burnt patches?

[Dirty Kurty]

Would someone please post pictures of properly spent 50 caliber patches. My patches are freyed and have holes in them..

[indian joe]

Would someone please post pictures of properly spent 50 caliber patches. My patches are freyed and have holes in them..

Dont have a picture handy but the body of the patch should be sound enough that you be able to use it again - any hole or tear at all is costing accuracy. If they frayed around the edges maybe they too small?

A thing to check is patch size
- too small and the ball can get skewey as you ram it and the patch not completely covering the side of the ball against the rifling-
- too big and the excess material at the front of the ball messes things up - cut a patch on the muzzle, then pull it, that is the best way to get the right size for a patch
for round cut patches - inch and a half is ideal for 50cal - inch and three quarters for 54 cal. Smaller you can make it work but have no margin for error setting the patch and ball straight and ramming true. I started my 54 with too small patches and got really frustrated - one or two stray shots (three inches out of the group at 100yds) in every string of ten - took ages and a lot of powder before I realised what was up - I cut one patch on the muzzle for a look see and that question was answered quick.
What material do you use ? If pillow ticking is burning - try drill, its about the same thickness but tougher - if all else fails put a wad on the powder then yr patched ball .
I have a 54 I used to shoot big loads in and I used a dry calico patch on the powder then the lubed patched ball over that - It worked, but that dry patch was a fire hazard on the range.

[arcticap]

Would someone please post pictures of properly spent 50 caliber patches. My patches are freyed and have holes in them..

This page has a photo of burned vs. unburned patches [shown below].--->>> https://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/9927-burnt-shredded-square-patches/

Note that the main differences between the patches were the type of powder being loaded and the lube.
Most folks say that the shape of the patch shouldn't matter.

243363

[Dirty Kurty]

243383The 4 on the top are from yesterday. Left to right first 3 were shot with 75 grains homemade catalpa charcoal.4th one willow charcoal same 75 grains all weighed and 1fg. Bottom 3 are what i could find today 100 grains 1fg. willow. Todays speeds. All of which grouped 3.5 inches at 75 yards. 243384

[Dirty Kurty]

Yesterday i had flyers. Today they all grouped.. Ill take that all day with homemade powder. 3f willow charcoal 3% dextrin pressed and corned. next powders will have no binders and............Wait for it "Alder Buckthorn" charcoal. 100 grains. Not worried about the patches right now.

[Dirty Kurty]

This page has a photo of burned vs. unburned patches [shown below].--->>> https://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/9927-burnt-shredded-square-patches/

Note that the main differences between the patches were the type of powder being loaded and the lube.
Most folks say that the shape of the patch shouldn't matter.

243363

Thank you Arcticap!

[indian joe]

Thank you Arcticap!

Worry about the patches!

Notice the burnt patches used bore butter (I detest that stuff) you didnt say what lube you are using ? try some moose milk (cutting oil and water 1:5) and your patches damp when you load --- if they still burn use an overpowder wad of some sort

[shortlegs]

Indian Joe,what kind/brand of cutting oil do you use and where do yuo buy it?

[TheOutlawKid]

Shortlegs i believe hes talking about balistol. Its good stuff...but ive now switched to Fluid Film which is made fron lanolin, not as a cutting oil but as an all in one lube and preserver/rust preventer.

[indian joe]

Shortlegs i believe hes talking about balistol. Its good stuff...but ive now switched to Fluid Film which is made fron lanolin, not as a cutting oil but as an all in one lube and preserver/rust preventer.

everyone raves about Ballistol ---I ve never seen the stuff - I use soluble cutting oil, same stuff as I use in the recirculate pump system on my lathe and mill - I think the drum says mobil - could be 20 years old . I think any soluble cutting oil would do ok.

[triggerhappy243]

and yes, this is with bore butter. your patches could be shredding............ being cut by sharp rifling. Or poor lube application.

[TheOutlawKid]

Indian joe...im not one who raves about it. Its ok...but just ok in my book. Others have great results...and it works but its not the hardest working. The cutting oil your using is probably alot better than balistol.

