Need help identifying a rifle.

[Idaho45guy]

Buddy of mine got this rifle from his grandfather years ago and was curious as to what it is. Doesn't sound like he's too attached to it so a rough value would be appreciated as well.

243454

243455

243456

[Winger Ed.]

I haven't seen one since I was a kid, but it sure reminds me of a WWII Japanese Ariska.

If it has a small chrysanthemum flower stamped on it, that would about confirm it.

If it is, don't expect to win very many benchrest competitions with it.
They cost about $2. to produce.

[Idaho45guy]

I think you're right. Definitely an Ariska. Looks like it's in pretty rough shape and not worth much over $100.

[CrystalShip]

That is your traditional Bubbasized Japanese. It also has Custom Hacksaw stock

[pworley1]

I agree with those above. It looks like the last ditch 7.7's

[Earlwb]

I would say that it is a Japanese Type 38 Arisaka rifle. More than likely in 6.5x50 caliber. But they did make a Type 99 rifle in 7.7x58 caliber though. I can't tell for sure which caliber you have from the pics. Someone sporterized it by cutting down the stock and refinishing it. The simple crude rear sight makes it a late war issue when the Japanese were trying to simplify production. In any case the rifles are very strong and the cartridges they shoot are quite good and excellent for big game hunting. But one thought is you may need to get a chamber cast made to double check the caliber it uses. Right after the war, the bring back rifles didn't have ammunition for them, so people converted them to wildcat calibers like the 6.5x257 Roberts for example. Some people did convert the Type 99 7.7mm rifles to 30-06, but the slightly larger diameter chamber results in bulged cases when fired. The Chinese converted many rifles to fire the German 8x57 Mauser round too. The unaltered rifles with a Chrysanthemum symbol on top of the receiver command much higher prices than the ones with the mum ground off or defaced. Anyway I would venture that if the bore is good the sporterized one is probably a $200 to $300 dollar gun.

[RustyReel]

I agree with those above. It looks like the last ditch 7.7's

Yep, that's what it looks like to me. You probably should do some research on the "last ditch" rifles before doing much with it.

[skeettx]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arisaka

[TCLouis]

Looks to be a type 99 "Last Ditch" rifle.

Got out my magnifying glass and looked closer and though it has a crummy safety, it is possible that it is not a last ditch.

I have not seen that rear sight before (course there are a lot of things I have not seen :-D).

[TNsailorman]

Wood butt plate, peep sight, bolt handle shape(not contoured to teardrop shape), sure look like a late war production rifle type 99. james

[ascast]

I am not a Jap rifle guy, but some had chrome plated bores and held up very well. If you can figure out the caliber as discussed above, you'll have a nice deer gun.

[Texas by God]

Most definitely a late war 99 7.7x58mm Arisaka. If the bore and headspace are good and it’s pronounced fit by a qualified gunsmith; I’d shoot the cobwebs out of it. I’ve had two 99’s and they were good shooters.

[El Bibliotecario]

The characters on the receiver identify the model. It is not necessary to know japanese--two identical characters stand for the digits '99' as in Model 99; two different characters for '38,' as in Model 38.

[JM7.7x58]

That is a Type 99 Arisaka. It was built later than 1943. I have a mid-war 1943 Type 99 that was made at Nagoya. Mine has a metal butt plate, it also still has a flip up rear sight (no anti aircraft side wings on my sight). The earlier bolts (beginning of the war) still had the safety knob welded on but they were machined/knurled, after welding. My 43' is not machined/knurled, it looks like your bolt in your picture.

The Japanese skimped on many aspects later in the war. As the war went on they approved more and more economizing. They did not however make a weak action. The latter rifles are very rough looking, but still strong and serviceable.

For what it's worth, my bore is one of the more oversized, it slugged at .316".

As far as worth goes, check out the eBay listings for “type 99 Arisaka”. A bubba gun can be worth more when broken down into parts.

JM

[Idaho45guy]

Thanks for all of the great replies! The owner of the rifle is very pleased to learn that the old rifle his grandpa gave him was one he brought back from WWII.

[popper]

SIL has a original bring back in good shape, it shoots great. You do have to find out what chamber it has, many were modded. Official modded have the ground off chys. but who knows. IIRC some will take 303 ammo which is more available than 7.7 jap stuff. Don't know what wood they used but much lighter than a garand.

[725]

That rear sight confirms it for me as a "last ditch" rifle. Very crude in it's finish, but that doesn't make it a bad get. My buddy has one and it is very accurate for an open sighter. Definitely one you can have a lot of fun with.

[TCLouis]

If it is deemed shootable you may be surprised what it will do with a trusty ol boolit.
Somewhere here a target is posted showing what my full military did with Ranch Dog Boolits at 50 yards.
That powder is long since off the market, but something to produce groups like that can be found
AND
That is with a trigger that makes a SKS trigger feel "Match Grade".

[EO1]

Do not try to shoot 303 Brit in that. The only similarity between 7.7 Jap and 303 British is the bullet diameter.
Look for ammo at ammoseek, but it aint cheap.

[SSGOldfart]

Some of the type 99's were built by using type38 parts

[Wayne Smith]

SIL has a original bring back in good shape, it shoots great. You do have to find out what chamber it has, many were modded. Official modded have the ground off chys. but who knows. IIRC some will take 303 ammo which is more available than 7.7 jap stuff. Don't know what wood they used but much lighter than a garand.
Ground off chry. is no indication of anything but a rifle picked up/turned in after the surrender. All such rifles had the mum ground off. As issued and captured during the war and brought back can have the mum intact.

[Multigunner]

Some last ditch 7.7 rifles used a older type 38 6.5 receiver with a 99 type bolt. Don't know if there's anything special done to make the bolts fit.

