Rebarrel Moisin Nagant 91/30

[8mmshooter]

I am going to ask a dumb question here. Would it be possible to rebarrel a 91/30 to 45/70 ? Cost effective? or a total waste of time and leave well enough alone? Curious minds........ (mainly mine)...... want to know. I have always wanted a sharps replica..... can't quite seem to get all the dinero ....saved that is ; for one. Somethin else always seems to come along . I've got a lonely Lyman mold picked up cheap at a garage sale.....$10.00 complete with handles that I would like to find a rifle to use it in . I imagine that the magazine could not be altered enough to work; but could it be made into a single shot? Just got a hankerin for a Black catridge rifle . What say ye? Ole wise men of the silver stream? Buy a handi rifle instead? TIA 8mmshooter

[Mel-4857]

Hi 8mmshooter, I'm in the process of doing something similar to what you want. My gunsmith ordered a a heavy .45 cal barrel from Track of the Wolf and will install it on a 1910 Ross action. Will use the existing rear peep sight and a Lyman globe front sight. It'll be a single shot and will be shot with cast and mostly black powder. I'll stock it myself. It'll be a 45/70. It'll proably cost about the same or slightly more than a Handi Rifle but it'll be different and heavier to absorb the recoil(easier on my aging shoulder). I'll be shooting it mostly at the range . I think it'll be great fun. Mel

[Johnch]

A freind has a 91/30 that he rebarreled to 45/70 and he installed a side mount scope .
I have shot it a few times and tryed to sneak it home .
I have been after him to do one for me , because it is a great shooter .

Johnch

[KCSO]

Yes and the magazine can be made to work also. The M/N action is good to 48,000 psi so you could load to at least Marlin 1985 loads. I have not presonally done a M/N, but I have done Mausers, Enfields and one Styer straight pull. I may have to try a M/N just to Git er done. I would sho GPC for one of their 45-70 tubes and after that it all depends on how much work you can do at home.

[StarMetal]

ksco

The mosin nagant may be rated at 48,000, I don't know I've never researched itk, but it can be load WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond an 1895 Marlin, which isn't really that strong. Recenty Jumptrap did a blowup test on a mosin nagant action and let's just say a case full of Bullseyes didn't wreck it that badly. You're way off on this one ksco...sorry.

Joe

[Jumptrap]

I have no idea what some scientist has declared the Mosin fit for pressurewise....but i'll tell you this.....you'll quit before the Mosin action will. I think you can safely push the 45-70 as far as you have gonads to go and not hurt the action. The recoil factor will tell you when you've had enough. I have absolutely no fear, that a sound Mosin action will handle any load listed for a #1 Ruger.

Now, the only thing I must say is that the action i torture tested was a 1944 or '45 round action. It may or may not be stronger than the older hex variety.

If anybody can rebarrel one of these to 45-70 for a reasonable fee, I'm game for one.

[Buckshot]

...........Joe, calm down there son! I'll bet that what KSCO wrote he expected people to pick up as that is the cartridge's design pressure it was used for. Just because an action is fed a blue pill to proof it at 86,000 psi means you're gonna load your plinking ammo to that :D

When the Mosin Nagant was designed in the 1890's steel was still somewhat of a mystery to even the learned engineers and chemists of the day. They made some good stuff with that they knew about and what they had. They used the best steel for the purpose that they could get thier hands on and then created a design to be safe with the material they had for the ammo they were working on.

BTW, Big 5 had the M91/30's on sale. I was gonna see if I could get a bottom box for my lathe tools but figured out that would be just too much money. I saw the add and figured that's be simple to accomplish. That way I could use a M91/30 I got for $39 from SOG many, many years ago to possibly concoct a 38-55 or 30-30 on!? Who knows?

................Buckshot

[KCSO]

In my Siamese mauser I loaded to 52 grains of 30-31 ad a 405 jacked bullet. That load was estimated at 46,000. That was as much a laod as I cared to shoot. My point was that the M/N action is good for a LOT more load than a trapdoor or standard factory loads. A buddy of mine is big on M/N and shoots a 150 jacketed slug at 2900 from a 24" bbl rifle and that is just about the same as a 06.

[jballs918]

i would be interested in a 45/70 mn. that would be great. i was looking into the 45/70 levers those look like a whoot. but 600 bones it alot for me. im wondering what all would be in this to get it done

[9.3X62AL]

Mosin-Nagant in 45-70.......kind of a cool concept, no worse than chambering a 95 Winchester in 35 Whelen or 9.3 x 62. Frankenstein of the Rodina.

[StarMetal]

Well the part that got me was saying that the mosin was good for 1895 marlin loads. What makes everyone think the Marlin is so strong for a lever action? If you take one apart all it is, is a round bolt that has a notch at the rear that locking lug locks into. Now look at the 94 Win. It has a lug that completely blocks off the whole rear of the bolt from moving rearward. The 1886's have two big lugs that lock up the bolt on both sides. Yeah, I know, the Marlin has a solid receiver that adds strenght, but how much? From visiting alot of leveraction forums the majority of the concensus is that the Winchester is far stronger the Marlin. That's why I said what I said about the mosin. Nobody blinks an eye at converting a Siamese Mauser to 45-70, but they seem to say something about a mosin being converted.

