Patch lube for hunting hot weather

[megasupermagnum]

I am gearing up to hunt black bear this September, and am planning on taking the 54 caliber TC Renegade as my main rifle. I've mainly stuck to water lubes for the target range, and many things work in the winter deer hunting season. I have never hunted in hot weather like this before. Average high temps will be in the 70's, and 90 is not unheard of. I am concerned with leaving it loaded for a month and having the lube contaminate the powder. I am going with a round ball, and pillow ticking patch for this. I've got a couple ideas. The first is to go with something like real mink oil, which cannot separate like beeswax/oil. The other is using an over powder wad. I've never bothered to try a wad with a PRB, but it seems like it may provide a decent barrier for the powder. Another question I've had, is has anyone tried an unlubed patch? I'm only going to take one shot, I don't care about the fouling.

[Tom W.]

Plain old Crisco will do just fine.

[Edward]

Definitely go with a wad ,if you shoot good now the wad will do better . Bear oil soaked patch with felt works in all my guns /Ed

[rfd]

why would you leave a trad muzzleloader loaded for a month, or left loaded at all?

[bedbugbilly]

I'll echo red . . . but I guess if you leave it loaded that long that's up to you . . . .

Kind of reminds me of when I was down on the "line" at Friendship years ago getting ready to shoot a relay. A kid came along with a TC Hawken and took the position next to me. The RO finally gave the sign to snap caps and I placed one on the nipple of the rifle I had and pointed the muzzle down to make sure the nipple was clear . . . so did the kid next to me. Well, he snapped his cap alright. . . and along with it was a terrific"boom". The RO was there like a shot but I had already started to chew the kid out as I was beyond ticked off. He'd been carrying his Hawken around loaded . . .. since the previous deer season. He sheepishly said, "I guess I forgot to unload after I deer hunted with it". And folks wonder why "accidents" happen.

Warm conditions - what about humidity on top of it? Maybe it's just me but if I was hunting bear, I think i would want to know that the load in my single shot rifle was "fresh" and ready to go each time I went out. I have hunted bear in the UP of Michigan and the last thing I would want is to get in to a situation where the bear was upset, pull my rifle up and when I pulled the trigger, only hear the sound of the cap snap.

As far as patch lube, consider using Dutch Shultz's method of using a water soluble oil, soak your patching material in the solution and let it dry - it won't contaminate the powder.

[megasupermagnum]

why would you leave a trad muzzleloader loaded for a month, or left loaded at all?

It doesn't have to be a full month, but I certainly am not going to shoot and clean my rifle every single day.

I would use bear grease if I had it. Crisco doesn't dry out over time, or leak oil? I've used it before, but it never seemed as good as TC bore butter. Both seem to get very runny at 80, and rock hard at 50. If I go with a grease, I'm thinking tallow may be better. I've got two easy options there, mink oil from TOTW or lamb (sheep) tallow from Dixie. Ideally I'll be using bear grease in the future.

The dry patch method seems interesting I might have to look into that.

[rfd]

i would NEVER leave a muzzleloader charged unless i was in hunt camp, and even then the gun would get muzzle flagged and it would be an overnight/day event. "withdrawing a load" at camp was also a military must back in the 18th century. they learned that lesson the hard way, and too many times.

[LAGS]

I heard that " Wild Bill " use to Empty and Re- Load his revolver Every Morning to avoid the powder being effected by moisture.
I am not sure this would apply to a ML rifle because of the different loading down the barrel.
But Safety wise, I never leave my rifle loaded overnight.

[megasupermagnum]

I heard that " Wild Bill " use to Empty and Re- Load his revolver Every Morning to avoid the powder being effected by moisture.
I am not sure this would apply to a ML rifle because of the different loading down the barrel.
But Safety wise, I never leave my rifle loaded overnight.

Safety wise? I've got one guy telling me I'm going to be mauled by a bear if I don't shoot, clean, and reload my gun every single time I carry it twice a day. I've got another guy telling me I'm no different than the fool who doesn't check if his gun is charged before firing a cap. Now I've got another telling me leaving my rifle charged overnight is a safety hazard?

Do any of you actually hunt? That's not a put down, I want to know if this is field experience, or gut reactions. I've got years of cold weather hunting, and have left rifles charged the full 5 week season if I didn't get a shot. Zero issues. I clean my rifles, not just run some water through them. On day one I run a couple dry patches, load, and put tape over the muzzle. I use a new primer or cap each time. I store them with tape over the nipple. Last year I had three loaded, one inline, one sidelock rifle, and one inline-ish pistol, a TC scout pistol. I never took a shot, all three hit bullseye at the end of the year. Same as every year, or a dead deer.


Thank you FrontierMuzzleloading, that is exactly what I'm looking for.

