loads for a snubby

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Well I found my pocket gun a have a smith and wesson 637 wyatt deep cover in jail looks like it was never fired I could not pass up this little guy for $300 will bring it home next week in the mean time I have no ammo for a 38 on hand and never loaded for a 2" barrel on hand I have 148gr DEWC and 358477 and J-words in 125gr HP and 158gr JSP what I would like is some suggestions for powder not looking to load +p so if you would pass on your pet load I do have some brass that I'm going to start to prep and some dies to adjust
Thanks LD

[str8wal]

I load 4.8 grains of TG behind a 125 for my LCRx 2". It is halfway between 38 Special max and +P. Gives a decent smack to the hand but not brutal. For my daughter I back down to 4.3 grains as she didn't like the recoil.

Nice buy on the Smif

[stubshaft]

I use 3.5 Red Dot behind a RCBS 158RN. It shoots to point of aim with my 36 and 642.

[Rick Hodges]

I use 6.0 gr. of Power Pistol and Lee 358 125 RF (129 gr. in my alloy) It is a top standard 38 special load and duplicates my 130gr. W/W Hp for practice. (The W/W is +P)
Not in a snub but a 3" Ruger LCRx

[Edward]

Well I found my pocket gun a have a smith and wesson 637 wyatt deep cover in jail looks like it was never fired I could not pass up this little guy for $300 will bring it home next week in the mean time I have no ammo for a 38 on hand and never loaded for a 2" barrel on hand I have 148gr DEWC and 358477 and J-words in 125gr HP and 158gr JSP what I would like is some suggestions for powder not looking to load +p so if you would pass on your pet load I do have some brass that I'm going to start to prep and some dies to adjust
Thanks LDYou did good, got the same gun but gave $550.00 to bring it home for the wife . I load 5.2 grains of unique under a Hornady 158 gr XTP for social work and shoot what ever cast SWC I have handy for fun
the wife lets me have fun with it ! Ed

[LUCKYDAWG13]

You did good, got the same gun but gave $550.00 to bring it home for the wife . I load 5.2 grains of unique under a Hornady 158 gr XTP for social work and shoot what ever cast SWC I have handy for fun
the wife lets me have fun with it ! Ed

I will give that load a try I went looking for a S&W 642 but when I came across the 637 Deep cover it just called out to me
and the trigger is Awesome dont know if I will keep the grips that are on it but I will see how that belt hook works or if it prints
in my pocket or not

[Dan Cash]

Pick a good service load that works well in your other .38s and shoot it. You will be money ahead with more practice than with tinkering. 158 - 160 gain bullet over 4.8 grains of Unique is a place to start.

[Tracy]

I'll second the 3.5 Red Dot under a 158 cast.

[Petrol & Powder]

You really can't go wrong with a standard pressure load and a lead bullet in the 150-160 grain range. My opinion is that short barreled 38 Specials do their best work with bullets in the 150-160gr range. Lighter bullets rarely impact at point of aim with those fixed sights regulated for 158 gr bullets. While you can push a lighter bullet faster, I feel you can't push it fast enough out of a 2" barrel to compensate for the reduced mass.

I've been working with the snubnose platform in 38 Special for decades, including a lot of lightweight alloy frames. My normal load for a 2" lightweight revolver is a RCBS 38-148-WC that weighs about 156grs and 3.1 gr of Bullseye.
I shot a ton or two of Speer and Hornady HBWC's before I was casting and most of those were propelled by a light charge of ww231; also a good LW snubnose load if you're shooting store bought bullets.

My standard SWC load is a SAECO 382 (close in design to your 358477) and 3.5 grains of Bullseye. That load is a little warmer than the above listed full WC load but not by much and still standard pressure.

There's no reason to abuse the shooter and the gun but those alloy J-frames are actually a lot tougher than people give them credit for.

As for powders, there are a lot of choices for 38 Special but Bullseye and 231 are still my favorites. I'm not a huge fan of Unique because it doesn't meter as well as the ball powders and it seems to work better near the upper pressure limits.

