want a larger caliber. Some folks lean towards a pistol while others favor a revolver. Then there's the SA vs. DA question. A gun capable of taking small game? A gun for informal plinking? A gun that can be pressed into service for signaling or self-defense in an emergency?

The individual criteria is just that - Individual, unique, personal.

Many years ago I played with the 32 S&W long and its larger cousin the 32 H&R magnum. Loved the cartridges but I drifted away from that caliber. The .22 rimfire pistols and revolvers were fun back when you could buy a brick of .22's for the cost of a cheap lunch. However finding a stainless steel .22 that didn't weigh a lot or require mortgage was not easy in my younger days.

Fast forward to the more modern era and the C.E. "Ed" Harris' article on the full charge wadcutter resonated with me. The 38 Special could fill the role of a "Kit Gun" and be versatile enough that it fill other roles as well. I have always held the 38 Special in high regard. So that clenched it for me - the cartridge would be a 38 Special.
All that was left was to find the gun to fill the other half of the gun/cartridge equation.

That turned out to be far more difficult than I initially assumed.

In my world, that gun needed to be: A DA revolver, have a 4" tapered barrel, be as weather proof as possible, be as lightweight as possible but still be suitable for +P loads if needed, have either fixed sights or very tough adjustable sights and be capable of decent accuracy and ....oh yea..... be obtainable on my budget during my lifetime. No problem ;)

My first thought was a S&W model 67. Stainless steel, it's chambered in the right cartridge and close to the desired dimensions. I wasn't thrilled about the adjustable rear sight and I couldn't seem to find one that was priced right. The model 64 was another option but they all had heavy barrels, I didn't want that extra steel. A Ruger Service-Six in stainless with a tapered barrel would have been acceptable but I just couldn't seem to find one with all of the right combinations (Ruger made a LOT of variations of the DA six's ! )
My quest wasn't a full time endeavor but it was always in the back of my mind. Then I found a S&W Model 10-5 on-line that was priced right and appeared to be in excellent condition. It was a re-import in the U.S.A. and it became mine. Then I found out why it was unfired and cheap; the barrel to cylinder gap was more like a spark plug gap.
OK, so much for the bargain - caveat emptor.

The serial number placed the production in 1969 and the gun was in excellent condition other than the poor assembly tolerance of the barrel. I had the barrel set back and the forcing cone cleaned up a bit. I made a few other changes to suit me and I had a mechanically perfect model 10. Being a dash 5, it had the tapered barrel and I decided this would be the "Kit Gun".

The next hurdle to overcome was the rust prone carbon steel construction. So off to Robar it went for a complete NP3 refinish. (after correcting the B/C gap the budget wouldn't allow NP3+). A set of Pachmayr "Gripper" stocks replaced the wooden factory grips with a more weather proof rubber grip.

It was a journey but a good one:

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[Tatume]

A particular criterion that is important to me is light weight. Another criterion is chambering for 22 LR. These criteria lead me to the S&W Model 317, a revolver with which I am very pleased. The criteria are different for others.

[Char-Gar]

During my years in South America and travels through the Andes and Rain Forest, I gave much thought about what would be the one pistol I would own. Upon my return to the States, I went to Carter Country Guns in Houston and purchased a new Smith and Wesson (Model 63) Kit Gun. I still think it is the nee plus ultra.

Now if a person can reload and have access to componets, I would agree the 38 Special would make a great choice. Ed Harris makes a convincing argument for the full charge wadcutter and I load and shoot lots of them. I have a great 4" Smith Model 64 that will do nicely in such a role.246215

[Petrol & Powder]

I'd like to attach a photo but either my computer of the website is throwing a tantrum right now.

Success !

Thanks to those that offered advice. I went back and added a photo.

[Petrol & Powder]

Char-Gar, thank for sharing that photo. And I agree with your take on the model 63.
The barrel on that 64 looks more tapered than any of the ones I could find. If I had located one of those, I would have been extremely happy.

Opps - the photo is a model 63 not a 64. My mistake.

[sparky45]

Lovely gun porn Charles, made getting up today worth while.

[charlie b]

I loved my Ruger SP101 for that role. 3" and .357 The only drawback for me was the fixed sight, but, with my std .357 loads it shot to point of aim at 20yds. I would keep snakeshot in the first chamber. Sorry I got rid of it.

Right now I usually carry my HK VP9, but, even it can feel a bit bulky when out fishing or hiking. I have tried carrying my Radom P64 (9mm Mak) but I am just not very accurate with it. Both of these fail with light loads, which is nice to have in a revolver sometimes.

I have been considering a small .38spl to fill that roll these days, like a Ruger LCR in 3". I do not really feel the need for a 4" barrel. I have a 4" Python and the extra barrel length makes it a bit cumbersome to me for field carry. The sight radius of a shorter barrel is just a small difference at distances I would shoot it. I guess I need to try shooting some of the smaller revolvers to see how they do.

[ShooterAZ]

I have a couple of revolvers that I consider to fit my "kit gun" needs. One is an Old Model Single 6 convertible (carried with 5, and the hammer on the empty 6th). The other is a S&W 3" model 10, sometimes with shot loads in the first two cylinders. Both are fairly light and easy to carry all day.

[shtur]

Since I'm a outdoorsman or woodsman, my kit gun/woodsman gun is a Colt Woodsman

[Petrol & Powder]

Charlie b - I agree with you on the 3" vs. 4" barrel and I'm a HUGE fan of the 3" tube on a DA revolver. With the tapered barrel the extra 1" on a K-frame adds very little weight and you get a little longer sight radius; however I agree a 3" barrel is much more "packable" in terms of carrying.

I've never considered fixed sights to be an impediment or somehow inferior to adjustable sights. In fact, I generally prefer fixed sights for their strength and lower profile. If one changes bullet weight often, adjustable sights may be an advantage but the negatives of adjustable sights outweigh the positives in my world. (they are prone to snag on things, they aren't as strong as fixed sights and they can get out of adjustment if handled roughly)
Most of the skilled shooters that I've known use adjustable sights to center the point of aim and point of impact for a particular load. After that one time adjustment, they NEVER touch the sights again.
I've seen many poor shooters use adjustable sights as some type a substitute for bad technique. They are constantly adjusting the sights and chasing the group all over the target. An old marksman once told me that adjustable sights allow you to move the group around the target but the adjustable sights don't make that group any smaller :shock:

The 3" SP101 is a great candidate for the Kit Gun role, stainless, rugged, fairly thin with the 5 shot cylinder. They're a little heavy for their size but very compact overall.

[Outpost75]

I'm also a fan of the 3" revolver and have a gaggle of them, a 3" Colt Cobra .22 LR, two 3" Detective Specials in .32 NP and .38 Special, and an actual 3" Ruger Speed Six .357 leftover from the Customs and Border Patrol run I got as a Ruger employee sale. I'm currently in the process of having Sandy Garrett at NoVA Gun Works making a 3" Official Police Colt for me, fitting a new barrel, shortening it to 3", refitting the original front sight on the bobbed barrel and tweaking to shoot on at 25 yards with full-charge wadcutters.

[Gray Fox]

I bought one of the .44 WC 6 cavity group buy molds from a member here and I'm going to see how my early 3" Charter Arms .44 special will work for a kit gun. I have a 3" 696, but it probably weighs close to twice as much. GF

[Rick Hodges]

My answer is the Ruger LCRx3 in 38 sp. I put the LCR grips on it to make it even more compact. It is ugly as hell but shoots Lee 125 RF's 129gr. actual in my alloy) to the same point of aim as my 130 WW Ranger HP's at 875 fps. Accurate, lightweight, and cheap to shoot. I've not played with the wadcutter's yet.

[rintinglen]

Make mine a 4 inch for woods walking. For many years,my favorite was a 4 inch Police Positive, these days it is the S&W M-63 or Ruger 327 Sp-101. That extra inch helps my aged eyes focus on the front sight a bit better.
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(And the pink grips let my 11 year old grand daughter Shoot a "cool" magnum;))

[TCFAN]

My choice for a kit gun is my SP101 327 Fed. Mag using a lite load of bullseye and a cast 103 gr. SWC in 327 brass.I have to have help with pistol sights so I use a Burris Fast fire red dot on my revolver.

https://i.imgur.com/0LxoKl7.jpg?1

[charlie b]

My answer is the Ruger LCRx3 in 38 sp. I put the LCR grips on it to make it even more compact. It is ugly as hell but shoots Lee 125 RF's 129gr. actual in my alloy) to the same point of aim as my 130 WW Ranger HP's at 875 fps. Accurate, lightweight, and cheap to shoot. I've not played with the wadcutter's yet.

That's exactly what I was looking at.

I only use adjustable sights when I change loads. With the .357s the POI is dramatically different with .38spl loads and then magnum loads. For really light loads the Python's sights won't even adjust far enough.

It may be good to have fixed sights on a .38spl since difference in POI between loads might not be that great.

[cabezaverde]

I have a stainless Charter Arms Bulldog made in Stratford that I always thought would fill that role. 200 grain WNFP works well in it.

[MT Gianni]

For me the 32 candidates are 32 Long in a 4" S&W I frame from about 53 and a Ruger SSM 5 1/2" bbl. Both can be shot cheaper than a 22. 38's vary between a Model 15 a 4" and a Model 36 snubby. I have found a good shooting Kahr in 40 S&W that is the same size as my palm. All of them occasionally spend time in the woods with me.

[boatswainsmate]

The is my fishing partner. Smith & Wesson Model 43 Kit Gun. 22 LR, 3 1/2 inch barrel, unmarked alloy frame. I had a custom holster made for it.
https://i.ibb.co/mFzZSxh/DSCN3090.jpg (https://ibb.co/M5Nw9XP)
https://i.ibb.co/82mnfH4/DSCN3124.jpg (https://ibb.co/k0GVwt6)

[glaciers]

Model 63 stainless 22 lr with 4" barrel. The 63's are about as sweet as they come.
When I feel need for more I like a 3" 5 shot SP101. The 3" guns fit in my back pocket just right. I have a Ruger Security Six 4" 357 that I'll carry but it's pushing the limits on size and weight. Really like it, and if I ever run across a 3", it will be mine.
I also like the Lady Smith 357, now that's a pocket size gun with horsepower. I keep that one in my motorhome in the lower 48.
The Ruger LCR's are interesting. The 32 H&R mag and the 327 Mag are something on my short list also.
So many guns, so little money.

