*URGENT* Original Remington 1858 Navy HELP

[Kev18]

Alright so let me start off by saying that I don't know anything or very little about revolvers, even less cap and ball. Im a rifle guy.
BUUUT im interested in buying one and a guy has a "Cheap" one for sale for 1400$. Around here they sell for 2500-3000 decent condition.

Now the issue is that he said someone ground down the original hammer so it doesn't engage in the safety notches, and they also ground down the face of the cylinder leaving a larger then original gap, causing alittle fps loss.

He is including a new Pietta hammer and cylinder.

The gun is browned patina all over, and he says the action is really nice and crisp, in shooting condition.

IS IT WORTH IT?

[John Boy]

The going price for NMA revolvers is in the ball park for the asking price for the one you think is a deal. Plus it is not Original after being buggered with
Shop around and condition is the key to value ... https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=1858%20remington

[rancher1913]

you can get a reproduction for a fraction of that, and use the rest of the money for supplies.

[Thumbcocker]

The OP's location is probably why he wants the original.

[Kev18]

The OP's location is probably why he wants the original.

You got it. Im not allowed to own any repros, only antiques.

[Battis]

I have an original that came with a spare Pietta cylinder that works just fine. Will the original hammer pop a cap? I have several antiques that will never be shooters, but if your goal is to get a shooter, make sure that a repro hammer will work if the original doesn't.
If it is a shooter, in good condition, that price is within reason (just remember how old it is when you shoot it). None of my antiques are everyday shooters.

[6string]

There are guys in Canada that can help. You should contact members of the Canadian International Muzzleoading Team. These guys compete with originals and know what it takes to keep them running.
Mike is the guy I know here in the US. He can be reached if you pm him via this thread.
He knows the Canadian guys well.

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59749

Alternatively, you can search online for the Canadian team and reach them directly.

[rancher1913]

You got it. Im not allowed to own any repros, only antiques.

learn something new every day around here.

[Cheeto303]

You got it. Im not allowed to own any repros, only antiques.

Thats why I moved from Kanaduh to Merika (legally) and became a citizen with 2A rights !!!

[dkonrai]

Thats why I moved from Kanaduh to Merika (legally) and became a citizen with 2A rights !!!Unless like me, behind the iron curtain of kommifornia

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[Kev18]

I have an original that came with a spare Pietta cylinder that works just fine. Will the original hammer pop a cap? I have several antiques that will never be shooters, but if your goal is to get a shooter, make sure that a repro hammer will work if the original doesn't.
If it is a shooter, in good condition, that price is within reason (just remember how old it is when you shoot it). None of my antiques are everyday shooters.

The guy said it worked fine. The rifling is strong and action is smooth and crisp.

[osteodoc08]

The guy said it worked fine. The rifling is strong and action is smooth and crisp.

Caveat emptor

[Gray Fox]

I would contact the folks on the 1858 Remington Forum where they have a bunch of folks knowledgeable about originals. 1858remington.com/discuss/index. GF

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Just remember, if you pay $1400 for this pistol that Bubba customized, you will have a very hard time ever selling it. If you want it that much, offer him a thousand bucks. If he says no, wave good-by. By the way, I live in Kommiefornia and I legally own many pistols both original and antique. Why don't you consider moving south, say to California. You are the kind of immigrant we need and would love to get.

[Kev18]

Just remember, if you pay $1400 for this pistol that Bubba customized, you will have a very hard time ever selling it. If you want it that much, offer him a thousand bucks. If he says no, wave good-by. By the way, I live in Kommiefornia and I legally own many pistols both original and antique. Why don't you consider moving south, say to California. You are the kind of immigrant we need and would love to get.

Thanks but il stay sipping my maple syrup for now. I bought it for 1100$.

[Outpost75]

Thanks but il stay sipping my maple syrup for now. I bought it for 1100$.

$1100-Cdn is a good, fair price in your neck of the woods. While your moving to California would improve the local demographic, you would feel more at home in West Virginia and you can make maple syrup here to mix with our local corn whisky.

245749245750245751245752245753

[smithnframe]

I wouldn't touch it at that price! Unless you have a source for an original cylinder and hammer!

[Outpost75]

I wouldn't touch it at that price! Unless you have a source for an original cylinder and hammer!

Be thankful you live in the USA and especially The Republic of Texas. In Canada they can't have repros, only antiques, not quite as bad as living in UK, but the Liberals are diligently working to make it so...

[Kev18]

Be thankful you live in the USA and especially The Republic of Texas. In Canada they can't have repros, only antiques, not quite as bad as living in UK, but the Liberals are diligently working to make it so...

