Moose with a 20G sabot?

[Ithaca]

Newbie here... first post.

I'm a middle aged hunter in shotgun-only deer country. I sold my rifled H&R 12G last season because I convinced myself that a 20G sabot is just fine for deer. Bought a TC ProHunter (very happy so far). Then, I pulled a moose tag for Maine this Fall!!!

Is a 3" sabot 20G enough for a moose out to 100yds? This is the north Maine Woods, not Montana with long shots.

I could invest in a rifle barrel for the TC, but the hunt will be stretching my wallet a bit as it is. I don't want to make compromising shot on a moose though...

Thoughts?

Thanks!!!

[richhodg66]

I'm sure it would, but I think I would find a rifle somewhere if this was a limited opportunity to hunt a moose.

[BMW Rider]

Having had the privilege to shoot a couple of beautiful moose in northern Maine (both over 800#/48" spread), you will never predict the range. Never assume it will be close, there are plenty of opportunities for long (>300 yards) shots everywhere in the north Maine woods. It's a once in a lifetime hunt, so why be foolish mess around to limit yourself to under a hundred yards, get a rifle capable of doing the job at 0-600 yards and be comfortable with it. You owe this too the animal(s) you are planing to harvest; invest in a capable firearm. It will be less than the price to fly to your once in a lifetime hunt, IMHO.

[merlin101]

Monies tight, we can all understand that, I bet if you ask around somebody you know has a rifle they'll loan out.

[tinhorn97062]

20ga slug in the boiler room will get it done. Go hunt and post back with your kill.

[NyFirefighter357]

Being in a shotgun only area I have rifled shotguns and understand there performance. I've uses both 12ga & 20ga. The SST Shotgun Slug delivers accuracy and you'll achieve sub-2" groups at 100 yards. 20 GA 250 gr FTX® delivers an impressive 1200 ft/lbs of energy at 100yrds. . With a 150yrd zero you have about 1300FPS with about 980 FTLB of energy in a ballistic tip 45cal pistol round at that range.

The Remington Premier AccuTip 20 Gauge 3" 260-Grain Bonded Sabot Slugs are 58cal with a MV of 1900fps with 95% weight retention. They have a listed 100yrd FTLB of 1193.

With all that said, researching moose hunting the "rule" is at least 1500FTLB of energy at the target. This extremely limits your shots to under 100yrds.

Yes it can be done but your limiting yourself a lot for a "once in a lifetime hunt"

I find my buddies 300win mag has less recoil than my 12ga rifled bolt action Marlin Slug master. Ask around somebody you know has a rifle they may be willing to let you use.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/moose_cartridges.htm

[Petander]

I've hunted moose for 25 years now. Shot about ten myself but our club gets 8-12 every year.

I've also tested 20 & 12 slugs quite a lot,cast and others. Accuracy,chrono,penetration... I would not use any shotgun for any moose hunt, there are proper expanding jacketed bullets and accurate rifles for them.

When the moose is approaching,you don't want to worry about your equipment or skills. I've tracked a few, usually shot bad because of lack of confidence. Tracking can take days with lots of people and dogs involved. You don't want that.

My choices have been 45-70 & 300 WM mostly. Never wounded one myself,knock,knock...

[Ithaca]

Well, there seems to be some consensus about sticking with a rifle. It's not surprising, and as some said, this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity... so why limit myself. I appreciate the advice! I'll start asking around or looking for a used TC barrel in .270 or 30-06 and see what I can come up with.

[psweigle]

A 20 gauge slug will do the job just fine within 100 yards.
The calibers you mention are a much better option. It's a once in a lifetime hunt, so I would search to borrow a rifle and get lots of practice with it.

[Tripplebeards]

30-06 with 180 grain core locts will accurately shoot through a moose as far as you can see.

I’ve used 3” Remington accutips out of my savage 220. Bang, flop on white tails.

[kycrawler]

Pawn shops around here you can buy used Savage axis for $175 put some decent rings and glass on it and go hunt. New axis or rem 770 with a cheap scope are $250 ish at Walmart here new rem 700 adl with cheap scope are $379

[Petander]

30-06 with 180 grain core locts will accurately shoot through a moose as far as you can see.