[Petrol & Powder]

boatswainmate - that 43 is sweet ! Alloy frame, 3.5" barrel. Great set up.
MT Gianni - I'll second your comments on the 32 S&W long. I wish there were more guns for that cartridge. It is cheap to re-load, can be very accurate, hits harder than a 22 and spare ammo is easy to carry.
Outpost75 - Thank you for sharing the photos of the Colts. I too am a huge fan of 3" barrels for DA revolvers and I own several but none of them are Colts.

[Thumbcocker]

I have been searching for the perfect "kit gun" for many years. I think a person needs several of them for various situations. I have a model 63 4" that is loads of fun but I prefer a reloadable cartridge, a Smith model 18 is also a good candidate. A smith 30 or 31 is a good candidate and doesn't weigh much. Years ago there was an article in one of the magazines where the author had a model 30 tricked out with adjustable sights and it was a pretty little gun. Then we get into the K frame Smiths a model 15 would be a good choice. But then I get to arguing with myself about how many similar sized .357's there are that give you the option of more horse power. Then I get to thinking about maybe a bigger hole might be a good idea depending on one's location. How about a GP100 5 shot 3" .44 special. Light charges with wadcutters or Skeeter's load or there abouts. Of course there was that run of Bisley .44 mags with 3.75" barrels. For a caster/ loader a very versatile pistol .433 round balls to 300 grain boolits.

I envy you all who have found your ideal "kit gun". I have all of the above revolvers and still haven't found the perfect kit gun. I am currently working with a sp101 in .327 and some 100 grain wadcutters in .32 long brass. Don't feel too sorry for me because I haven't found THE kit gun yet. I am having a load of fun looking. Heck maybe the journey is the destination.

[Petrol & Powder]

Thumbcocker - I can tell you with absolute certainty that, The Journey IS the destination !

[T_McD]

My choice is the LCRX in .22lr. Capacity means more to me than caliber, pretty much requiring .22

I will say I dislike how the star ejector gets pushed past empty cases. It’s not terribly difficult to fix but one would think a revolver should be able to eject cases with ease.

[Larry Gibson]

Back in the day when I first read about "kit guns" they were generally accepted to be small frame revolvers with 4" or shorter barrels with fixed sights (shorter was preferred). They were chambered in smaller caliber less recoiling rounds of 22LR to 38 SPL but mostly were 22LR or 32 S&WL in small frame revolvers. There were of H&R, Iver Johnson, S&W and an occasional small frame Colt. The Ruger Bearcat also received some press as a "kit gun". While they could be carried in a belt holster they The "kit" was they were supposed to be left in a tackle box while fishing or in a day/back pack while hunting and used for small game and pests. The small 22LR revolver with the old shot loads was favored when fishing in cotton mouth or water moccasin waters.

My first "kit gun" as such was a 38 S&W H&R revolver with shot loads for rattlesnakes when out shooting rock chucks and ground squirrels. It was replaced by a M36 Chief SPL in 38 SPL with 1 7/8" barrel in '72. These days my S&W M30 with 3" barrel in 32 S&WL is my preferred "kit gun". However, these days I also consider my Ruger SS (original run) in 32 H&R as my "kit gun" even though it is carried in a belt holster. It's light weight and hardly noticed when carrying.

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[slughammer]

Char-Gar, thank for sharing that photo....................
................
The barrel on that 64 looks more tapered than any of the ones I could find. If I had located one of those, I would have been extremely happy.

That photo has an adjustable sight, looks like a 63.

PA only allows manually operated for hunting and fishing carry; but I never cared for the accuracy of my J-Frame model 63 or the shootability compared to any K framed 22.
I've always thought if one of the requirements of a Kit Gun is fixed sights, then my pencil barrel Ruger Mark I would do the job nicely. A box of 50 shells fits in the palm of my hand and the Mark I shoots as good as any K-Frame.

[Thumbcocker]

I think we have an opportunity here. I would wager that the folks responding to this thread have at least a couple of centuries of time spent hunting, fishing camping and wood bumming. So why don't we set out our criteria for what a kit gun should be. I am not talking about caliber or type of gun but what criteria are we looking for? What size / weight requirements? does the weight include ammunition ie gun and 50 rounds of ammo weighing not more than _____. What purpose is the kit gun to serve? plinking ? Small game for camp? fun shooting? I don't think of a kit gun as protection from bad guys? If I knew I was going to a gun fight I would probably call in sick. Also I don't really need to protect myself from bears. The last critter that showed aggression towed me was a half grown raccoon who got his foot caught in the bird feeder. The ungrateful little sucker growled and charged me after I got his foot loose.. He was repelled with a swift kick from a tactical croc. The next most recent critter that got annoyed with me was a large sow at a hunting ranch. She was upset about my role in the demise of some of her kin. But in that case I was hunting with a .44 magnum.


I read an article written after WWII where the author championed the many surplus .32 autos for the kit gun role. His accuracy standard was a group the size of a 50 cent piece at (IIRC) 50 feet. Soooo what say you all? What characteristics, accuracy, portability, power, etc. does our kit gun need? Do these things change west of the Mississippi?

[Char-Gar]

The basis of my understanding of a Kit Gun comes from my experience in the rain forest of Ecuador with the indigenous people. I was flown in by a light airplane to a grass strip cut from the rain forest. I was there for a week to ten days until the plane came back. I was the only white person within two weeks walk. I hunted with the men in the village using a Colt Huntsman 22 pistol that I took into Ecuador totally against the law. If I knew the way out, which I didn't it would weeks to get out. I had no ammo in the truck for there were no trucks. There were no stores when I could buy ammo or reloading componets. All I had was what I could carry in a small duffel.

In those circumstances a smallish stainless steel revolver in 22 LR seemed like the best idea. I wanted a firearm I could depend on under extreme weather conditions and extreme remote place. I also didn't want a back breaking load of ammo. 500 rounds of 38 Special weights a whole bunch more than 500 rounds of 22 LR.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, that's a tall order BUT here goes:

I think for a revolver the maximum size would be a 4" barrel (3" may be better) on something no larger than a medium frame (S&W K-frame or Colt D frame)

Weight - well less is more here but 2 1/4 pounds (36 ounces) empty which works out to just about a kilogram.

Ammunition weight - I think enough ammo for 6 rounds in the gun and 18 more rounds would be a decent benchmark. With full wadcutters in 38 Special casings that is about 15 grams per cartridge. 24 rounds at 15 grams each is 360 grams - which is just under 13 ounces. If you dropped down to a smaller cartridge such as a 32 S&W Long or a .22 LR, you could carry a lot more for the same weight.

Use - informal plinking, pest control and small game of opportunity. So probably a wadcutter.

A 1 kilogram gun that's no longer than 25cm (just under 10") and 360 grams (just under 13 ounces) of ammo.

The gun and gear needs to be as weather proof as possible.

None of the above is carved in stone or considered holy writ.

[glaciers]

Well I would vote for the model 63 as I have one and have used it for years. Stainless, 22 LR, light, I believe it's right at 25 oz. Its accurate, and handy. My only thing I would change is from the 4" to a 3" bbl. It would have to fit in my pocket and a box of 50 would be in my shirt pocket.
Now this is if I had to pick "the" kit gun. Heaven forbid that misfortune.
The new model 63 is a 8 shot with a 3" bbl. and over $700.

[Petrol & Powder]

The S&W Model 63 is getting a lot of love on this thread.

[georgerkahn]

While I agree with your thoughts vis the .22 as a kit gun, having both the
S&W 63 and its .22 mag cousin, I also moved to the .38 scene. My choice?
A Ruger SP101 fills the bill for me 😀😀😀.

[glaciers]

Yeah As I stated earlier the SP 101 3" 357 I have is an out standing pocket gun. But for a kit gun I'd still go with the 63. Unless it was self defense from 2 or 4 legged critters was in the mix. But a box of 357 mag or 38 SPL are right at 2 pounds, while a box of 50 22 Lr is 1/3 of a pound.

[onelight]

I like this class of guns and there are a lot of good choices .
For my use I prefer adjustable sights or at least dovetailed the sights and a good trigger , these usually are going to determine the distance I can connect reliably with a quarter sized target .
In the past I have used a variety of small autos and revolvers in the “KIT GUN” niche and collected a lot of small game with them.
My favorites today :bigsmyl2: are a Ruger adjustable sight bearcat , sp101s in 327 or 357 the 4.2” single seven 45/8 and a Bersa thunder 22 and a S&W. Mod.63
The one I carry depends on where I am going and what my primary purpose is for going there. It seems these days it’s more thinking about doing it than doing it.

[charlie b]

I think we have an opportunity here. I would wager that the folks responding to this thread have at least a couple of centuries of time spent hunting, fishing camping and wood bumming. So why don't we set out our criteria for what a kit gun should be. I am not talking about caliber or type of gun but what criteria are we looking for? What size / weight requirements? does the weight include ammunition ie gun and 50 rounds of ammo weighing not more than _____. What purpose is the kit gun to serve? plinking ? Small game for camp? fun shooting?......

I read an article written after WWII where the author championed the many surplus .32 autos for the kit gun role. His accuracy standard was a group the size of a 50 cent piece at (IIRC) 50 feet. Soooo what say you all? What characteristics, accuracy, portability, power, etc. does our kit gun need? Do these things change west of the Mississippi?

I thought that was what we were doing. At least that is what I consider the definition of a Kit Gun.

If my Colt 1903 was not so rust prone, then it would have been an ideal kit gun for many as well. More accurate than I was with the .32ACP and very low recoil. I had some good sights installed on it (it had been refinished at least once). The size made it a joy to shoot. The only reason I got rid of it was trying to find the brass after shooting it. :)

But, I include slightly larger targets for my field (kit) gun so a 9mm or .38spl is a minimum for me (larger than squirrel, smaller than man). .38spl has an added benefit of taking a decent size shot load for snakes as well as being able to use very light loads for plinking/rodents.