[arcticap]

One popular soluble cutting and grinding oil is NAPA 7651525 --->>> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/WLD7651525

This has been mentioned on the Shilo Rifle Forum, and other forums over the years. --->>> https://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14724&start=15

NAPA Auto Parts used to sell the same NAPA cutting oil in quarts, but I can only find another brand available in quarts at NAPA online which doesn't seem to have the same ingredients.
Not all soluble cutting and grinding oils are the same.
One poster on Shilo mentions mixing it 1 part distilled water to 4 parts oil for a milky solution.

[indian joe]

Indian joe...im not one who raves about it. Its ok...but just ok in my book. Others have great results...and it works but its not the hardest working. The cutting oil your using is probably alot better than balistol.

I'll tone that down a bit :D lot of guys talk about it (quite a bit) - not knockin ballistol at all I just never encountered it - and didnt yet feel the need to go search for it - I stumbled on something that works - dont lets waste good shootin time fixin what aint broke ....... also I am cheapskate and kinda cynical - always shied away from anything expensive in a small container on the basis the same stuff proly came from industry in a big container at a lot less price - that theory dont always work :)

[Rich/WIS]

About a month ago I bought NAPA cutting oil, got the one pint size. Think it was about $12. Wasn't in stock so they ordered it for me, only took two days to get it.

[waksupi]

I would try working up a load with commercial BP, to give yourself a baseline to work with your homemade powder. If you are using store bought thin muslin patches, I don't think they are worth a ****. Always start with a pillow ticking for a standard patch, and fit the ball to that. That should cure the problem, along with a proper lube like Moose Milk.

[arcticap]

About a month ago I bought NAPA cutting oil, got the one pint size. Think it was about $12. Wasn't in stock so they ordered it for me, only took two days to get it.

You're right, thanks.
I found the pint size by adding NAPA to the search name:--->>> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/WLD7651526?keywordInput=napa+cutting+oil

Part #: WLD 7651526 - NAPA Soluble Cutting And Grinding Oil - 16 ozs.

[Dirty Kurty]

[QUOTE=waksupi;4666150]I would try working up a load with commercial BP, to give yourself a baseline to work with your homemade powder. If you are using store bought thin muslin patches, I don't think they are worth a ****. Always start with a pillow ticking for a standard patch, and fit the ball to that. That should cure the problem, along with a proper lube like Moose Milk.[/QUOTEGreat advice and thank you...Round my region NAPA stands for Never Any Parts Available!

[Wayne Smith]

Dirty, the other cause of torn patches is a rough bore. Somethng to check, anyway.

[10 ga]

Pillow ticking or tough linen patches. Beeswax - deer or mutton tallow - grape seed or peanut oil. Adjust oil according to season for proper hardness of lube. Burnt patches is mostly a function of what material for patch. Cotton or linen will hardly ever burn. Possibly shred if rough bore or sharp rifling but not burn. If you want to see black powder charges burn go to real traditional wadding like hornet nest material or dried mullein leaves and heavy charges under buck -n- ball or shot loads, shouldering material and fire everywhere. Ask how I know. 10ga

[Edward]

Pillow ticking or tough linen patches. Beeswax - deer or mutton tallow - grape seed or peanut oil. Adjust oil according to season for proper hardness of lube. Burnt patches is mostly a function of what material for patch. Cotton or linen will hardly ever burn. Possibly shred if rough bore or sharp rifling but not burn. If you want to see black powder charges burn go to real traditional wadding like hornet nest material or dried mullein leaves and heavy charges under buck -n- ball or shot loads, shouldering material and fire everywhere. Ask how I know. 10ga
I understood the reason wasp nest was used was because it did not burn ,never has for me ./Ed

[waksupi]

Pillow ticking or tough linen patches. Beeswax - deer or mutton tallow - grape seed or peanut oil. Adjust oil according to season for proper hardness of lube. Burnt patches is mostly a function of what material for patch. Cotton or linen will hardly ever burn. Possibly shred if rough bore or sharp rifling but not burn. If you want to see black powder charges burn go to real traditional wadding like hornet nest material or dried mullein leaves and heavy charges under buck -n- ball or shot loads, shouldering material and fire everywhere. Ask how I know. 10ga

Beeswax (Bore Butter) is not good in a bore. It builds up, and grabs fouling.