Yep and much less to worry about trajectory / leade at normal ranges.

[Petander]

I’ve used 3” Remington accutips out of my savage 220. Bang, flop on white tails.

Hornady 350 FN @ 2150 here. 45-70.

244904

[Hardcast416taylor]

I have loaned rifles of the .30-06 kind and a few of the magnum kind to friends that pulled a Michigan elk permit to use. Ask a friend or 2 about using a rifle they have with some ammo. Later on you can repay the favor however you decide on.Robert

[dk17hmr]

Being an encore I'd personally just pick up a rifle barrel of in something that will shoot a 180gr bullet in the 2800fps+ range.

No reason a 20 gauge wouldnt work just fine though. Ballistics are on par with 50 caliber muzzleloader.

[fatnhappy]

It ain't a love tap. This area of NY used to be shotgun only, my county still is as a matter of fact.

I can't imagine it would be hard to borrow a 06 or .308 though.

[quilbilly]

As dk17 just said, Balistics are on a par with a 50 cal PRB. Our forefathers seemed to manage just fine with 50 cal PRB's and the 20 ga saboted bullet makes a bigger hole. Go forth and get your moose. Just keep the shot under 125 yards and put that big slug in the right place by taking your time with tat one shot.

[Geezer in NH]

No offence but I killed my Bull in Maine with a 54 flintlock. Have a video of stem blowing out both sides of the chest just before he collapsed. Range 35 yards. If 75-100 would have been same results.

In NH my state shot a 700 plus pound cow (SHE WAS CALLED 8 YEARS OLD BY BIOLOGIST) Again 54 round ball flintlock watched the ball skip off the pond/swamp water behind her. She went 10 yards into 8-12 feet of water died and floated nose only. That water was cold that week in October.

Shoot the moose in the lungs it will die. The guide in ME did not like my flintlock but learned a lot from it.

[Tripplebeards]

I’ve seen Ruger Americans on sale for as little as $279

BTW...I want to go!!!

[MT Gianni]

Encore barrels are really cheap in 7 Remington and 300 Winchester magnum. Few want to shoot them just for recreation. Load them down to a little over 30-06 velocities and you save $100 on the bbl.

[Tripplebeards]

Encore barrels are really cheap in 7 Remington and 300 Winchester magnum. Few want to shoot them just for recreation. Load them down to a little over 30-06 velocities and you save $100 on the bbl.

Good idea but the problem that I alway run into is the the twist dose not match the slower velocities and accuracy always ends up suffering imo.

[richhodg66]

Almost every gun enthusiast has an extra .30-06 or similar sitting around. If I were your neighbor, I'd loan you one for as long as you needed it to get ready and have a successful hunt. Surely someone you know close would do the same and with a .30-06 or bigger, it would remove any doubt about capability of the weapon.

[Petander]

I couldn't afford to practise enough with factory shotgun sabots.

[megasupermagnum]

Inside of 100 yards, I would have no problem using a 20 gauge slug on a moose. I won't get into the whole conundrum of the "what if" shot. Nobody can predict the future, but I don't see 100 yards as being much of a handicap. Provided they shoot good, I would actually lean towards the Federal 3" truball as the ammo for big game in 20 gauge. I would shy away from the Federal trophy copper. I've only seen them used in 12 gauge, but results are less than stellar, no expansion. They did kill the deer, though the pinhole entrance and exits were not impressive. I wouldn't limit yourself to only 3" hulls either, as 2 3/4" can shoot just as well. The Hornady SST would be a good choice, and do not overlook the Federal Power Shok sabot slug. The latter of those two would actually be a very good option. The 1450 fps muzzle velocity doesn't impress most people, but remember it is a 382 grain chunk of lead. Expansion is mild, and they penetrate well. Even if they don't expand, they have a nice flat point to them.

I never gave them much thought, but Lightfield has some boomers as well that penetrate well.

[dk17hmr]

Most 300 win mag barrels for the encore are 1:10.....my bolt action 26" 308 has a 1:10 twist and shoots 178gr at 2775fps very well. It's probably not a twist rate issue.

[richhodg66]

This would be the perfect excuse to buy another rifle. I would be hearing a .35 Whelen calling my name.