Every year the law changes on Antiques and Handguns. This is my first Handgun so Il see how it goes.

[Kev18]

Im supposed to get the gun friday.

Can someone enlighten me on what caps to buy and I can use Conical or round ball right?

[Battis]

I use #11 caps and round balls. I also use FFG powder. As I said before, remember how old the gun is.

[Kev18]

FFF is probably to much pressure? The gun looks solid though. I just want to get it. Il probably end up casting my bullets. Even if it's 12$ for 100balls

[Battis]

I use FFG in my antiques to keep the pressure down. How much pressure difference is there between FFG and FFFG? I don't know. It's just something I do. As I said, I use a Pietta cylinder when I shoot my Remington. There is definitely something magic about handling an antique handgun, and even more so when you shoot it.
This is my Colt 1851 .36 in action.

[Kev18]

I use FFG in my antiques to keep the pressure down. How much pressure difference is there between FFG and FFFG? I don't know. It's just something I do. As I said, I use a Pietta cylinder when I shoot my Remington. There is definitely something magic about handling an antique handgun, and even more so when you shoot it.
This is my Colt 1851 .36 in action.
Like I said above the gun is coming with a pietta cylinder and hammer, but the seller said he just tried to fit the cylinder on and it doesnt fit?

[Battis]

He told you this after he sold it to you? Does he know what he's doing? Remingtons can be tricky.

[Kev18]

He told you this after he sold it to you? Does he know what he's doing? Remingtons can be tricky.

He told me before. He informed me of the issues and everything. He just tried fitting himself and said it didn't work but he also mentioned that he didnt have time to work on any guns because he had a huge rush where he works. So I suspect he wasn't paying attention.

You can imagine how bamboozled I was... I think you told me a Pietta fits and he said it doesn't. Its my first ever handgun so I don't know much.

[Kev18]

Anyone know a source for a .38 special cylinder in Canada? I can find spare ones just not the conversion...

[Battis]

Remington cylinders can be tricky to reinstall, especially if you don't know the gun. The Pietta cylinder works perfectly in mine. Do you know why the face of the original cylinder was ground down?

[Kev18]

I have no idea why it was ground down, it was, but barely. I have the gun in my hands now and the seller also grinded down the face to make it fit but the body is way to wide. It does not fit in the receiver at all. Look how big it is. And its the .36 cal one.

https://i.imgur.com/ZZ34YU3.jpg

[Kev18]

Pietta: 1.585 Diameter

Original: 1.475.

It cant fit... Unless I buff it out somehow.

[Battis]

How close is the original to fitting?

My Remington is .44. The original cylinder measures 1.6250". The repro measures 1.6010".

I also have an original Remington Beals .36. The cylinder measures 1.4830".

[onelight]

Just looking at the pics the bolt cuts in the cylinder don't look to be the same width either.

[Kev18]

Here's the fit of the original, took two pictures to show the spacing in between the receiver. You can see it properly with light in the back.

https://i.imgur.com/YaBlrlm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OJwlmqE.jpg

[Battis]

With the cylinder in place, does it rotate when you cock the hammer?

[Texas by God]

I would ask for a refund.

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[Kev18]

With the cylinder in place, does it rotate when you cock the hammer?

With the original cylinder gun works 100%. The repro doesn't even go in.

[Battis]

How much was taken off the cylinder face?

[Kev18]

How much was taken off the cylinder face?

Doesnt look like much. It would of been to long if it wasnt ground down.

[Battis]

Have you taken it apart to check the internals?

[Kev18]

Have you taken it apart to check the internals?

Ya everything is fine. My only issue is the spare cylinder... Nothing with the gun itself.
Box:
https://i.imgur.com/zZA1M4b.jpg

Massive difference:
https://i.imgur.com/9AovAo5.jpg

Size difference:
https://i.imgur.com/fU9jOeD.jpg

[Battis]

Are you sure that the replacement cylinder is .36?

[Kev18]

Are you sure that the replacement cylinder is .36?

The box says .36. Except the chambers are smaller but the cylinder bigger... makes no sense.

[Battis]

Well, the bottom line is that you have an original.
Have you looked for inspector's marks?

[Kev18]

Well, the bottom line is that you have an original.
Have you looked for inspector's marks?

Nope, no idea what those are. Il do some research I guess :)

[Kev18]

Nope, no idea what those are. Il do some research I guess :)

And do you know a site to check serial numbers?

