Ruger 44 mag flat top.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I took my Granddaughter to the range today and had a great time. There was a man shooting a Ruger Flat Top in 44Mag. He was shooting full bore hair of the dog ammo. I walked over to the bench they were shooting from and asked to see the pistol. He handed it to me and I couldn't believe what great shape it was in. He said it was his dad's and he didn't shoot it much. I told him you shouldn't either, at least not with that ammo. He said, why not, it says 44Mag. I told him I have seen several of them in gun shops years ago with the top strap curled up and the top half of the cylinder no where in sight. I also told him that's why they changed the design.The pistol had a four digit serial # beginning with 9 so it could have been a first year production. He said he took it to a gun shop and the man told him it had been re blued so it was not worth as much as it would have if it had been left as new. I told him it was still a very valuable pistol no matter what the man said. I also told him it would probably bring a thousand dollars in today's market. If you really want one, where are you going to buy it? I had one years ago with a four digit # beginning with 7. I wish I still had it.

[contender1]

A 4 digit FT 44 with the number 9 being the first digit, would have been a 3rd year production gun. It would have been a "Type 2," Type 2A, or even a Type 3." A few details on parts make the differences. A Type 2 in very good shape & not reblued is worth about $900,, while a Type 2A or Type 3 in original condition & in good shape would be worth about $800. A reblue reduces the value by about $200.
This info comes from the Red Eagle News Reference & price guide.

And you are correct in that it really shouldn't be shooting "rocks & dynamite" loads.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Contender, I only hope the man believed what I told him and doesn't keep shooting that ammo until he blows up the pistol and looses parts of his anatomy. I do wish the so called gunsmith he took it to would have told him what I did. Those pistols were made on the original Ruger .357 single action frame. Elmer Kieth warned Bill Ruger that the frame was too small. The man who had the 44 Ruger today didn't know who Elmer Kieth was. What a pity. I should have told the man to shoot 44 Specials in the pistol. Tell me something contender. Do you ever see these old Fat Tops for sale? I never do.

[contender1]

You are quite correct about not shooting full power loads in the old Ft. And yes,, Elmer did advise on the Super over the original.

As for these OM FT's for sale. Yes,, I've seen 4 for sale in the last month. But I've been more aware of them, and look at ALL Om Rugers I come across. Just a few weeks ago, in Ohio at the OGCA summer show/meeting,, I saw one, walking around the show FS. Sadly, it's condition & the asking price was not what any of the 25 or so Ruger collectors who were there & saw it felt was a fair buy. There were 2 others FS at this show,, and I know one of them sold. And I saw another one sell on the Ruger Forum a little while back. Heck,, if you really want to talk rare,, I barely missed a mahogany boxed, long frame Super just last week. Only about 300 of those made.
I did buy an OM 357/9mm convertible, with the "D" prefix serial number at the OGCA show. That one cost me $475.

The OM FT 44's have a production number of around 23,000. Actually more than the OM 45's that were built.

[Arkansas Paul]

Do you ever see these old Fat Tops for sale? I never do.


I actually saw one on Armslist a couple months ago.
It was $595 but it was in rough condition, finish wise.
Nearly all of the bluing was gone and the grips were worn, but the ad said it locked up tight.

If I had one, I would shoot the snot out of it, but probably with mostly Specials.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

The 44 Flat Top I have talked about was in perfect condition. I don't believe it had been re blued. That is just what the man in the gun shop told the owner. He had no idea. When I looked at i,t the stamped lettering on the barrel was perfect with no over buffed letters. I have seen many guns ruined by over buffing or done by the new kid in the shop. If the pistol I saw yesterday was in a gun shop in California it would not have a price on it of $600. The flat top Rugers are very much in demand. A .357 recently sold on this sight for well over $600.The SFT is just too big and heavy. I had one and hated it. A man at work heard me talking about it and offered to trade me a .357 three screw for it. I said OK if you give me $50 to boot. He went for it. I still have the 3 screw but I would prefer the 44 Flat Top. I wish I had taken a picture of the pistol I saw yesterday. I tell you , it would be like buying a new 44 Flat Top in today's gun market. I went on the Ruger forum trying to find a 44 Flat Top for sale but I didn't see a selling section. Maybe it was the wrong site.

[glaciers]

Contender1, I have a flat top 10" 44 serial #23,xxx about a 85% to 90% bluing, tight gun. I was hoping you could shed some light about the 10", value, numbers made, so on.

