Considering bottom-pour pot - need insight from Forum Members

[JackQuest]

SHORT STORY:

Have been a ladle kind of guy for the last 50 years. I've ignored the bottom pour pots all these years. My old SAECO pot will some day die beyond my skills to resurrect.

So I'm looking for input from users of bottom pour pots. I would like to know if there are other brands besides RCBS PRO MELT 2 and LYMAN MAG 25 bottom pour pots. What are the unique problems of each brand? If you have one brand and want another, why?

I know about the Lyman mould racks not working with other brands of mould blocks despite their advertising. I understand the RCBS can be a dripper. What other problems are common?


LONG STORY:

I have a 20 pound SAECO pot (new to me 50 years ago). It's followed me across the country in the Navy and beyond. I've sourced and replaced the heating element, have gone to a variable speed controller from Harbor Freight to replace the bi-metallic flat spring heat control, and use a remote reading infrared 'gun' style thermometer to check running temps.

Today melted down something less than 100 lbs of various alloys from my bro-in-law. Got done working on the garage floor set things up to run my (new to me) Lyman 356404 4 cavity, stepped in the house for lunch, came back out, pot is getting cold.

Ohmmeter proves it's not the cheap Harbor Freight variable speed controller; it's continuity through the heating element. Working through the rusted screws and sheet metal it turns out the crimp lug had failed again at the crimp to the power cord. 20 minutes of submariner repairs and it's ready to use again (for who knows how long ?).

Wife says I need to be ready to replace the SAECO!!! I might cast more with a bottom-pour pot, I might not. Not sure I want to start over learning and correcting a new batch of problems like the RCBS dripping and the Lyman racks that don't work with other moulds. Just looking for professional forum-level input on which pot is "best" (yes, I know, it's a 4 letter word).

[Bazoo]

I'll start things off right and suggest staying with a ladle system. Ive not used any of the fancier pots but I've used a couple of the lee 10 pound drippers. I am now using a lee magnum melter 20 pound ladle pot. Lots of folks like their 20 pound dripper, but I ain't used it. I figured out I prefer ladle casting so I might as well just stick to it.

[Winger Ed.]

I use a RCBS pro melt.

Its fine when it's on good behavior.
When the spout gets dirty and it drips, it can be rather aggravating to clean out.

If it ever dies, I think I'll go to a ladle pour pot since the ladle seems like it would be much easier to clean,
and the pot won't ever drip.

[Mitch]

I have an RCBS Pro Melt.lee 4-20 an a leed 20 dipper pots.i have cat a lot of bullets with the lee bottom pour.and it worked pretty good for a long time and still does.do like the RCBS Pro Melt the best of the 2 bottom pour pots.the lee dipper pot works just fine.i run all 3 with a PID.

now my question is how big weight wise or length of bullets are you planning on casting?I use the dipper for long bullets and for heavy bullets say 300gr plus and something like 30cal rifle bullets.you can not beat the ladel casting the big bullets.now for my 45 and 38 pistol bullets I can as realy nice from the bottom pour pots.I am leaning more tward ladel casting more all the time.If you are use to ladle casting you may not be happy with the bottom pour.i can cast better or purdy bullets from the ladle lol. why change uless after 50 years of casting you are having problems getting the job done and need the bottom pour to help you out?

[Burnt Fingers]

I've got a Pro-Melt and a Pro-Melt II.

If you like using a ladle then just get a Waage?

[georgerkahn]

I feel your pain in deciding! For what it's worth, I was in a similar predicament years back, and stumbled upon a very used Lyman Mould Master pot; bottom pour, with a thermostat, and its fault being the 110VAC plug mates through what appears to be mica, which was broken. I took a cord from a surplus electric percolator, and soldered it to the pot's wires. Bingo! It worked quite nicely for perhaps 20 years of casting til the thermostat disintegrated. I shorted this out of circuit, and bought a PID from a seller on this sight. It works better than new! At age 71, I have stacks of (free) laminate flooring samples from Home Depot and Lowes, which I simply stack beneath the pour spout to provide perfect distance to fill the mould cavities. I had the metal mould guides, but the stacked samples works soooo much better. Quite regularly these (Mould Master) appear on eBay at more than reasonable prices... I can not speak badly about my two (I was so impressed I picked up a 2nd :) ).
Good luck!
geo

[country gent]

I pour shorter lighter pistol bullets with a bottom pour pot and my big long BPCR bullets with a bigger ladle pour pot for 2 main reasons. 1) the lighter bullets and the 20 lb pot make a decent run of keepers for me and a rest when refilling is needed. 2) the bottom pour has the flow to fill them while all is still molten. When casting the big long bullets a 550 grn bullet roughly 1.4" long really empties the 20lb pot fast and the ladle gives a faster fill with less heat loss in the material pouring the long bullets. My 20 lb bottom pour is a electric pot and does good for what its used for. My ladle pot holds 130lbs of lead and is gas fired. The big pot holds temps well and runs long when casting the big bullets.

