Magnums and aging wrists

[Thumbcocker]

Took a 4 5/8" SBH to the range and ran about 30 full snort loads through it. Wrist on shooting hand was and is complaining some today. I have shot a pile of full snort magnums over the past 30 years with no issues. Should I be looking for a wrist brace of some kind? Life without full house .44's would just suck.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Not a coin toss for me 7gr / 8gr of Unique is all I need now

[Nobade]

Yep, I'm done with that stuff now. The time I met Gary Reeder at the SHOT show with a cast on his wrist from shooting heavy handguns convinced me.

[osteodoc08]

I’m probably your junior at 38 yo and find that box after box of full house magnum be it, 41, 44, 45 Colt, 480 Ruger is no longer pleasant and I have toned down most of my leadings. I keep full tilt stuff around and use it but I’ve noticed that it doesn’t take full tilt to harvest stuff in GA and for targets, they don’t notice either. Sounds like ole Arther has snuck up on ya buddy.

A good leather shooting glove will help some but the only way around it is to tone down the loads.

[Drm50]

I have only one gun tuned for heavy magnum loads. A Ruger SBH and it's been sighted that way since 1964, it's my main deer pistol. It shoots good with the load and is only revolver I shoot jacketed bullets in. I have a lot of S&Ws and only have one 25-5 loaded for standard 250gr RNFP at standard velocity. I figured out a long time ago that unless you have use or cause for magnum loads it's a waste of powder & lead.

[Froogal]

8.5 grains of unique under a 200 grain bullet is plenty enough snort for my .45 Colt. I'm 68 years old, and all of my joints are complaining.

[tazman]

I started taking Glucosamine chondroitan for my knees and found it helped the pain in my wrists from recoil as well. Took about 4-5 weeks to kick in.

[Thumbcocker]

I started taking Glucosamine chondroitan for my knees and found it helped the pain in my wrists from recoil as well. Took about 4-5 weeks to kick in.

Been taking that for a few years now.

[dverna]

I believe John Taffin commented on this years back. He regretted it. Those heavy loads damage your wrists eventually.

Not sure if a brace will help much but dialing them down would be wise if you shoot a lot. Better to shoot longer into life than cause permanent damage.

[Shuz]

I believe John Taffin commented on this years back. He regretted it. Those heavy loads damage your wrists eventually.

Not sure if a brace will help much but dialing them down would be wise if you shoot a lot. Better to shoot longer into life than cause permanent damage.

That's been my philosophy for the past 40 years shooting the .44 mag. I'm 78, and my wrists are fine, but I no longer shoot full snort loads as much as I used to. I find that I really enjoy a 200 to 225g boolit at around 1000fps.

[daloper]

I have been experimenting with finding loads using Red Dot for my .44 Mag.SRH and my Ruger .480 Not as young as I use to be. Also found that the hot rod loads blow through my back stop and make it hard to recover lead for recasting.

[gnoahhh]

I too turned my back on macho handgun loads back during the Reagan administration. Pain does not equate to fun for me. The trail of satisfying paper targets and dead small/medium sized critters I've left behind me for nigh on 40 years is testimony to the fact that nasty recoil isn't a prerequisite for effectiveness. At the tender age of 66 I'm glad to have learned at least a couple lessons in life, this being one of them.

[dkf]

I have more fun shooting light sub 200gr loads in my .44mag than full power loads. I am lucky to have arm and hand strength above average but I still don't care to shoot more than 50 or so .44mag full loads per range trip.

[kenyerian]

Yep, getting older makes some activities more painful . I let the grandsons shoot the heavy stuff and I stick with the mid range.

[gnostic]

I lost the feeling in two fingers of my right hand, from shooting a coffee can full of 300 grain bullets and a stout load of WW296 from a Dan Wesson and SBH. I bought a kevlar shooting glove and it helped, a bit. I came to the conclusion, that if I needed body armor, I'm shooting too much gun. Thinking back on it, I should have put a scope on my handgun, the additional weight would have calmed the recoil down. It took over a year for the tingling and numbness to go away. I won't be doing that again...

[Texas by God]

Time for ugly Hogues or Pachmayrs sounds like! I loaded 50 .41 magnum 210gr XTP with max load of LilGun 6 years ago. I killed a buck with one, grouped a few, and the rest just sit there while I shoot lead around 1000fps. If I need anything bigger, out comes a rifle.