[contender1]

GS; I know some GOOD gunsmiths who can re-blue a gun to where you have a HARD time telling it from original. There are a few tricks to know for sure. (I always pull the cylinder,, and check the firing pin bushing. One of the little items not normally removed for a re-blue job.)
Also,, a really good high intensity flashlight, along with a magnifier can reveal polish marks etc.
And I know in Ca,, your laws may make some guns sell for more than they will in other places. Many of us collectors contribute to a survey annually by the RENE on gun values. We post real world prices we'd pay for a certain gun. This information is shared with the publishers of the Blue Book. I usually contribute to that guide.

glaciers; You have a desirable gun. Your gun is known as a BKH-40 model. It has the features of a "Type 4". A straight slot ERH, the barrel address doesn't have the Eagle. Serial number range for those is; 17150 to 24088. However, the actual production numbers are around 1500 guns. An honest NRA grading of 85%-90% would put the value at about $1500. If you have the original box, marked with BKH-40,, and it's in good condition,, the box is also worth about $1500. If you have the outer brown cardboard shipper,,, even more,, as those are SUPER scarce.

[glaciers]

Well the story is, I got this gun from Stanley's Gun Room on South Main in Santa Ana, California in the late 60's, back when most of California still was in the USA. The gun was stolen from Stan's shop along with other handguns, and recovered within the same week. There are a few marks from being in a canvas sack that contribute to the lower blue percentage, nothing bad, also holster ware. So no box or extras. The unfortunate thing is it was changed to the Ruger brass frame and did not come with the original aluminum frame. At least I assume it did not come from Ruger with the brass frame. So I don't know what that brass frame would do to the value. But.................
Thanks for the information.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Contender, I do not disagree with your assessment of the pistol in question among collectors but the people I am talking about don't care about collecting. They just want the smaller frame Flat Top to shoot, mostly with 44 Specials and those a little warm if you like. I, like most of us older shooters have regrets about the great guns we have sold and the one near the top of my list is the 44 Mag Flat Top I sold over a quarter of a century ago. To help with the point I am trying to make I will tell you about a S&W Chief,s Special I bought in a yard sale for $125. It had a three inch barrel and square butt. The pistol was easy to conceal in a jacket pocket and I could keep a soda can rolling at twenty feet with no trouble. Well, in a fit of madness I traded it off. Several years ago S&W brought back some of their classics and my little .38 was in the catalog, if you had a thousand bucks to spare. Point is, I wanted it to shoot, not to stick in a safe. There will never ever be any more of the Flat Tops in any caliber so if you want one to shoot you have to be willing to pay the price. At my age it is not on my shopping list.

[contender1]

glaciers, your gun may be worth a little more,, depending upon the condition. A LOT depends upon that. And a brass grip frame. If it's a Ruger brass g/f,, (pull the grips, and see if the frame is marked; MR3DB) that piece alone is worth in the neighborhood of $250-$300. An original XR3 g/f will cost around $100,, and a proper set of period correct grips,, $75-$100. The brassie grips,, depending upon the vintage,, from about $40-$75. So,,,, if you wanted to put it back as shipped,, (easily done,) you could sell the brass g/f & grips,, buy the correct stuff & pocket some money. And,,, no,, none of those guns were ever shipped with the brass g/f. Brass was an option offered much later. And the brass is the same shape as the Super Blackhawk.

Gopher Slayer,, I fully understand your thinking. There are shooters & there are collectors. A shooter doesn't care about details & condition as a collector will. I bought my first FT44, totally shooter grade,, a Type 2, 4 digit,, for $160 in 2001. I have a couple more now,, and I have seen several for sale in different places. And a shooter grade,,,now,, depending on a few things,, from $600-$700 for most of us. Sadly,, you live in a state where the restrictions have made some guns more desirable due to them NOT being subject to many of the stupid laws y'all have to deal with. But,, if you got away from Ca.,,, you'd be able to find stuff if you did a little searching.

[glaciers]

Contender1
Yes it's a MR3DB frame with Ruger wood grips. The grips have been on there since I purchase it in the late 60's. To be honest, after looking it over it's 80% to 85%. I always wanted a 6 1/2" FT 44. But, so many guns, so little money, and time.
And thanks, again for the info.

[contender1]

Well, even in poorer condition,, it's still a desirable gun to own by any budding collector. If you collect,, and don't have a 10" version,, then any silid one is desirable until you can "trade up!" Still can be worth from $1200 to $1500 depending upon how critical an eye a collector has & how much the "want factor" is. I'm going to send you a PM with a question.

[Hardcast]

A good friend has one with a 3 digit serial number. It's in very nice condition. I told him "I'll give you $300.00 for it". He replied "Yea, I'll bet you would, ha ha".