Take some time and analyze your casting needs and wants. Make a list of your specs. Then decide on what to do

[GhostHawk]

Magnum Melter by Lee rocks. I traded off my drip o matic 40 years ago and won't get another. Ladle guy till I die.

[StuBach]

If your a Saeco guy why not try and find an old Saeco bottom pour if the 10lb pot is enough for you? I started with a 60 year old one when I started casting and it still works great.

I have upgraded my Saeco to a Lee Drip-O-Matic Strictly for the size but it has not really dripped on my yet and just got a ProMelt 1 and have been happy with all though I do like the mold guide on the ProMelt for my MP molds (haven’t tried the old HG and Ideals yet but expect they will do fine as well).

No matter what though a PiD is a wonderful thing when running a bottom pour. Find the sweet spot on temp for a particular mold and write it down, than your good to go every time.

[Conditor22]

You keep the alloy clean, flux well before feeding the pot. This will eliminate most drips.

I've found no need to change from the Lee 4-20, thousands of pounds cast.

IF you want to pay more, go with RCBS, Lyman has gotten flakey and outsourced. their warranty was nonexistent and customer service was deplorable. They may be trying to get back to where they were but I"m reserving my business until I see bigger changes.

My 2 ¢

[JackQuest]

Thanks for the replies! The Forum comes through, again!

Used to cast a lot of .44 Mag and .45 ACP in 4 cavity, not so much these days. Cast 180 gr RN GC for the SOCOM, and still developing loads for that. Ladle casting seems the right way to go for 2 cavities. Blocks get up to temperature quickly.

Now casting mostly 9mm for .380 ACP. Takes time to get the mould blocks up to heat, and need to tinker a little with tin content, but when it gets to the right temp then good old ladle casting is my answer.

Very much appreciate the years of experience being shared here.

[country gent]

If its not broke, How do you really "fix" it then. I get good results with the ladle and it offers some advantages bottom pours don't. I like to "over fill" moulds letting excess run back into pit wit te ladle this is a measured thing 1 full ladle poured in sprue hole till ladle is empty keeping everything molten and hot the same each pour.

[Rich/WIS]

Started with a Lyman Model 61(?), and the a SAECO 24. Used a LEE 10# in an emergency, had a LYMAN 20# whose model I forget and now have a LEE 20#. All worked well, especially the 10# Lyman and SAECO, the Lyman 20# not so much and the LEE 20# is what I have been using for the 8-10 years. Did modify the LEE to use the Lyman mold guide and made a few covers for the rails with flashing tin to work with bigger molds. All dripped to some extent but if kept clean and with clean alloy it was never an issue. Found best lube for the rod the flow control rides on was hi-temp copper anti-seize, which also works well under the sprue plate at it's pivot point and stop screw on LEE 6 cavity molds.

[44magLeo]

If you buy a bottom pour and you don't like it you can just plug the spout, remove the handle and rod. This leaves you with a good ladle pot.
That's how Lee does it. Same pot, one with no spout the other with one.
You might find a Lee pot used somewhere with a bad thermostat and the owner is selling because he doesn't want to fix it.
Build of Buy a PID controller, remove the bad thermostat, wire the cord straight to the heating element, plug into PID and good to go.
As I said If you don't like the spout. With the pot empty remove handle and rod. tip upside down, remove the base.
Thread the spout for a screw or bolt. Screw in the screw or bolt. Might have to drill it out some to get a thread to fit.
Put the base back on. Tip right side up.
Now you have a Ladle pot.
Leo

[flyingmonkey35]

every bottom pour pot will drip eventually.

I've been using a Lee drip-o-matic for the past 7 years.

I have to drain it clean it. take Emery cloth to the rod and it stops again for a while.

I bought a PID tuner years ago. and have never had to worry about the perfect temp.

I use a cut 2x4 for my mold guide and I can crank them out.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[kens]

I also have the Lee 'drip-o-matic'.
Some days it works like a dream, some days, it wants to drip.
Some days I cast with no culls all day.
Some days I cannot pour a good bullet all day
No days do I feel the need to spend 4x the money over the Lee bottom pour pot to get a RCBS or Lyman.

[Bazoo]

What country gent said about pouring a ladle full over the mould helps a lot to get good fillout and keep a cold natured mould to temperature.

[Hahndorf1874]

Have two Pro Melts,Lino in one 20/1 in other, bottom pour in smaller cals. Turn the pot around ,place is on a lower table,bench, and ladle ,best of both worlds.

Cheers Mal in au.