[Tasbay]

With My CVA 58cal, it was burning patches with120gr homebrew. Backed off to 100grains and presto, still hitting about the same place at 100yds but tighter groups. Fired 4 shots yesterday, 2 touching at 50yds with.570 pure lead and 2 touching at 100yds with .562 wheel weight balls (it seems to love wheel weight). Fired 1 shot at 100yds with .570 soft lead and hit level and a couple of inches to the left, actually about smack centre of the target. Now to be honest I don`t expect to be able to do that again any time soon.

[indian joe]

Pillow ticking or tough linen patches. Beeswax - deer or mutton tallow - grape seed or peanut oil. Adjust oil according to season for proper hardness of lube. Burnt patches is mostly a function of what material for patch. Cotton or linen will hardly ever burn. Possibly shred if rough bore or sharp rifling but not burn. If you want to see black powder charges burn go to real traditional wadding like hornet nest material or dried mullein leaves and heavy charges under buck -n- ball or shot loads, shouldering material and fire everywhere. Ask how I know. 10ga

we too easy forget or assume stuff !!!! Nobody uses cloth patches that are not 100% cotton or linen .......or do they?? I didnt ask I just assumed the op knew this ? maybe he didnt or forgot to check the roll it came from .....looking again at those patches they look more burnt in the middle than blown or jagged if there is a mix of synthetic (polyester/cotton) they not gonna work - hey also mighty thin for a heavy charge

[725]

What waksupi said....................

Also, is there any indication that the sharp edged rifling is cutting the patch? If newly machined sharp edges hang up on the patch, a little lapping of the bore is in order. Several hundred passes with a tight cloth wad dressed with Flitz.

[indian joe]

Beeswax (Bore Butter) is not good in a bore. It builds up, and grabs fouling.

yes!!!

[TheOutlawKid]

I cant stand bore butter. IMO its not a good preserver or rust preventer..or even a lube for that matter, atleast not down in deep south texas where its hot and humid all year long. Others have had great results but its not for me. I also dont believe it "seasons" the bore...again just my opinion.

[waksupi]

I cant stand bore butter. IMO its not a good preserver or rust preventer..or even a lube for that matter, atleast not down in deep south texas where its hot and humid all year long. Others have had great results but its not for me. I also dont believe it "seasons" the bore...again just my opinion.

It definitely does not season a bore. It's not cast iron, it's steel!

[bigted]

Heard tell about mixing soluble oil n water ... soaking patch's in it ... then allowing them to dry for a oiled patch practically dry.

Anybody done this?

[Tasbay]

Heard tell about mixing soluble oil n water ... soaking patch's in it ... then allowing them to dry for a oiled patch practically dry.

Anybody done this?

Yep Balistol and water. 1 part Balistol & 7 parts water. Mine still burned patches though. I haven`t tried it since I backed off from 120gr powder to 100gr. I`m using olive oil, just enough to dampen the patches and that works for me. Balistol is inconsistent in obtaining down here.

[rfd]

moose milk = water soluble oil and water. some will add in hydrogen peroxide and/or soap (which is the original Dutch Shoultz MM formula), and i would never add in those ingredients. water soluble oil can be ballistol or NAPA or any similar substitute.

as to the ratio of oil and water, that can be whatever works best for a particular gun and load.

MM can be used wet or allowed to dry on the patches or patch strips. if going dry, it's important to allow the patches or patch strips lie level so that the mm saturation is evenly distributed along the patch cloth.

dry MM patching was developed by Dutch primarily for target use in percussion rifles, using tight patched ball loads and a complimentary fouling procedure. it may not be for everyone. been there, done that, that system isn't for me. c'est la vie. ymmv.

