.31 Uberti baby dragoon problems

[Ragnarok]

I bought a cool little Cimarron/Uberti baby dragoon .31 new a while back. Seems to have a bit of an issue in that with nearly every shot the cap gets blasted under the hammer....meaning that the shot will lift the hammer and the remnants of the cap ends up under the hammer in the frame groove.

I shot 5 shots the other day and every shot the hammer ended up setting on a spent cap in the frame groove....this with 10gr 3f and a round ball. It seems that either the nipples have too big a flash-hole or the hammer spring is weak. The little revolver seems to work perfectly otherwise.

I've tried various powder charges of Triple 7...2ff and 3FFF...several different types of caps(#10 and #11) and this is a reoccurring issue. I suppose I could reduce the powder charge further and see what happens...but really 10gr leaves a lot of room in the chambers and seemed to work no better(possibly worse) than 12 or more grains of powder.

I need some ideas as to just why the little revolver does this...to me it seems the nipple holes are too large...but I could see a weak hammer spring causing the same issue. Anybody with a .31 Colt clone experience these sort of issues?.....Any ideas of what to try next?

Thanx Rag

I have a couple other Uberti revolvers a .36 Navy and a.44 Dragoon and have far fewer issues with these revolvers.

[pietro]

I bought a cool little Cimarron/Uberti baby dragoon .31 new a while back.

Seems to have a bit of an issue in that with nearly every shot the cap gets blasted under the hammer....meaning that the shot will lift the hammer and the remnants of the cap ends up under the hammer in the frame groove.


I need some ideas as to just why the little revolver does this...to me it seems the nipple holes are too large...but I could see a weak hammer spring causing the same issue.

Any ideas of what to try next?

Thanx Rag





FWIW, it will help to avoid that issue if the revolver is allowed to roll back in recoil for each shot - E-Z-Peazy with a SA revolver..

If the cap issue is from a loose cap fit, the usual solution is to install Treso nipples; as they are of a much higher quality and uniform in size than the stock nipples.

Caps blowing off generally means the hammer spring is too weak - a lot of the new Ubertis seem to be using the same spring as their single actions.



When the charge fires, the hammer acts as a seal at the back of the chamber to keep gas from blowing rearward.

If the hammer spring is too light, the gas pushes the cap and hammer back a little and you get cap fragments in the action.



However, there are several gunsmiths who (if you can't do it yourself) will install a "cap guard" in the hammer channel to preclude spent caps from falling down in front of the hammer.

The guard installation involves drilling and installing a very small roll pin in the hammer channel for the cap guard.

Then, a recess in the hammer face to straddle the pin needs to be cut.

The work can be done with a drill press and Dremel.

Cutting the slot in the hammer will be the hardest part.




One of the gunsmiths offering this service is Mike Brackett of Marietta, GA - who does business as Goon Gun Works.





Alternately, if you just weld ,or epoxy, the slot in the face of the hammer you can avoid the caps falling back into the action.

That coupled with proper weight hammer springs and either Tresco or SliX nipples, should do the job.


.

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks for the mention Pietro !!

A cap post will limit how far a fired cap can back away from the nipple and is almost 100% at keeping fragments from falling into the action by way of the hammer slot. The post also allows for a more "cartridge like" mainspring force rather than a much too heavy C.&B. spring. An addition that I came up with is the "action shield" which will not only keep any fragments that get past the cap post, but will keep most of the fouling that shoots down the hammer slot (under the hammer) out of the action. All S.A.'s have open access to the action when the hammer is not at rest. The action shield closes the access off and actually keeps presenting any fragments that land on it so the shooter can simply turn the revolver over and dump the frags.

Mike

[stubshaft]

I usually change all of my nipples to "SliXshot" nipples. I do not work for them, but since changing all of my revolvers over it has saved me many a headache.