[contender1]

Now Hardcast,,, don'tcha go & give us poor gun traders a bad name like those nasty fishermen who always catch & release those whoppers! :D :D

Seriously,,, when it comes to buying, selling & trading,, a good policy to remember is this; "If the seller offers you a steal of a deal (and he's trustworthy,) give them their asking price & don't offer less. That way,, when they find out later it's worth more,, they can't get mad at you for paying their asking price. If the price offered is fair, and in the ball park of it's true value,, then depending upon the personalities of each party,, haggling is a fun form of making a deal. And of course,, if a gun is well over priced,, then politely decline, and walk away."
The above advice was given to me many years ago by a very true Southern Gentleman who was well liked & respected in the gun trading community.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Contender, you gave some very good advice and I couldn't agree more. As my dear Mom used to say," that boy has a head full of sense".

[Hardcast]

Now Hardcast,,, don'tcha go & give us poor gun traders a bad name like those nasty fishermen who always catch & release those whoppers! :D :D


He is a very close friend and knew I was pulling his leg.

[contender1]

:D :D

If we can't pull the chain of our friends,, why have friends?

[Larry Gibson]

I have a NM FT BH 44 magnum (50th Anniversary) and enjoy shooting full bore 44 Magnum loads in it. No problems like with the original OM FTBH.

246395

246396

[McLintock]

Actually, all the 44 Flattops were on the larger Ruger frame, same size as the Super, 30 Carbine, 45 Colts and 41 Mags. One of the main differences between it and the Super, besides the ears to improve sight protection, was the unfluted cylinder of the Super. This one change made the Super quite a bit stronger in the cylinder area. I took a 30 Carbine cylinder, had it rebored for 44 WCF for shooting black powder loads and it works great in my 44 Flattop.
McLintock

[Hardcast]

Actually, all the 44 Flattops were on the larger Ruger frame, same size as the Super, 30 Carbine, 45 Colts and 41 Mags. One of the main differences between it and the Super, besides the ears to improve sight protection, was the unfluted cylinder of the Super. This one change made the Super quite a bit stronger in the cylinder area. I took a 30 Carbine cylinder, had it rebored for 44 WCF for shooting black powder loads and it works great in my 44 Flattop.
McLintock

I strongly disagree with you. If a fluted and non-fluted cylinder are the same caliber and the same diameter, there is NO difference in strength. The weakest (thinnest) points of the cylinder are the bolt notches. Ask me how I know.....

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Me too. When Ruger brought out his first 44MAG pistol he only had one center fire frame size and it was originally designed for the .357 cartridge.

[Nueces]

Ruger's first 44 prototype was indeed made on their 357 frame. It blew up in factory testing, which led to the larger frame design. All commercial Ruger 44 Flat Tops were made on this larger frame.

[DougGuy]

Chamber wall thickness being the same, chamber web thickness being the same, strength of the cylinders is the same regardless of flutes. And it was correctly pointed out that the weak point is indeed the bolt cuppets being right on top of the chamber.

[McLintock]

Ok, I was just trying to make the point of what Nueces just said as it sounded to me like frame size was being blamed for the aforementioned blow ups after the guns got into the publics hands. I don't know if Ruger changed the location of bolt stops on the Super's or the other large frame guns as they brought them out, haven't checked that, but all the cylinders of the large frame guns are 1.72" in diameter on the cartridge head end of the cylinder, so any cylinder of the same caliber should have the same wall thickness within a few thousands. I would guess most, if not all of the blow ups mentioned by Gofher Slayer were due to human error, but I'm not putting any money on it one way the other.
McLintock

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Ok, I was just trying to make the point of what Nueces just said as it sounded to me like frame size was being blamed for the aforementioned blow ups after the guns got into the publics hands. I don't know if Ruger changed the location of bolt stops on the Super's or the other large frame guns as they brought them out, haven't checked that, but all the cylinders of the large frame guns are 1.72" in diameter on the cartridge head end of the cylinder, so any cylinder of the same caliber should have the same wall thickness within a few thousands. I would guess most, if not all of the blow ups mentioned by Gofher Slayer were due to human error, but I'm not putting any money on it one way the other.
McLintock

If the blow ups were caused by human error why did Ruger come out with a much bigger and stronger pistol? I have owned both. One with the smaller frame which was a pleasure to wear on your hip and the SBH which was a boat anchor. They are not the same size. Elmer Keith warned Bill Ruger that the first Ruger 44 pistol frame was too small. Guys, I was around when all this was happening and I remember Keith writing about it and I saw the blown up pistols as I mentioned.

[Dale53]

I would like to respectfully disagree with the statements above that allege “weakness” in the Original Ruger Flattop .44 Magnum. It simply isn’t true. Bill Ruger, against the advice of Elmer Keith had two or three prototypes built on the .357 Magnum Flattop frame. They failed in testing. None of these went on sale to the public. The .44 flattop’s as made were plenty strong. They were just too light and uncomfortable to shoot for many people. Here’s the REAL story:

https://gunblast.com/Hamm_44-Flattop.htm

FWIW,
Dale53

[smkummer]

https://images.app.goo.gl/n2sdB2UaZmRmJjbb9 This was the vintage ad I was looking for. The 44 frame was bigger.