Buckshot

Why say something to me in kind of a way I've been a bad kid or that I'm upset, when what Jumptrap said was basically the same thing, although he didn't include ksco's name in it, but did infer he had no fears of shooting a mosin that had Ruger #1 one loads in it. Thats basically saying what I said, it will handle way more powerful loads then an 1895 Marlin. This is not to say Jumpstrap says stuff and gets away with it, I like Jump, but why single me out. By now you fellows should be use to my style of how phrase and word things. Sorry if that is my style.

ksco,

If that is what you meant, then say that, which you later did. Say exactly what you think. No reflection on you. I was just saying that if you though that all a mosin was good for in 45-70 loads were 1895 Marlin ones,that you were wrong. Now recoil is a whole other animal. Like Jump said you will know when to quit with a Mosin before reaching a dangerous point.

Joe

[Jumptrap]

Mosin-Nagant in 45-70.......kind of a cool concept, no worse than chambering a 95 Winchester in 35 Whelen or 9.3 x 62. Frankenstein of the Rodina.

I had on of my 95's retubed to 35 whelen..it gets your attention in a hurry, but such a fine rifle...makes the '06 version seem like a pussykat.

[9.3X62AL]

J-trap......

I'll bet the crescent buttplate is a real pleasure, if so equipped. Big boolits make rifles come back more vigorously, for sure. I had a chance at an original (but re-blued nicely) 95 in 405.......thought about 300 grain bullets at 2200 FPS and that skinny buttstock. Pass.

[KCSO]

Alice: " I say what I mean is the same as I mean what I say".

Mad Hatter: "No, thats like saying I see what I eat is the same as I eat what I see".

Having loaded and shot a lot of 45 smokless loads in various rifles I use tha Marlin as an example simply because that is all I can STAND to shoot. I fired ONE round of Elmer Keith's Marlin load from my Ruger #3 and then I sat down and cried. I admit it Star your a better man than I am and when I get a 45-70 M/N done I will ship it to you for proofing and load development.

This whole thing has got me going and I have a M/N 44 in the corner and a 45 barrel in the rack.

[8mmshooter]

KCSO ......I sure would like to hear about your experiences or any else's for that matter ...on the possiblility of a 45/70 on any military action. I just thought that possibly the mosin nagant being a rimmed catridge would lend itself to the 45/70 conversion. I have very limited experience in gunsmithing; but find Buckshots conversions and the others here as well ,very fascinating. I've learned alot here from you all and I am envious of all the members mechanical skills and experiences. I've learned a wealth of info from all you folks. I'm an eager student and I'm always on the lookout for different ways of doing things. 8mmshooter

[StarMetal]

ksco

I'm not a better man then you are. Hey I would test that 45-70 Mosin for you, I'm not recoil sensitive, I don't like getting pounded, but I'll take it to shoot a particular gun. I have a Browning 1886 Winchester 45-70. Has the steel cresent buttplate. I bought a RCBS 405 gr gascheck mould for it. I settled on the first load of 50 some grains of H4895. Over my chrono it says it's clocking 1850 fps. It packs a wallop on my shoulder alright, but being my first 45-70 and it's a big cartridge and all with that big heavy bullet ( I think it's casting at like 420 grs) so I thought nothing of it....until I joined this gang here at this forum. Apparently that's alittle heavy for plinking, target shooting, and even not necessary for whitetail deer. Gee...I didn't know it. I don't want you to get me wrong on that Mosin conversion. I'm just saying it'll take pretty stiff loads, like Jumptrap said up there with the Ruger #1, but that's not saying I'd shoot the max loads all the time...just that the rifle has the grunt to take what you want to shoot out of it. I'd be interested in seeing which one would give out first, a Mosin in 45-70 or those Gibbs rifles #4 Enfields in 45-70. I'll say the Gibbs would give up the ghost first.

When you get that Mosin built send her on down this way for testing...I'll post pictures of the targets and the black&blue bruises on my shoulder!!!!!

Joe

[moodyholler]

I have a Winnie Hotchkiss in 45-70 and it looks just like a M/N in the design of the action. Although it feeds through the butttstock it makes for a neat 45-70 rifle. SOunds good to me!! I want one since I sold my Siamese this fall. BTW, a friend of mine shot one of the GIBBS rifles and said it hurt like Hell. moodyholler

[StarMetal]

I read an article, with pictures too, of that Winnie Hotchkiss. I too thought it looked like a Mosin.

Hey those original 303 Jungle Carbines I heard kick pretty good even in that 303 chambering so there's no doubt that bugger is going to bite you in 45 caliber....still a neat rifle though.

