HELP!!! Looking for a new cartridge and rifle need some input!!!

[cumminsnut76]

Ok, so another of everyone's favorite threads. I need some opinions on a new cartridge. Yes I want to know what everyone thinks lol.
So here is some idea of what I am looking for. Let me know what you think

-small varmint cartridge smaller than 223 but larger than 22lr want center fire
-reloading for the cartridge is fine as long as dies and cartridges are readily available
-cast boolits are ok but will probably be mostly copper jacketed
-not wanting super high velocity somewhere around 2000-2400 out of a carbine length barrel
-also looking for a rifle. prefer bolt action with a magazine but i do have an encore so custom barrel is an option
-wanting a lightweight walking varmint type rifle
-would like to keep muzzle report to a minimum
-been looking at the 22 tcm, 22 hornet, 218 bee, 256 win mag, 5.7x28 etc.
-not interested in a suppressed round

Give me your opinions!

[bmortell]

222 is smaller than 223 :razz:
thats my favorite small caliber, very accurate, idk if 14 twist will allow mild loads while still being stable tho. I imagine 35gr vmax or similar would work fine. mine with normal loadings starts losing stability with 50gr nosler boat tail ballistic tip but 50gr soft points are stable

[robg]

222 is the one

[country gent]

Never worked with 22 tcm so cant comment there. 22 Hornet and its guises is a fine cartridge. good for around 150 yds on chucks, can be accurate is mild both recoil and report. Brass can be harder to find but components are available. Loading is straight forward and standard equipment is all thats needed. Rifles can be harder to find, most that have them hang onto them. 218Bee is a good cartridge brass can be nonexistent at times. Falls in between hornet and 222 rem performance wise in a good rifle 250 yds maybe 300yds. rifle are much rarer in this caliber and a custom may need to be built. 222remington is a fine cartridge held many bench rest records for many years. In a good rifle 300-350 yds is do able brass and components are available readily rifles are more prevalent though again those that have them hang on to them. Cases can be formed from 223 brass in a bind fairly easily. Its a mild mannered cartridge easy on components with 50-55 grn bullets is very effective round. A little over your desired velocity range though. Again I haven't worked with the last 2 any so cant comment there either.

A bolt action is harder to find in the rimmed cartridges, But a martini cadet rebarreled to either makes a fine light weight rifle Mine with 20" shilen sporter barrel weights around 6 lbs.. The 222 rem works thru short actions and is normally very reliable. Savage Remington Winchester and others have all made rifles in this caliber. A 700 short action with sporter barrel will go around 8lbs.

The last route to remove questions is to have one of the custom makers make a encore barrel in each caliber for you and have gun with them. LOL

[atr]

I think the .222 is the way to go.
Or second best would be the 22 Hornet.
I have both and enjoy shooting both but the .222 is my favorite of the two.

There are good .222's out there.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

One of my 'favourites' is a little 218 Mashburn Bee, my rifle built on a Cadet martini with a 20" barrel and weighs only 6 1/2 lbs with a 4x Pecar scope mounted!

[3leggedturtle]

YMMV but here is my thoughts! .17 MachIV, .204 Ruger or 25/45 Sharps. I have a 256WM, i really like it but an MGM barrel in 25/45 throated for boolits gives you lots of cheap and easy to find brass. Plus it can send an 87gr bullet at close 2900fps if need be. I spent 9 months deciding on which pistol caliber for a Contender carbine, so understand the dilemna and process. Midsouth has great prices on .17 and .20 cal bullets in bulk, if that helps. Todd/3leg

[rking22]

222Rem is probably the best choice but exceeds your velocity window. I have always thought a 221fireball would be just perfect. Then there is the 256 Win Mag as an obscure interesting one. It is rimmed but can easily be made from 223 brass to feed in a bolt gun easily. Personally , I would just go 222Rem, readily available and cast friendly throats and twist rate.

[gumbo333]

Yep, 221 fireball, very efficient and effective.