[rfd]

it's a wonderful world of personal opinions ...

a longtime charged muzzleloader will almost always not be an issue for firing and being as accurate as it always was the day or month or years it was last ignited. they all go bang unless the tube wasn't properly charged or something unusual occurred.

the issue i have with leaving a loaded muzzleloader unattended and away from the range or the hunt is adding in the human error factor (and not necessarily that of the weapon's owner). doesn't matter at all where it's stored, none should be considered safe, not even when in a safe.

unless one requires a muzzleloader for some form of defense, there is no valid reason to leave it loaded, not even for the piddling cost of the powder and ball. far better to be safe than sorry.

perhaps the reason for not pulling a load is that one doesn't know how to remove a patched ball, even a tight one, without discharging the gun. just as learning how to load, shoot and maintain a muzzleloader, one needs to get educated in the practice of removing the charge. it's just part of owning, shooting and maintaining these kinda firearms.

[megasupermagnum]

I know a couple ways to empty them. Besides shooting, I've tried a ball puller, compressed air gun, a CO2 kit, even pull the breech plug on an inline. The CO2 kit is kind of neat, but just plain seems wrong. That and it's more weight, or one more thing to forget. The ball puller is no fun, and I don't trust I get all the powder out that way. I keep one for an emergency. Even the inline, you unscrew the breech plug, and ram the bullet out. It sounds good until you spend 20 minutes trying to get the powder you dumped out of the threads and action because I'm anything but nimble.

Shooting and cleaning is the only way I do it now. It's better than anything else I tried, I can have the rifle empty and clean in 5 minutes if I have water nearby. Still, what a PITA at the end of a 14 hour day on stand, then an extra 5 minutes in the morning to load in the dark, sleep deprived, usually hungry. Cost has nothing to do with it. There's nothing wrong with loading every day, but it is not necessary. Turkey hunting is a short season by comparison, but I've used nothing but my TK2000 for the past 6 years or so. Same thing, load on day one. This year I hunted two days of non-stop rain, and shot a tom the third afternoon.

I've tried loading every single morning in the past, so I'm not ignorant of the practice. I never had a problem, but I found there was concern of mistakes in loading early morning in the dark. I remember a couple times almost forgetting powder, forgetting an overshot wad on the shotgun. I'll admit, leaving one for 5 weeks is a bit much, I only do that when I can rotate them, and the weather is reasonably consistent. In the September heat, I might even be willing to clean between trips. I will not go back to doing it every single day.

Maybe it seems so bizarre to me because my firearms are always loaded and treated as such, they always were growing up. I carry a loaded revolver on my hip every day, all my handguns are stored loaded too. I sleep at home next to a loaded shotgun, and camp with a loaded handgun either above me in the hammock, or next to me in the truck, or a shotgun, sometimes both. My muzzleloaders are stored empty, and I do have rifles and shotguns in the safe empty, but they are in another room.

Yes, all opinion.


Anyway, I think I am going to try the lube FrontierMuzzleloading has, and also try shooting with an over powder wad for extra insurance. That should do the trick.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

a felt wad IMO is a great thing to use. #1 it adds extra protection to your patch and allows you to shoot a little more powder without fear of blowing out patches. Felt is naturally flame retardant, so lubing them isn't really required unless its for a BP revolver and you want some added protection to prevent chain fires.

In Colorado and New Mexico we hunt 8 to 9 days and believe me, in September, we get our days where you are wishing you had what it took to strip down to just your boots and undies while hunting, due to the heat.

I personally don't pull loads. The evening before the hunt, all rifles are loaded up, an ear bud placed over the nipple to help keep moisture out, and into the gun cases they go.

[Tom W.]

I have hunted fo many years with a T/C Hawken. I started by reading a lot of Muzzleloader magazines from the NMLRA. I've used a lot of precut patches and never did warm up to them. I found that pocket drill was a whole lot better, at least in my rifle. I used patches deep fried in Crisco without any issues.
However........
Butler Creek made a wonderful thing called Poly Patches. If you can find some of those you'll be pleasantly surprised. I don't know if they are still available or not. But you could load up for however long you wanted to and your powder would stay dry, as the patch was not lubed in any way, unless you really wanted to.

[megasupermagnum]

I've got a few things I can use for a wad. I've got 28 gauge wads, which works great in 54 caliber, 1/8" felt, the real wool stuff, not the imitation. I've also got 28 gauge thin nitro cards, I want to say .070" thick. I also have some overshot cards, and other 54 caliber specific wads. I've never tried any with a PRB, so this will be interesting.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

minuteman products still sells the poly patch material.

[Tom W.]

I don think that's the same stuff. These were little over powder wads that were cupped at one end to hold the ball as it was seated. The early models had a cup at both ends, and I sometimes filled the bottom cup with SpitPatch and just put a spot to help hold my ball in the top cup.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

oh okay that one. Its more of a sabot type for the round ball.