[McLintock]

Before we leave the beautiful 44 Flattops, we should show a few of them, so here's mine. The top one is a first year one, shipped in December 1956, ser #5XX, while the bottom one is one of the last ones shipped, November 1962, Ser#297XX, and it has one of the just put out XR-3RED grip frames, which Ruger used from then on. Thiis made it a little easier to shoot but not as good as the Super. The middle one is a 10 Incher from somewhere in between, Ser#18XXX.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1303399/7384995/414274483.jpg
McLintock

[onelight]

Before we leave the beautiful 44 Flattops, we should show a few of them, so here's mine. The top one is a first year one, shipped in December 1956, ser #5XX, while the bottom one is one of the last ones shipped, November 1962, Ser#297XX, and it has one of the just put out XR-3RED grip frames, which Ruger used from then on. Thiis made it a little easier to shoot but not as good as the Super. The middle one is a 10 Incher from somewhere in between, Ser#18XXX.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1303399/7384995/414274483.jpg
McLintock
Very nice !

[contender1]

OOOOHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! A transition FT44!!!!!!!!! NICE! In fact all 3 are desirable 44's!

This made me dig out a couple of pictures.
Here is a rare salesman give away,, a toy,, that was used to help introduce the Ruger Blackhawk 44 mag,, in 1956.

https://i.postimg.cc/BbJyk5vq/P1030637.jpg (https://postimg.cc/hz3p7dxw)

https://i.postimg.cc/SK7f5BYM/P1030638.jpg (https://postimg.cc/f3ydSgKz)

[dogrunner]

You fella's really hit the nostalgia button with this thread!!

I just wish I could locate my first FT .44........#22362 that I got screwed out of by a local dealer.........I'd left the gun with him w/instructions to send it to Ruger for a refinish when I entered the army..........I expected to get it back after basic and AIT but kept getting a run around from that man.....only reason I used him was that I'd bought the piece new from his shop & thought I could trust him......not so.....Finally, after griping to my Dad about the situation he took it on himself to rectify the situation.........visited that dealer and apparently promised a small claims suit from what I heard. Came home about an hour later and tossed me a spankin' NIB FT..............albeit with an inch shorter bbl...

Story later came out that the D had sent the piece to a local re blue facility and a friend wrote me saying the guy had it in his display case for sale.....I was too damn poor to redeem it then, but I'll always wish I had.

I liked that 7.5 tube on the original gun so much that when I could I sent it to Ruger for a re bbl.....also told them to stick an unfluted cylinder on it as well.....and that's the configuration it's in to this day.......friend of mine managed to lose the original fluted cylinder in a car wreck in Alaska.........talk about unobtainium, try finding one of those!

I truly could not guess just how much game has fallen to that old gun......snowshoe hare, black bear, porkers here in Fl. and innumerable reptiles........And I'd add that the full bore loads never did one damn thing for me except to add to my hearing loss and a sore wrist.............Specials are the answer for light hunting and a good cast around 1150 will do anything you need to do with a handgun.

Compared to today's version of that design......OK, but nothing special in my book........and I despise the transfer bar safety Rube Goldberg design in spades.

I'm 78 now, not planning to leave anytime soon, but that gun will be with me till it's over and with no sons I guess a favorite nephew can look forward to one hulluva gift!



Meant to mention one other aspect 'bout that crappy dealer. After I got out of the Army he got wind of it and billed me the difference between the gun he'd given my Dad and the old one...............I challenged him to legal battle if he really wanted to see some business damage!

[Hardcast]

dogrunner: A most excellent post. I enjoy reading about peoples experiences, both good and bad. Thanks for sharing with us. :)

[contender1]

dogrunner,, I checked the list of 7-1/2" 44 FT's on the Ruger Forum. That serial number isn't listed,, so it's not out there in collectors hands that share with us.

I'm assuming all this happened before 1968? I ask because a polite call to the ATF about that dealer would have potentially brought down his house.

[dogrunner]

Thanks for the kind comments 'bout my musing. We've all been thru the 'ones that never shoulda' got away', and that was one of mine. In terms of time and the ATF........not back then I'm afraid. That incident took place in the spring of 1963 and for better or worse (plus better in my book) that alphabet org. wasn't even a shadow of what it morphed into.

I only hope that old gun wound up with someone that appreciated it as much as I did tho. I'd nickle and dime saved up for that piece & bought it as an 18th BD present for myself.............hell, back then 96 bucks was a real fortune, y'know.

[contender1]

Understand all too well,,,,,,,,,,!