[CLAYPOOL]

ITHACA Are you near Central Southern Illinois. I be-leave you sometimes just HAVE To trust people. If you are near....I have some guns. They are scratched, used, work great,....Let me know...I will never get to go other wise....30-06 and beyond...............

[markX]

Ithaca, Where are you located?

[John McCorkle]

Hey OP, we'll have to work out the logistics for shipping but I have a rem700 ADL in '06 in my safe you are welcome to borrow...I live in Texas and have no idea how to loan out a rifle or do the shipping but I'd love to know my rifle has taken a moose too!

Just promise to send it back and everyone here is my witness and I'll get on finding out how to send it to you

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[Petander]

This thread is going to a true hunter's direction.

Great.

[Discus420]

The projectile itself is a hollow point lead-free slug called Raptor. The manufacturer has been experimenting with different weights, but right now only 239 grain projectiles are available with a muzzle velocity of 2150 fps. The pack of ten rounds has a price of $45.

244993

[Shawlerbrook]

It will work, but you drew a once or twice in a lifetime tag, so I would beg, borrow or steal a rifle. My dad shot his Maine moose at 175 yards in 2013 with a 35 Whelen.

[tinhorn97062]

Keep in mind folks, that long before all the magnums and various bottleneck cartridges, it was a round ball over a dose of black powder that got the job done. Nobody seemed to starve back then. Fast forward, the .45 cal rifles and .50 cal rifles were dropping every animal in sight...while moving at a pretty sedate speed.

OP’s 20ga with a slug will certainly get the job done at any kind of a reasonable and shootable distance. Sure, a .338 Mag would be great to have- but OP has a 20ga shotgun. Which again, is more than sufficient to take care of what he’s got on his plate.

[Petander]

Keep in mind folks, that long before all the magnums and various bottleneck cartridges, it was a round ball over a dose of black powder that got the job done. Nobody seemed to starve back then.

And before that there were spears,even better! :)

[missionary5155]

Good morning
The spears were used by "group hunters" who also ""pushed and herded" animals over cliffs or into blind canyons to be dispatched.

I would not hesitate to use a .60 - .62 round ball from a rifled barrel. I may have to slink around a bit and close the distance to be in my personal "sure shot" distance but hey a once in a life time hunt is for the hunt not the slaughter.
Mike in Peru

[Petander]

Here in Finland we have this moving target shooting test,a natural size moose target is going trotting speed @ 100 meters. It is going over a 45 meter distance in five seconds. It was compulsory for decades for every moose hunter to get three hits in three passes for both moving and standing target. The test is a bit different now but we practise the old way a lot. Otherwise people won't get the leade.

To hit the lungs "10" with a 308 you have to aim at the beard.

Hitting killing zone with a shotgun slug is something that's out of most folks ability,your leade is almost double and there's nothing to aim at except background.

It should be a hunt,not a stunt.

[richhodg66]

"It should be a hunt,not a stunt."

Not that it would be a stunt, exactly, but this holds true. If it was white tail deer, which I will get lots of chances at every year for the rest of my life, no problem, but this is a once in a lifetime.

By the way, the "the old timers used so and so" argument is bravo sierra. They did it because that was what they had, they didn't have the constraints of having seasons, bag limits, tag draws, etc., and if there was a way to check, I bet a LOT of wounded game didn't get recovered in the day.

Find a rifle, enough said. Doesn't take a particularly expensive or elaborate one, a bolt action .30-06 (which practically everybody has) will do it.

[Shawlerbrook]

What he ^^^^ said !

[megasupermagnum]

"It should be a hunt,not a stunt."

Not that it would be a stunt, exactly, but this holds true. If it was white tail deer, which I will get lots of chances at every year for the rest of my life, no problem, but this is a once in a lifetime.

By the way, the "the old timers used so and so" argument is bravo sierra. They did it because that was what they had, they didn't have the constraints of having seasons, bag limits, tag draws, etc., and if there was a way to check, I bet a LOT of wounded game didn't get recovered in the day.

Find a rifle, enough said. Doesn't take a particularly expensive or elaborate one, a bolt action .30-06 (which practically everybody has) will do it.