[ABJ]

I grew up with a Remington 722 in 222 Remington. Been loading and shooting that gun for fifty years. I do not have a reason to trade for any other caliber in its class, but I already have it. But If I didn't have it, it would be a hard choice to make. The 22 hornet has always been around in the family and friends and is a little easier to down load and maintain accuracy in my opinion. I have never loaded or messed with the other's you asked about. The 222 has done everything I needed it to do with extreme accuracy. But for a light walking around gun I would think the 22 hornet has been around so long that there are a lot of guns chambered in it. If you are looking for used guns the 222 and 22 hornet should give you the most choices.
Keep us posted on what you decide.
Tony

[cumminsnut76]

OK so how is muzzle blast and report on the 222 compared to the 223? I have a Ruger bolt gun in 223 and like it a lot but i'm wanting something a little easier on the ears and a little more pleasant to shoot. Also wanting something the wife will want to shoot more, she does not like the muzzle blast of my 223. Also realistically 150 yards or less will probably be the norm. Keep them coming I appreciate the help!!!!!

[Texas by God]

I've never been a party pooper, but you already have what you need in the .223. Just load it to do what you want. You can approximate any smaller cartridge by judicious loading.
Sorry; I'm not usually the voice of reason either. I'll shut up![emoji16]

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[MT Gianni]

17 Hornet, 22 hornet or 222 in that order. Loaded to your level a 17 cal 25 gr still explodes things @ 2400 fps. Get a contender carbine bbl and you will soon have all 3.

[trapper9260]

I got a 22-250 and got it to shoot like a 22lr for the load and cast boolit .It works for me . It will have more use for what ever I want. Just a idea to give.

[pertnear]

Sounds like a .25-222 Copperhead is what you need.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?146875-25-222-copperhead

BTW: Howa makes a mini-bolt action perfect for this project. Reasonably priced too.

[bmortell]

kinda had a good point there, 223 even with jacketed can be loaded all the way down to subsonic then its basically a 22, and it probably already has a twist more suited to reduced speeds. id atleast research and try some reduced loads. even if only to give you an idea what kinda specs you like

[cumminsnut76]

I've never been a party pooper, but you already have what you need in the .223. Just load it to do what you want. You can approximate any smaller cartridge by judicious loading.
Sorry; I'm not usually the voice of reason either. I'll shut up![emoji16]

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HAHA I totally agree but then where is the fun in not buying a new gun? lol

[stubshaft]

One of my 'favourites' is a little 218 Mashburn Bee, my rifle built on a Cadet martini with a 20" barrel and weighs only 6 1/2 lbs with a 4x Pecar scope mounted!

I have basically the same setup with a slightly different scope. It is a fun and accurate cartridge without the hangups of weak brass like the hornet (I have a couple of those too).

[Hickory]

At one time CZ sold rifles chambered in 221 fireball which is a very accurate, but, short range round.

[rking22]

If you load your 223 down to the velocity and pressure range that you indicated, it would be hard to tell from a 222 at that same level. The Hornet will be a bit more mild, as would a Bee or 221 fireball( name not withstanding).

[scotth]

the 25-20 would fit your needs

[dverna]

I've never been a party pooper, but you already have what you need in the .223. Just load it to do what you want. You can approximate any smaller cartridge by judicious loading.
Sorry; I'm not usually the voice of reason either. I'll shut up![emoji16]

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Listen to the above and save your money. Cheap brass, cheap bullets, can be downloaded to meet your goals.

[sureYnot]

Listen to the above and save your money. Cheap brass, cheap bullets, can be downloaded to meet your goals.Plus one

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[StrawHat]

Both Savage and Ruger make bolt actions chambered for the 22 Hornet. I am not aware of any rifles currently chambered for the 222. A shame as it is a-good cartridge.

Kevin

[atr]

the .223 is nothing more than the .222 slightly reconfigured.
same basic case: the .223 was created from the .222 by moving the shoulder up slightly. This reduced the length of the neck but also increased the powder capacity. Reducing the length of the neck was not a problem since the .223 is a military cartridge and the seated bullets are crimped.

[DocSavage]

Another vote for the 221 Fireball,the older Speer manuals had reduced loads using 5744 for the 223 and as I recall they were in the 22 mag in velocity.

