Got a good buy on a TC Hawken this week

[Doug Bowser]

One of the guys in the club gave me a .50 TC Hawken this week. It is a 1 in 48" barrel and never has been fired.

Do you think RB loads will shoot OK? How about Lee Minies and Lee REAL's ?

I have not been able to get to the range. I have had a virus since Friday.

I am ready to try it ASAP.

[MT Gianni]

RB's shoot OK but not well enough to win a match against good competition. REALS shoot better but not as good as a Maxiball. My bbl had a few tight spots but the kit was put together in 78 and overall the gun reflects my care and maturity at the time. Their quality may have changed for better or worse. Gianni

[Bob Gular]

A .490 round ball with .015 lubed patch pushed by 60 grains of 3f Goex or 80 grains of 2f should give good results for target or hunting. The Lee REAL bullets are also very accurate without the generous helping of recoil supplied by the Maxis. Since the barrel has not been fired, I would suggest using an overpowder card or wad to reduce blowby and patch damage caused by new, sharp rifling. With conicals I always use an overpowder wad for more consistency in pressure and velocity.
Bob Gular

[BrentD]

Never had much luck with Reals but never used them in the TC. My .54 TC Hawken shot very very well with .535 balls and .015 lubed patches and a stiff load of 2f.

The recoil on that gun was murderous though. I don't know who fits their stocks but it ain't me.

[Maven]

I've got to disagree with some of the above, or perhaps my T/C Hawken was an exception to the rule. I bought it used, and after scrubbing the filth out of the 28" 1:48 original bbl. (.45cal.) I tried it with .440" RB's + .014" patches, T/C Maxi-Balls, and later, Lee REAL's using either BP or Pyrodex. From a rest, and with the original open sights (adjustable rear) it would repeatedly put 5 touching @ 50 yds. However, this level of accuracy required perfectly cast projectiles and wiping the bore with a patch dampened in Winchester Sutler's "Moose Milk." Btw, the newer formulation of Moose Milk isn't the same as the original. Also, the original barrel was remarkably insensitive to patch thickness. I later added a .50cal. (.490" RB) Green Mtn. bbl. with a 1:66 twist, which was just as accurate, but required a .018" patch.

[mooman76]

I agree with Maven.
I have never shot a T/C but the 1/48 twist is a real good in between twist for 50 cal. I have had a couple CVAs with that twist in 50 and they shoot both RBs and conicals verry well as long as they are not pushed too hard. Of coarse each rifle is it's own and you will have to play with the loads but you should be very pleased with it and not just because of the price.

[PatMarlin]

Congrats on the rifle. I've got one and mine shoots my lyman mold boolit really well. Mold number slipped my mind for the moment.

[cajun shooter]

If you become tired of fooling with the TC I'll be more than happy to give it a new home. Back in the early 70's I worked in a gun store in Baton Rouge and we could buy the TC's for a little over $125 if memory serves me right. I'm still kicking myself for not buying one

[PatMarlin]

Bought mine when I was parking at a gunshow one morning, and guy got out of his truck with the TC and I asked if he was selling it. He was with possibles bag, tools measures, 5 lbs of powder. AA wood and hardly fired for $275.

What do they retail now for- near $700

[PatMarlin]

A .490 round ball with .015 lubed patch


Welcome to cast boolit heaven Bob...!:drinks:

Mine also shoots that round ball and patch well.

[northmn]

A lot has been mentioned about the "comprimise" twist and rifling depth of
TC's. I have seen them hold their own against custom rifles and remember one individual that cleaned house at a BP shoot with a TC. This was bulleye targets and 5 shot groups. Local folks say he shot a lot, but the rifle did not let him down. Gnerally, the TC shoots good with a tight ball patch combo and lighter charges than some custom guns. 50 grains 3f in a 50 made a good target load. Anytime one says generally, someone will mention exceptions, but these were common loads.

Northmn

[PatMarlin]

A guy posting a long time ago here said there was a marking designation on the best of the time period TC Hawkin barrels made.

I think it was a star or something like that if I remember correctly. Mine has that mark.

[mooman76]

A lot has been mentioned about the "comprimise" twist and rifling depth of
TC's. I have seen them hold their own against custom rifles and remember one individual that cleaned house at a BP shoot with a TC. This was bulleye targets and 5 shot groups. Local folks say he shot a lot, but the rifle did not let him down. Gnerally, the TC shoots good with a tight ball patch combo and lighter charges than some custom guns. 50 grains 3f in a 50 made a good target load. Anytime one says generally, someone will mention exceptions, but these were common loads.