Inside of 100 yards, a 20 gauge slug gun will stomp a 30-06. Extra range might come in handy with a rifle, but calling a slug gun a stunt is taking it too far. Tens of thousands of people still hunt with bows and arrows. Thousands hunt with handguns. Muzzleloader hunting is as popular as ever.

[Hogtamer]

I have killed 10 animals with my savage 220 in the last 2 years, 3 deer and 7 hogs but the biggest was only 150 lbs. In fact the first shot was a "twofer" passing through the hog I was shooting at a little high and hitting a small hog behind it in the throat severing the jugular. All home rolled stuff. But an 800 lb animal is in another league. I'm confident that inside of 50 yds it would be lethal. At 100 yds I can shoot it accurately but you've lost a lot of energy from a ballistically challenged projectile starting out at 1700 fps. There would certainly be no exit and a one-lunger would be a real possibility. An '06 with a 180 gr soft point would be my first choice. Borrow one well in advance of your hunt and get real familiar with it! Good luck. You're gonna need a bigger freezer!
PS: don't know anything avout store bought sabots but would be leery of them too.

[NyFirefighter357]

Inside of 100 yards, a 20 gauge slug gun will stomp a 30-06. Extra range might come in handy with a rifle, but calling a slug gun a stunt is taking it too far. Tens of thousands of people still hunt with bows and arrows. Thousands hunt with handguns. Muzzleloader hunting is as popular as ever.

Remember these aren't grand pappies slug guns. They are 260gr ballistic tipped copper jacketed rounds traveling at close to 2,000ftps from a very accurate rifled barrel. I am confident that it would do the job with proper shot placement and a reasonable distance. My biggest issue would be hitting the shoulder/leg and not getting enough penetration.

Remington Premier AccuTip Bonded Sabot Slug Ammunition:
· Power Port™ Tip delivers dramatically superior accuracy

· Spiral nose cuts and proprietary bonding technology control expansion at all ranges from 5 to 200 yards

· Over 95% weight retention – weighs more after impact than all the others start with!

· Slug jacket made from high-strength cartridge brass

2 Whitetails taken at 300yrds cleanly with 20ga Remington sabot shotgun "slugs". https://youtu.be/mD6ZBruKXGI?t=71

This is the "slug" https://i.imgur.com/sA2101Um.jpg


BTW I still vote to borrow a rifle

[Petander]

A good practise test is to put claybirds at 20-120 yards and shoot them fast in a row.

Most people find it easier with a rifle. My closest moose shot has been ten yards,30-06 Norma oryx,big hole through lungs. The moose went half a mile,full of adrenalin from being chased.

I see many favour shotguns. If it works,fine. Where I live, a shotgun won't meet the 100 m power requirements either so if you shoot a moose with a shotgun you lose your hunting rights,guns and go to jail.

[kenyerian]

http://www.hausofarms.com/SPECIALS_c_2066-2.html You are in luck. Hausofarms has several barrels in calibers suited for moose. I was in Maine for a week last fall hunting hare and we saw moose everyday . Good luck with your hunt.

[dverna]

If you cannot borrow a rifle, buy a cheap one and sell it after the hunt. You will not lose much on it.

If you have never seen a moose, they are huge.

[GooseGestapo]

I too, have a Mossberg M220. I’ve used home cast Lyman 375gr Sabot slugs, and Federal 5/8oz Sabot slugs to kill deer. It works, on 100-200lb deer. However, a 8pt buck stopped a 5/8oz Federal sabot slug from a frontal hit. I recovered the slug, expanded to nearly 1”. It’s currently sighted in with the previously pictured Remington AeroTip slugs. Real tack-driver. In December,I’ll tell you how good they work on deer.

I’ll grant that you can kill a moose with a 20ga Sabot. However, I’m nervous considering penetration on a moose being adequate.

I too vote to borrow, beg or buy a .30/06 and a box of 180 or 200gr Nosler Partition Federal Premium ammo. Sight it in for 3”high at 200yds, go hunting!!!

btw, I’ve bear and moose hunted in nearby New Brunswick, Canada. I took my .30/06...