Little interesting note on Mosins. Some Mosins have a threahed hole with a flat screw in it right in the area of the receiver where the barrel threads are. It's hidden in the stock so you can't see it when the rifle is assembled. The pupose of this screw is for a greasing attachment to grease those barrel threads for easier barrel removal. Now I've never taken a barrel off a Mosin, so apparently some of them must be tough to get off. KSCO..chime in on that if you have knowledge of Mosin rebarreling...are they hard to get off? I bring this up because I don't want anyone getting the impression that they will pick up a Mosin and screw the barrel off and make them a conversion, myself included. Gotta have the right tools for barrel removal and installation and even then they can be a bear.

Joe

[Jumptrap]

I think it's about time that KCSO did a 'group rebarrel' project on all the Mosins we have laying around! Of course, KC, you'll have to do it for next to nothing...for the sake of the brotherhood.LOL!

So, you practice on yours and learn the tricks and then, we'll all send ours to be rebarreled, magazine tweaked, etc,.....thereafter, they can then be sent to Joe to sight in and proof and either accept or reject.

I think this sounds like an excellent idea!

Hmm, now to sit down and figure exactly what I want..30" octagon barrel.., Creedmoor sights, roller trigger, target bolt handle..with 1" ball knob...I'll gt back on the fine details...............

[StarMetal]

I second that motion. Sounds like a good idea to me too. I reckon I'll start shooting my 45-70 1886 carbine and get in shape for oncoming recoil attack.

I'm posting a website for all the variantcies in Mosin reveiver. Real good reading. The Ruskies made alot of changes on those rifles.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinReceivers.htm

Joe

[P Patcher]

I have a Winnie Hotchkiss in 45-70 and it looks just like a M/N in the design of the action. Although it feeds through the butttstock it makes for a neat 45-70 rifle. SOunds good to me!! I want one since I sold my Siamese this fall. BTW, a friend of mine shot one of the GIBBS rifles and said it hurt like Hell. moodyholler

moodyholler you have a pm

[Frank46]

Gents, there was an article some years back in the CBA magazine regarding a moisin nagant that was rebored to either 50-70 or some other 50 caliber cartridge. C.E.Harris once did an article whereby he had a mn rebarrelled to 348 winchester and I believe navy arms did at one time have portugese kropatscheks (try saying that three times fast) in 45-70.The mn in 50 caliber was done as a single shot and the author stated that recoil would let you know when enough is enough.Since most if not all of these cartridges have rims way bigger than the origional maybe it would be wise to purchase a spare bolt head just in case. I have a finnish reworked model 27 in 7.62x54R that won't be seeing any conversions, it just shoots too well. But I did remove a mn barrel from the action (bore was shot) by cutting a relief groove in front of the receiver and with a pipe wrench it screwed out. Hope this helps. Frank

[StarMetal]

Frank

Yeah that relief cut is an old gunsmith trick and in alot of instances it works. One place where it fails is a stubborm Mauser 98 barrel. Part of the reason for it's failure there is the Mauser has that inner collar so the barrel locks up in two places, the collar and the shoulder. Guess what....so do some Mosin Nagants...if you go to that neat website I posted here on variations in Mosin Nagant receivers it tells about ones that do and don't have that inner collar and alot of other interesting things.

Joe

[Frank46]

Starmetal, please post that site again, you got me interested. I never knew about the grease fitting screw. Anyway they are great rifles for the money. Lottsa fun to shoot too. Frank

[Herb in Pa]

Starmetal, please post that site again, you got me interested. I never knew about the grease fitting screw. Anyway they are great rifles for the money. Lottsa fun to shoot too. Frank

Look back at post #20 in this thread............

[StarMetal]

Im posting the main page of that Mosin site, which I think is an excellent site.

http://7.62x54r.net/

Frank

If you scroll down the list you will find Mosin Nagant Rifle Feature Comparisons - Page 1 (http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures.htm)

This is where the greasing screw is...near the bottom of that page.

Joe

[Frank46]

Joe, many thanks for the site. Frank

[Gaucho Gringo]

I realize this thread is a few years old, but did anyone actually re barrel their M\N? Just curious.

[nelsonted1]

So Am I!

[Junior1942]

+3 for just curious.

[Freightman]

I know a man well it is actually two men who build a 444 on the MN with great results. They also have a 50 cal that they call a short 50, but I hav seen them shoot that one, no thanks to much recoil for this old body.

[smokemjoe]

They was someone making them in 45-70 awhile back,I seen one in a gun store, Was a nice rifle, I been thinking I need to barrel one up in 41 Swiss, But the reamer cost is big. Smokemjoe

[trooperdan]

Well, I have a MN re-barrelled to .444 Marlin, using some kind of Marlin barrel! I bought it from some old bird in Texas that is a retired machinist that likes to tinker with guns, just to see if it could be done, then he sells his "creation". I bought it for $150 so i suspect that didn't cover his costs in time and materials!

Anyway, I haven't loaded any barn-burners, just plinking loads but I like it! It doesn't feed from the magazine reliably though.. that is a "round tuit" item for "one of these days".

[Freightman]

His first name wasn't Roy was it? if it was he still likes to tinker with guns, think I will go to his house and have him build me a single shot 444 out of a MN that I have that has a bad barrel.