Sharps.45-70 First Blood

[Fisher]

First successful day with my Pedersolli Billy Dixon Sharps in .45-70 today, took the first Impala ram just past 7 o’clock this morning @ 130yds with a shoulder shot, it ran 45 yards crawled in to a bush, I finished it off with 15yard headshot. No blood trail.
246110

Got another one half past 12 at about 80yds, shot it behind the shoulder shot, it went down after about 50yds, and again no speck of blood in that 50 yards.
246111

The boolit used is the RCBS GC 405 FP driven by smoklrss powder at 1700fps, why did neither of the to bucks leave a blood trail?
This is a major problem for me....

[Winger Ed.]

Very Good!

Blood flow is like water pressure, it will take the path of least resistance.

If the wound channel went into/through the body cavity, and cut into the heart or a big blood vessel,
the blood flow would go into the body cavity directly from the heart,
instead going into the veins and of out a boolit hole if it could.

Just a wild guess, but when ya cleaned it, a BUNCH of blood probably came out with the innards,
compared to a head shot where there isn't any 'loose blood' in the body cavity.

[Gray Fox]

I think animals that size are the classic target for the Gould 330 grain cast HP using Larry's hunting alloy at about 1,600 fps. I'm going to try it on deer and hogs this fall. GF

[skeettx]

Need more data.

What was the alloy?
Did the bullet exit the animal?
What was the size of the exit hole if any?

Mike

[Tripplebeards]

To hard of alloy with no expansion and lack of kinetic energy transfer I’m guessing. Been there myself last year shooting to hard of an alloy on some small whitetails. I had massive trauma inside the animal with very little to no blood on two of the deer. The entry and exit holes were boolit diameter and clogged with fat. I’m going with a super soft alloy this year for a comparison test to see if I can drop them where they stand or at least tear a good size exit in the hide on the way out for a good blood trail. I’m not worried about “eating to the hole” and don’t want to have to track or chase my animal down to finish it. I’d rather try and find an alloy/load combo the drops them where they stand making it more humane. If it causes more meat damage so be it. I’m no liberal but I hate to see animal suffer longer then it has to and makes me feel bad like I did something wrong causing it not to expire on the spot. It seems the older I get the more it bothers me. I’m hoping that it will change the outcome from deer acting like they were hit with an arrow to acting like they were shot with a varmint bullet...stay tuned!

Awesome BTW!!!

[Edward]

First successful day with my Pedersolli Billy Dixon Sharps in .45-70 today, took the first Impala ram just past 7 o’clock this morning @ 130yds with a shoulder shot, it ran 45 yards crawled in to a bush, I finished it off with 15yard headshot. No blood trail.
246110

Got another one half past 12 at about 80yds, shot it behind the shoulder shot, it went down after about 50yds, and again no speck of blood in that 50 yards.
246111

The boolit used is the RCBS GC 405 FP driven by smoklrss powder at 1700fps, why did neither of the to bucks leave a blood trail?
This is a major problem for me....

Cause your gun wants a fat cast boolit pushed by genuine BP as designed and anything over 1200FPS is wasted under a thousand yds

[ChristopherO]

I've shot a slew of game with BP and soft lead bullets and they don't drop animals any faster than a FN bullet pushed with Smokeless Powder. BP is fun and effective but it doesn't make a 45/70, or any cartridge magical.

[rking22]

Body cavity had to fill enough to let the blood build up to run out of the holes. Did they leak after he fell over?

[Texas by God]

Hit the shoulder bones or neck next time.

[Tripplebeards]

Fisher you got me fired up to sight my 77/44 in with the optic I changed out on it along with my softer 7.5 BH alloy(a 16:1 mix of pewter and pure lead). I have it casted up in a Lyman devastator,PC, and GC. It chronies around 1750 FPS. Here is a boolit I recovered from a dirt pile at 25 yards yesterday. The slug weighed 154 grains and the piece that broke off of it laying right next to it totaled 180 grains. A far cry from the 265 grains it started with but I’m sure dirt with gravel in it is a lot harder than an animal. I’ve tryed this with my harder alloy and it goes all the way to China and normally can’t recover it. I did do some water testing with this alloy and it comes out as flat as a penny vs my 15.4 BH looks like a perfect mushroom. Can’t wait to try out my 7.5BH!

https://i.imgur.com/0oV8SVp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yaDmlG6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9FZ2hCA.jpg


Of it doesn’t kill any quicker it will at least put a bigger exit hole for better blood trails imo.

