44/40 boolit

[txpete]

the lee 200 gr fn bullet a good one for the 44/40??.crimp groove in the right place or lyman 427666 be better?.

[BUFFALOW RED]

if you shoot BP youll want the Big Lube Bullet 200 gr

[missionary5155]

Greetings Txpete
Beforte you do anything Slug the chamber area... My 1892 44-40 NEEDS .432 + boolits to fill the chamber. Use the correct diameter for your chamber and you CAN use most any 44 boolit.
I shoot 200-260 grain and right today my favorite is a 220 Saeco that drops at .434 using near pure lead. VERY accurate with 8-10 grains Unique.
The chamber area is the key !

[Springfield]

I'm no expert but it seems to me bore diameter is more important than chamber size. If you use a .434 bullet to fill a large chamber but you happen to have a .427 barrel I would think that excessive pressure might arise. Besides, the brass is going to expand to fill the chamber on firing, especially with thin 44-40 brass. The bullet is only in the chamber while at rest. It does it's real work in the bore.

[Harry O]

In most cases, I agree with the statement about making the size of the bullet match the chamber (ie: use the largest bullet that will allow the cartridge to chamber). I have shot bullets up to 0.005" and 0.006" more than groove diameter (in guns with sloppy chambers) and they were usually MORE accurate than those that were 0.001" over groove diameter. I have given more details on my tests on other posts.

However, I did have a problem with some Ruger Vaquero 44-40's in doing this. The barrel was 0.430". The chamber did not allow anything larger than 0.427". Bad enough, but the front of the chamber was sized 0.424". Even worse. So the bullet had to squeeze down 0.003", then expand 0.006" within one bullet length. It did not work.

Two trips back to Ruger and they told me that it met their tolerances -- quit bothering them. If I wanted something different, I should see a custom gunsmith. I took their advice, but fixing it right would have cost more than the gun was worth. I decided to have him open up the front of the chambers to match the barrel only. It did shrink the groups considerably, but it will NEVER be a target gun.

I have a Marlin and my son has a Rossi in 44-40. Both of them also have oversize barrels, but they also have oversize chamber necks, so I can load 0.431" bullets. Of course, the cases come out of the guns looking straight -- no bottleneck at all. They are accurate enough, though.

My advice is to slug the barrel, the neck of the chamber, and if it is a revolver, the front of the chamber. Report back and we can probably predict if you will have accuracy problems.

[txpete]

thanks guys I wasn't clear with my question.
I'll try again..
I have been shooting my navy arms 44/40 with commerical 200 gr .428 bullets and accuracy is very good.no problems.
I was wondering if the lee 200 gr is a good bullet for the 44/40 as far as crimp groove in the right place.so has anyone tried this bullet out in their 44/40 and how did it shoot???

[9.3X62AL]

I've used the Lee 200 grainer in the past, and the crimp groove was shallow--but usable, and in the correct place for OAL to fit my Win '73. Even with 2 lube grooves, the boolit doesn't hold a lot of lube. I've gone to the SAECO #446 in the 44-40, and haven't looked back. More lube capacity, deeper crimp groove, and shoots a little better. Falls out @ .4305" in WW, .431" in 92/6/2.

[missionary5155]

The Germans used choke down barrels (Large chamber and smaller muzzle) during WW2 to launch cannon projectiles at ULTRA HIGH Velocity... Think about swaging down a cannon shell 1 inch before it left the bore.
A lead boolit is so soft compared to even jacketed bullets there is little worry. My Boolits swage down as they leave the chamber area. It is some what gradual. Think of the forcing cone on a shotgun just in front of the chamber. But if you do not seal the chamber area.. your leading and boolit stripping problems has just begun.
In my 44-40 (1892 model SRC) I use soft boolits generally. But I have used a few that were straight lintype with 10 grains Unique and I saw no smashed flat primers. Fire any boolit in my rifle bore size (.4295+) and you can count on paper plate acuracy at 50 yards... and worse. My over bore boolits will shoot 3 inches at 70 yards all day long from the 18 inch barrel.
Revolvers need the same treatment. You either fill the cylinder or you have gas blowby and bulllet base melt down.
Granted you could go overboard. But then that is why we start low and work up.

[Springfield]

Funny how different things work. You have BPCR guys saying you need to have custom made bullet moulds so that you don't need to size the bullets as too much sizing ruins accuracy. And here you have your barrel sizing the bullets .005 with no problem.

[Harry O]

Funny how different things work. You have BPCR guys saying you need to have custom made bullet moulds so that you don't need to size the bullets as too much sizing ruins accuracy. And here you have your barrel sizing the bullets .005 with no problem.

There is a difference between what bench rest shooters demand from their rifles at 200 to 600 yards and what a person can expect with an off-the-shelf lever action at 100 yards.

[Scrounger]

The Germans used choke down barrels (Large chamber and smaller muzzle) during WW2 to launch cannon projectiles at ULTRA HIGH Velocity... Think about swaging down a cannon shell 1 inch before it left the bore.
A lead boolit is so soft compared to even jacketed bullets there is little worry. My Boolits swage down as they leave the chamber area. It is some what gradual. Think of the forcing cone on a shotgun just in front of the chamber. But if you do not seal the chamber area.. your leading and boolit stripping problems has just begun.
In my 44-40 (1892 model SRC) I use soft boolits generally. But I have used a few that were straight lintype with 10 grains Unique and I saw no smashed flat primers. Fire any boolit in my rifle bore size (.4295+) and you can count on paper plate acuracy at 50 yards... and worse. My over bore boolits will shoot 3 inches at 70 yards all day long from the 18 inch barrel.
Revolvers need the same treatment. You either fill the cylinder or you have gas blowby and bulllet base melt down.
Granted you could go overboard. But then that is why we start low and work up.


I don't know about 1 inch but they did have an antitank gun that started shells out at 28 mm and squeezed them down to 20 mm at the muzzle to give the projectile a muzzle velocity near 4400 fps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.8_cm_sPzB_41
Piercing armor requires a high velocity. Many years later our own army had an armor piercing round called a "slap" round if I remember correctly. It stands for Saboted Light Armor Piercing round. It was a standard M2 .50 BMG round loaded with a saboted .30 caliber bullet made of tungston. Almost 4000fps.

[6pt-sika]

I've got a pair of the recent manufacture Marlin 1894's in 44-40 . And when they made these they used the same barrel stock that they made the 1894CB in 44 MAG from . Only difference is the chamber .

So I use the Lyman 215 grain SWC GC mold . I size to .430" and cast from WW's it works pretty well !

[August]

+1 on biglube boolits

[missionary5155]

Funny how different things work. You have BPCR guys saying you need to have custom made bullet moulds so that you don't need to size the bullets as too much sizing ruins accuracy. And here you have your barrel sizing the bullets .005 with no problem.

There is a Big difference in custom made air gauge BR barrels and mass produced lever action barrels. BR barrels are as uniform as possible , No variation.
If my 44-40 Winny barrel was .429 exact all the way down its 18 inches.. then I could use a BORE size boolit. But it just is not.
If the boolit cannot seal the gases at the base then where is all that gas going.. Down the sides of the boolit. As that gas blows past the boolit base it will erode that lead.

[Win86]

Think you mean GROOVE size rather than BORE size?

Win86