.45-70 low velocity loads

[texal]

Just bought a Handi Rifle in .45-70. Would like to shoot 340 gr and 405 gr cast bullets at velocities of 1000-1100 fps. Any suggestions for powders and charge weights?

thanks for the help.

[NSB]

Take a look at Unique, 2400, and Trailboss. You can safely get some really soft shooting loads with all three powders. Your best bet for charge weights....to be safe, is to take what's in published manuals or reliable on-line sources. Loads off the net may or may not be safe to use if you can't verify them. FWIW, the original loads used by the army back in the 1800's were around 1100fps.

[Yooper003]

I bought a 8# keg of red dot abut 40 years ago, maybe longer, still got a couple lbs. it is working real well in my 45/70 with the lee 340 gr. 10 to 11 grs. Best.

[Skipper]

Texal, check out this page. Scroll down on the left side

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[Flailguy]

I've settled on 12.5gr unique behind accurate 46-345a. If I remember correctly it runs about 1,200fps.

[rfd]

for white devil dust filled cartridges - trail boss for mouse fart loads and aa5744 for consistent accuracy. no wads or fillers as that can be dangerous.

[redhawk0]

Just a quick question...what length barrel is your Handi?

Load data (velocities) is for a 24" barrel...you lose about 25fps per inch shorter than 24".

so...I'm assuming you have some loading manuals...it should be pretty easy to figure out how to get to 1000-1100fps using Trapdoor load data from a manual.

redhawk

[TCLouis]

10.5 Unique may well provide about 1105 fps with the 340 grainer for ya!

[scattershot]

Lyman’s Cast Bullet Handbook may be of some help.

[uscra112]

Red Dot will do you best. Unique will also work well. Around ten grains of either. Be super alert for double charges! Even bulky Red Dot will be under 40% fill ratio. Do not use fillers, either!

Around 13-14 grains of Blue Dot or 2400 might be worth a try.

The Red Dot load will be very quiet. Muzzle pressure only 800 psi.

[Duckiller]

Starting loads of Trail Boss works great for light loads. It will produce loads in the speed you desire.

[Gunlaker]

For the 405gr bullets I use Hodgdon trapdoor loads with H-4198 but I use a magnum primer rather than a standard one. I get velocities a little lower than what Hodgdon lists in my Ruger #1. They are right around 1100 fps. Very pleasant to shoot and quite accurate for plinking purposes to 100 yards.

Chris.

[Conditor22]

Welcome to CB texal.

Out of Lyman Cast bullet #4

https://i.imgur.com/emkfutM.jpg

The formula for using trail boss

IMR® TRAIL BOSS® REDUCED LOADS
FOR RIFLE AND PISTOL
As noted in the powder description section, Trail Boss was designed primarily for reduced loads using lead bullets in pistol cartridges.
However, Trail Boss offers superb versatility in rifle cartridges producing reduced loads using lead or jacketed bullets. These reduced loads make
firing such cartridges as the 300 Winchester Magnum or even the 458 Winchester Magnum pure fun!
Where data is already shown for specific cartridges, never exceed listed maximums. Many original black powder pistol cartridges have capacities
where a full case to the base of the intended bullet, creates charges that exceed maximum pressures allowed by SAAMI. In all these cartridges,
we show data that stays within the SAAMI maximum pressure guidelines.
Listed below we show a few examples of rifle loads throughout the Reloading Data Center, but the fun doesn't stop there. If you don't see Trail
Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be
used in both rifle and pistol applications:

1) Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location.
Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will
be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!

2) Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load.

3) Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once
found, the fun begins!

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/trail-boss-reduced-loads-2018.pdf

[pietro]

.

FWIW


METHOD FOR BOTH INDOOR & OUTDOOR GALLERY LOADS

WW or RP cases, size and expand.

.096 flash hole, Fed 215 or WLRM primer

The powder charge, governed by the distance being fired, is placed in the case and a .457 round ball, lubricated in Lee Alox, is positioned in the case mouth.