Yes, light and handy are two of the other criteria (which is why I like the 3" revolvers), and weatherproof (days of rain without cleaning) is the other big one.

[Thumbcocker]

I actually let a Glock 19 audition for kit gun but it didnt make the grade.

[GhostHawk]

I have you might say a kit gun in each of my vehicles. In both cases Phoenix Arm's HP-22 in .22lr. Wifes has the short barrel. Mine has a longer barrel. Fixed sights, 10 rounds per mag. Both guns live in zippered cases with 2 loaded mags neither one in the gun. Leaving the gun unloaded, chamber empty. Also there is a 100 round box of ammo. Both zippered cases fit in the drivers door pocket.

I have practiced, I need somewhere between 10 and 15 seconds to slam home a mag and rack the action. At that point it is ready to rock and roll. In 2 years neither has ever been shot anywhere but at the range. I had a neighbor who was a vet, army ranger, 14 years service, 3 tours in the sandbox. He loved it, called it the james bond gun.

My other kit gun is a H&R 732 double/single action in .32sw long, 2.5" barrel. At 20 feet it will give my 6" Ruger NMSS a tough fight.
The ruger wins eventually, but the little H&R is good. It also lives in a small zippered bag with a speed loader and a 100 round box of ammo and a IWB holster. If I am going to carry, that's what I carry.

The 2 .22lr I have about 250$ in the pair, very reasonable. The H&R was I think 230$ with FFL fee and shipping.

Fun stuff.

Funny my army ranger neighbor was having trouble hitting the broad side of the barn with the H&R.

So I loaded it, took classic one handed duelers stance, fired 6 shots quickly, all inside the 1" circle on a stick on bullseye.

I brought the target back from 20 feet. He looked, his eyes got big. He looked again. "How in heck you do dat"

LOL, "I used the Force man" It was a perfect double triangle, one point up, one down, wide sides almost touching.

"Where you learn to shoot like that"

I'm an ol farm boy, you don't hit what your shooting at you don't eat.
That and practice.

[onelight]

Seems like i remember a story from one of Elmer Kieths books where he gave his son a 22/32 kit gun he was a smoke jumper , and apparently it could take a day or two to walk out some times so he had the 22 to get dinner.

[Goldstar225]

My kit gun is a 3" S&W model 60-15 Pro series. I would have preferred the standard 60-15 with the full lug barrel but couldn't find one. I wanted accuracy, light weight, and compact size. The 60-15 delivers that in spades and is virtually unnoticed in a Bianchi 5BHL hip holster. While I mostly carry .38 loads (with two shotshells up first in the field) it gives me the option to use .357 if I chose to. It is very nearly as accurate as my S&W model 15 but is 2/3 the weight.

[RJM52]

Petrol....nice outcome for all your diligence....

FYI, there were early pencil barrel Model 64 Smiths...a friend of mine who worked as a security guard back in the 1970s had one... He just sold it about two years ago...was in mint condition...

My two favorite Kit Guns are the S&W 60-10 .357 Magnum with adjustable sights and the Taurus Titanium Tracker .41 Magnum. I used to carry a couple of different .22s but after due consideration about what I may have to shoot with the gun, I decided that a centerfire made more sense.

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[Petrol & Powder]

The consensus for cartridge seems to be hovering around .22 LR, 32 S&W Long, 38 Special - which makes perfect sense.

The advent of the .327 Federal and the Ruger SP101 chambered for that cartridge may turn out to be a game changer. I wish the SP101 was a tad lighter but the option of 32 S&W Long and two different magnum cartridges in the same stainless, compact gun is attractive.

The .22 gets a lot of love and that makes sense. You get a lot more ammunition in the same size/weight as the larger rounds. The S&W Model 63 embodies just about every trait that one would want - chambered in 22LR, stainless construction, small frame, good sights. But then we have the lighter weight options with some of the alloy frames but those tend to have some carbon steel parts.

The 38 Special has the biggest penalty in terms of the weight of the ammunition but shines in terminal performance. The 32's and 38 Special cartridges are reloadable, which isn't a consideration in the woods but is a consideration at home. I think if I was in Char-Gar's position in a very remote area for weeks at a time; I would want more ammo for the same weight. The 22LR is the winner in that scenario. Reloading cartridges would not be a consideration at all. However, change the situation to one in which you return to home every day and the reloading option becomes relevant.

The 32 calibers (32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Mag, 327 Federal) may be the best of both worlds. Small/light ammunition and reloadable cartridges. I wish there were a few more options in those calibers.

Thanks to all for the discussion - Keep it going.

[Petrol & Powder]

RMJ52 - If I had ever come across a model 64 with a pencil barrel - I likely would have stopped my search right there. At one point I actually considered having a model 64 barrel turned down. The other option that I seriously considered was finding a model 67 and modifying the rear sight to something snag-proof and only adjustable with a file.

Something along the lines of your model 60-10 was also very much in the running.

[onelight]

If hunting with a center fire , my kit gun is usually rim fire . If not the kit is a center fire.
I have to admit a lot of this comes from when I would try to justify to myself , why I " NEED " another gun :bigsmyl2:

[Gray Fox]

There's a 3" model 60 Ladysmith on a local gun board, but he wants $700 for it. Not today. GF

[glaciers]

Larry, I sent you a PM with a question about coatings just wondering if you received it.
John

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, I sent you a PM with a question about coatings just wondering if you received it.
John

My bad, got it during the week my internet was down (blown router) and missed it on the smart phone. Will PM you.

Sent PM

[MT Gianni]

I think we have an opportunity here. I would wager that the folks responding to this thread have at least a couple of centuries of time spent hunting, fishing camping and wood bumming. So why don't we set out our criteria for what a kit gun should be. I am not talking about caliber or type of gun but what criteria are we looking for? What size / weight requirements? does the weight include ammunition ie gun and 50 rounds of ammo weighing not more than _____. What purpose is the kit gun to serve? plinking ? Small game for camp? fun shooting? I don't think of a kit gun as protection from bad guys? If I knew I was going to a gun fight I would probably call in sick. Also I don't really need to protect myself from bears. The last critter that showed aggression towed me was a half grown raccoon who got his foot caught in the bird feeder. The ungrateful little sucker growled and charged me after I got his foot loose.. He was repelled with a swift kick from a tactical croc. The next most recent critter that got annoyed with me was a large sow at a hunting ranch. She was upset about my role in the demise of some of her kin. But in that case I was hunting with a .44 magnum.


I read an article written after WWII where the author championed the many surplus .32 autos for the kit gun role. His accuracy standard was a group the size of a 50 cent piece at (IIRC) 50 feet. Soooo what say you all? What characteristics, accuracy, portability, power, etc. does our kit gun need? Do these things change west of the Mississippi?

Living in Western MT where both species of bear are possible my "Kit guns" are only for short day trips in areas that bears are rare in. My 4" DW 357 gets some carry but it is the heaviest gun I like for these trips. On a motorcycle or 4 wheeler the 32 long or H&R just fit together well. Either will anchor a grouse, [legal in MT], where the 327 Fed would tear them up and 22 lr would have too many fly offs. The 38's are fun accurate and brass is found almost anywhere or used to be. I feel much more confidant with 150 + gr of anything in a social situation than with 90-100 gr. I am late to the 40 S&W but like the 175 gr at nearly 900 fps from a 3" gun that is the size of my palm.

[Petrol & Powder]

..................The 38's are fun accurate and brass is found almost anywhere or used to be. I feel much more confidant with 150 + gr of anything in a social situation than with 90-100 gr. I am late to the 40 S&W but like the 175 gr at nearly 900 fps from a 3" gun that is the size of my palm.



/\ I concur and I'll add a bit:
The 38 Special is an extremely versatile round and while the brass isn't nearly as prevalent as it once was; it's hardly rare. With a revolver you tend to recover most of your spent casings and 38 Special cases will go through a lot of reloading cycles before the case mouth splits. I easily have over 1K 38 Special casings and I tend to accumulate more than I lose.
I also concur that for social situations, with a revolver, I want something over 150 grains. So there's another plus for the that platform in my eyes.

As to the 40 S&W .......there's no doubt that round packs a lot of power and some of the guns that are chambered for it are very handy. However, I never warmed up to the 40 S&W. I don't dislike it or disparage it, I just never really embraced it. I have a Glock 23 and that's about the smallest pistol in 40 S&W that I can shoot well. There's no dispute that it is light, compact and durable. It's just not my favorite cartridge.

[sparkyv]

+1 on the M63.

246364

[Outpost75]

Love the discussion.

Started with .22s, went through a succession of S&W Model 34, 43, 51, 63 kit guns. Airweight Model 43 .22 LR was most accurate of the bunch, but not durable with high velocity ammo. Model 51 in .22 WMR was overly destructive of table game and with extra .22 LR cylinder was not accurate. Model 63 had multiple problems. Sold them all and got a Ruger Single Six Convertible which I still have, best of the rimfires.

When the .32 H&R Mag. came out got a Single Six in that caliber, used it both with .32 H&R Mags and .32 S&W Longs, loved it. Passed it on as a gift to a nephew, got a Colt Police Positive in .32 Colt NP which I still have and love after some gunsmith tweaking.

After 9/11 I rethought my EDC guns. Decided that I wanted at least a .38 Special because I wanted decent SD potential with small game accuracy. Have since accumulated a bunch of sturdy .38 Special former cop guns, because when the Dems get the Whitehouse again, the semi autos and high cap mags will likely go away. Politicially correct 6-shot revolvers will be in high demand and expensive, so I am hoarding them now. A dozen or so seems about right. I have Airweights in 2" and 4", steel frame M&Ps in 2" 4" and 6" and Colt Official Police in 3", 4" and 6". Yeah, they did make some 3 inchers, ever seen one? Then there are the S&W .38-44 Heavy Duty, Ruger Speed Six, Service Six, etc. Have them all in .38 Spl. and .357. Can't have too many. Oh yeah, and gotta have at least one .38/.357 lever gun to replace that AR which they will bring under NFA the first chance they get.