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[mattw]

Yup, been shooting 41's for decades now and love them... but I find that the best are with 2400 now as they really do not hurt. I still shoot a few full house from time to time just to remind myself what my hunting loads feel like.

Anything with black hawk in the name makes my hands cringe. I just can't shoot those, will stick to my normal S&W grip angle and shape as well.

[Thumbcocker]

[QUOTE=Texas by God;4687402]Time for ugly Hogues or Pachmayrs sounds like! I loaded 50 .41 magnum 210gr XTP with max load of LilGun 6 years ago. I killed a buck with one, grouped a few, and the rest just sit there while I shoot lead around 1000fps. If I need anything bigger, out comes a rifle.

The SBH had Hogues on it.

[daloper]

My SRH has Hogues already also.

[Highway41]

I keep a couple of boxes of 41 full throttle 170 and 210 grain jhps loaded up for very occasional shooting most of which is through my Henry lever now. When someone at the range wants to see what its like I let them drop the hammer on a couple of full throttle rounds out of the Redhawk or Blackhawk. But 99%+ of my 41 shooting is 8 gr of unique under anything cast, such a sweet load that's easy on both the shooter and gun.

I am only in my 50's but have recently become sensitive to extended range sessions even with my 45acp's to the point I just picked up P320 M17 and I'm really liking it so far.

[tazman]

Thumbcocker, I don't know what to suggest that you have not already tried. I doubt you would be happy with a brace.
Sometimes the least appetizing option is the only viable one.

[fatelk]

I'm glad to see I'm far from the only one. I'm still fairly young yet, compared to most of you all, but heavy magnum loads just aren't fun any more. I like my S&W Model 29s, and don't plan on getting rid of them any time soon, but any time I take them out I rarely shoot more than a cylinder or two of full power loads.

[Hickory]

32's will claim the day when you can't take it anymore.

[nueces5]

Evidently your wrist is warning you that you need less powder or a heavier weapon.

[trapper9260]

I use weight lifting gloves and take care of the the problems I been have.

[RED BEAR]

The only thing i shoot full bore is my 41 mag carry gun. And just because i like to practice with equilvent loads. The right grips help but nothing gonna make it really pleasant. I can take about 2 boxes at a time then its light loads.

[charlie b]

I stopped shooting heavy loads when I was around 40. Woke up too many mornings with sore wrists.

Now days (25yrs later) I even stopped shooting full bore .357's.

Sucks getting older. :)

Reminds me a a story by Warren Miller, the guy who does snow skiing movies. He said that the knees only have so many bumps in them. You can use them all up when you are young or spread them out over a lifetime.

[45-70marlin]

Battling the same problem myself at 62. I am selling my 1911 because of weight and recoil. My wrist and thumb hurt after a short time of shooting. I bougtht a Ruger p345 as it is much lighter than that 1911. I haven't shot it much yet so we will see. I also bought a Ruger p95 incase I have to go lighter recoil. Getting old sux.

[Wild Bill 7]

I also load down on the mags. Loved full snort loads but now the 1000 fps or so are much more fun. 44's and 41 mag. I do get to shoot the Smith 500 with my friend and the 700 grain boolit is a handful to say the least. We shoot what he calls sissy Mary loads to the holy moly that is a handful loads. Puts a smile on your face every time you pull the trigger. LOL.

[Tom W.]

Indeed it does. I still shoot stout loads from my SRH .44, but 99% of my plinking now is with my 9mm LC9s Pro and my CZ 75 SP-01. I'm losing weight pretty quickly now, no need to beat myself to death.

[Texas by God]

Thumbcocker, 5/8th snort will kill deer too. Just creep a bit closer[emoji16]

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[LUBEDUDE]

It’s not all in the wrist.

In my mid 30s I developed nerve damage from the tips of fingers going up to my shoulders. The grip of my ring and pinky fingers on both hands are about the strength of a 4-5 year old at best.

I also developed problems with the elbows and forearms even though I gave up 44 mag. The 45 acp starting it’s work on me as well. Thank God for Gabapentin! Not a cure, but makes living worth while.

I had 4 surgeries in my right arm, some worked, some didn’t. So I’m very hesitant considering doing them to my left arm.

38 is now my caliber of choice with limited 45 acp in small amounts.