Northmn

Yes some have commented on a compirmise twist and I am guilty of saying so myself. Just meaning it isn't the absolute best for RB and not the absolute best for conicals, just right inbetween. Best shooting gun in the world isn't going to shoot good in the hands of someone who can't shoot and most guns shoot better than people can shoot them anyway. Obviousely your friend is a good shot and knows his gun and what shoots best in it. I have done well in few matches before with a 50 cal 1/48 twist but it was with a small group of people and they weren't the best shooting people, just a good group of guys out to have fun.:Fire:

[PatMarlin]

Marginal shooters always make me look good.. :mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

Had a WWII vet clean my clock this past spring. On my own range even.

Granpa gave me a good spankin'.. :mrgreen:

[9.3X62AL]

I've disposed of most of my charcoal burners, but one that I'll retain FOR SURE is my T/C Hawken x 54. Yeah, it whacks ya pretty good with higher-end loadings, but it sends a good-sized chunk of venison-maker downrange.......and with very fine accuracy in my rifle.

[northmn]

The person cleaned house at the Grand Forks shoot which was a pretty good sized get together. He shot something like a 98 at 100 yards. I didn't really know the person that well. The 1-48 twist is not the comprimise as much as the depth of rifling. Many originals were made with faster twists than many use today. The Hawken original was said to commonly be between 1-48 and 1-60. The original powder measures and other sources indicate they did not use as heavy of loads either. Numrich Arms used to import some barrels with a 1-56 twist and shallower rifling which also shot well if care was taken with load development. They seemed to shoot best with a little larger ball and thinner patches. Rule of thumb someone else can say didn't work for him. The primary critisisms of the TC Hawken, at the times, was that they really didn't look much like the Hawken they were named after. To me they looked like a design that would satisfy those used to modern rifles that had not studied originals. They were about the best rifle bought over the counter in their day, as other did not have the quality. To improve on the TC one had to go custom until CVA started improving. CVA started making better guns but never really put anything resembling nice wood on them. The TC had a lot of copies and was a good gun.

Northmn

[PatMarlin]

I went and pulled mine out of the safe cause it was lonesome. Sure sports a nice figured, but not overstated peice of wood. It's a 6 serial number and it has an "M" stamped on the bottom of the barrel. These were supposed to be the most accurate barrels.

I think if this quality was available back in the day, our ancestors would be overjoyed. Also, you mention they used lighter loads, and that makes sense as I'm sure it got the job done and conserved powder which as today is precious IMO.

Green mountain sure has a lot of interchangeable barrels. Wish they had a smooth bore. I would like a 12 ga.

[Shootn]

My Hawken seems to like round balls better than conicals. I settled on a hunting load of 70 grains of FFF Triple Seven. I use a .495 ball with a .10 patch. I also put a felt wad between the powder and the patch/ball. I have T/C Cherokee in .32 that is an absolute tackdriver with a .310 ball and 30 grains of FFF Goex. From my experience, T/C muzzleloaders are each a rule unto themselves.

[fourarmed]

I hadn't shot black for years, but my son has been hinting that we need a rifle for muzzleloading deer season. I pretty much ignored him until Wednesday night I saw a TC .50 Hawken advertised on the gunclub bulletin board for $125. I was the first guy there and got it. It seems to be in excellent condition.

I have looked at the above posts, and written down the load suggestions. I would also like to get the general opinion of Pyrodex for use with patched roundball with this rifle.

[mooman76]

You'll get allot of mixed opinions on that. I used pyrodex quite a bit and got good results. I try to stick to the real stuff now but it is hard to find sometimes.

[cross-sticks]

The biggest problem with the T/C barrels was the shallow rifling. Try using light loads and the tightest ball/patch you can load. I used a .498 RB (pure lead) and .015 teflon patching and 50 grains of 2F.

[357maximum]

I would also like to get the general opinion of Pyrodex for use with patched roundball with this rifle.


I am by no means as experienced as some of these older cogs[smilie=2: but I will let you have my very biased opinion. Pyrodox is nasty to shoot, nasty to clean and is nasty on domestic harmony if you clean it in general quarters[smilie=1:. Triple 7 is a small step forward as far as subs go and is more pleasant in all regards but one...it does leave a hard sugar based ring at the base of the projectile....but if kept in check is not all too terrible. I much prefer real bp and I can buy Goex (anyday) and swiss(sometimes) without ordering it and I do so because the real stuff is just easier to deal with when you are done shooting, and it gives slightly better accuracy with conicals and much better accuracy with RB in the slower twisters I have or have had. Real does not have the ignition issues that the fake stuff has either. If you were shooting a modern inline I would recommend 777 for the energy it has, but with a #11 sidelock...I wholehartily recommend the real McCoy. I have killed a few whitetails with an old CVA 50 from a kit that I hamfisted into a rifle as a young lad and it's 1/48 twist and real black have always gotten along just fine with my hornady roundballs. I first tried the pyrodox because that is what dad shot in his Hawken. I was sorely dissapointed with the claims made of it and donated my pyrostink to him and never looked back. I do shoot 777 in my older CVA inline, and more than likely I will shoot 777 in my new encore but that is an apple/oranges thing compared to the Hawken. IMNSHO I would feed your Hawken the real stuff it deserves.....OK I am done now whew.;-)

[runnin lead]

Four Armed
$125 for a T/C Hawkin , four armed bandit
I think I paid $ 140-150 for my .54 T/C Hawkin kit in the early 80's
I felt perty good picking up a .50 T/C New Englander a few years ago used with a small split behind the tang for about $ 100 & shipping
Good going !

