.32 S&W black powder?

[Ragnarok]

So how much black powder can you get into a modern .32 S&W short case and get a bullet in it?

I was messing around with a .32 long case cut down to .32 short length and it wouldn't hold more than maybe 6gr 3f at most....but then a cut-off long case isn't a factory short case either.

This for an ancient S&W double action revolver that isn't totally unfortunate but definitely well used.

Thanx Rag

[RED BEAR]

I just looked it up and it claims the original was loaded with 9 grains. I have never used black powder so i don't know. I have no black powder to test. Sorry.

[Outpost75]

9 grains would have been balloon-head cases.

Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers (1935) indicates 9 grains of black with 88-grain heeled bullet for 632 fps, whereas smokeless load was 1.4 grains of Bullseye for 725 fps, penetrating 3-1/2 pine boards 7/8" thick. Modern solid-head cases only hold about 7 grains of Goex 3Fg. In the top-breaks I size a single-0 buckshot to .314" and load 1.5 grains of modern Alliant Bullseye.

The .32 S&W Long case used 13 grains of black with a 98-grain inside-lubricated bullet for 770 fps, or 2 grains of Bullseye in the smokeless load for 790 fps. Modern .32 S&W Long solid-head cases hold about 10 grains of 3Fg black with compression.

[RED BEAR]

Thanks outpost i forgot all about them being balloon heads.

[Thundermaker]

A friend of mine got himself a little break top .32s&w and just had to fire it. We managed to find one box of magtech ammunition for it. I picked up the spent casings. Lo and behold, they were balloon head cases. Might be something to look into.

[Larry Gibson]

I've been pressure testing different 32 S&W and 32 S&WL cartridges lately. I always break down a few cartridges to get the data on bullet weight, type of powder and weight of powder for input into the computer program (Oehler M43 PBL). In some old WRA and UMC 32 S&W I found 7 and 6.5 gr of what looked like 4f BP in the balloon head cases under 88 gr lead bullets. In some later WCC with solid head cases I found 5 gr of what looked like 4f BP. That matches up with old data reported by Hatcher and Sharpe.

I have enough of the WRA and UMC to test......if they go bang....... I've some 32 S&Ws with solid head cases loaded with 5 gr of GOEX 4f and 5 gr of GOEX Superfine 3F under 90 gr cast SWCs ready to test.

[Ragnarok]

I have a bunch of gun-show reload .32 S&W longs that some Bubba loaded with un-lubed 77gr bullets. I had shot a few and discovered they leaded bad...pulled a couple bullets and found the bullets dry on every one. been looking for something to do with these crappy reloads.

I took 5 of these apart and salvage the bullets and shortened the brass to .600" as per the Lyman manual. The bullets measured .313" and there was no way they would fit back into the shortened brass...so I rolled them a bit to reduce the diameter to .308"/.309". I lubed the bullets with SPG. I used 3F Graf&Sons powder and 5.4gr(by weight) was as much powder as I could cram in and get the recycled bullets pressed back into the case enough to cover the lube grooves. It's a compressed load....built using improvised materials and equipment....could probably make about two .32 S&W cartridges per hour at my prototype ammo rate of production!

I notice the Lyman manual cautions against using reloads in old top-break .32 revolvers....I'm guessing the 5.4gr 3F charge(by weight...need to see what the volume measure is?) will likely be survivable for my ancient little S&W double action top-break revolver. It's still reasonably tight and everything works.....I'll report back if it KABOOMS!

[Ragnarok]

Ehh….The little S&W revolver didn't blow-up....the improvised BP .32S&W short loads shot really good at 15 feet!...I was impressed with the accuracy.....

The first shot and the gun hung-up....the pointy little S&W firing pin had pierced a primer!....The other 4 shots went better...but it's obvious the firing pin is rather pointed and looks to have come close to piercing the other primers....I'm thinking the pierced primer may have been a result of compressing the powder too much in that particular round. The primer had back-out a bit and had signs of pressure.

I will probably try a 5gr 3F load...maybe the S&W firing pin will be more friendly to lighter charge that's not so compressed.