[LAH]

I started taking Glucosamine chondroitan for my knees and found it helped the pain in my wrists from recoil as well. Took about 4-5 weeks to kick in.

Been on that stuff for close to 20 years. Wonder where I'd be today if I hadn't?

[LAH]

I'll add this & I'm probably one of the few but for hard kickers I like the S&W N Frame a 100 times better than a Blackhawk/Bisley of any kind. I like the recoil directly into the palm of my hand instead of all the rolling & twisting. Sure is a lot less painful for me.

[Walks]

The Wrist Brace helps my Right Hand. But I've still got to shoot Left Handed. And My SBH 7 1/2" is too heavy.

Both shoulder, forearms and hands are crumbling.
I can still handle .45ACP Light Target Loads. Light .22's are best.

[tazman]

I gave up on 44 magnum years ago. I can still shoot full bore 357 magnum and 45ACP no problem. Mostly I shoot target loads for the practice. I still struggle with holding steady.

[Three44s]

HS6!

The RCBS 250K magnum primers and 11.8 gr of HS6@ 24K psi. A great load in the 44mag

Three44s

[fatelk]

Isn't it funny how we come full circle sometimes? Most people start out with a .22 revolver or something, then go on to bigger and better, then eventually over the years end up coming back to something along the lines of what they started with.

When I was young I was all about bigger is better, more rounds in the magazine, faster shooting. My first "really cool" gun was a WWII M1 Carbine I bought at a garage sale 30 years ago. I was thrilled to get that gun to a degree I haven't been about a material possession in a very long time. It was "GI"!

I started with a couple nice S&W revolvers, but soon revolvers were passé and wonder-nines were in. Through the years various other semi-auto rifles came and went, ARs, AKs, etc.. I was into straight-shooting bolt actions for a while. I got better and more pistols and revolvers. After that phase I was into mil-surp guns for a while. My eclectic interests waxed and waned.

Nowadays the semi-autos are either gone or sit mostly unused in the safe (though I still have my carbine!). The magnums and high-cap pistols don't get a lot of use. My range partner lately is my 13yo son, and more often than not we're shooting .22lr rifles and revolvers.

[Petrol & Powder]

For the OP, I think the consensus is that it just isn't worth damaging your body. Dial the loads back.

I'm proficient with magnums but I don't shoot them much. You use the same techniques and practice the same fundamentals with lighter loads. There's not much to be gained by doing damage to your body.

As for single actions, I've never cared for them. I don't dislike them, they just aren't for me. The SA grip doesn't work for me and I prefer DA revolvers, in part, due to the grip.

[buckwheatpaul]

Took a 4 5/8" SBH to the range and ran about 30 full snort loads through it. Wrist on shooting hand was and is complaining some today. I have shot a pile of full snort magnums over the past 30 years with no issues. Should I be looking for a wrist brace of some kind? Life without full house .44's would just suck.

My .44 mag load used to be 20 gr. of 2400 in front of Keith 240 gr. SWC......now 7gr to 8 gr of Unique make me happy!

[Preacher Jim]

The right shoulder caused me to down size to nothing heavier recoiling than 308 with 150 grn. And no magnum hand gun loads shoot 44spc loads in my magnums still shoot a few herret loads once in a while but limited to no more than 10 at a session. All my 1911 loads are target.
When I hit 70 I had to give up heavy recoil and I do not miss the big boomers because at least I can still get a full day at the range. The price we pay for the sport we enjoy. We adapt and enjoy what we can do.

[dverna]

Glad to see other like minded people. I have never shot a full house .44 Mag. The .357 was my limit and I have no desire to go bigger. I have not shot a .357 Mag in 10 years as I have no need to. I will be loading some full power loads for the .357 rifles but not for the pistols.

Recoil has never been "fun" for me in any gun. Had to add a muzzle brake on the .300 Win Mag. My trap gun is heavy with 2 3/4 dram loads for most events and a light 1 oz load for the first shot of doubles. I took second place at the state shoot one year with a light 1 1/8 oz load (less than 2 3/4 dram equiv) so getting pounded is not necessary to be effective.

If I hunted with a pistol it would be different but I do not. I use a rifle for harvesting deer.