[megasupermagnum]

I've got some plastic wads you guys might be talking about for 50 caliber, basically double ended cups. Never tried them. I would rather stick to more natural products.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

https://i.etsystatic.com/6280700/r/il/fe5b2f/818051845/il_794xN.818051845_resp.jpg

[megasupermagnum]

That is exactly what I have, Butler Creek brand and all. It does beg the question, what is the point of patch lube at all if those work? I've never tried an un-lubed patch.

[Tom W.]

The lube I stuck in the bottom was mostly to help keep the fouling soft as I did a lot of target shooting and didn't want to be cleaning my barrel every three or so shots. For weekend hunting if I didn't have to shoot I knew that the powder wasn't going to be fouled by lubricant, and I could leave the rifle loaded for the next day. Sunday evening I would discharge the rifle and clean with extremely hot water with Ivory soap. I didn't have anyone to teach me how to do it, no internet back then, just studying the muzzleloader magazines and trial and error. I still have my TC rifle, although I haven't fired it in a coon's age. It's in the safe at my son's house right now.

[megasupermagnum]

It turns out an over powder wad does wonders for a round ball load, I never would have thought to try it. Using a 1/8" 28 gauge real wool felt wad under a patched round ball and pillow ticking. Before my best load was 60 grains of FF powder and it shot about 3" at 50 yards. That same load shoots about 2" now with a felt wad, however, the cool thing is 90 grains now shoots just as well. Without a wad, my patches start to get a hole in the center around 70 grains at least with washer fluid for lube, about 90 with a grease, which is a story for another day. I even shot a couple at 120 grains, and wouldn't you know, the patch was in great condition.

Another lesson learned, measure your round balls. I've been swapping back and forth between .530" and .535" molds. Somewhere along the line I cast with 20-1 alloy, which is a good thing. The problem is my .535" balls are actually measuring .537", and are a bear to load without a mallet. The .530" mold is casting .533", which assuming they shoot just as well, is what I'm going to standardize on.

[Boerrancher]

First off my advice is stay away from the plastic wads. They are good for one or two shots and then you end up with one stuck halfway while trying to load it. The fouling becomes too hard to push them past. Lastly accuracy just plain sucks compared to a properly lubed patch.

I hunt with muzzle loaders all the time. My favorite squirrel rifle is a 32 cal cap lock, wish it was a flinter but oh well it is what it is. My first patch is always a bear grease patch with any of my round ball shooters. If I don’t shoot it I pull the cap off and flag it as loaded by leaving the rod in the bore, and use it again the next day. If I do shoot it it is spit patches the rest of the day until I can clean it in the creek or whenever good water source I have.

My flint locks I never leave loaded. Many people will tell you if the pan is empty it is unloaded. NOT TRUE. A well tuned flintlock will fire 10-15% of the time with an empty pan. It doesn’t take a lot of time to clean one anyway so I fire them and clean them every night.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't know much about flintlocks, and have never owned one. I've heard a lot of guys stick a tooth pick in the flash hole. I would think that would be fairly safe if the cover, sorry frizzen, was kept up. For that matter, can't you just take the flint out, or is that asking for trouble the next day?

[Boerrancher]

I don't know much about flintlocks, and have never owned one. I've heard a lot of guys stick a tooth pick in the flash hole. I would think that would be fairly safe if the cover, sorry frizzen, was kept up. For that matter, can't you just take the flint out, or is that asking for trouble the next day?

I don’t like to take the flint out until It is cleaning time, or replacement time. The reason being, you have to dry fire it to make sure you have the alignment correct, and considering it will go bang at least 1 in ten pulls of the trigger with a dry pan and loaded chamber, I don’t want to risk it. I also don’t want a monster buck to walk out 20 yds from me and when I pull the trigger it goes click, because I didn’t get it aligned right.

[rfd]

flint always stays in until it needs replacing or the lock is being cleaned.

with a loaded tube - hammer down on the pan, hammer steel (frizzen) flipped open, toothpick or quill in the touch hole, leather boot on the hammer steel. that's how you safe a loaded flint lock.

[Boerrancher]

flint always stays in until it needs replacing or the lock is being cleaned.

with a loaded tube - hammer down on the pan, hammer steel (frizzen) flipped open, toothpick or quill in the touch hole, leather boot on the hammer steel. that's how you safe a loaded flint lock.

Thank you for posting this. I knew it but never practiced it because for a long time I had small children and it was easier to just shoot the thing and clean it before returning it to the rack, instead of having to wonder was one of my 5 small children going to see the quill or boot on the frizzen and try to climb up there to see what is new about the untouchables. I took this precaution for so long, it became habit. Now that the kids are all grown and moved on, I may revisit this technique, come deer season.