[Norske]

That's a lot better than the first animal I shot with my Marlin 45-70. Mine was a target of opportunity, a thirteen-lined ground squirrel.

[tinhorn97062]

Hit the shoulder bones or neck next time.

This is key. Every animal I’ve shot, except 1, dropped where it stood. Every shot taken was through the next or straight thru the shoulders...except 1. I shot a hog thru the boiler room and he ran a little. Next shot thru the shoulders anchored it.

Point? Take the wheels out and the vehicle stops moving.

[Fisher]

Cause your gun wants a fat cast boolit pushed by genuine BP as designed and anything over 1200FPS is wasted under a thousand yds

Could I ask you to please explain to a naive novice, how intarnalbalistics and the components used to launch a projectile aswell as the difference in launch pads influence wound balistics and blood trails beyond the physical dinamics of the said projectile in motion, which for argument sake we assume will be kept to the same impact velocity of the said projectile?

Ad by assuming that all factors being equal, how do the terminal performance of a projectile increases as it’s impact velocity decreases ?
For argument sake letÂ’s assume that no meaningful deformation of the projectile takes place, and the neither the direction nor the orientation of the projectile change while traveling within the target which in this case is a 100lb antilope, within the specified velocity parameters.

[Edward]

Could I ask you to please explain to a naive novice, how intarnalbalistics and the components used to launch a projectile aswell as the difference in launch pads influence wound balistics and blood trails beyond the physical dinamics of the said projectile in motion, which for argument sake we assume will be kept to the same impact velocity of the said projectile?

Ad by assuming that all factors being equal, how do the terminal performance of a projectile increases as it’s impact velocity decreases ?
For argument sake letÂ’s assume that no meaningful deformation of the projectile takes place, and the neither the direction nor the orientation of the projectile change while traveling within the target which in this case is a 100lb antilope, within the specified velocity parameters.
Easy too hard /too fast/ for boolit weight = minimum exit hole size versus correct alloy for( yardage )0-1000 mine at correct FPS (1200) mine for said projectile at (pick a weight) mine 530gr /simple and demonstrated weekly on wood/steel/and especially dirt (aids in planting rows of beans when done) . Oh and most important copious amounts of blood letting on live soon to be dead critters :bigsmyl2:/Ed

[Tripplebeards]

I learned the same hard way using too hard of an alloy last year...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?373867-First-deer(s)-with-cast-boolits!-Used-my-devastators

I don’t aim for heads, necks, backbones, or shoulders on medium or big game...on purpose...and never will.

[MT Chambers]

I think that the softer alloys kill better than hard alloys and usually the speed is less than the O>P>

[Tripplebeards]

I learned the same hard way using too hard of an alloy last year...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?373867-First-deer(s)-with-cast-boolits!-Used-my-devastators

I don’t aim for heads, necks, backbones, or shoulders on medium or big game...on purpose...and never will.


Heres why I don’t shoot at heads.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ANXts5EedSFfZc926


I’ve seen ALOT of “little Steve Martins” running around on my property over the years from the so called great marksman running around on the surrounding properties. There’s way to many “self so called marksman/snipers” who shoot for heads and “think” they missed more than they connect. I see way too many deer running around like the deer above, or with their lower jaw hanging down or missing, holes above their neck with a chunk of hair and flesh missing across their backs from idiots trying to take “paralyzing” back bone shots on opening day that I have to finishing off or I couldn’t live with my Conscience and it wrecks my hours of sitting still in a tree stand waiting for a giant as soon as I fire off a finishing shot. Every time I see this, which is normally at least one deer a year on my property I’d like to brake every so called sniper’s rifle in the area. I stopped letting head shooters on my property decades ago but can’t stop the “so called great marksman” on the surrounding properties from doing it. So next time you head shooters take a crack at a deer and it keeps running thinking you must have missed remember what you probably did. I don’t consider head shooters hunters. Imo They’re kids who grew up playing to many video games and watched to many sniper movies. I’m guilty of it myself from 25 years ago. I’ve shot a lot of deer with head shots that drop on the spot but all it takes is one branch or flinch to pull a little Steve. Pretty sad imo, EVERYONE here owes way more respect to the animal than trying to make ego shoots to brag about. I’m sure no one here misses or has ever had to chase down a deer with a so called perfect shot...including myself. Way to much room for error in real life scenarios.