I'd just clean it up, make sure its safe and leave it as is as a family heirloom. It could also be a good game getter within its limitations and perhaps a loaner for a hunting party.

[abunaitoo]

Arisaka that someone has sporterized.
To bad.
It is a last ditch.
Flat bolt safety, soup can bolt knob, fixed rear sight.
Looks like someone tried to bend the handle down.
Stock cut.
Looks like it has a wood butt plate.
If so, very late war last ditch.
Probably didn't have the Mum on the reciver.
If it were still original, would have made a desirable collectable.

[3006guns]

Some of the type 99's were built by using type38 parts

No, they weren't. The type 99 is a completely different rifle, although the design is quite similar. It was designed as a replacement for the type 38, using a larger bullet (7.7mm) as a result of the Japanese experiences in their China campaign (invasion). The 99 is designed for more rapid production, just like our 1903A3. The OP's rifle is a very late war example, with the wooden buttplate, oversize recoil bolt and simplified parts. The type 99 is a good, strong rifle.........even the last ones, despite their appearance.

The Jap rifles are unusual in that metallurgical examinations revealed that each part has a SEPARATE heat treatment, in order to do its job. This was discovered by the H.P. White Laboratories at the request of Parker Ackley after he found it almost impossible to blow one up with his hot wildcat loads back in the fifties. White Labs commented that the heat treatment was advanced, almost elaborate, and was consistent from gun to gun. In other words, the Japanese designed an improved, simplified Mauser using the best materials and production techniques. The unfair reputation of these guns came from the strong anti Japanese sentiments following Pearl Harbor, when the whole race was condemned as "weak eyed, buck toothed toy makers...unable to create anything original. They can only copy other things.....and poorly." I'm paraphrasing a bit, but that was the description I read in an article written by a gun "expert" at the beginning of WWII. He was wrong. Flat out wrong.

Note: The bolts of the type 38 and 99 are NOT interchangeable. The bolt lugs on the type 38 are slightly deeper, so it's possible to install a type 99 bolt in a type 38 rifle, but the result is dangerous as it leaves the bolt head unsupported...excessive headspace.

[Multigunner]

"Note: The bolts of the type 38 and 99 are NOT interchangeable. The bolt lugs on the type 38 are slightly deeper, so it's possible to install a type 99 bolt in a type 38 rifle, but the result is dangerous as it leaves the bolt head unsupported...excessive headspace. "

All I remember reguarding this was photos in a reference book showing a 7.7 last ditch rifle described as being made using a salvaged earlier type Calvary carbine receiver with new rifle length barrel in 7.7 mm and bolt more like that of the type 99.
Probably a purpose made bolt.
It could have been a one off tool room prototype I suppose.
I've found that the 6.5 type 44 calvary carbine which used a Type 38 action was subject of attempts to rebarrel it to 7.7 late in the war but the project was dropped because the very short and light carbines kicked too much.
A few worn Type 44 Carbines may have been converted to last ditch rifles using bolts with Type 38 lugs but with the roughly made skinny bolt handles with small cylindrical knob found on some last ditch rifles.

PS
I suspect a few of the smooth bore training rifles intended for use with blanks may have blown out their two piece pipe stock barrels if fired with live ammo.
The blank firing trainer I had years ago was given to me by a relative who said he had fired it using live ammo but couldn't hit any thing. He had not known it was a training rifle at the time.

The Japanese did copy weapons designed in Europe and in the USA. Their main flex mounted aerial guns were copies of the US designed Lewis gun. They chose the beefed up .30-06 version to copy but chambered it for a 7.7mm cartridge interchangeable with the .303 British.
Most if not all their aircraft MGs were copies of western designs.
They also built some pretty weird machineguns that were hopper fed or used stacks of rifle clips in a complicated feed mechanism.
For the most part their domestic firearms designs were overly complicated and not well thought out.

[Earlwb]

Well, the Arisaka rifles are great donor rifles where you can use the action to make some other caliber rifle out of them. I did get several of the rifles, in fair condition to convert myself. I converted one to 22-250 Ackley Improved and it has turned out to be a tack driver. On a good day I can put ten rounds into one small hole at 100 yards. So if you have a rifle that isn't much for collector value then by all means customize it, or sporterize it. Anyway, way back after WWII the Arisakas did not have any value to them, so the guns were sporterized and used for hunting. After the war there wasn't much in the way to buy as to hunting rifles. So people used what they had.

[Stephen Cohen]

I haven't seen one since I was a kid, but it sure reminds me of a WWII Japanese Ariska.

If it has a small chrysanthemum flower stamped on it, that would about confirm it.

If it is, don't expect to win very many benchrest competitions with it.
They cost about $2. to produce.

My grandad had one his brother captured on the Kakoda trail, it was used by a Jap sniper that took a heavy tool of our boys, I remember it had a couple dozen notches on it and the shark skin bag of cartridges that the Jap hung over his shoulder while sitting in a tree hide. It was many years after the war before my Grandad could bring himself to shoot it along side his 303 Lee Enfield Range rifle and found it to be extremely accurate. I inherited it on Gran dads death and some slime bag stole it before I could fire it, perhaps the Japs like the Brits hand picked their sniper rifles. They are an ugly rifle no doubt. Regards Stephen

[Arisaka99]

Ground off chry. is no indication of anything but a rifle picked up/turned in after the surrender. All such rifles had the mum ground off. As issued and captured during the war and brought back can have the mum intact.

To expound on Wayne's comment,

My Type 99 still has the mum, but was sporterized and reamed for 30-06. I'll see if I can rustle up a picture of it.

Like your friend's, mine was a family heirloom and Wayne had it fitted for a Lyman receiver sight and helped me refinish the stock and learn to load for it.