MM is, however, good for fouling control on a patch or patch/brush combo and i use a 1:6 mix of ballistol:water. if it applies to your gun type, just remember that those offshore trad ml's have patent breeches that need special fouling control and cleaning attention.

[indian joe]

moose milk = water soluble oil and water. some will add in hydrogen peroxide and/or soap (which is the original Dutch Shoultz MM formula), and i would never add in those ingredients. water soluble oil can be ballistol or NAPA or any similar substitute.

as to the ratio of oil and water, that can be whatever works best for a particular gun and load.

MM can be used wet or allowed to dry on the patches or patch strips. if going dry, it's important to allow the patches or patch strips lie level so that the mm saturation is evenly distributed along the patch cloth.

dry MM patching was developed by Dutch primarily for target use in percussion rifles, using tight patched ball loads and a complimentary fouling procedure. it may not be for everyone. been there, done that, that system isn't for me. c'est la vie. ymmv.

MM is, however, good for fouling control on a patch or patch/brush combo and i use a 1:6 mix of ballistol:water. if it applies to your gun type, just remember that those offshore trad ml's have patent breeches that need special fouling control and cleaning attention.



MM works great for me - shoot forever without fouling - but thats shooting damp on the range and we need a clean string of 12 at least in a half hour to 45 minutes -- hunting is different - a few shots only, first shot is the money shot, heavier charges, proly need an overpowder wad plus the oil or greasy patch ball

[triggerhappy243]

I cant stand bore butter. IMO its not a good preserver or rust preventer..or even a lube for that matter, atleast not down in deep south texas where its hot and humid all year long. Others have had great results but its not for me. I also dont believe it "seasons" the bore...again just my opinion.

TheOutlawKid, you just struck an interesting point. Stating deep south texas. Humid you bet your sweet bippy. So it seems the ambient humidity percentages has more to do with Borebutter failing us smoke pole shooters than those willing to admit. Here in NM, the humidity is on the dry/low side. Something else I am seeing is what mineral content is in the water in different parts of the country contributing to the rust/pitting issues associated with the use of Pyrodex. We all know salts in any form contribute to rust...... be it flash rust or balls to the wall gouging rust/pitting.

Has anyone experimented with long term barrel care using only Distilled Water? Inquiring minds want to know.

[rfd]

... Has anyone experimented with long term barrel care using only Distilled Water? Inquiring minds want to know.

there is no need for distilled water and trad muzzleloaders. there is no need for any commercial or DIY "cleaning" concoctions. plain tepid tap water is all that's needed for cleaning out the tube and lock - but ONLY if the gun has been well maintained. screw up once and don't clean it well or at all and you WILL need concoctions to remedy the evil your procrastination has created towards your beloved muzzy. once cleaned, oil the metal with any manner of good and proper oil. for long term storage i leave a heavily oiled patched rod down the bore and resting on the breech plug.

[triggerhappy243]

rfd, the reason I posted this comment, is because I have learned recently that some people's water supply has some sulfur content. Some have minute salt content.

[rfd]

rfd, the reason I posted this comment, is because I have learned recently that some people's water supply has some sulfur content. Some have minute salt content.

for the purpose of fouling control or cleaning, ain't gonna matter at all. just look at what's in most "powder solvents" these dayze, and maybe what they don't tell ya is in that stuff. the act of cleaning out a trad muzzy don't need to be made out to be rocket science. my house water softener system is salt based and i've had zero effects of using just that water to clean out trad muzzys for the last 30+ years. this is a transient use of water and it's always followed up with oil. it's not like the metal will be left standing indefinitely in straight water that has traces of salt or sulphur or whatever.

it's both the pre-cleaning and final cleaning procedures that are most important.