[Snow ninja]

I agree with what was said above for the .327 mag. It has proven to be a great all around gun and cartridge in the SP101. We had, for a time, a GP-100 and a Blackhawk in it to. But they were just too big. The versatility in the different cartridges is a major plus. That .327 is a pretty potent round. It's my choice now for a kit gun.

[Drm50]

I live in Ohio and don't worry about running into anything a 22lr won't handle. Besides hunting and fishing and some farming and logging I spend a lot of time in the woods when I'm not engaged in hunting. I have been looking for the perfect kit gun for years. My specs are accurracy and weight/ bulk. I have had about every decent 22lr on 32 frame. Some shot pretty good but even on sand bags I never had one that would shoot into a half dollar at 50'. Stock about the best I found in auto loader was the 422 S&W with adjustable sights. Besides being able to tune adj.sights generally provide better sight picture. This is a plus when you are shooting at things that are against woodland back grounds. I do believe a fixed sight pistol that shoots to the point of aim is the best you can get as long as you stay with the ammo it prints.

I've had several 32 & 38 autos that shot very well off bags. The tiny sights are against them. If one would go to the trouble to have a good set of sights mounted you may have a good kit gun.

I keep going back to a m34 S&W 4", m63 is just as good but I don't like SS. I tried a m34 snubby which shot well off bags but I couldn't shoot it well enough to suit myself. I have a dozen top shelf 22 pistols and revolvers but don't want a full size gun hanging on me while I'm not using it as the primary hunting gun. I just carry HVHPs for everything. The occasional copper head is no problem with HPs. If you are close enough to shoot a snake with shot you will have no problem hitting it with a bullet.

[tazman]

Every place is different and has it's own challenges. During my lifetime, I have had close encounters with coyotes, wild dogs, and a cougar, all right here in west central Illinois.
I was fortunate that the cougar didn't want anything to do with me. Our meeting was just an accident for both of us with no harm done on either side(other than an accelerated heart rate).
The dogs and coyotes, I didn't need to kill since they didn't like the sound of a gun firing, although I wasn't sure about that for a bit.
When I walk in the woods, I carry something that will deal with these animals if necessary. For me, it is a 357 revolver.

[Dale53]

This subject is dear to my heart. Early on, I became dissatisfied with the .22 Rimfire as a "proper" edible small game gun. Standard velocity solids lacked stopping power and the high speed hollow points damaged too much meat.

My "ideal" choices became either a .32 caliber or .38 caliber in a compact revolver with my own cast bullets and reloads. After a variety of revolvers passed through my hands, here is what I have ended up with:

S&W Model 631 (a SS with 4" barrel and adjustable sights on a "J" frame with my much loved Pachmayr grips in caliber .32 H&R Mag):

https://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0330.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0330.jpg.html)

When the S&W Model 60-4 hit the market, I nearly broke my arm getting my money out. The only reservation I had, was that it was "limited" to a 3" barrel:

https://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-0242.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-0242.jpg.html)

Right after I got my .32 H&R magnum revolvers (I also had picked up a 6" S&W 16-4) Federal stopped selling components to reloaders. That left me with no choice but to buy factory loads for brass. After that "slap in the face" from Federal, it got worse! The Federal factory brass was JUNK! I would get several side splits in the cases (like five or six) every time I shot a box of fifty). In self defense, I procured a supply of once fired S&W Long brass and my brass problems disappeared. Edible small game can be handled nicely at velocities easily obtained in the shorter case in a strong revolver. So, the .32 S&W Long and as well as the .32 H&R Mag are perfectly suited to edible small game in a light, weather resistant, platform (in this case a SS "J" frame revolver). I prefer to drive my home cast bullets to reasonable velocities. Magnum loads are not only not needed, since I prefer to hunt without ear protection, I load well under supersonic sound levels.

A short time later, Starline started producing .32 H&R brass and that truly solved the brass problem. Starline makes EXCELLENT brass.

After I picked up my 60-4 I had some .38 wadcutter's already loaded. It was bitterly cold weather, so I headed to our club's fifty foot indoor range. Several of the active pistol shooters were on hand. I sighted the revolver in off a makeshift rest and was pleasantly surprised at how well the 60-4 shot with my full charge wadcutters. Then, I put up a timed fire target and could not believe how well I was able to shoot this "snubby". It turned out that I was able to shoot the .38 Special 60-4 a bit better than my longer sight radiused 631.

I have carried that 60-4 on many a serious bird hunting trip as a side gun to my Beretta over/under when hunting grouse in Eastern Ohio as well as the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. A full charge wadcutter will handily take sitting cottontail rabbits and snowshoe rabbits as well as a wounded or sitting grouse. Worn cross draw, it is out of the way of the shotgun, yet available instantly.

I have not ignored my .32's, tho', and will cheerfully carry either in the field. The .38 Wadcutter would be more useful against coyotes and feral dogs. Further, I load .38 shot cartridges that are quite useful when back packing in snake country (my backpacking days included a LOT of time in the Kentucky and Tennessee mountains that were known to produce LARGE ratttlesnakes). I also did a LOT of canoeing in water moccasin country, too.

FWIW
Dale53

[JoeJames]

+1 on the M63.

246364

I agree. I've had mine for 20 or 30 years. Over time the trigger pull is down to about 2 1/2 pounds.

[Petrol & Powder]

Dale53 - That model 631 is a SWEET rig. I'm envious.

[Dale53]

One thing has always puzzled me. How can a relatively small operation compared to the manufacturers, afford to put "Special Models" on the market and make money on them but manufacturers don't seem to want to market them themselves. It hardly makes sense to me. I am thinking of rather small markets that JUMP on Ruger Flattop .44 Specials, etc.

I can only hope that some of the distributors that put Special models out, will get Smith to make another run of the 631's and 60-4's, etc. for those small game and woods walkers who weren't around when the originals hit the market.

I do agree, though, that Smith "K" frame Model 14's and 15's can make dandy guns for that purpose. The surplus Model 15's "ex" law enforcement tools are a perfect example. That market of reasonably priced ex-law enforcement tools has been mentioned by several people in the early posts on this thread. My take on it is if a beat cop can carry such a tool all day and every day, so can I in the field. I do admit that my "perfect" choices pictured above are more in line with a "Kit Gun"...

P&P, yeah those 631's DO work quite well in the role, that is for sure...

FWIW
Dale53

[Green Frog]

I'm surprised it took Mr 53 this long to chime in! We've had many a chat about the whole concept of the Kit Gun, including what size is big enough but not too big, what caliber(s) would be appropriate. I'm still in love with that 4" Model 631 even though I have the twin to the Model 60-4. If I had to "grab and go" I would feel perfectly well equipped with the 38, and if I could only have one or the other it would probably be the 38, but there is still a soft spot in my heart (head??) for the 32 H&R. With a little creative loading it can do just about anything I would actually ask of the 38 Spl. The only disadvantage being that I can't walk into Wally World and find the 32s on the shelf like I can the 38s! Don't tell Dale53 I had anything good to say about the 32 H&R though, he knows my real love is the 327 Fed Mag (just not in a little J-frame!)

Froggie

[Hickory]

I have a S&W 631 also and it was the perfect gun for potting 3 grouse in Colorado while I was elk hunting back in the 90's.
1.2grs. of Bullseye with a .315 round ball makes little noise and is accurate to 40-50 feet.9

[ddixie884]

I shoot more .38spl handloads from a police trade in M15-3 than any other platform but I bought a M12 4" sq butt a few years ago with a kit type role in mind. It is light and handy but I limit it to standard pressures. If S&W would build a +P rated scandium K frame, it would make a really nice kit-gun........

[Dale53]

Froggie;
I knew that you were just hiding your love for the .32 H&R. Everyone knows that the .32 H&R is THE edible small game gun amongst the .32's It is also LOADS of fun on the range.:bigsmyl2:

FWIW
Dale53

[Green Frog]

ARRRGGHH! Now I’ll never hear the end of it! Oh well, at least now that I’ve outed myself on the H&R (still can’t bring myself to call it “Magnum”) I can actually shoot come of them next time I’m in OH... in my Ruger Blackhawk eight shooter - the “stud hoss.” It will be like shooting CB Caps! :Fire:

Froggie

[rking22]

Great thread!! I have some fascination with kit guns. Tried a 22 lr PPK in the 80s, but no joy so traded it for a M63. I did not get the accuracy I wanted so it went in trade for a Challenger. Still love the Challenger, but kinda big for a kit gun. Now there is a Rossi clone of the 63, I like it and it (or I ) is more accurate than the 63 was. A bearcat and Thundered 22 that go walking. A M31-1 4 inch 32SWL that is lighter than the bearcat, hardly know I am carrying it. A 3 inch Rossi I frame clone in 32SWL that I recently found. A single six in 32hr that is kinda big for my kit gunning uses, but fun to shoot. Got a really good deal on a 3 inch sp101 1st run 327. I like the sights on it, once I made a new front that would zero at 25 yards. Now, the current favorite is a M36-6 3 inch adjustable sight 38. Skeeter kinda designed that in an article in the mid 70s, took a while to show up. A Colt Diamond back 38 in 4 inch is nice too. Then there is a 696 that has spent a lot of time in a pocket and a Titanium 41mag. The 41 weighs the same as my 2 inch M36, till I load it. Still very light and reasonably small for 41 mag power level!!
So for criteria, based on what I seem to gravitate to, would be less than 30 oz empty, 3 to 4 inch barrel revolvers. Caliber depends on mood and likely needs. 22 for the Tennessee woods for plinking and small game. 38 to 44 for snake shot loads, or bigger game. The 41 goes deer hunting on occasion. I like fixed sights if I can get them “on” at a reasonable range but adjustable are ok too. The sp101 is kinda heavy, the Colt and 696 are a bit valuable to ride in a tackle box. Probably the same could be said for the M36-6 but It rides in a simply rugged pancake, and I like shooting it! I still can’t pick just 1....