Like all of us here, I love to shoot. For me that means acceptable recoil. If someone can handle more recoil, that is great but they should realize it is having a long term effect on them. I am going to be 69 this year and hope to keep shooting another 15 years so I can use up my stash of components...LOL.

[Froogal]

Glad to see other like minded people. I have never shot a full house .44 Mag. The .357 was my limit and I have no desire to go bigger. I have not shot a .357 Mag in 10 years as I have no need to. I will be loading some full power loads for the .357 rifles but not for the pistols.

Recoil has never been "fun" for me in any gun. Had to add a muzzle brake on the .300 Win Mag. My trap gun is heavy with 2 3/4 dram loads for most events and a light 1 oz load for the first shot of doubles. I took second place at the state shoot one year with a light 1 1/8 oz load (less than 2 3/4 dram equiv) so getting pounded is not necessary to be effective.

If I hunted with a pistol it would be different but I do not. I use a rifle for harvesting deer.

Like all of us here, I love to shoot. For me that means acceptable recoil. If someone can handle more recoil, that is great but they should realize it is having a long term effect on them. I am going to be 69 this year and hope to keep shooting another 15 years so I can use up my stash of components...LOL.

The real beauty of a .357 magnum is that they will shoot .38 specials just fine.

[root]

The real beauty of a .357 magnum is that they will shoot .38 specials just fine.

I just got my son on the new model Blackhawk and 38 wadcutters loaded down to super light.
He's 9 years old. At 25 ft he was having a 50/50 hit on the target.
Was his 1st time on a pistol.

I skipped the 22 pistol with him and started him on a large frame revolver so he won't be recoil sensitive.

I'm 50 and am still shoot hot 44's out of a 4 inch 629 MG a Model 29 6.5 and a SBH 5.5 inch.

The SBH has the most thump and it's the heaviest of the 3 handguns.

The 44 mag was my 1st handgun @ the age of 17 Followed by a G17 then a 22 RF, 22 it was my 3rd handgun


While my neck and back are bad my wrists are still good and the 44 is pretty much all I new as a teen, my ole man started me off on a S&W 357 full power reload when I was 12.

I've tagged a few deer over the years with the SBH I think with me it's a matter of all I've ever really shot so I don't know any better really.

I was shooting that new GP100 10mm and while I thought is was next to nothing my buddy said it kicked like a mule.
A lot of it is perception I think and what you are used to.

I've always prefered a large frame revolver over any other hand gun.
I do own a lot of semi's but I just have a love for a good heavy six shooter.


I will say I've seen some good tips in this thread for if/when my wrists start to complain when I get older.
None of us are getting any younger that's for sure.

Rich

[Rich/WIS]

Same here, found out a long time ago that light loads killed paper just as well as magnum loads. Right hand and wrist is about shot, could no longer manage even light 357 and 44 loads. M29, M686, and M27 went down the road. Still shoot my 1911 with a 190 SWC and 3.1 grs Bullseye (reduced springs) but 50 rounds is my limit, and issue has become weight of the pistol. By 50 rounds it has become painful just holding it up and keeping a firm grip. To spend extra range time got a Ruger MKIII 22/45 which is light enough to still be pleasant. Except for deer hunting all my rifle shooting is with light cast loads to minimize recoil. As someone noted shooting isn't fun when it hurts.

[Thumbcocker]

I have a couple of Bisley .44 specials that were worked over by Bill Olgasby that are scary accurate. 8.0 of Power Pistol under a Keith is the load of choice. I suppose I could load 9.0 of Power Pistol in the magnums. Mrs. Thumbcocker got me a Bisley .44 magnum in 1990 for an engagement present. First handgun I ever hit targets with at 200 yards. For the past 15 or so years I have deer hunted with .44 revolvers and bow or cross bow exclusively. I have history with the .44 magnum. I hope to retire in 2022. I will have 33 years in and will be well vested in my pension. I have held a vision of retirement being me striding forward into the future with decent health, spending quality time with Mrs. Thumbcocker and doing lots of shooting. It is amazing how we can start kidding ourselves and playing the I can still do.... game. Sigh. Time always wins in the end. Hopefully the compromises won't be too bad. Thank you all for the prospective.

[onelight]

Every season has its good and bad , I have leaned to adjust and enjoy.

[am44mag]

I figure when I get too old and decrepit to shoot my 44 mags, I'll switch to shooting more 44 special, 45 acp, and 45 colt. That's thankfully a long ways off for me. Those rounds might not satisfy your inner recoil junkie, but they are fine rounds nonetheless.