i employ a 1:6 moose milk solution for fouling control at the range (IF need be). after the last shot of the day i liberally run a few wet MM patches down the bore with a jagged ramrod (and if it's an offshore trad ml i'll switch to a patch draped brush to get into the ante-chamber for all fouling and cleaning processes), spray the lock with MM, then i'll leave a sloppy wet MM patched rod in the tube during the trip back home - this keeps all the BP residue soft. the final cleaning is to butt stand a pinned barrel trad muzzy, plug the touch hole with a toothpick and 3/4 fill it with plain tepid tap water. while it's standing i pull the lock and dunk it in a pot of plain tepid tap water. the barrel water is dumped and the bore is swabbed with MM saturated patches - only takes a few - then dry patches then a straight oiled wet patch and it's done. the lock is tooth brushed, rinsed, shaken off, excess water removed with paper towels, MM or wd40 sprayed wet, excess removed with paper towels, bearing surfaces lightly oiled, lock goes back on, done. it should be noted that non-toxic water soluble oils like ballistol are good for the wood, so whatever MM or straight oil spills onto the stock wood is not a problem, it's a good thing. i like ballistol a lot and use it to clean/lube all my guns - handguns, rifles, shotguns. life is good.

[rfd]

FWIW, in the matter of MM ball patching, either damp or dry, using tap water that might contain traces of salt or other corrosive compounds - i did a LOT of testing with these kinda patches per the dutch regimen and never had any metal issues as a result. i tested with both distilled water and water softener salted water. MM ratios varied from 1:4 to 1:10. i tested at least 70 of each flavor of patching over a period of a week, about 4 or 5 years ago. there were no ill gun metal effects for using both types of water. as to using wet or dry MM for patch lubing, not my cup of tea and went back to gato feo or straight tallow. ymmv.

[GregLaROCHE]

Does anyone use cream of wheat on top of powder ?

[rfd]

Does anyone use cream of wheat on top of powder ?

for a trad muzzleloader? like, why?? for what reason???

[indian joe]

FWIW, in the matter of MM ball patching, either damp or dry, using tap water that might contain traces of salt or other corrosive compounds - i did a LOT of testing with these kinda patches per the dutch regimen and never had any metal issues as a result. i tested with both distilled water and water softener salted water. MM ratios varied from 1:4 to 1:10. i tested at least 70 of each flavor of patching over a period of a week, about 4 or 5 years ago. there were no ill gun metal effects for using both types of water. as to using wet or dry MM for patch lubing, not my cup of tea and went back to gato feo or straight tallow. ymmv.


I like the mm for patch lube ----on the range----never tried straight tallow, I reckon it be better for hunting tho ......dunno why so many think shooting and cleaning these ML's is hard it not the case at all . they easy . just gotta do it is all.

[waksupi]

Does anyone use cream of wheat on top of powder ?

I've used it in revolvers over the powder, rather than greasing the chambers. I was able to shoot more cylinders before the gun would tie up with fouling. I see no use for it in a long gun.

[arcticap]

Does anyone use cream of wheat on top of powder ?


for a trad muzzleloader? like, why?? for what reason???

I don't use it.
But I recall seeing some competition single shot pistol shooters use semolina as a filler which is similar to cream of wheat.
It's like using a wool wad as a gas check.
Also for other possible reasons depending on the needs of the gun and the shooter.

[GregLaROCHE]

for a trad muzzleloader? like, why?? for what reason???

I’m living in France now. Here everyone uses it. Maybe semolina is a more correct term. Equal volume as powder poured on top of powder. I suppose it is to make a seal in place of a wad. If using a patch or not. No lube is used except saliva on a patch.

I’m talking about smooth bore. I can’t say about rifled barrels. These guys are real competitors. National Champions.

I’m just starting out and get most of my info from this forum. It seems so strange that two different methods are used in two different parts of the world.

[rfd]

packing on top of a pistol ball, sure - but a lubed wad or grease, nothing dry.

greglaroche - i dunno of anyone mixing grits with bp for a long gun here in the states, it's all patches and/or wads. or since it's a smoothie, does it have something to do with a shot load? maybe you euros can learn us about that.