And lets face it...that average cast boolit groups most posters seem to live with here is a 4” to 5” group at 100 yards(not me). Which is the height of an average deer head making very easy to wound or miss. SO...How is the average shooter going to hit a 2” to 3” spine at 100 yards with a 4” plus group successful every time? I, myself do not hunt with a load unless is shoots sub MOA and I still won’t take those shots.

Imo headshots are only for finishing the animal off like OP did and I commend him for that.

Remember all it takes is one goofy liberal and a camera to take a photo or video of something like “little Steve Martin” and everyone on the planet wants to end our hunting privileges...over ONE animal...and I see something like this on the news every other year it seems like.

All right I’m done ranting but you can tell every time someone suggests to take head shots on deer or other medium sized game it strikes a nerve with me. Save those shots for predators and varmints.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Beautiful gun! Sounds like it was very effective!


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[Texas by God]

Notice that tinhorn and I did not advocate head shots. I have head shot exactly one deer while he was robbing my neighbor's winter garden. 30 yards, resting on the back porch, 22-250/70gr Speer. I waited till he had his head down eating before taking the shot. We had fresh back strap and turnip greens for supper. This will get me flamed but it is my truth- I've had more deer run after the shot using .308 Win and 8x57 and such than I ever have with 22-250, .243, .250 Savage, and 30-30. Based on behind the shoulder shots. I dont shoot at running deer unless they are 50 yards or closer. YMMV.

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[Tripplebeards]

Texas, wasn't calling you out or picking on you. I’ve have had tons of posters here say to head shoot deer, and I admitted I’m guilty as well of doing so. I just don’t condone it anymore unless it’s a finishing shot after seeing too many wounded deer running around.

[robinsroost]

Those Impala are beautiful graceful animals. Do you eat them, and if so, how do they compare to venison? Inquiring minds want to know. Keep yer powder dry...……..robin

[Texas by God]

No offense taken at all triple beards. We both do what works for us.

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[osteodoc08]

Those Impala are beautiful graceful animals. Do you eat them, and if so, how do they compare to venison? Inquiring minds want to know. Keep yer powder dry...……..robin

Great question

[smoked turkey]

I have been to South Africa twice and have taken and eaten meat from all animals taken. The meat was prepared for us (me and my two sons ) by folks that knew how to clean, process, prepare, and cook the African game. Nothing goes to waste if it can be eaten. The only animal I didn't like the taste of was warthog. The particular cuts we had was sausage. It was just too fatty tasting for my liking. Other than that it was very good. In answer to your question about Impala meat, it tastes a lot like our antelope. Some people can't develop a taste for it, but I thought it was all excellent meat. A lot of their plains game such as Impala, Blesbuck, Mountain Reed buck, and Kudu are in the same family as our antelope. All their game was called venison and what was not eaten by the hunters was sold at the meat market. I believe it is a big business there and the money goes to the owner of the parcel where we hunted.

[Fisher]

Those Impala are beautiful graceful animals. Do you eat them, and if so, how do they compare to venison? Inquiring minds want to know. Keep yer powder dry...……..robin

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246960

I have no idea what the game tastes like that you guys hunt, so unfortunately I can not make any kind of comparison.
Compared to al our other game species they are avarage, makes good biltong, dried- sosages (droëwors), and cooking sosages (boerewors). For general cooking it’s not very easy to create something really spectacular with impala. All our game gets really good if smoked and slow cooked in something like a Weber.

[T-Bird]

I went to the 330 Gould in my 45/70 for whitetail because I was having the no blood trail prob too. I only lost 1 animal because most didn't go far and none were in thick stuff, but I like to see a trail. I killed 1 deer with the Gould which didn't run at all. I haven't hunted with 45/70 lately so I don't know if my change helped the blood trail situation or not.