[JackQuest]

I notice that no one has commented about a Magma Master pot. Current price on their webpage is $600, basically twice the price of RCBS or Lyman. Is it worth that cost? I'm not casting on a daily basis; in the past I've gone a couple of years at a time between long casting sessions.

Any insight out there?

[lightman]

I've had a ProMelt for 30 something years and have been happy with it. It very seldom drips and its been an easy fix when it has. If it ever dies and I can't repair it I'll look real hard at a Magma pot.

[Smoke4320]

Went thru at least 4 lee 4-20 pots. All leaked no matter what i tryed.
Got a RCBS pro melt added a PID have been for years now

[AnthonyB]

JackQuest; I have a Magma I stumbled on for a very low price. It is the 90lb version and is overkill for me. As you described your casting, I believe it would be for you as well. Tony

[Bigslug]

The progression in the family foundry has been:

Lyman Mag 20 (a real bad dripper. It's now the emergency backup to the emergency backup)

RCBS Pro Melt (MUCH better, much less-drippy pot)

RCBS Pro Melt II (for dedicated use with non-lead hunting alloys)

Use a separate PID to control temp on all three.

The factory mold racks I've largely dispensed with. Found a large aluminum block to slide the molds across and control height by adding or subtracting thin strips of "box" plywood underneath

A bottom pour is going to drip to some degree at some time. No big deal - I pick up a small stalagmite from under the mold guide every few minutes and toss it back in the pot, or just use the mold to bump it off the aluminum block and move on. To my mind, it is still far preferable to the slow, three-handed PITA juggling act that is ladle casting, and bottom pour is just more streamlined & productive - especially when you kick up the cavity count. Ladles for me are the final nuclear/biological/chemical option that is to be avoided if at all possible - I'll FIND a way rather than resort to spoon-feeding my molds.

My suggestion is go RCBS. I suspect you'll find it solves all your problems, but if you still find ladles to be in any way preferable - such as for filling the huge, single-cavity, buffalo rifle molds - get yourself a dedicated ladle pot. The reason for this is that the spigot hardware - especially when combined with any extra temperature control hardware you may add - gets in the way of going in and out with the ladle for every pour.

[gwpercle]

I started casting in 1967 with a dipper . Listened to all the great talk about bottom pour and bought a Lee 10# bottom pour. Discovered I could make a lot more second rate boolits with the bottom pour ...trouble is I don't want second rate.... I want perfect boolits , well filled out ,no voids , no imperfections . Pressure casting with a ladle worked better for me . A sale at Midway prompted a new 20# magnum melter and new Lyman ladle .
Best move I ever made . Considered plugging the 10# bottom holes but realized I needed a larger pot even if ladle casting .
After buying the 20 # Magnum Melter , Bazoo , see post # 2 , said he could use it , ( had lost his equiptment in a fire) so I sent it to him , now I see he's going back to the open top and ladle like I did .
My solution to casting is a big 20 # pot and a ladle , pressure casting gives me better boolits .
Gary

[DerekP Houston]

RCBS Pro-melt version 1 for me with a PID from a forum builder. I had the standard lee drip-o-matic and while I could fix it for awhile nothing did long term. Rcbs drips very rarely and usually caused by me putting dirty lead and not skimming enough.

[Springfield]

I have 2 RCBS Pro-Melts and a Magma 40 lb pot. Noe of them drip. The Magma is for the bulk of my shooting, one RCBS is for pure lead for balls and such, and the other is for harder rifle bullets. I started with LEE 10 and then 20 lb pots, but once I got the RCBS they went away. But I cast a of of bullets every month, as 4 of us in the family shoot Cowboy Action shoots every month, sometimes I go 2-3 times. So volume is important to me. We don't do any precision long range shooting, so the bullets don't have to be within .1 of a grain or anything like that. And I don't have that much spare time so I need to get a lot of bullets cast/sized/lubed and not take all day. All 3 of my pots are connected to a PID.
I always tell people, if you use a progressive reloader, then you need an RCBS or Magma. If you load on a single stage, then you don't really need the larger pot for the volume. Pretty simple.

[Andy]

I had a lee 4-20 and now have the rcbs pro melt, the lee dripped at first then I honed the spout and it didn't drip for a year, then started dripping again, albeit slower. Held temp ok (50 degree fluctuation) until you got within 1/3 of the bottom then would fluctuate too much. RCBS holds more steady (maybe 25 degrees fluctuation until 1/4 full) and actually holds about 25lbs. Nicer sturdier setup all around on the RCBS but the lee is probably the "best value" in that it does work and you can overcome its issues fairly easily. I kind of wish i had kept the lee to leave other, less used, alloy ready to go in. It's not the one you want to use primarily, but if you get one you will probably always have a use for it, and it would get you familiarized with bottom pour at no big risk money wise, so i would say start with that (and hone the spout before you use it).