[RED BEAR]

The real beauty of a .357 magnum is that they will shoot .38 specials just fine.

I shot 38 spec so much and for so long in my 357 that when i did try some 357 couldnt get them in not close. I used to just love my magnums but the love affair ended. Age and arthritis did it in.

[tazman]

I shot 38 spec so much and for so long in my 357 that when i did try some 357 couldnt get them in not close. I used to just love my magnums but the love affair ended. Age and arthritis did it in.

At least that is an easy fix. Just clean the chambers really well. When you get rid of the carbon buildup, the 357 cases will chamber fine.

[Three44s]

My first 44 Mag was and is a Ruger Redhawk 7.5” SS. The learning curve was pretty steep at first.

I discovered lighter loading and also bought an SW in 22Lr. The long tubed Ruger though a formidible gun did not fit my idea of an easy carry particularily horseback.

So I added a S&W 629 Mountain gun (4”). Lighter practice loads were now in even greater demand then. Ultimately I also acquired a Ruger SRH in 9.5” figuring on a barrel chop for that one. I loved it too much to have it chopped but ultimately traded it for a SRH in 480 Ruger.

[smkummer]

At 58, shooting is about fun for me. 9 grains unique in my 45 Colt with a 250 grain bullet hits all the way out to 200 yards in my 7 1/2” colt new service. 7.8 grain unique in my 44 special with a Keith 245 does the same. These are my long range loads. 75% of my shooting is with standard or plus P 38 special though.

[Bill*B]

A Ruger Alaskan in .480 soured me on heavy handgun loads. I shoot for pleasure, not for pain. My current go-to revolver is a .38 Special.

[murf205]

Took a 4 5/8" SBH to the range and ran about 30 full snort loads through it. Wrist on shooting hand was and is complaining some today. I have shot a pile of full snort magnums over the past 30 years with no issues. Should I be looking for a wrist brace of some kind? Life without full house .44's would just suck.

No..no it wont suck, but if you like 'em keep shooting 'em till your body tells you different. I have been pleasantly suprised at how well a 1000 fps 250 gr Keith will penetrate. I love the big bore handguns but they don't need to go full house to be fun. I would be telling you a lie if I said that I can shoot as small of groups with full tilt loads as I do with 1k fps loads (or less). The guns I have are the ones I really want to keep and pass on to my son and grandson so me, being a bit long of tooth, have decided to tame the beast a bit.
I have owned 3 or 4 SBH Rugers over the years and that @#$% square back trigger guard hurt me every time I shot them. When I went the SRH route, all the pain went away. I had 2 RedHawks that were pretty pleasant to shoot as well and they were in my "load 'em hot and shoot a lot" days. So it might not be the "full snort" loads that are giving you some grief but the grip design. A shooting glove is a small investment and if you use one, I hope it works for you. In my experience, if I fell down with a pair of gloves on, I would have to take them off to get up!

[Tripplebeards]

I have put a good 200 plus rounds through my titanium 44 mag S&W 329NG in the last two weeks.


The first day I bought it I shot two 8 oz water bottles with the first three shots at thirty yards with full throttle 240 grain factory loads. I hadn’t shot it for a couple years and could hit the broad side of barn with it. I tried a bunch of trail boss loads through it last year and it still bucks hard...and shot extremely low. I believe my eyes have changed as I decided to go give it heck and tame the beast the last couple weeks. The first thing I did is I started wearing gloves as it ripped skin off my right middle finger when recoiling. I have been to the range with it a good six plus times in the last two weeks with full throttle loads and have again tamed the beast! I had to schim the fixed rear sight. I removed the rear sight and stacked three aluminum schims under it and screwed it back down. Problem solved as I went from a good 6/8” low at 10 yards to about .5”/1” high at 15 yards and slamming shots together. What doesn't kill ya makes you stronger! I’m in the market for a Ruger super Blackhawk hunter if someone wants to give up the grey ghost.

[Petander]

Glucosamine here,too.

I started it a couple of years ago because of shoulders / bow shooting. Helps a lot,most probably helps with wrists,too.

Now I can shoot warm 500 S&W and 45-70 again, every week. Not crazy amounts but to keep the touch.