[Geezer in NH]

Think of a silencer instead. Wife won't mind the reduced sound for sure!

[McFred]

I think a CZ 527 in .221 Fireball will fit your criteria:

1. New-to-you lightweight gun; bolt action.
2. Moderate velocity .22 caliber centerfire.
3. Mag fed.
4. dies and brass readily available


i'm wanting something a little easier on the ears and a little more pleasant to shoot.

I don't know why you're not interested in a suppressor, it will do precisely what you say you're looking for above. Where's the fun in not shopping for something that will reduce the noise, muzzle blast and recoil? With a suppressor you can run the .223 Rems at full pressure/velocity while being even easier on your ears than an unsuppressed .22 Hornet (which is also available in a CZ 527). Naturally, you should be using hearing protection anyway, but I'll save you the lecture for another day.

[sigep1764]

Ive heard good things on the Savage 25 Walking Varminter in 22 Hornet. Since you're in Mexico Mo, there is a Winchester Model 70 in 223 on Armslist in STL for $400. Ive been staring at it and wouldn't mind too much knowing it went to a fellow Castboolits member.

[stubshaft]

If you want a challenge there is always the 22 K-hornet.

[wch]

22 K Hornet- you'll love it!

[WheelgunConvert]

22 TCM is a cantankerous bastage to work out a load. 22 Hornet accuracy is more easily achieved in a rifle.

[rking22]

The CZ 22 Hornet would fill your bill well,I love mine. I will say thay my CZ527 is a 1 in 16 twist, that said it shoots a speer 50 gr simispitzer just fine. Still need ear plugs but not like 223.

[RJM52]

.223 and try some Blue Dot powder....

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/223-and-bluedot-powder.3907056/

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/printthread/Board/12/main/413739/type/thread

[TCLouis]

I'm thinking that you should have a 222 in your future.
Hornet is also possibility, but not sure of a really good rifle for it and I would go straight to K Hornet.

[JFE]

As others have suggested a 223 or 222 loaded down will suit your purposes. I load down a 223 using 40gr HP's designed for 22mag. I load it down because the bullets aren't accurate loading them much faster. Performance is between 22mag and 22 Hornet. Noise and blast are way down compared to 223 levels.

I also have a 22 Hornet but I find it easier to find an accurate reduced load for the 223 than an accurate load for the 22 Hornet.

[waco]

I have a CZ527 in .221 Fireball. Sounds about what you are looking for.

[MT Chambers]

I agree on the Mashburn Bee and the K-hornet, both have optimized cases without the long sloping shoulder. My .218 Mashburn bee pushes a 40 gr. j-word bullet at 3350 fps with CFE BLACK powder.

[wallacem]

The 221 fireball is the one you are looking for, you just don't know it yet. Actually, you can take any one of the 22 centerfires and load them to whatever speed you want and they will perform great. I had a friend recently with a Remington 700 in .223, loaded it to 2000fps and can shoot .25" groups at 100 yds consistantly. If you already have a 22 centerfire just work with it. Otherwise, buy a 221 fireball. Wallacem in Ga

[charlie b]

IMHO, the only reason to not use the .223 is if you have a shorter/lighter action that is just long enough to accept a .221 Fireball.

For the 'ultimate' in light weight find a break action or falling block and chamber for one of the rimmed cartridges like a Hornet.

[Eddie Southgate]

My pick is the .218 Bee but brass is getting hard to find so I would suggest the .22 Hornet with the chamber reamed to K Hornet spec . Ruger and CZ both make nice rifles in standard Hornet and opening the chamber should not cost a lot but makes the cartridge MUCH easier to load . Use standard .22 Hornet and fire form to the K chamber . My favorite powder ( Win 680 ) is no longer available but AA1680 is basically the same and 12.5 gr of it or Littlegun lit by a small pistol primer gives very small groups in my m43 Winchester with Hornady 35 gr bullets . Great thing about the Hornets and the bee is you can load down to .22 Lr velocity for tree rats with cast or load up for larger game . The native people in Alaska used both for just about anything that walked from Seals to Polar Bears .

Eddie