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.45 dragoon can you show us an example of the action shield? I made one for one of my guns by sticking a small piece of sheet brass on the bottom of the hammers body so that when the hammers cocked back the sheet brass blocks the entrance from any caps and fouling getting into the guns inner workings. So far its working but i dont think it will last due to not permanently sticking the brass onto the hammer.

[bedbugbilly]

I like Uberti's and own a number of them - but I have always changed out their factory nipples for something better. The small .31 are nice little revolvers - but I have always found them to be more "finicky" for want of a better word. I have owned many '51s over the years - y current one is a Uberti. I quickly changed the nipples. One thing I have noticed over the years - doesn't make any difference if Pietta, Uberti, ASM or other - the stock nipples often have been inconsistent as far as flash hole and cap fit - some worse than others and some just fine. The '49 Baby Dragoon I have now is an older one produced in the '60s - overall it's a decent little revolver but I haven't shot it yet. I need to do a little work on it but the first thing I noticed when I pulled the cylinder and tried the cap fit was how inconsistent the fit was and the variation in the flash hole is easily seen with the naked eye - I'm switching out the nipples before i even shoot it.

I looked at a new Uberti '49 a year ago in a gun shop and the first thing I noticed was it seemed like the mainspring was not stiff enough. I don't know if it was just the individual revolver I was looking at or if most are like that? It's probably going to be a process of elimination for you but please keep us posted - I'd be curious as to what you end up with as I'm considering a Ubertiat some point if the old vintage '49 I picked up doesn't pan out as far as being reliable.

[45 Dragoon]

Outlaw Kid, I'll try but usually my pics are too "large" to post on most forums. You can see them if you look at my Instagram page though. You don't have to have the app, you can Google Instagram and search for goonsgunworks.

It sounds like you have the right idea. Mine are attached and have a turned up lip at the end. The lip keeps presenting the debris so that it can be tossed. I put them on cartridge S.A.'s (minus the lip) just to keep it "sanitary" in the frame. Does the job very well.

Mike

[Ragnarok]

I dug out an old battered un-branded Italian brass frame .44 Navy that I've used a part or two off of. Not much of a gun. Still had the hammer spring. The parts gun spring was noticeably heavier gauge steel than the Uberti Baby Dragoon spring. I had to shorten it a small bit on the screw hole end and about a 1/4" on the hammer roller end. I even carefully Dremeled a bit of a hammer roller groove as both the Uberti spring and the parts spring had roller grooves.

The thicker/wider hammer spring was fairly easy to fit and works fine...lot more pressure on the cap/nipple. The cool little revolver is a bit tougher to cock but not too bad. The Uberti spring is a lot lighter tension then the replacement.

And the heavier spring helped!! Big improvement in that the caps were not just completely destroyed and crammed into the hammer channel with each shot. Before the hammer could/would end up blasted back far enough that the cylinder would rotate slightly and the hammer resting either on a spent cap or the edge of the cylinder cap recess. This more or less locking up the little revolver.

With the stouter spring the caps come out in better shape and pretty much fall clear for the next shot. This little gun now working more or less like I'm used to with percussion revolvers. I can actually shoot it without fiddling around with it!!

I still think there is room for improvement as some caps still got under the hammer. however these were not locking the gun near every shot and fall out without having to dig them from the works with a screwdriver. Huge improvement and some good advice here...Thanks

[indian joe]

Hands up who went to Mikes (Goons Gunworks) instagram site and managed to drag themselves away in under half an hour ? so much droolworthy stuff there I couldnt do it. The pictures are just amazing.

[45 Dragoon]

Indian Joe,
Thanks much for the kind words and also taking a look at my Instagram feed! You can see most of my upgrades and several procedural pictures. It's pretty much a progression of how my service has gone from tuning flat springs to incorporating some coil springs (Rented Mule Service) to an all coil action (Outlaw Mule Service).

With correct tuning and appropriate spring tension, you can have a perfectly working revolver without fighting a much too heavy mainspring.

Mike