[Doug Bowser]

In addition to the .50 TC Hawken given to me by a club member, I have a .54 TC Hawken.

A man came by my home with it and it was in dismal condition. The outside of the barrel had a lot of surface rust. I figured the bore was as bad. He wanted to sell it and i thought I would buy it and get a a Green Mountian barrel to replace the ruined one. I gave him $50 for it and put it in the corner of the shop. I picked it up a day or 2 later and to my surprise the bore cleaned out. It was oiled heavily and the BP residue did not rust the barrel. I felt bad about it but the gun would have been eventually ruined by the owner. That made it better in my mind.

I took it to the range and fired some Lee flat pointed Minnie Balls and they keyholed at 50 yards. I switched to RB & patch and the groups were GREAT. 5 bullets in 1" C to C at 50. I checked the barrel twist later and it is a 1 in 66". Not many TC Hawken Rifles were made in 1 in 66". The rifle has been used by several 4h Shooting Sports Kids and our NRA Youth Hunter Education Challenge Team. I was happy that I could save the rifle from neglect and put it to use training our young shooters.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Pyrodex in my .58 Zouave Reprica will let me shoot all day with no wiping or cleaning. It is no more accurate and may give 25 fps more velocity VOLUME to VOLUME. I Bought a case years ago so do not know the price today. It does work real well with a .575 ball and thin patch. 2F with the .575 and same thin patch just gets to dirty with one shot to shoot good without wiping. But with a .57 ball 2F and Pyro shoot the same. Pryro in freezing or wet weather "Seems" a bit harder to ignite. Hunting I use 2F period.
God Bless you !

[Digital Dan]

Never had much luck with Reals but never used them in the TC. My .54 TC Hawken shot very very well with .535 balls and .015 lubed patches and a stiff load of 2f.

The recoil on that gun was murderous though. I don't know who fits their stocks but it ain't me.

+1. LOP too short, made my eyes water it did.

[mainiac]

My Hawken seems to like round balls better than conicals. I settled on a hunting load of 70 grains of FFF Triple Seven. I use a .495 ball with a .10 patch. I also put a felt wad between the powder and the patch/ball. I have T/C Cherokee in .32 that is an absolute tackdriver with a .310 ball and 30 grains of FFF Goex. From my experience, T/C muzzleloaders are each a rule unto themselves.

I have a t/c cherokee in .32 as well. It will shoot in a hole @ 40-50 yards, with lee .311 round ball,pillowtick patch, lehighvalley lube. I picked up some 32 cal felt wads, and the gun started shooting TERRIBLE! Thought they would help,but they are bad in this gun.This is by far my most accurate smoke-gun. BTW, my powder load is 24 gr WEIGHED of shutezen fff.

[renegade]

My T/Cs; 50 & 54 really don't care for roundballs unless it's a light charge. They do better with "Hornady's, Great Plains bullets.The 54 with a 460gr Great Plains HBFP will definately barrel roll a deer. The Maxi-Balls shot better with felt wads. As for propellants.I like the blackpowder,seems more consistant.I noticed that with sabots,the plastic sabots were laying within about a yard of each other on the ground when I was practicing. T-7 is good stuff.Definately more velocity and my T/C with a 45cal GM barrel loved it and Hornady's 285gr Great Plains. Pyrodex,it's alright.I fired 50 rounds of 50cal roundballs(>490 with patch lubed with T/C Bore-Butter,The yellow STUFF)without swabbing the barrel or cleaning the nipple and hit the target,a gallon milk jug at 50 yards with the 50th shot.And it cleaned up just fine afterwards.Still,I think for one or the other(slow for roundball or fast for conicals) twist is preferable to this 1-48 compromise.

[shdwlkr]

Well I have TC,s from .32 to .54 (total of 6)have never found them lacking. For patching I use cotton flannel and have switched to using 3f in everything.