[GregLaROCHE]

What are you meaning “shot load”? Amount of powder? I know they use a lot less than what the gun originally used.

[GregLaROCHE]

Maybe you were referring to bird or buck shot. Everyone is using round balls. The other thing is they don’t seem to pack them that tight. The ball and patch can easily be pushed down. Not like a lot of what I see being done on YouTube.

[rfd]

Maybe you were referring to bird or buck shot. Everyone is using round balls. The other thing is they don’t seem to pack them that tight. The ball and patch can easily be pushed down. Not like a lot of what I see being done on YouTube.

so ... charging with black powder, then with something non-powder like cream-of-wheat or semolina meal, then easily pushing down a ball to seat ... and this becomes a match winning load for at least a fair number of shooters?

is any lube used??

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ll double check on the lube, but I think only some saliva. I remember when I asked about lube, they said it just gunked up the barrel. I always thought the semolina was to make a seal. Maybe it cleans the bore from the previous shot too.

[rfd]

how do they keep the fouling soft - swab between firings?

better yet, what exactly are their load and firing processes from shot to shot?

[Dirty Kurty]

it sounds as if everything from spit to lard to machine coolant has been tried. Im gonna try Snuggles Fabric softener, 9-1 ratio while shirt ticking.. Maybe then Wifey won't be discouraged by the smell....9 parts distilled water to softener....

[GregLaROCHE]

how do they keep the fouling soft - swab between firings?

better yet, what exactly are their load and firing processes from shot to shot?

I’m going to my club tomorrow night and I’ll ask some direct questions and report back.

[triggerhappy243]

perhaps it is overkill, but I have used t/c #13 dampening a cleaning patch and swab between every shot. also use hoppes black powder solvent to dampen a patch.

[GregLaROCHE]

Ok. I confirmed that for the top competitions, in France, everyone loads BP by volume and the same volume of semolina, then a patch moistened mostly by putting it in their mouth, then the ball and everything is rammed home three or four times. No powder is put in the touch hole and very little priming powder. Everyone uses Swiss powder.

They don’t swab between shots, but a moistened patch around a ball must do close the same thing as Swabbing. I’ve heard some use water and dish detergent to moisten patches too.

I mentioned before that the balls weren't forced in. I didn’t mean they just dropped in, but could be pushed down without tapping.

I’ve heard that the new thing is loading balls the same diameter as the bore and not using patches. Not that most are doing it, but some top shooters are saying they get good results.

Might be interesting to try some of these semolina rounds without lube and see how they group.

I hope this confirms what I was saying before and maybe gives someone some new ideas.

[rfd]

Ok. I confirmed that for the top competitions, in France, everyone loads BP by volume and the same volume of semolina, then a patch moistened mostly by putting it in their mouth, then the ball and everything is rammed home three or four times. No powder is put in the touch hole and very little priming powder. Everyone uses Swiss powder.

They don’t swab between shots, but a moistened patch around a ball must do close the same thing as Swabbing. I’ve heard some use water and dish detergent to moisten patches too.

I mentioned before that the balls weren't forced in. I didn’t mean they just dropped in, but could be pushed down without tapping.

I’ve heard that the new thing is loading balls the same diameter as the bore and not using patches. Not that most are doing it, but some top shooters are saying they get good results.

Might be interesting to try some of these semolina rounds without lube and see how they group.

I hope this confirms what I was saying before and maybe gives someone some new ideas.

to confirm, this is solely for smoothbores and not rifled barrels?

it sounds like the semolina "wad" is doing a bore scrub.

an interesting perspective that's at least worth trialing.

[indian joe]

Ok. I confirmed that for the top competitions, in France, everyone loads BP by volume and the same volume of semolina, then a patch moistened mostly by putting it in their mouth, then the ball and everything is rammed home three or four times. No powder is put in the touch hole and very little priming powder. Everyone uses Swiss powder.

They don’t swab between shots, but a moistened patch around a ball must do close the same thing as Swabbing. I’ve heard some use water and dish detergent to moisten patches too.