This caliber is sort-of fun!...I'm going to have to buy some stuff and establish a real loading procedure for .32 S&W

Thanx for advice and inputs

[Washington1331]

I have an old lemon squeezer in 38 S&W, that I have successfully loaded with BP. Those non balloon heads can really affect how much powder you can get in the case. If I remember correctly, Goex said that I should be able to fit 15 grains of FFFg into the case. Yeah, and I still fit the pants that I wore as a teenager. I think that I was able to get 10 grains into the case and still be able to sit the boolit on top without too much compression.

That being said, the Goex website has a helpful chart with recommended loadings. They list out 4 grains of FFFg (by weight) under a 85 grain boolit as their recommended load for the 32 S&W. They claim this will give you 550 FPS at the muzzle at 1.28" COL.

Good luck, the old S&W top break revolvers are a real hoot to set off.

[GBertolet]

I am able to get 6.5 gr of 3F, with the Lyman 311252 77gr bullet, really compressed, with 6 gr being a more realistic figure.

[Ragnarok]

Can you use .32 S&W Long dies to load the shorts??

I've borrowed a buddy's inertia bullet puller he thinks will collet down small enough to unload .32 Longs....If I can get my gunshow reload .32 long ammo broken down I will have a bunch of the 77 gr bullets and primed long brass to convert into shorts. My pal thinks the reloading dies he has is for the .32 S&W long...I was going to borrow those too

[GBertolet]

If your friends 32 long dies are specifically dedicated to the 32 long, they won't work, as the expanding and seating dies would be too long to work on the shorter 32 S&W case. I have been all through this. I have the 32 long dies also. I wound up using the 32 acp die set I had, to load the 32 S&W with.

[swamp]

I use a set of Lee dies to load my 32 S&W. Don't know if they still list them. Got mine in a trade.
swamp

[Ragnarok]

My borrowed .32 S&W Long dies are RCBS and the sizing and bullet seating dies will work with shorts....the expander die is another story as the plug is too long to allow the expander part to even get to the case mouth and bottoms out in the .32 short case.

I made a few 5gr 3F cartridges last night and will see how these work in my old S&W .32 this evening. Five grains FFF seems like a perfect charge for my reformed brass and salvage bullets. The bullets seat with just a touch of compression on the powder

[toot]

thanks for the loading data on using single O size buck in them. will give it a try.

[Ragnarok]

Interesting phenomenon with the BP .32 S&W out of the old S&W revolver.....at 15 feet with five gr 3F shooting at a sheet of paper towel with a target drawn on it and several shots set the paper towel to smoldering! I didn't notice this with a sheet of typing paper the other day when I shot a few heavier loads(5.4gr BP). Never noticed this phenomenon shooting a little Uberti .31 Baby Dragoon with more powder at the same range. Probably something to do with the sheet of paper towel as a target because that's something I normally don't use as a target sheet.

Something else I noted is that this little revolver does not like Winchester small pistol primers. Doesn't shoot as accurate and as often as not the firing pin pierces the primer. Whatever brand primers are in the .32 Long cases I cut-down into .32 shorts are more accurate and have more or less normal primer strikes....

Just some observations

[Larry Gibson]

Can you use .32 S&W Long dies to load the shorts??

I've borrowed a buddy's inertia bullet puller he thinks will collet down small enough to unload .32 Longs....If I can get my gunshow reload .32 long ammo broken down I will have a bunch of the 77 gr bullets and primed long brass to convert into shorts. My pal thinks the reloading dies he has is for the .32 S&W long...I was going to borrow those too

I don't load a lot of 32 S&W because I don't have a revolver specific to that cartridge. Besides the Contender 32 H&R test barrel I have a M30 S&W chambered in 32S&WL and a Ruger SS (original run) in 32 H&R. Thus my interest in loading the diminutive 32 S&W is for pressure/velocity testing only.

I have Hornady loading dies marked 32S&W/H&R. They load the 32 S&WL and 32 HR cartridges very nicely. As to the shorter 32 S&W cartridges the sizer sizes and deprimes w/o problem.

The expander stem is not adjustable within the die body so adjustment is done moving the die in or out in the press. All the way down it just expands the inside of the sized case just right for a .314 bullet. However, it does not flare the case mouth so I use a Lee expander die to do that.