I've used most of the faster powders in 38 Special at one time or another. My highest round count is with WW231.
Bullseye is still hard to beat (I've switched to it after many years) and its history & performance is undeniable.
AA#2 will also work but frankly I never saw an improvement over ww231.
I can't speak to Titegroup.
WSF works great in 9mm but I never got it to work well in 38 Special.

If you're using a single stage press, I recommend a Lyman "M" die expander. If you're using a Dillon 550 I HIGHLY recommend a powder funnel (powder through expander) from Lathesmith.

The 38 snubnose is a GREAT tool !

GOOD LUCK !

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Well I loaded up 50 rounds with Unique and yes it meters bad well not as good as W231 and I will load up some with that this weekend
when I get off work as well as with the RedDot I have both on hand

[RED BEAR]

I like 3.1 unique and a 200 rnfp. Mild load and will do the job if you do yours.

[FergusonTO35]

Listen to Petrol and Powder, he knows what he is talking about!

I currently stoke my 637 with 3.1 grains Accurate Nitro 100 under a 150 grain SWC with a CCI primer. Clocks a consistent 690 fps across my chrono, easy to shoot, and is as accurate as anything else I have ever tried. Nitro 100 burns really clean too!

[shooting on a shoestring]

In my opinion, your best boolit for social work is your 148 gr DEWC followed by the 358477. I’d save the jacketed stuff for 357s. Push those 148 WCs with about 3.5 gr Bullseye and you’ll have all meanness you can expect a 2” J-Frame to deliver, and quite frankly, it’s enough.

[rking22]

I also suggest 3.2 to 3.5 of bullseye and the de wadcutters, outstanding load. Accurate and who cares if it expands. 3.5 is my everyday everything load in my M36.

[country gent]

My practice accuracy load is 2.7 grns bullseye ( the old one) and a 148 grn wadcutter, hollow bases really shine here. Loads in a good manual should get you going, even data here shoukd be checked against a current manual for safety.

[GhostHawk]

I'll third the Red Dot load.

I'm filling mine with 3 grains under a 158 gr round nose.
Next batch will play with 125 gr.
I like to keep the recoil and muzzle blast down. Red Dot is great for that IMO.

[RED BEAR]

I am surprised . I must be the only fan of big bullets. For those who don't like unique 2.8 or red dot works well to. I may be out in left field but i have always liked a big hunk of dead soft lead.

[Froogal]

I will give that load a try I went looking for a S&W 642 but when I came across the 637 Deep cover it just called out to me
and the trigger is Awesome dont know if I will keep the grips that are on it but I will see how that belt hook works or if it prints
in my pocket or not

Very similar to what I load for my 642. I've tried some +P loads. They make more noise and develop more recoil, but are not any better in my opinion. If I feel a need for recoil, I'll bring out my Uberti in .45 Colt.

[onelight]

I like 3.7 grains of red dot and a 130 rnfp I was loading those for my wife to practice with in her lcr and 649 but they shoot good in every thing I have shot them in . They will clover leaf in my Rossi 92 at 25 yards.

[curioushooter]

Not sure what you want the load for...and that matters.

My view of snubs is 100% business. They are personal weapons. As such I only load them with the absolute best ammo available, which is currently the Federal 38+P 130 Grain HST. In both my 442 and my wife's 638 this ammo is accurate, hits to point of aim, and has the absolute best overall performance that can be obtained in a 38 with a short barrel.

The HST bullet is not available for retail sale, so I ballistically match it with a cast boolit. My attempts using 140 grain and heavier wadcutters have not been met with success. I think I may try with the LEE 125 grain RF bullet next.