I mentioned before that the balls weren't forced in. I didn’t mean they just dropped in, but could be pushed down without tapping.

I’ve heard that the new thing is loading balls the same diameter as the bore and not using patches. Not that most are doing it, but some top shooters are saying they get good results.

Might be interesting to try some of these semolina rounds without lube and see how they group.

I hope this confirms what I was saying before and maybe gives someone some new ideas.

Dunno what creme of wheat is or looks like but semolina as we see it is lil grits maybe a mm size maybe a tad bigger - its made from high protein durham wheat so the likely both work similar in a barrel ?
We shot semolina filler in pistols for a good while - worked good but I never liked the idea - plus fiddling around with two flasks.
This just might be a real good trick for heavy hunting loads????

[GregLaROCHE]

Semolina is the stuff they are using, not cream of wheat.0

[GregLaROCHE]

I know this is for smooth bore. I can’t say that they don’t use it in rifled bores. I didn’t ask. It could work too. I get more info on that next time.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

cream of wheat acts likes a felt wad, protects the patch, helps seal up excessive gasses, protects the base of conical bullets, etc. Its cheaper than wads but much slower to reload with imo. Doesnt matter if its smoothbore or rifled, you may benefit from either the cream of wheat or wad as far as accuracy goes. When I start shooting hotter loads and get those little tiny burn holes in the patch, down goes a wad, then the patched round ball. Keeps that patch nicely protected.

[TheOutlawKid]

Triggerhappy....everytime i clean my guns only distilled water is used due to our tap water being so full of nasty stuff...lots of solids and a stinky sulfur smell some times. No one drinks the water down here. Any time i have experimented with different mixes that included water...distilled water was used. I havw many spray bottles filled with different experiments i tried as cleaners. It doesnt take a lot of water or cleaner to clean a gun. Ive tried balistol and water mixes, dawn dishsoap with water etc....LA Awesome was the best that has ever worked and even cleaned some white plastic/vinyl pipe cleaners that had been made permanently blackened from black powder fouling mixed with oils and fats. Dawn wouldnt clean them all that well..tried other cleaners...then tried brake cleaner and it helped clean them brushes up a bit but they werent pristine clean...then i tried a cleaner called "LA Awesome" found at Dollar stores, it cleaned the brushes back to perfectly white again. Now i have a small spray bottle that is 50/50 LA Awesome and water. It cuts through fouling and grime extremely well but is gentle on steel, bluing, and skin. And for my lube and rust preventer and preserver i have switched to a product called Fluid Film made from lanolin and contains no solvents and is all natural and worka great witj black powder guns. I tried cleaning one gun with nothing but Fluid..no water or cleaner...just some patches and bore brush with fluid film and i had no rust whatsoever and thats cuz i was using homemade percussion caps that are corrosive. Not a speck of rust anywhere. I always thought water was needed to clean the salts away...but.fluid film worked cleaning it all away. I let that gun sit for weeks testing it and nothing...kept using it and with homemade corrosive caps and only cleaning with fluid film and i have yet to see rust. But that was just a test to see how good it works. But as for my regular routine i clean with 50/50 LA Awesome with distilled water then lube/preserve with Fluid Film. Check those two items out guys...i highly recommend.

[TheOutlawKid]

Oh...also for a good patch lube i use raw shea butter. Its a fatty buttery oil that comes from a nut. Its used in cosmetics and lotions for dry skin etc...its amazing as a lube. Only use the raw form...i still have a brick of the stuff..mixes well with waxes and other oils etc if you want to make a bullet lube. Its actually my secret ingredient for my lubes i use on my guns. Ive only read of a few people using it for guns and they had major success..one guy on reddit used it in his 9mm with great success too but his would have worked better had he added beeswax. But it works great by itself on patches and any black powder lube recipe

[indian joe]

Semolina is the stuff they are using, not cream of wheat.0

yeah got that Greg but a lot of the US fellers talk of creme o wheat ?