[RJM52]

RMJ52 - If I had ever come across a model 64 with a pencil barrel - I likely would have stopped my search right there. At one point I actually considered having a model 64 barrel turned down. The other option that I seriously considered was finding a model 67 and modifying the rear sight to something snag-proof and only adjustable with a file.

Something along the lines of your model 60-10 was also very much in the running.

If you are ever looking for another one, check GunBroker...there are a dozen plus on there right now. One Seller must have bought out a security company or LE agency as he has a bunch...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/819563925

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/821003499

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/825189049

[RJM52]

I am surprized with all the "love" for the .38 Special in this role and everyone wanting a lightweight gun, that no one has mentioned the S&W Model 12... I have two of the -2s and they are so easy to carry. It will eat up all the wadcutters one wants and the occasional +P isn't going to hurt anything...

Both of mine have a round butt and the 4" pencil pencil barrel....

Bob

246415

[Petrol & Powder]

If you are ever looking for another one, check GunBroker...there are a dozen plus on there right now. One Seller must have bought out a security company or LE agency as he has a bunch...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/819563925

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/821003499

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/825189049

Well darn, that sure would have been easier !

[Petrol & Powder]

246416



I'm familiar with the model 12 but I don't have a barrel stretcher ;-)

[Outpost75]

I have a couple S&W Model 12s. They shoot well and are light as a feather.

My 4-incher came back from Germany.

246422246423246424246425

[Larry Gibson]

The basis of my understanding of a Kit Gun comes from my experience in the rain forest of Ecuador with the indigenous people. I was flown in by a light airplane to a grass strip cut from the rain forest. I was there for a week to ten days until the plane came back. I was the only white person within two weeks walk. I hunted with the men in the village using a Colt Huntsman 22 pistol that I took into Ecuador totally against the law. If I knew the way out, which I didn't it would weeks to get out. I had no ammo in the truck for there were no trucks. There were no stores when I could buy ammo or reloading componets. All I had was what I could carry in a small duffel.

.............

Char-Gar

How many 22LR rounds did you take in country?

How many rounds did you carry when on those hunts?

Discounting any practice or plinking how many rounds did you actually use?

Just interested in some real world comparison with a handgun down there. When in Central America I didn't have a handgun but had an M16A1 for which I made my "Panama Load" and used it on several hunting forays around Gatun River and Lake.

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar

How many 22LR rounds did you take in country?

How many rounds did you carry when on those hunts?

Discounting any practice or plinking how many rounds did you actually use?

Just interested in some real world comparison with a handgun down there. When in Central America I didn't have a handgun but had an M16A1 for which I made my "Panama Load" and used it on several hunting forays around Gatun River and Lake.

I took with me from the states 4 bricks (2,000) rounds. I took one brick into the rain forest and took 100 rounds with me when in the forest. I did wrap the ammo in food wrap and seal with tape. It is very humid there. I may have fired 20 all total while foraging for food on my three trips to the rain forest. I shot maybe 25 more killing rats in my backyard in Quito. It was no place for plinking as replacement ammo was not available and I didn't know how long it would be before I coud get more. I found the little 22 auto to be just as intimidating on the locals as a 45 auto. A gun is a gun to them. The rest of the ammo went, with the pistol when I sold it in country, made a bundle on it I did. In general, I am an old dude who was trained on the well placed shot. I never believed in area fire and seeing how fast I could empty the gun.

[Larry Gibson]

Excellent recap, thanks for the response.

BTW; 25 - 50 rounds was all I ever need/used in 2 - 3 weeks with numerous day "hunts" involved.

[Thumbcocker]

In keeping with the spirit of this thread I did some weighing of various firearms and ammunition to try to put numbers to the concept.

Ruger LC9s 9mm 18 ounces
Ruger Sp 101 .327 28 ounces
Rock Island 1911 compact in .45 acp 35 ounces
Ruger GP 100 3" .44 Special 36 ounces
Smith and Wesson 30-1 3" .32 long 18 0unces
Smith and Wesson 66-3 2 1/2" 33 ounces
Walther PP .22 LR 22 ounces
Smith and Wesson 63-3 4" 27 ounces

Ammo:

Remington high speed .22 LR hp 50.3 grains 140 rounds per pound
.32 long .95 grain DEWC 149.1 grains 47 rounds per pound
.32 mag. 105 RNFP 165.4 grains 42 rounds per pound
9mm loaded with Lee 125 rnfp (closer to 130 out of acww) 200.5 grains 35 rounds per pound
.45 acp 210 SWC 293.3 grains 24 rounds per pound
.38 special 151 BNWC 222.2 grains 32 rounds per pound
.357 160 RNFP 251.3 grains 28 rounds per pound
.44 special 250 SWC (closer to 255 from acww Keith Boolit) 361.6 grains or 19 rounds per pound.

The number of rounds was rounded up to the next highest number. The rounds were what I had laying around and are my more or less standard loads for the various cartridges.

[onelight]

In keeping with the spirit of this thread I did some weighing of various firearms and ammunition to try to put numbers to the concept.

Ruger LC9s 9mm 18 ounces
Ruger Sp 101 .327 28 ounces
Rock Island 1911 compact in .45 acp 35 ounces
Ruger GP 100 3" .44 Special 36 ounces
Smith and Wesson 31-1 3" .32 long 18 0unces
Smith and Wesson 66-3 2 1/2" 33 ounces
Walther PP .22 LR 22 ounces
Smith and Wesson 63-3 4" 27 ounces

Ammo:

Remington high speed .22 LR hp 50.3 grains 140 rounds per pound
.32 long .95 grain DEWC 149.1 grains 47 rounds per pound
.32 mag. 105 RNFP 165.4 grains 42 rounds per pound
9mm loaded with Lee 125 rnfp (closer to 130 out of acww) 200.5 grains 35 rounds per pound
.45 acp 210 SWC 293.3 grains 24 rounds per pound
.38 special 151 BNWC 222.2 grains 32 rounds per pound
.357 160 RNFP 251.3 grains 28 rounds per pound
.44 special 250 SWC (closer to 255 from acww Keith Boolit) 361.6 grains or 19 rounds per pound.

The number of rounds was rounded up to the next highest number. The rounds were what I had laying around and are my more or less standard loads for the various cartridges.
Thanks good info. Things to be considered .

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, good info to consider.

As a "kit gun" to me is a small companion gun I keep coming back to my S&W M30 with 3" barrel in 32 S&WL. With it, 4 speed loaders and a 20 round belt ammo carrier I'm comfortable with 50 rounds for it. The 32 S&WL with my 90 gr SWC loads (very safe for the M30) has proven to be a lot more effect than the 22LR cartridge out of a similar handgun. The 32, to me anyway, is plenty good enough for small game for the pot of eliminating vermin.

It also is a gun and 2 legged vermin don't ask what cartridge it is when it's presented. No, it's not the best for self protection against them or bears, cougars, etc. but I've usually a rifle or shotgun with me when carrying the 32 S&WL M30. If just carrying a handgun where it may be needed for SD then I do carry something bigger, most often a .44 or .45.

[Char-Gar]

Light weight is not the Holy Grail of Kit Guns. Any handgun must have enough heft to hold steady on target. There are always compromises.

[onelight]

Light weight is not the Holy Grail of Kit Guns. Any handgun must have enough heft to hold steady on target. There are always compromises.
Yup what he said.
Small guns are hard to shoot well small light are harder . If I cant get against something to steady my aim range to hit small targets is very short. If my primary purpose for being in the woods is to hunt I have a bigger gun . The kit gun is secondary for me.

[Outpost75]

My experience over the years has substantiated to me that 20-oz. is a practical maximum for pocket carry. A 2-pound combined weight of revolver, basic, simple holster and ammunition is a useful planning standard for a kit gun. Longer sight radius helps, as do a Tyler T-grip on service stocks or better hand-filling grips.

Your mileage may vary, but to me near-perfection a 4" Airweight S&W Model 12 K-frame .38 Special, or pencil-barrel 3" or 4" Colt D-frame Detective Special, Police Positive or Cobra in .38 Special with wadcutters. Also good are a 3" S&W Model 30, 31, 36, 33, 60, etc. any of which fill the bill rather nicely.

I prefer center-fires in .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W or .38 Special to any rimfires. More reliable ignition and greater smash. But, I don't foresee any threat of extended firefights with Secret Squirrels, or rabid Bunny Wabbits, so six rounds in the gun and 12-18 rounds of spare ammo carried in speed strips or zippered CountyComm keycase in pockets are adequate for most weekend outings.

As Mentor Jerry would say, Just my opinion.

[Thumbcocker]

I have been very pleased with these for carrying extra rounds. The .22 ones hold 30 rounds. Unfortunately they aren't made in .32. They are made in .38-.357 though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190811/f2d7b2a758e5edbf82efdec8f3e1687c.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Rodfac]

Great thread...and with so many ideas and suggestions. Here's a cpl of mine. My wife and I share a M60 .357 with a 3" bbl. and also a M36 with the same bbl. length. Either makes up into a nice companion when loafing about the farm, or on the trail. Loaded with Lyman's 35891 WC, they make a great plinking and target punching gun while still laying a claim to SD use. With the right loads, they're comfortable to shoot for an hour's session on the range and neither will sag your belt line when worn on the hip.

But just recently, I dug into the back corner of the safe and retrieved my uncle's plant guard side arm: a Colt Police Positive in .38 Colt New Police along with another one in .32 Colt New Police...light at 20 oz or so, either has the accuracy that's necessary for fun use while plinking or close in shots on bunnies or grouse. The pic below features the .38 and with ammunition that's at least 60+ years old. Both need some filing on the front sight to get their groups centered but either will do the job.