As far as good loads for a snubbie. I have not found anything to be truly a pet load (unlike 357 Magnum where I do have some pet loads). The highest velocities I have obtained have been with PowerPistol and Accurate #5. Both of them are too dense and leave much space in the case, even with heavy bullets. Accuracy is nothing special (unlike the Federal HST which is the most accurate normal handgun ammo I have ever used). My thinking is that Unique is a good powder for 38, many classic loads use Unique. And if you have some I'd start there with the usual bullets and book load data. Tightgroup is another powder that has much accuracy potential, but it is too fast for max velocity with anything besides maybe a 110 grain bullet.

[Mtnfolk75]

I acquired a NIB Charter Arms Undercover Back in October, finally had a chance to tinker with it in early April. Tried several cylinders of 150 Grain WC from Buffalo Bore & several cylinders of 158 Grain +P LSWCHP from Underwood, both were not bad to shoot but not very accurate at 10 yards. When I tried 130 Grain Federal Ultra Target & Range 130 Grain FMJ I was surprised that it shot a lot tighter groups to point of aim, I shot the entire 50 round box then switched to the Winchester Ranger 130 Grain +P Bonded JHP and found nearly the same accuracy & POI. Since then I have shot the same sequence with the Federal & Winchester with identical results. Two 50 round boxes of each had convinced me it wasn’t a fluke, the Winchester has become my carry load. The Charter wears a pair of Silverblack Dymondwood Grips and has a Factory DAO Hammer.

My wife & I are currently living with my 89 year old Dad, helping him with his day to day stuff since my Mother passed last August. Haven’t had any time to spend reloading or casting so Factory will have to suffice for now :2gunsfiring_v1:

[phantom22]

I've used 3gn of Bullseye for 125gn bullets of all types in a model 36 with decent accuracy. It's a a very mild recoil and is great for plinking.

[Dan Cash]

I am surprised . I must be the only fan of big bullets. For those who don't like unique 2.8 or red dot works well to. I may be out in left field but i have always liked a big hunk of dead soft lead.

Surprisingly, I load the same load as you, especially for my 2" M&P and a couple hammerless J frame .357s. It works well for me too. No aversion to big lead.

[Outpost75]

I would avoid +P in an Airweight J-frame. Also, firing a light .38 Special which weighs only a pound, you will find anything exceeding standard-pressure, lead bullet factory ammo unpleasant to shoot. My experience has been that JHP bullets generally require +P loads to expand at all from 2" barrels.

Either a DEWC or SWC with large meplat from 146-160 grains with 3.0-3.5 grains of any fast-burning pistol or shotgun powder such as Bullseye, TiteGroup, Red Dot, 700-X, WST or 452AA will give you about 700 fps, which is where you should quit in an Airweight J-frame if you want the gun to last.

Factory target wadcutters are a good choice in an Airweight snub.

.38 Special Velocity Vs. Barrel Length_________S&W Mod. 10, 4”
----------------------------------------------------------- 0.005” cylinder gap

Federal 125 Nyclad HP 852 fps, 25 Sd
Remington 148 HBWC 747 fps, 6 Sd
Winchester 148 HBWC 742 fps, 13 Sd
WCC87 Ball M41 130-gr. FMJ 748 fps, 21 Sd
Winchester X38SPD 158-gr. LHP +P 920 fps 21 Sd
Winchester Q4196 158-gr. LRN 793 fps, 10 Sd
Federal HydaShok 147-gr. JHP +P+LE 965 fps, 33 Sd

.38 Special chronograph data, Colt Detective Special 2” REVOLVER, 0.005” cylinder gap 6-22-93

__________________________________________Vel. Loss of 2” vs. 4” barrel:
Federal 125-gr. Nyclad SWCHP 772 fps, 33 Sd_______80 fps
Remington 148-gr. HBWC 702 fps, 12 Sd___________45 fps
Winchester 148-gr. HBWC 697 fps, 18 Sd___________45 fps
WCC87 Ball M41 130-gr. FMJ 718 fps, 31 Sd_________30 fps
Winchester X38SPD 158-gr. LHP +P 831 fps, 10 Sd____89 fps
Winchester Q4196 158-gr. LRN 728 fps, 24 Sd_______65 fps
Federal HydraShok 147-gr. JHP+P+ LE 920 fps, 6 Sd__45 fps

Column Mean______________________________57 fps, ~29 fps/inch.