Then, the ball is pushed firmly onto the powder charge with a .45 caliber short starter (as used by the muzzle loading clan), twisting the ball slightly as it is seated releases trapped air.

(If air is not released during seating, a ball may pop out from one of the just-loaded rounds.)

Pressure is applied on the lead ball until it is seated to an index line marked on the short starter.

This index line, marked after the ball is firmly in place in the first cartridge loaded, provided a quick check for correct seating depth in subsequent rounds.

(pp 143 LOADING CARTRIDGES FOR THE ORIGINAL 45-70 SPRINGFIELD RIFLE AND CARBINE, J. S. & Pat Wolf)


Wolf goes on to say that:

A 5 gr of FFg in the rifle gives 570 FPS.

A 5 gr charge of FFFg gives a velocity of 630 FPS


.

[CamoWhamo]

I'm running 14gn of Trail Boss behind a 315gn cast bullet for 1185fps out of my 20" Contender Carbine barrel.

[JimB..]

.

FWIW


METHOD FOR BOTH INDOOR & OUTDOOR GALLERY LOADS

WW or RP cases, size and expand.

.096 flash hole, Fed 215 or WLRM primer

The powder charge, governed by the distance being fired, is placed in the case and a .457 round ball, lubricated in Lee Alox, is positioned in the case mouth.

Then, the ball is pushed firmly onto the powder charge with a .45 caliber short starter (as used by the muzzle loading clan), twisting the ball slightly as it is seated releases trapped air.

(If air is not released during seating, a ball may pop out from one of the just-loaded rounds.)

Pressure is applied on the lead ball until it is seated to an index line marked on the short starter.

This index line, marked after the ball is firmly in place in the first cartridge loaded, provided a quick check for correct seating depth in subsequent rounds.

(pp 143 LOADING CARTRIDGES FOR THE ORIGINAL 45-70 SPRINGFIELD RIFLE AND CARBINE, J. S. & Pat Wolf)


Wolf goes on to say that:

A 5 gr of FFg in the rifle gives 570 FPS.

A 5 gr charge of FFFg gives a velocity of 630 FPS


.

very cool, thanks!

[white eagle]

ever consider black powder?
I have shot it out of two of my 45-70's
like it alot

[15meter]

Do a search for whisper loads, mouse fart loads, cat's sneeze loads, there are various names for ultra light loads.

Or just go here:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?345420-Whisper-loads-for-223-30-30-30-06-45-70

Or directly to the article:http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Whisper%20Loads.pdf

The ultra light loads are a hoot, just make sure they clear the barrel after every shot. You don't need to be like a buddy who was handed a bunch of mouse fart loads, put them in his revolver and starting pulling the trigger. when the cylinder locked up because he had 5 slugs stacked up in the barrel he figured out he had a "minor" problem. He never used borrowed ammo from that dude again.
Luckily the pressure was so low it didn't damage the gun, well at least until the shade tree gunsmith who was lined up by the guy who gave him the ammo got a hold of the gun. He managed to bugger up the rifling while digging out the slugs.

[MT Chambers]

Either Trail Boss or real black powder, no chance of double charging with either of these and vel's. from 900fps to 1200.

[McLintock]

My Cowboy Action amigos and I shot 45-70's in both single shots and lever guns for over ten years with a load of 22.5 to 24 grs of 5744 and 405 gr bullets and did really well in both long range side matches. I chrony'd it at just over 1200 FPS in both a Browning 86 rifle and Browning 1885 Traditional Hunter and it was super consistent and accurate in half a dozen different rifles we shot it out of. I won the Winter Range National Cowboy Big Bore Lever gun side match in 2007 with my Browning and that load. It's soft enough shooting so I did 10 hits at 150 yards in just under 23 seconds, so it can't be too bad recoiling.
McLintock