[Battis]

When you take the gun apart, you'll see letters stamped on various parts. This chart will tell you who the inspector was.
http://proofhouse.com/cm/us_inspector.htm

This page should help in dating the revolver.
http://www.american-firearms.com/american-firearms/z-html/company-E/E.%20Remington%20&%20Sons/E.%20Remington%20&%20Sons.html

[Jniedbalski]

Looks like the holes in the new cylinder are 31 or32 cal not 36. For some reason they look smaller than the original

[Kev18]

Looks like the holes in the new cylinder are 31 or32 cal not 36. For some reason they look smaller than the original

They are smaller... I dont know why. They aren't .32 I jsut tried it with round balls and they just role down the cylinder.

[Kev18]

When you take the gun apart, you'll see letters stamped on various parts. This chart will tell you who the inspector was.
http://proofhouse.com/cm/us_inspector.htm

This page should help in dating the revolver.
http://www.american-firearms.com/american-firearms/z-html/company-E/E.%20Remington%20&%20Sons/E.%20Remington%20&%20Sons.html

I just have a T on mine. All the T inspectors have another letter after it.

[Battis]

For what it's worth, I have a Savage and North .36, a pretty obscure revolver. But I found and bought two spare cylinders for the gun on ebay at a decent price. Keep looking.

[Battis]

Mine also has what looks like a T. And several W

[Kev18]

Mine also has what looks like a T. And several W

There is no info on just a T

[Battis]

Yeah, it's not an exact science. Maybe it was Mr T: "I pity the fool who messes with my gun."

[Kev18]

What size round ball do you use for .36 cal?

[onelight]

I used .375 in mine all reproductions

[Kev18]

I used .375 in mine all reproductions

Thats what I bought but they are alittle loose in the cylinder and only tight in the barrel on certain areas. I did abit of research and people buy the lee .380 RB mold. Il still try shooting it whenever I get the chance.

[onelight]

Thats what I bought but they are alittle loose in the cylinder and only tight in the barrel on certain areas. I did abit of research and people buy the lee .380 RB mold. Il still try shooting it whenever I get the chance.
The balls really need to fit mine all cut a ring from the ball when seating which gives a much longer contact surface with the cylinder I always saw that as helping prevent chain fires.

[Kev18]

The balls really need to fit mine all cut a ring from the ball when seating which gives a much longer contact surface with the cylinder I always saw that as helping prevent chain fires.

Mine are from from shaving lead off. Il see how it shoots and probably purchase more of different size.

[dubber123]

Mine are from from shaving lead off. Il see how it shoots and probably purchase more of different size.

If you aren't familiar with the term "chain fire" that onelight mentions, it's when the fire from one cylinder lights off the charges in adjacent chambers. One of the most common causes is undersize projectiles in the chambers, just what you say you have. Be careful.

[Kev18]

If you aren't familiar with the term "chain fire" that onelight mentions, it's when the fire from one cylinder lights off the charges in adjacent chambers. One of the most common causes is undersize projectiles in the chambers, just what you say you have. Be careful.

I shot it this weekend for the first time. It works and all but I feel like im having way to much pressure loss from the short cylinder. Whenever I have spare time, il try rebuilding it with a mig welder. And is 20-25gr FFg a decent load? Because it was a small snap most of the time. Not a BP BOOM.

[root]

Not sure about the smaller guns all i own and shoot are the 44's.

I have a pile of them i shoot th with 30 grns. Of fff bp.

All 6 of the them shoot darn flat loaded that way.

If you are going to shoot conicals make sure they will fit in the loading slot.

My 4 piettra guns will not fit conicals my two ruger old armies will fit about any 45 cal. Bullet i've tried so far.
I have a bevel base 230 grn. Mold for the ROA's pair flat bas3 bullets almost always need to be loaded out of the gun to keep them square.

My rugers are from the 70's a 1977 blued and a bicentenial SS model.

Now for some pertinent info.

Last week there was a original 1858 remington cylinder on ebay for 160.00 USD
Was in excellent shape cylinder wise but needed new nipples.

And i saw another listed somewhere else but it was close to 300 USD.
Was pretty beat all the way around.

hard part will be convincing someone to ship up north.

I might be able to help with that if needed.

I have a Canadian friend that goes home to Ontario about 4 times a year as he works here in the states.

Rich

[LawrenceA]

Hi Kev
Mine uses #10's (#11's are longer) but the nipples may not be the originals. If they are a little loose then just squeeze them shut a little.
Yes you can use Ball or conical. Just make sure they are lubed properly.
I always put lube over the projectile to not just lube but to ensure I do not get chain fires. Not everyone does this so........
Remington's are known for getting stiff as the front of the cylinder/pin foul up so make sure to wipe it regularly.
Be careful. It is an old gun.
They are bloody good fun though!!