A moose, is basically a mule, on stilts!!!
But, ohhh, so good eating!!!

[Petander]

I have a nice mauser in 308 I can sell you for 300$ that will stop a moose without worries I have a C&R FFL license so you can get it by Friday
wyates@q.com you can make payments if you like

Let's help the man get a rifle. I will donate $50 for this.

[remy3424]

Almost every gun enthusiast has an extra .30-06 or similar sitting around. If I were your neighbor, I'd loan you one for as long as you needed it to get ready and have a successful hunt. Surely someone you know close would do the same and with a .30-06 or bigger, it would remove any doubt about capability of the weapon.

What he said....not much of a profile...where are you? Fill-out the profile if it isn't a secret. You might have neighbors here! Some of us may have a few firearms that could be lent out. I have a 06 or a 338WM that I would like to say helped harvest a moose.

[NyFirefighter357]

[QUOTE=A shotgun won't meet the 100 m power requirements either so if you shoot a moose with a shotgun you lose your hunting rights,guns and go to jail.[/QUOTE]

I just did the math my 12ga rifled shotgun with Hornady SST's meets the 100m 2000 joules requirement.

If the firearm is used for shooting moose or bear, the cartridge bullet must weigh at least 9 grams, and the bullet scoring energy when measured 100 metres from the muzzle must be at least 2700 joules (E 100 > 2700 J) or, when a bullet weighs at least 10 grams, the scoring energy measured in a similar manner must be at least 2000 joules (E 100 > 2000 J).

[seetrout]

Okay now. I say drop the gimmicks. Gimmicks being all the newfangled crap (aerotip, blah, whatever, blah, made up hype, blah) that is designed to extend the range of of your shotgun on DEER sized game. The old standard 7/8 oz 20 ga slug is about 375gr @ about 1450fps and .615ish diameter. Compare that to the good old .45-70 Springfield load of 405 gr @about 1250fps (ish) That was responsible for the near extinction of the American bison.

If you can't borrow an '06 or similar (8 mauser, etc) I say the 20 ga, especially with full bore slugs, used within an appropriate range will do the job with no regrets. The rifle however will definitely extend your maximum range.

[Tripplebeards]

Here’s a camo Ruger American 30-06 for $319

https://www.cdnnsports.com/rugerr-americanr-30-06-wolf-camo.html#.XTTyd8pOmhA

[GooseGestapo]

The problem with most 20ga slugs is that they are soft pure lead and are hollow point or hollow base. There isn’t much sectional density, such as with a .45/70. I don’t have any confidence that a 20 or 12ga slug will penetrate sufficiently on all but ideal shots.

[NyFirefighter357]

The problem with most 20ga slugs is that they are soft pure lead and are hollow point or hollow base. There isn’t much sectional density, such as with a .45/70. I don’t have any confidence that a 20 or 12ga slug will penetrate sufficiently on all but ideal shots.

These are not slugs they are essentially pistol or rifle bullets. My Hornady SST's sabot rounds use the 500 S&W Magnum 300 gr FTX bullets at a velocity of 2,000fps.

[megasupermagnum]

These are not slugs they are essentially pistol or rifle bullets. My Hornady SST's sabot rounds use the 500 S&W Magnum 300 gr FTX bullets at a velocity of 2,000fps.

Exactly. This wouldn't even be a thread if someone was going to go out hunting with a big Smith and Wesson X frame.

[Hamish]

Exactly. This wouldn't even be a thread if someone was going to go out hunting with a big Smith and Wesson X frame.

BINGO!

A lot of folks are unaware of the advances in slug offerings twenty five years or so.

[fatnhappy]

Exactly. This wouldn't even be a thread if someone was going to go out hunting with a big Smith and Wesson X frame.

got that right

[BMW Rider]

Newbie here... first post.

I pulled a moose tag for Maine this Fall!!!



Not sure which season you got picked for but if it is for second season, good luck tomorrow! Let us know how it went.