[Tripplebeards]

Glucosamine here,too.

I started it a couple of years ago because of shoulders / bow shooting. Helps a lot,most probably helps with wrists,too.

Now I can shoot warm 500 S&W and 45-70 again, every week. Not crazy amounts but to keep the touch.


Sounds like I need to try some. I feel out of a tree two years ago and ended up with Lymes disease a week later. Both my shoulder joints hurt like they’re broke at times when I raise my arms after the combination ordeal. A lot of physical labor has helped build it back up but after a few hours of shoveling my rotator cup area will be sore for a few days. Two years ago I could barely climb my ladder stand to pull my self up it was so painful but I can do pull ups now but would be sore the next morning.

[lefty o]

as a guy who has had arthritus eat 100% of the cartilidge in both wrists, i can tell you if it hurts or is uncomfortable shoot something smaller or load it down more. i used to shoot my 44mag like most shoot their 9mm's, i havent touched it in more than 5 years, because the pain isnt worth it. i use wrist wraps, and braces depending on the day, and they help some , but arent a cure for discomfort.

[Tripplebeards]

All I can tell you after my first shooting session in years with my 29 oz...May be lighter, titanium 2.5” 44 mag snubby, after about a 100 rounds my whole body was vibrating and shaking. It was a hot day so maybe I was a little dehydrated. But after a half dozen plus sessions on the last two weeks im not shaking any more and the recoil doesn't feel harsh anymore. Kinda feels equivalent to a mild 357. Guess I got used to shooting it again. Gloves definitely help with wrist support and saving my knuckles from getting beat up. If I bare handed it I would still probably put one cylinder full and call it a day. I’m amazed at how accurate that little lightweight snubby is at longer distances. I wouldn’t be afraid to use it deer hunting at closer ranges now that I have the POA adjusted correctly.

I took my Ruger P85 with the last day and it felt like I was shooting a BB pistol.

[fatelk]

You’re a lot tougher than I am, that’s for sure. I shot two rounds through a friend’s S&W 329 years ago, and that was enough for me. It was the most brutally recoiling handgun I ever fired. A close second would be a Ruger .480 I shot a couple rounds out of once. The .500 S&W Mag didn’t seem bad at all by comparison.

I don’t have arthritis in my hands or wrists, but I do take glucosamine and turmeric for the arthritis in my toes. I still like to shoot my magnums occasionally, but more than once in a while just isn’t fun anymore. I haven’t hunted in decades, and have never hunted or competed with a handgun, so the “horsepower” of a gun was never about practicality for me.

In much the same way I never raced cars or bootlegged whiskey, but is was fun to drive a car with muscle now and then. I’m older now and pretty much over it.

[Tripplebeards]

Must be from stacking and installing AG and semi truck tires for decades. It’s starting to catch up with me. Some day When I’m old and grey I’ll just use trail boss loads in my 44’s as they won’t ever leave my side.

[LAH]

Must be from stacking and installing AG and semi truck tires for decades. It’s starting to catch up with me.

Feel that brother. I did a couple 100 truck tires in my time but nothing like that.

[Tripplebeards]

Been out of the heavies for about 5 years now. Up until the place closed I was stacking 800lb farm rears chest high and truck floats above my head twice a week when we would get our shipments...by myself.lol We had a forklift but I volunteered to do it for the exercise and stress relief.

[Wally]

I have found it beneficial to shoot my .357/.41/.44 Magnums at 1,000 FPS for my target shooting. Most magnum pistol loads shoot at 1,200~1,250 FPS; at 1,000 FPS one is at 80% of full velocity. I use a fast shotgun powder, with a small charge. Plenty of power for shooting and it is easier on my brass, pistols, & wrists. I also have found using weights and using them to do curls, will mitigate sore wrists when shooting heavier loads.

[Norske]

As a 72-year-old owner of 2 SBH revolvers, I have found a couple things that noticeably reduce recoil. The one with a red dot sight kicks less than the one with only iron sights. I once tried a friend's SBH with rubber grips, and I'll stay with smooth "spin in your hand" grips. Not only do they make less felt recoil, but it puts the hammer near my thumb for the next shot. I'm not sure that velocities much over 1000 fps provide an advantage with a wide meplat cast bullet, either. If I need speed from a cast 44 bullet, I'll use my Marlin 1894.