The Hornady seating die has a sliding collar which has the crimping part in it. The seating stem slides in the collar and is separate from the adjustment stem. I remove the adjustment stem and drop a 45 ACP FMJRN bullet into the seater die on top of the seating stem. That way it can be adjusted to seat the bullets to the crimp groove in the bullet. After all the bullets have been seated I remover the seating sem and with the 45 ACP bullet back in the seater die I can then adjust the collar to put the desired crimp on the cartridge.

Kind of a PITA but once I figured it out it's not really that bad. Get's the job done for me with what dies I have.

[Ragnarok]

I stopped in Bison Oklahoma this afternoon and the gun store had a couple boxes of Magtech .32S&W of which I bought a box and some CCI magnum small pistol primers. We shall soon see if Magtech .32 S&W is still balloon head brass or not

[Ragnarok]

Ehh no. Magtech .32 S&W is no longer balloon head/hollow head brass. It does have a bit more volume than my shortened W-W long brass.

The Magtech primers seem rather hard and my ancient S&W has issues setting them off....just the opposite of my loads with Winchester 1 1/2 primers which it would fire every time but often peirce

[Thundermaker]

Ehh yes, the ones I bought were, and I'm getting a little tired of people telling me I didn't see what I saw.

Granted, there's no telling how long that box of ammo had been sitting there.

[Ragnarok]

Ehh yes, the ones I bought were, and I'm getting a little tired of people telling me I didn't see what I saw.

Granted, there's no telling how long that box of ammo had been sitting there.

Oh I believe you...wouldn't have bought a box of those if I didn't

[Thundermaker]

I can see if he still has that brass if you're interested in playing with it.

[Ragnarok]

I'm getting along ok with the solid brass but I do appreciate the offer.

[Larry Gibson]

FYI;

Recently I pressure tested some 32 S&W loads.

Some old WRA factory with 88 gr RNL bullets over 7+ gr 4fg BP in balloon head cases went bang very nicely and ran at 10,800 psi.

Another lot of WRA with 88 gr RNL bullets over 7+ gr BP in solid head cases ran 16,200 psi.

Winchester 88 gr Lubaloy of recent manufacture had 1.8 gr of a ball powder in solid head cases and ran 18,900 psi

Remington UMC 88 gr RNL of relatively recent manufacture had 1.0 gr of flake powder in solid head cases and ran 13,300 psi.

Many older manuals show 1.5 gr Bullseye to be a max load with 88 - 98 gr cast bullets. The Hercules data showed 2.5 gr. I tested 1.5 gr Bullseye under the Lee 90 gr SWC seated to the 2nd lube groove. It ran 19,300 psi.....!!!

The old Hercules Data, circa 1968, give a load of 2.3 gr Red dot as a load with a 88 gr RNL bullet. I used a 90 gr Lee SWC loaded out to the 2nd lube groove. 1.5 gr Rd Dot ran 20,400 psi....!!! The max load of 2.3 gr ran 32,500 psi........yikes......

I also tested 5 gr GOEX 4fg in solid head cases under the Lee 90 gr SWC. Out of 10 shots I got one psi measurement of 9,400 psi. The other nine shots were less than that.

[curator]

Thanks Larry! I will be sure I stick with my 5-6 grains of Goex 4Fg black powder and the Lyman 77 grain LRN boolit in my S&W top break revolvers. They may lack in ballistic performance but they make up for it in a good loud BANG and lots of smoke.

[DaveM]

Timely thread, I just picked up a very nice S&W Number 1 1/2 Single Action, shipped from the factory in April 1878.

247775

On Sunday I won an eBay auction for an Ideal No.2 .32 S&W reloading tool. I'm hoping that the mold cavity is in good enough shape to produce useful bullets. I intend to use only black powder.

[DaveM]

Loaded some up today with bullets cast from the Ideal mold, 0.3cc Olde Eynsford FFFg, and CCI No.500 small pistol primers in once-fired Remington brass (I shot the smokeless Remington ammo in my Ruger Vaquero .32 H&R.)

248637

[Tracy]

Loaded some up today with bullets cast from the Ideal mold, 0.3cc Olde Eynsford FFFg, and CCI No.500 small pistol primers in once-fired Remington brass (I shot the smokeless Remington ammo in my Ruger Vaquero .32 H&R.)

248637

I have one of those loading tools in .32 S&W Long. I rarely use the built-in mold, but I do use the loader occasionally.