Lastly, and like Froggie and Dale, I'm a .32L and/or .32 H&R fan. My two Rugers in .32 H&R are both tack drivers with the right ammunition (did I mention RCBS's 98 gr LSWC mold) and a modest charge of Unique? The smaller of the two is a Bird's Head with the shorter bbl., and carries a bit better than the 5-1/2" model...but both are equally accurate, easily holding on a 50 cent piece at 15+ yds if I'm having a "good eyes" day. Great thread guys and a good read...thanks, Rod

https://i.postimg.cc/SsT6NYNv/IMG-0244.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Buzz Krumhunger]

If you can live with the homely appearance, a Ruger LCRX 38 with the adjustable sight and 3”(?) barrel makes a lightweight, easy to tote Kit Gun.

[onelight]

If you can live with the homely appearance, a Ruger LCRX 38 with the adjustable sight and 3”(?) barrel makes a lightweight, easy to tote Kit Gun.
It looks like it would be great we have the lcr but I have no experience with 3" lcrx. I need to rent one and try it out..

[modified5]

Great thread! My kit gun right now is a Ruger SP101 with a 3 inch barrel in .357. I couldn't pass it up for the price. $300. It was like new. I like that I can carry both .38 or .357 if needed. I cast the Lee 158 rnfp and it shoots great out of it. I could also take my S&W M&P in 9mm. It is light and deadly accurate. That is my main SD gun. Or there are various .22's. Hmm, so many guns, so little time.

[Petrol & Powder]

My experience over the years has substantiated to me that 20-oz. is a practical maximum for pocket carry. A 2-pound combined weight of revolver, basic, simple holster and ammunition is a useful planning standard for a kit gun. Longer sight radius helps, as do a Tyler T-grip on service stocks or better hand-filling grips.

Your mileage may vary, but to me near-perfection a 4" Airweight S&W Model 12 K-frame .38 Special, or pencil-barrel 3" or 4" Colt D-frame Detective Special, Police Positive or Cobra in .38 Special with wadcutters. Also good are a 3" S&W Model 30, 31, 36, 33, 60, etc. any of which fill the bill rather nicely.

I prefer center-fires in .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W or .38 Special to any rimfires. More reliable ignition and greater smash. But, I don't foresee any threat of extended firefights with Secret Squirrels, or rabid Bunny Wabbits, so six rounds in the gun and 12-18 rounds of spare ammo carried in speed strips or zippered CountyComm keycase in pockets are adequate for most weekend outings.

As Mentor Jerry would say, Just my opinion.

That's in line with my thoughts. .22 RF has a place but a larger, flat nosed bullet of a centerfire seems a bit more useful overall.
A 4" Model 12 with a tapered barrel would be ideal, if you can find one. One of the Colt airweights would be a good substitute, although they are approaching the stratosphere in terms of price these days.

Any of the J-frames chambered in 32 S&W long with a 4" barrel and a Tyler T-grip would be great. A steel frame in that little J-frame configuration wouldn't add enough weight to matter and I'm with Char-Gar, a little extra weight might even be desirable at that point.

[JoeJames]

Another Smith I thought I'd throw into the mix is my S&W Model 317 in 22LR. It has been a good little hip pocket woods carry revolver. And over the years the trigger pull has honed down to 3 pounds. It is more accurate than you would expect.

246670

[NorthMoccasin]

Love this thread! I have been taking the kit gun "journey" since 1968 or so when I picked up a S&W m35. Traded it for a m-34 as more portable, but I still mourn that m-35! Still have the m-34, its a keeper. at the moment I have the above mentioned m-34, a 4" m31 38S&W, a 4" M-30 32 long, a 3" m-60-10, a 4.2" sp101 357, and a Ruger 32 H&R SSM 4 5/8. all get carried around the homestead, depending on my mood.

[Old School Big Bore]

I actually let a Glock 19 audition for kit gun but it didnt make the grade.

"Don't call us, Babe, we'll call you!"
-Sugarloaf

[Outpost75]

The Original Kit Gun, Colt Frontier Six Shooter 5-1/2" .44-40, this one made 1905:

261893

[EMC45]

Another Smith I thought I'd throw into the mix is my S&W Model 317 in 22LR. It has been a good little hip pocket woods carry revolver. And over the years the trigger pull has honed down to 3 pounds. It is more accurate than you would expect.

246670

I remember these and looking at them. I had a 63 (gone now) in those days and never thought to get one of these. I remember they were super light. Like a cap gun.

[Drew P]

The Original Kit Gun:

246800
Look at that beauty!
I find it interesting all this talk about a kit gun being a revolver. The logical choice would be a poly frames automatic would it not? Less weight, more reliability, more shots stored inside the weapon. Only downside would be if needing huge knock down power for killing elk or bear or something. Not that I’m against the idea, but my kit gun is a Glock, and a ruger PCC, both in 9mm.

Shoot, I didn’t mean to interject that kind of contrary opinion, so please don’t respond. I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.

[Outpost75]

Look at that beauty!... I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.

When weather permits I'll shoot some groups with vintage 1930s WRA and Rem-UMC balloon-head factory rounds, as well as some black powder, cast bullet handloads, and pattern a few of my home-made shot loads assembled in Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases. Father of previous owner used the gun to feed the family during the Depression. Made in 1906. Used to kill everything from bunnies to Bad Guys.

[onelight]

Look at that beauty!
I find it interesting all this talk about a kit gun being a revolver. The logical choice would be a poly frames automatic would it not? Less weight, more reliability, more shots stored inside the weapon. Only downside would be if needing huge knock down power for killing elk or bear or something. Not that I’m against the idea, but my kit gun is a Glock, and a ruger PCC, both in 9mm.

Shoot, I didn’t mean to interject that kind of contrary opinion, so please don’t respond. I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.
That's a good point . Revolvers have some advantages to my way of thinking for the kit gun role they can shoot really light loads for small game and the same gun can shoot long heavy bullets for big game , they don't pitch your brass out in the weeds and most importantly revolver kit guns give us a reason to have more guns.:bigsmyl2:

[Dale53]

I think mentioning the automatic as a possible kit gun is certainly in order. However, even tho' I carried some .22 Auto's in my early days, the .22 was rejected by me in favor of centerfires. The centerfire autos pitched brass everywhere, most small autos weren't accurate enough for small game (at least for me) and most had less than perfect triggers, etc. I can remember one of my Dad's early small autos. It was in .380. The standard factory load in those days, was a jacketed round nose, of course. I can remember shooting that at an old farm gate, that was probably built from oak timber from the farm. It was a nominal 1" oak board. Shot at point blank range, to check penetration, the bullet just buried itself flush in the board. My standard full charge wadcutter in a .38 Special blew right through the board...

Sounds ridiculous, but it is a true statement. After, that, coupled with it's sorry sights, I lost all interest in pursuing that.

The kit gun, for me, was a walk around edible small game gun that could be called upon for somewhat more strenuous duty (feral dogs were the most dangerous in my area of the country - although those two legged feral dogs, I suppose could present a problem). The .32's and .38's handled all of my needs.

I do admit that using bigger calibers worked quite well, too, if a good bit bulkier and heavier. Frankly, size didn't make much difference to me unless I was carrying a long gun rifle or shotgun) then it became more important.

FWIW
Dale53

[Drew P]

When weather permits I'll shoot some groups with vintage 1930s WRA and Rem-UMC balloon-head factory rounds, as well as some black powder, cast bullet handloads, and pattern a few of my home-made shot loads assembled in Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases. Father of previous owner used the gun to feed the family during the Depression. Made in 1906. Used to kill everything from bunnies to Bad Guys.
Yep, I have one in 32-20 from 1898, it was me great great grandfathers. Now that you mention the downside of crappy triggers in autos, I have to admit that the old 32-20 SAA did check all the OP’s boxes really, as it has a beautiful trigger and as a small rifle caliber handgun it was quite accurate, and the diminutive ammo could be carried in bulk easily. I’d probably have better chances eating squirrel with it than with my Glock that’s for sure.
Has anyone made a repro SAA in stainless? Can’t say I’ve seen that

[Larry in MT]

I carry a handgun most days (around the farm) and am always on the lookout for an "even better" packin' pistol.

I first carried a flat-gate Ruger in 22LR.

Then an old model Ruger (6 1/2") in 22 Magnum.

Then a Standard Ruger semi-auto (4").

Then a 6" Model 17 no dash (a 22 revolver made by S&W).

Then an old model Ruger Blackhawk in .357 (6 1/2").

Then, for a long time, a S&W Model 34 (22LR). I put a zillion miles on this one, by motorcycle, horse, 4 wheeler, and on foot. I carried it Elk hunting for a couple decades and shot "Fool Hens" that were so plentiful at the time.

Then a S&W Model 60 w/adj. sights (a 2" .38 Special).

Then a Ruger BearCat that almost cured me forever of buying fixed sighted handguns.

Now I carry a S&W M&P 22 Compact. It weighs 1 pound, never falters, has a terrible trigger but I can still group pretty well with it. It probably won't be the last one, either.

We have Griz all Spring and Summer now, and I go out on the 4 wheeler a lot. For a while I carried a Ruger New Model flattop in 44 Special w/heavily loaded hardcasts but it was more weight/bulk than I prefer to deal with. I still carry the Model 60 on fishing trips unless it's bad Griz country. Then I carry a Model 629 Classic (5') with heavily loaded .44 mag hardcasts.

[Texas by God]

Mine is a m15 S&W Combat Masterpiece with 4" barrel most days, but my 5-1/2" Ruger Single Six is a trusted companion as well. I'll be in the Rockies this week and my Ruger P97.45auto will be with me there, if needed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[charlie b]

Look at that beauty!
I find it interesting all this talk about a kit gun being a revolver. The logical choice would be a poly frames automatic would it not? Less weight, more reliability, more shots stored inside the weapon. Only downside would be if needing huge knock down power for killing elk or bear or something. Not that I’m against the idea, but my kit gun is a Glock, and a ruger PCC, both in 9mm.

Shoot, I didn’t mean to interject that kind of contrary opinion, so please don’t respond. I’d rather talk about wheel guns anyway.

Not at all. Some of us have carried semi-autos in the field a lot more often than revolvers. My current 'fishing' pistol is in 9mmMak. Cheap and accurate. I don't have to worry about it getting wet or ruining the finish. 9mmMak is not a very versatile caliber but it works. My pistol does not function reliably with less than normal loads. FWIW, Buffalo Bore sells some 'heavy' ammo for it (115gn cast 1000fps). They thump the hand pretty good.