[FergusonTO35]

Agree 100%. If you really want to push .38 Specials hard then you ought to just move up to a .357 revolver. The SP-101 would be my choice!

[Outpost75]

My observation over many years, which many others I know also agree with, based upon their experience, is that a handgun which weighs more than 22 ozs. LOADED is too much for "pocket" carry. I found that makes sense.

[T_McD]

No loads, but I would recommend making sure you don’t load too lightly. I had a snub nose that I traded for a 4inch model 10. I ended up with squibs due to the extra barrel length. They were not light loads, just reloading to replicate approximately the same recoil as cheapo .38 special.

Just a thought.

[FergusonTO35]

Agreed 100%. Too light of a load might also not penetrate heavy clothing or muscle. Since high velocity isn't going to be had with a snubnose without considerable recoil, I say go for a high sectional density boolit.

[Groo]

Groo here
Supervel Super Snub 38 +P

[35remington]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4CD0f131bJg

Seems like the stubby little bullet doesn’t expand much which may be a very good thing.

[junkbug]

Outpost75:
So, in your experience, are both the S&W 49 and the all steel S&W 640 Centennial in .38 Special are just a little too heavy for pocket carry? If so, then what would be good, quality candidates for a snub nose pocket carry revolver?

[Petrol & Powder]

junkbug, I'm not Outpost75 but I'll chime in here with my own input.

Having spent decades with the snubnose platform I can say that a steel framed snubnose J-frame is a bit heavy for pocket carry. It's not really the actual weight but more the way it carries in a pocket.
I carried one of the early 640 models back when they had the 1 7/8" barrel (early 1990's) and it just didn't ride well in a pocket holster. I picked up an Airweight 442 and planed to practice more with the 640 and carry the 442. That didn't pan out and I ended up just practicing and carrying the lighter 442.

The new 640 models have 2 1/8" barrels and that extra 1/4" makes them even less suitable for pocket carry, IMO.

I also worked with several other types: A bobbed hammer SP101, A Colt Agent, A Colt Detective Special with a bobbed hammer and a S&W model 64 with a bobbed hammer - just to name some.

The conclusions I drew were similar to the ones expressed by Outpost, you get to a weight/size where pocket carry requires some accommodations such as pants with deep pockets and/or modifying the pockets exclusively for pocket carry.

Somewhat surprising, the Colt Detective Special with a bobbed hammer was a steel framed gun that was almost as easy to carry as the Airweight DAO J-frame but I never warmed up to the Colt action.

The SP101 is a great gun but just too big/heavy for pocket carry for me, YMMV.

The bobbed hammer K-frame (model 64) was by far the easiest to shoot but not at all suitable for carry in blue jeans. It was also far too heavy for lightweight pants. (suits).

I don't dislike the S&W Bodyguard revolvers (models 38, 49, 649, etc) but I never warmed up to them. I absolutely DO NOT need the single action capability and prefer the internal hammer DAO models, so I avoided the Bodyguard models. I've shot them but I'll stick with the Centennial models.

Now, just for some anecdotal information; a friend owns an old S&W Model 40 and I've shot that steel framed revolver. For some reason it just clicks with me and I can shoot it better than most J-frames. I would carry that particular steel framed gun if I could. I've offered him almost obscene amounts of money and he will not sell it. So there may be exceptions to the weight limits.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

the S&W 637 did the trick for me I carry it all the time the trigger is real good on it too 249116 This is what a got just changed the grips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gf5jEvt1bg

[junkbug]

Thanks for the response, and advice guys. I really like the feel of the 640 Centennial in .38 Special with the short barrel. But I have never tried to carry one. Perhaps an alloy frame gun is better.