[Dthunter]

hope your hunt is everything you hope for! Good luck and straight shooting no matter your choice!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

ONCE IN A LIFETIME is the operative phrase. A 35 Whelan or 300 Win Mag barrel would be my choice if I was running a Contender/Encore. I would try to borrow an 06 or 308 at the lower end. Shooting a bunch of deer doesn't make a moose or elk rifle. Shoot what will work when things are not PERFECT, if every hunting scenario was 'PERFECT' we could all use 22's. I've shot about 20 elk, 1 moose, all but 1 cow elk were killed with the first shot, but several were shot multiple times because they DID NOT fall down when hit. Shoot straight and KEEP SHOOTING until the animal falls or is out of sight. Moose or elk can go a long ways after they have been killed.

[CITYREPO61]

I am another one that runs a Savage 220.
I would have no problems using the 220 for deer but would not consider it adequate for mouse. As others have said buy or borrow a rifle. I also wouldn't use a single shot. I'd want to put as many rounds into the Moose as fast as possible to put it down.
Good luck and please let us know what you decided on and how the hunt went.

[mart]

Lots of advice from a lot of folks. Some of whom have seen a moose.

People here would be swooning if you were making this hunt with a handgun or a longbow or a 54 or 58 caliber muzzleloader. With the exception of the longbow the rest are on an even keel with a 20 gauge slug load. A little more, a little less powerful but right in the same ball bark.

I and my family have killed several moose and I've been a party to several more outside my family. In our family they have been with a 45-70, 400 Whelen, 308 Win, 35 Whelen, and 8x56 Mannlicher Schoenauer (essentially a bolt action 30-30). I've seen them killed with a 243, 30-30, 30-06, 375 H&H, 54 caliber ML roundball, 41 magnum, 44 magnum, 500 Linebaugh, 45 Colt, 348 Win, 35 Remington, 12 gauge slug, 45 cal Minnie ball and 38-55. I keep a 62 caliber caplock around should I get drawn for a coveted muzzleloader bull tag on a nearby military base. It will be with a round ball. Essentially a 20 gauge slug.

Moose are not particularly hard to kill. They often stay on their feet a little while even with a perfect heart/lung shot. With the exception of one cow moose, all in our family have been a one shot kill. The one cow was hit a little high in the spine ridge by a nervous new hunter. The moose stood for a second shot which was delivered perfectly and the cow was on the ground within seconds from a lung shot.

The moose kills I've been a party to have not moved much at all after the shot. I've never seen one run off after a solid heart/lung shot. They all have milled around for a few seconds then fell over.

I wrote all this to say your 20 gauge will work fine. Keep your shots under 100 yards, not hard with moose, and be prepared for a follow up shot. You don't need a mini gun or even a belt fed rifle. Hit them in the heart/lung region and adjust your second shot for a high shoulder. If they are hurting from the heart/lung shot and still on their feet, the high shoulder follow up usually puts them on the ground for good.

Best of luck on your hunt.

[Ramjet-SS]

20 gauge will do the job no need to borrow a rifle I would not be comfortable using some else’s equipment if I was not family. I think it’s funny people are under selling the 20 gauge slug or sabot. A good rifles shotgun barrel is an effective gun for all big game.

[Maineboy]

I wonder how the OP made out? He has only two posts, both in this thread, dated July 7th and 8th so I don't know if we will hear from him again. I live in pretty good moose country and can tell you the moose population in Northern Maine is down. I hope he was successful.

[Ramjet-SS]

What’s the story on the moose. Are deer are down because the Liberals are protecting the wolf and they are decimating the herd along with two rough winters.

[fastdadio]

What’s the story on the moose. Are deer are down because the Liberals are protecting the wolf and they are decimating the herd along with two rough winters.

S.S.S. [smilie=1:

[Maineboy]

What’s the story on the moose. Are deer are down because the Liberals are protecting the wolf and they are decimating the herd along with two rough winters.

No wolves here, coyotes though but they prey on deer in the winter. My guess is the winter tick combined with those two rough winters is the big culprit and maybe overhunting. We certainly do not see as many moose around here as we did in years past. The moose hunt is a big money maker for the state so I sense some reluctance to drop the number of permits it issues. I think they need to do something and a good start would be to stop issuing antlerless permits.

[Geezer in NH]

Lack of logging also so no more big cuts don't help the moose either. Bigger reason next door in NH than ticks IMHO Don't believe the F&G TV guys