[vonfilm]

To me a kit gun has a small frame and should weigh no more than about 25 oz. A K frame is just too big.
I had a nice nickle plated Mod. 34 4" but it always had sticky ejection and I sold it.
Now I have a Taurus Mod. 327 which gives the versatility of 5 different cartridges, .32ACP, .32S&W, .32S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .327 Federal Magnum. This covers everything from self defense to small game in a J frame size package. Mine has a 2" barrel. I was able to pick this up new a few years ago for $249. I would prefer a 3" barrel and adjustable sights.
Handloads from round balls to JHP are possible. Tremendous variation in cast boolits can be used. I am watching for a deal on a SP101 in .327 to get the longer barrel and adjustable sights.
I have a Beretta Model 81 on the way to arrive next week to go along with my Tomcat. These might be the best in auto kit guns.

[rking22]

Not an 81 but a M84

257927

I still prefer revolvers of the J frame size but the Beretta 81 series are very nice and accurate, especially the M86. There was a Gun Digest article about a M84 in kit gun role.
I’m looking forward to playing around with my new M81, waiting to get my bras containment right, those 32s are tiny! I hate the way bottom feeders sling my brass everwhere, forget about finding any of it in the woods. Revolvers just drop them in my hand when I am ready, much more polite.

[rintinglen]

There are some pretty heavy guns being touted as kit guns. To my way of thinking, a kit gun with at least 2 reloads should weigh less than 2 pounds. It should have a barrel at least 3 inches long, but more is better.
To me, that lets out the steel K-Frames, the 1911’s, most of the wonder nines and the fantastic plastic pistols and for excludes 1873 Colt Single Actions. Most steel framed 22 auto loaders will have a hard time making the cut as well.
But there are a bunch of others that are exemplary. The fine old Police Positives in virtually any caliber they were offered in are just fine. My 6 inch 32-20 weighs only 28 ounces fully loaded with 100 grain ammo. 12 more rounds would bring it right up to the limit, but a 4 inch barreled version, would be an ounce or two lighter. The Browning 1911-22 is a dandy, mine weighs just over a pound, and even with a spare mag, and 50 rounds of ammunition comes in under two pounds. My beloved Colt Woodsman weighs 28 ounces, leaving 4 ounces for 30 odd rounds of 22’s and still making weight. And then there are the namesakes, S&W’s I and j-frames. I have a M-63 4 inch that rides on my hip on occasion, as well as a Model 60-18, a 5 inch 5 shot version chambered for .357 magnum. It tips the scales at 24 1/2 ounces and still makes weight with 15 rounds of 38 +P 125 grain Hollow Points. There are a slew of fine old 32.s that fit the bill, but I still hold that the true Kit Gun is a handgun that weighs less than 2 pounds with at least 2 reloads, is accurate enough to snipe a squirrel or a bunny at 60 feet, and is compact enough to be carried without interfering with your other stuff. Carry other stuff if you want, especially if you are more concerned with 2 legged varmints than 4, but don’t tell anybody your PDW is a kit gun

[charlie b]

I like your idea of a weight criteria and am also partial to 3" or longer barrels.

But, two reloads of a 5 shot revolver means 15 rounds total. That's what the mag holds in many compact semi-autos (like my HK VP9). Two reloads means 45 rounds for that pistol! So, I would modify the criteria to be a certain total number of rounds to put everything on common ground weight wise. Something like a CZ82/83 will meet your 2lb limit with the 12rnd mag, 15rnd in .32acp (and they are all steel). Several sub-compact 9mm pistols also have double stack magazines. Even my old S&W 469 (alloy frame) had a 12rnd mag (13rnd with one in the chamber) and was within your limit.

[rintinglen]

But can you snipe a bunny with them?;)

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree that weight is a consideration. In a perfect world that 2 pound limit would be a good goal, however, in the real world that's a hard limit to make.

A Colt Police Positive in 32 or Police Positive Special in 38 Special gets pretty close to that weight limit.
A 4" S&W model 12 absolutely will make the cut, but they are a bit hard to find these days.
A S&W model 10 with a tapered barrel will exceed that arbitrary limit but not by much. When fitted with a 4" tapered barrel the K-frame isn't as light as a Police Positive Special but it's still fairly handy. When the same gun is fitted with a heavy barrel it is noticeably heavier.

Now a S&W J-frame with a 3" or 4" barrel will make the limit in either 32 Long or 38 Special.

In that perfect world.......I would want a stainless steel J-frame, Square butt, with synthetic grips, chambered in 32 S&W long with a tapered 4" barrel and decent sights. I don't think that animal exists but neither does that perfect world.

[Outpost75]

These days I use a 4" S&W Model 12 with wadcutters or 158 LN cut off to flat nose in trim die. Darned near perfect.

261986

[Petrol & Powder]

Outpost75 - I'm downright envious.

[charlie b]

But can you snipe a bunny with them?;)

Yes :) Jackrabbits are even more fun.

[Green Frog]

When weather permits I'll shoot some groups with vintage 1930s WRA and Rem-UMC balloon-head factory rounds, as well as some black powder, cast bullet handloads, and pattern a few of my home-made shot loads assembled in Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases. Father of previous owner used the gun to feed the family during the Depression. Made in 1906. Used to kill everything from bunnies to Bad Guys.

Was the family surname of the previous owner “Hatfield” or “McCoy?” :bigsmyl2:
I’ve heard tell that there were a bunch of those hog legs being carried (and frequently used) in the hills of WV back then. ;)

Froggie

[vonfilm]

In an earlier post I said that the K frame was really too big to be a kit gun. Now I would like to suggest that an L frame I own makes a pretty good kit gun. The L frame I am referring to is the 386 Mountain Lite 7 Shot .357 magnum with the Scandium frame and Titanium Cylinder. It has a 3.125 barrel with an orange Hi-Vis Sight. Unloaded weight is only 18.5 oz. Recoil is snappy but not painful. This revolver is a delight to carry and a lot of fun to shoot.

This should be under 2 pounds with 21 rounds of .357.

[Petrol & Powder]

vonfilm - An alloy L-frame with a titanium cylinder certainly would be a lightweight L- frame. And very weather resistant, not much there to rust. Load that with 38 Special wadcutters and you would have a good woods walking gun.


I'm not sure the 2 pound limit is carved in stone but I do agree weight is factor. Of course if we go metric and use 1 kilogram as our arbitrary limit, ....we can bump that up to 35 ounces :grin:

The description of a 4" K-frame encompasses a lot of territory. A 4" model 10 with a tapered barrel weighs noticeably less than a 4" model 10 with a heavy barrel or a 4" model 66 with a shrouded lug barrel.

We have some incredible materials available in today's world, albeit often with accompanying expense.

Just think what could be produced using today's materials and manufacturing techniques:
An aluminum alloy K-frame, with a titanium cylinder and a two piece 4" barrel utilizing a stainless barrel with an aluminum shroud. Add all stainless parts such as screws, triggers, hammers, etc.; and you would have an exceptionally lightweight revolver that was nearly weather proof and capable of firing +P 38 Special ammo.
To the best of my knowledge, no such gun has been offered by a major manufacturer but it's certainly possibly with today's materials and designs.
Is anyone at S&W paying attention?

[P Flados]

I have a couple of guns that fit the kit gun role.

The 4.2" SP-101 in 327 Fed is the more capable gun of the two. I am currently using the gun for regular standing practice in the "snappy load" category. I am running a medium warm load with a powder coated 86 NLG at a Quick Load estimated 1450 fps. I am using a slightly faster powder (SW heavy Pistol - same burn rate as Blue dot or Accurate 9) than typical for full power loads. With this powder, there is a lot less flash and blast than with loads using H110. For a kit gun role, a much milder load (likely a 110 gr subsonic with fast burning powder) would be a better choice given the possibility of a discharge with no hearing protection.

The other gun is probably a better choice. A 3" LCRx in 38 SP +P purchased for my wife to shoot at the range. The gun is super light (15.7 oz). The light weight does have a downside. Recoil with standard loads was too much for her. However, she likes it fine with my "low recoil" loads of a 110 rn at ~ 700 fps. For a kit gun role, I am not sure at this point what load would be best. A 158 can provide a good punch with low blast/noise, but I am kind of partial to my Lee 120 TCs loaded to +P velocities. I would have to do some shooting out in the field with both to decide.

Both are suitable for wet service. The SP-101 is all stainless but on the heavy side, 29.5 oz. The LCRx is a mix of polymer, hard coated aluminum & stainless.

[snowwolfe]

You guys made me rethink what a kit gun is. Used to think it was a lightweight .22 double action revolver. Now I am giving some serious thought to a 4 inch 38 special with some warm loads.
Have to keep an eye out for a new toy.
Great thread.

[rking22]

All the talk about K frames has me wondering about my titanium 41mag tracker. Seemed a bit big when I carried it fishing for a while. Didn’t notice the weight at 22oz empty, in fact forgot it was back there one day till I sat on it. But just bulkier than a J frame. Never weighed it loaded but probably would make the 2 lbs with 18 rounds. Need to make some more shot loads for it.

[Petrol & Powder]

262169

I weighed this Model 10 and it comes in at 951 grams or roughly 33.5 ounces. So, empty, it's over the arbitrary 2 pound limit but only by 1 1/2 ounces. It does come in under 1 kilo.

[Outpost75]

Petrol & Powder. Agree that a kilogram is a good level and that the 2 pounds doesn't have to be chiseled in stone.

[rfd]

going afield, i like the ubiquitous .38spl centerfire round. that's why months ago i bought a model 67 as the big brutha to my model 642. yes, it's got a fat bbl with a few more added ounces to heft around, but that's ok by me. having vision issues, it was difficult to focus on the front sight and so i did something i really didn't want to do, added a red dot.

https://i.imgur.com/ue4Vml5.jpg

[Texas by God]

I would be happy with my Ruger Wrangler in kit gun role. Accurate enough to get groceries and light enough to carry a lot. And Ruger tough to boot.