[Dirty Kurty]

SO I STill would like to see some more pictures of """BURNT PATCHES""" my buckthorn alder finally caught up with my willow . 2042 fps. nothing left of patches..Pictures to follow.

[Dirty Kurty]

244000100 grains FFg Buckthorn Alder. Destroyed the patches. And faster than Swiss..

[arcticap]

This shooter was loading with 777 and determined that he needed more lube on his patches.
It didn't solve the entire problem but it helped to prevent most of it.
He increased the amount of Ballistol in proportion to the amount of water to 5:1.--->>> https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442323

244001

[indian joe]

This shooter was loading with 777 and determined that he needed more lube on his patches.
It didn't solve the entire problem but it helped to prevent most of it.
He increased the amount of Ballistol in proportion to the amount of water to 5:1.--->>> https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442323

244001

I tried dry moose milk patches - pretty much got the result yr lookin at here - damp patches at the range work way better

[GregLaROCHE]

yeah got that Greg but a lot of the US fellers talk of creme o wheat ?

I think semolina has a lot bigger grains if I remember. It’s been a long time since I ate cream of wheat.

[indian joe]

244000100 grains FFg Buckthorn Alder. Destroyed the patches. And faster than Swiss..

Them patches are wrecked!!! Lots of argument here about whether they is burnt or blown or cut (I am backing burnt/blown) ---if you are loading dried out patches over 100grains of any decent powder - you are getting the result I would expect...........prove the point by loading either a backer patch or a wad between powder and patched ball ....and shoot damp patches. If you are cutting the patches loading they will still come out at least a bit wrecked - if they come out whole then you know it aint the barrel its the load.
FWIW and contrary to some opinions you can get an accurate load without having to belt it downbore with a mallet.
(The olde timers loaded with a slim wooden ramrod try bashing one of those with a hammer and see how well it works)

[Dirty Kurty]

Not cut. I made this a inline . i can push straight thru and no holes.

[Dirty Kurty]

Ox yoke prelubed .010.

[indian joe]

Ox yoke prelubed .010.

yeah - dry lubed patches over a stout load = expected result achieved :-D-----change it !
1) damp moose milk pillow ticking patch - might work
2) put a 1inch backer patch down on the powder before you ram the patched ball - will fix it but you gotta be careful to put it down square (I use a plain 1/4 inch ramrod end) and that dry backer patch is a fire hazard if you are hunting or the range is dry grass.
3) a wad over the charge (card or LDPE) I bet would work but not done it myself

[Fly]

Two things you might try. First it is hard to beat pillow ticking, it worked back in the day & still does today. I use nothing but 3fffg in all my muzzle loaders
& cap & ball revolvers, 2ffg for my shot gun. Works for me.

Fly

[Dirty Kurty]

I will be trying ox yoke .015 soaked and squeezed with Fabric softener in a couple of hours. I believe it might work wonders.

[Black Powder Bill]

It definitely does not season a bore. It's not cast iron, it's steel!

MY GOD, thank you I see someone else says this too!

bpb

[Dirty Kurty]

O.k. now ill be testing the fabric softener lube in a few...TBC.

[Fly]

With the fps your getting & the patches you showing, I think you may be using to much load for the rifle your shooting.
Accuracy is more important than how much power & fps. If you can't hit what your shooting at. With a 50 cal round ball
shooting comps & 1 in 66 twist my most accurate load in 50 to 60 grains of 3fffg. Hunting deer same rifle 70 grains. Never
had a problem taking down a deer with a accurate placed shot. Dead is dead no matter how fast the shot. Wild Bill killed
more men with his 36 cal revolvers than more powerful 44 revolvers.

jmohop Fly

[Dirty Kurty]

Oh. heck no Fly. I'll be using 75grains for hunting.. Just like the Small Block Chevelle.. best e.t. 12.86 with street tires. ran 13.55 consistently and put quite a few on the trailer. I'm just having fun putting Swiss powder on the trailer.. Also I am looking for the bullet patch combo in the meantime.. sorry but I cant get patch pictures to load