[MoldyJoe]

RB's shoot OK but not well enough to win a match against good competition. REALS shoot better but not as good as a Maxiball. My bbl had a few tight spots but the kit was put together in 78 and overall the gun reflects my care and maturity at the time. Their quality may have changed for better or worse. Gianni

Like my Brother, I put one together about the same time frame. Mine used to love RB .490. I did notice that at the Rendevous shoots I got much better accuracy if I cleaned the Bore after every shot, just a patch or two, made all the diference. Congratulations. Joe

[Gunfixer]

Just my .02, I have a T/C New Englander 54 with the 1:48 and with .530 RB , .015 patch and 75gr T7 it puts 3 in the X ring of a 25 yd pistol target at 100 yds (off the bench). It also shoots to the same point of impact and group size Honady GP 425's and 110 gr T7. I just got a renegade 50 cal also 1:48 and cant wait to shoot it (waiting on rear peep sight)

[Underclocked]

My old .45 TC Hawken (early 70s rifle), serial # 11111, shot absolutely terrific with 3x 28 grain spouts of Pyrodex P behind home cast maxi-balls lubed with either Crisco or Maxi-Lube.

[Gerry N.]

I built my .50 T-C Hawken from a kit in 1970. It started as a flinchlock, then I bought a T-C concussion lock, put a drum and nipple in the breech and have shot it as caplock since about '82. With a .490 ball, .018-.020 pillow ticking patch greased with lard it will plop balls into about 2" to 3" clusters from a bench. I use 60 grains of Goex 3F.

About 8 or 9 years ago I got a burr under my blanket when Numrich sent me a flyer advertising .30 muzzleloading barrels for $15.00. I bought one. breeced it up, made the barrel hardware out of scraps and accidentally found an old Ideal .285 ball mold. Boy, howdy is it tedious casting ujp those damned BB's. Anyway, to make a long story interminable, The .30 drop in bbl will do about the same at 50 yds, but at 25 it's a tackdriver. It is a bit strange looking because I had to cut the barrel to 25" to get the thing to balance.

I do get some funny looks and smart alecky remarks when I mount the barrel to play in the squirrel shoots at rendezvous. #4 buckshot (.270") does as well as .285" cast roundballs when used with a slightly thicker patch. I shoot that one with 15 gr. 3F. The reason I made up the peashooter barrel is that in my dotage shooting a 60 shot course of fire all at one time with the .50 flat out hurts. With the .30, it is only tiresome. Not to mention cheaper.

About the cheapest shooting I know of other than .22LR is my .30 frontstuffer with 39 gr. cast balls, 10 gr 3F and caps made with the Tap-O-Cap. That set-up will keep kids happily occupied for days when camping.

Gerry N.

[BigBore56]

All this TC talk made me dig my old Renegade 50 out of the safe. Only fired 8 rounds thru it...7 to sight it in, and 1 to shoot the deer. That was a long time ago! I mounted a scope on it at the time (with see thru mounts and iron sights), and the gun shot like a modern rifle.

Would selll this package for $250 plus shipping...gun barely has any handling marks and was immaculately cleaned after the above shots.

[billsr]

Four Armed
$125 for a T/C Hawkin , four armed bandit
I think I paid $ 140-150 for my .54 T/C Hawkin kit in the early 80's
I felt perty good picking up a .50 T/C New Englander a few years ago used with a small split behind the tang for about $ 100 & shipping
Good going !

I got my .54 Hawken for $50.00. [smilie=1: Wife found it at a garage sale. It was a kit and the guy gave up on putting it together, so he wanted to get rid of it. It had one part missing, so I called TC, explained the situation and they sent me the part, no charge, even after I explained how I got it.
I glass bedded the barrel channel and lock area and I don't worry about cleaning it and getting water into the recesses, although I do wipe it dry.
Bought a TC 1 in 66" round ball barrel for it, and it fit perfectly in the stock. Just recently bought a Green Mountain .45 1 in 60" round ball barrel, and it took very little fitting to get it to bed in the stock. The only problem with it was the hammer would hit the front of the cap on the nipple once in a while and cause a misfire, so I thinned down the front portion of the hammer cup, and now have 100% reliable ignition. :mrgreen:

[Gerry N.]

II have looked at the above posts, and written down the load suggestions. I would also like to get the general opinion of Pyrodex for use with patched roundball with this rifle.

I tried Pyrostench once. ONCE !

Stick to the real thing, it's easier to clean up after, smells less, and works better in general.

My .50 T-C Hawken really likes a .490" RB and fairly heavy patching, I use .018 cotton pillow ticking greased with plain ol' lard and a charge of 60 grains of 3F Goex. Clean up is a peach and accuracy is superb. I see no reason Crisco or house brand veggie shortening wouldn't do as well as lard. Just keep any petrochemical out of the bore. Remember; no petroleum products !

Each rifle is a law unto itself and requires some messing with to find the load combination it likes.

Gerry N.