[dangitgriff]

The SP101 .327 Federal magnum with a 3” barrel seems like a perfect kit gun to me.

[Petrol & Powder]

rfd - like you, I have long held the 38 Special in high esteem. It is a fantastically versatile cartridge. The barrel on the 67 is not quite as svelte as the tapered barrels of the fixed sight models (that top rib adds a little weight) but it is still lighter than the heavy barrel models.
I spent years looking for a model 67 and couldn't find a decent one that wasn't overpriced. I will not say the model 67 is rare (it is not rare) but I will say finding a reasonably priced good one has become difficult. Looks like you found a nice one, and is that a round butt?

[Petrol & Powder]

The SP101 .327 Federal magnum with a 3” barrel seems like a perfect kit gun to me.

/\ That setup does have a LOT going for it. /\

The SP101 is a little tank. Stainless steel and about as close to unbreakable as a revolver can get.
I always thought the 32 H&R mag was a great concept and I wish that cartridge had caught on a little more. By the time the 327 Federal Magnum came along, I was long out of the 32 S&W / 32 H&R mag game. The 32's are starting to gain my interest again.

[tazman]

I have two handguns that would qualify for Kit gun usage. A S&W 34 with a 4 inch barrel and a S&W 60 with a 3 inch barrel(38 special only).
These two would serve quite well for light weight carry or backpack guns. The only possible drawback I see is they both wear adjustable sights. These sights can be a blessing or a curse depending on the circumstances.
For my sidearm, I prefer a somewhat heavier gun. Depending on what I expect to face, I have S&W models 13, 15, 19, and 686. These will handle anything I am likely to come in contact with in my area.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Ruger EC9 wouldn't be bad if you took the time to find a load or adjust the sights for proper POA/POI. Shotshells might be a bit iffy, but if your aim is good, solids will kill a snake just fine. To me, a kit gun is fairly inexpensive, not $500+.

[onelight]

I am one that likes adjustable sights when I have a choice.
I want to be able to do head shots on small game with out Kentucky windage so the range I can keep my shots in 3/4 to an inch is the range I hunt small game . So I like the mod.63 Smith , the adjustable sight bearcat , and and 4.2" sp101s 327 or 357 these are the ones I like today :D subject to change on a whim.

[bigted]

Having read this entire thread, and been entertained immensely ... I too have an opinion on a "kit" gun.

I have always been enamored with the 22 LR round and always been under the opinion that this would very much be my end all round. I have harvested many meals with both rifle and handgun so chambered. It has tabled everything from squirrel to venison. I made [ in my youth with great eyes] a 75 yard instant kill that fed us venison for many fine meals ... this with a Luger by Stoger ... 1 shot over my pickup hood ... this witnessed by 2 other knuckleheads.

Since then I have wavered toward 38 spcl and lately toward my 44 spcl. Both have great terminal effects and on the two legged predator front reach almost perfect results along with tabling meal after meal ... in a package that is easy carry and lite weight revolvers.

I even subscribe to auto's for this category. They are accurate and lite weight. Chambered in very capable rounds, they would make great choice's for the carry gun in a "KIT".

However after 60 years of wondering this earth ... I remain in my very first opinion of years and years ago ... and that is that the MIGHTY 22 LR would be my choice chambered in a solid double action wearing a 3 or 4 inch barrel and built of stainless steel with non-adjustable sights. How many rounds is no concern as this would be a critter gathering tool and semi self defense gun.

These are easy to get acquainted with .
Easy to practice with to become very accurate with.
Ammo is very light so carrying 200 or 300 will not tax.
Solid round ammo for deep penetration.
Light report ... fairly.
Ability to shoot shorts, longs or long rifle.
Easy to muffle if that is required.
Deadly for all critters up to deer or human size.

I could go on n on. These are a fine revolver in almost any manufacturer ... and for the most part ... affordable.

I would opt for a more expensive revolver for the long haul. Stock up on bricks of ammo the revolver likes best.

Just sayin

[Lonegun1894]

Good thread. I have used several, but keep coming back to my 6.5" Ruger Single Six stainless in .22LR when going for small game, and it has taken plenty of hogs too. The other small caliber is a Ruger 22/45 4.5", which is lighter. I tend to go from there straight to assorted .357s, and then to various .44-.45 caliber options. They all work for me, but most definitely don't make the 2 pound limit several of you have mentioned. Guess I need to go shopping...

[Crow_Eater]

Did anyone mention the original Charter Arms Pathfinder? A stainless 16 oz 3" tapered barrel DA revolver with adjustable sights that back in the day (1980s) was available in either .22 LR or .22 WMRF. They were obviously intended for the Kit Gun role, and were smaller, lighter and less expensive than the J-frame S&Ws, and were pretty well made (no aluminum barrel shrouds glued on, etc.). The small framed Charter guns are very packable. If a rimfire was acceptable, these would be contenders.
There is a Charter model currently available of the same name, but it comes 2" or 4.2". Possibly a little lighter with an alloy frame.

[Petrol & Powder]

A 3" or 4" stainless DA revolver chambered in .22 RF would certainly be useful.
bigted makes some points with the most important in my opinion: ammo is small and lightweight.

I haven't really considered the Ruger 22/45 but that platform does offer weather resistance and light weight.

I will say that I've encountered some remarkably accurate .22 revolvers but I've always felt that it is easier to find an accurate .22 semi-auto pistol. It is not that .22 revolvers are bad, they are not. In fact, some .22 revolvers are remarkably accurate; it is just harder to find one that is set up correctly. All of the chambers need to be cut perfectly, the timing needs to be correct, the B/C gap needs to be correct, the forcing cone needs to be cut perfectly, etc. When you find a good one, hang onto it ! And it seems to me that the older manufacturing was a bit tighter and the older guns tended to shoot better.

Good .22 pistols just seem to be a little easier to find. Most Colt Woodsman, High Standard's, Ruger Standard and Browning Buckmarks are capable of better accuracy than their operator. There are always exceptions but I'm far less nervous about buying a used .22 pistol than a used .22 revolver. YMMV.

One REALLY cool aspect to living in today's world are the materials that we now have available. Prior to the fall of the Soviet Union the only titanium you saw in the U.S.A. was in exotic military applications, medical devices and space craft. Now the stuff is readily available and almost affordable.
The improvement of plastics of the last 40 years is nothing short of incredible.
Lightweight alloys have come a long way.
And the finishes that are now available now are downright amazing.

[MT Gianni]

Did anyone mention the original Charter Arms Pathfinder? A stainless 16 oz 3" tapered barrel DA revolver with adjustable sights that back in the day (1980s) was available in either .22 LR or .22 WMRF. They were obviously intended for the Kit Gun role, and were smaller, lighter and less expensive than the J-frame S&Ws, and were pretty well made (no aluminum barrel shrouds glued on, etc.). The small framed Charter guns are very packable. If a rimfire was acceptable, these would be contenders.
There is a Charter model currently available of the same name, but it comes 2" or 4.2". Possibly a little lighter with an alloy frame.

For a caster I have wondered about the newer 3" Charter 32 Mag. Price is better than any other 32 and a 7 shot light gun might do a lot for some areas.

[NorthMoccasin]

S&W 4" M-34, Ruger SP101 4" 357 shot mostly with 38 spl loads, 4 5/8 Ruger 32 H&R. My fav is my S&W M-60 3" 357, again mostly shot with 38 spl loads. Full power WC loads fill most of my needs. K frame guns are nice, but a little bulky and heavy for day to day use FOR ME. YMMV. I don't do Kentucky windage well so adj. sights for me. The Ruger HI Viz on the SP101 work well on a trail gun.

[tazman]

S&W 4" M-34, Ruger SP101 4" 357 shot mostly with 38 spl loads, 4 5/8 Ruger 32 H&R. My fav is my S&W M-60 3" 357, again mostly shot with 38 spl loads. Full power WC loads fill most of my needs. K frame guns are nice, but a little bulky and heavy for day to day use FOR ME. YMMV. I don't do Kentucky windage well so adj. sights for me. The Ruger HI Viz on the SP101 work well on a trail gun.

I have the models 34 and 60 though my 60 is a 38 special only. Very good, reliable guns and surprisingly accurate.
I wasn't sure how they would work out for me until I tried them. They are keepers.

[Green Frog]

My idea of a Kit Gun is a small framed revolver in a fairly small caliber, with a 3-4” barrel and adjustable sights. The perfect example for me would be the S&W Model 631 in the configuration above, but I have settled for a 3” Model 60-4 that does everything I need in this regard, so I guess I’ll probably quit while I’m ahead.

Froggie

[Cosmic_Charlie]

When I first started casting I had a new Ruger SP101 .357 with the 4" barrel. The barrel was timed poorly so the front sight was leaning. Sent it back to Ruger and they rebarreled it. But the new barrel a horrible forcing cone and would not shoot cast. Did fine with j-words. Sold it to a buddy and bought a 3" Smith 62. It is a nice little 5 shot that I carry in a shoulder rig.

[Azazin]

I like kit guns because they are durable and impossible to break, but we all need to understand that contemporary semi-automatic pistols are better. I had kit guns for all of my life, but recently I got a Beretta 950 as a present on my birthday. I have read some reviews on ballachy.com (https://ballachy.com/glock-40-review/), and the gun seems to be very good. The Beretta 950 is not a cheap pistol. With a price tag of over $600, this gun is not for the budget-minded shooter, but it has many advantages that make this pistol worth its price.

[Daekar]

I have always really liked the idea of a kit gun, and I sort of ended up with two of them: a 3" S&W 60, and a 3" S&W 63. Both are stainless, easy to carry, easy to shoot (although full-power 357 mag is downright unpleasant in the 60, I prefer something in the 38spl wadcutter range).

I went back and read the OP, and it seems to me that the best gun for meeting the stated criteria of a 4" stainless 38spl is now the Kimber K6S.... you can get them with or without adjustable sights in a full 4" barrel now. I held one of the target models in the store and it was a near-run thing that I didn't walk out of the store with it, it was a damn fine piece.