[Jruby38]

Go with a LEE Promelt 20 pound bottom pour. You get at least three times the production and better quality with bottom pour. None of the top of the pot slag you get and have to keep skimming with top ladle. I have three of them for different alloys. Muzzle Loader, Pistol, and Rifle. The are not pricey like the others and work great with 6 cavity molds.

[poppy42]

Here’s my thoughts on it for what it’s worth. Yeah can go out and spend a few hundred on our CBS or alignment or whatever or you can go out and buy three or four Lee 20 pound bottom pour pots. I have a lead for 20 love it no drips no runs no errors. For me it’s a no brainer. But then again I’m broke and have cash flow problems basically gets down to how much money do you have to spend and how comfortable are you with different brands available . It’s kinda like cars some folks a very comfortable with their basic Ford Chevy Chrysler etc. others have to have a Cadillac or Lincoln. Ultimately the decision is yours and Hass to be made by you. And yes I do realize everything that I’ve stated is probably of no use to you whatsoever sorry about that

[MOA]

I went from just a simple pot over a burner with a ladle, then I got the Magma master Caster, but when I found out that I could purchase the base stand that Magma uses on the Master Pot I ordered it and now I have a 40 lb bottom pour too. I just take out two bolts holding it to the master caster and place it on the master pot stand and I'm ready to go. Holds lots of lead so I'm not slowed down by having to wait when I add more lead since I do lots of heavy grain boolits. I get more boolits done in the same amount of time cause I don't have to wait long for it to get up to temp either.

https://i.postimg.cc/633R7jwS/new-images-June-9-2017.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/G2940D9Y/20141025-094544.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JDVrZGN4)

https://i.postimg.cc/5NNBLnnN/Photo0459.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/nh1ds27y/20190906-115707.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4YmvqzWP)

[kevin c]

MOA,

Even with as nice a set up as you have there (clean, portable, self contained and all that), I don't think I could ever get my wife to let me cast in the kitchen...

[MOA]

MOA,

Even with as nice a set up as you have there (clean, portable, self contained and all that), I don't think I could ever get my wife to let me cast in the kitchen...



kevin c,
I have an extraordinary wife. As long as I'm not toooooo unsafe, or messy, or until we move into our new home, or/until it gets below 95 outside she lets me do what is not normally accepted in most marriages as far as casting goes. It's way too hot outside to do this with the "AIR YOU CAN WEAR" down here on the Mobile gulf coast. When Winter comes I go outside to do this. When we get the new place, I plan on having the whole upstairs of the garage barn for my casting and reloading room so as to leave her new kitchen devoid of my reloading/casting vices. lol

[robg]

same here mine dips now and then but works well most of the time

[sharps4590]

I have an old Lyman Mag 20. Bought it new probably 30 years ago after fighting and fiddlin' with a couple Lee "Drip-o-Matics". I ladle all my rifle bullets because I can cast within less than 1 grain difference. I've never been able to achieve that bottom pouring. The only thing I bottom pour is plinking/playing revolver bullets. If I'm after serious revolver accuracy, I'll ladle them as well.

[CamoWhamo]

I have a Lee 4-20 that I use with an external PID made by Hatch on these forums.
I have also owned both the Lyman MAG-25 and RCBS Pro Melt-2 thinking they would be an upgrade over the Lee and they would be neater and less cable clutter on the bench.

Well, i ended up selling both the Lyman and RCBS and I'm still using that Lee. Yes, it sometimes drips but other than that it works well. The flow rate can be easily adjusted and is has a better stream. I get less rejects when using it. Having the PID's temp probe in the alloy is also way better than it being in the pot walls like in the Lyman and RCBS. The mold guide is simple but effective. Very easy to adjust with one hand and without tools.

The Lyman needed aftermarket upgrades to work with Accurate or NOE molds. The flow was forever changing and needed constant tweaking, and line of sight to the spout is blocked by the shroud so it is hard to line up the mold cavities when using it. On the plus side the Lyman's PID was easy to use and was accurate and very good at maintaining temp.

The RCBS' PID is terrible. It doesn't work anywhere near as well as the external PID or the lyman.
The physical design of the RCBS is good. It was fairly easy to use and adjust the flow. The mould guide is good but if you need to adjust it you need to use tools and it can't be done on the fly with one hand.
The RCBS also has poor insulation of the electronics and so the manual says you need to leave it running with the PID set to zero until the alloy cools . This takes several hours so you need to be aware of that.

[rbuck351]

I have never been able to cast a decent boolit with a dipper so I use Lee 10 and 20 lb bottom pour pots. Yeah they do drip sometimes but a quick twist of the stopper rod and they stop dripping for a while. My first 10lb Lee I bought about 50 years ago and so far no problems other than the drip issue. I use pieces of 1/4" and 1/8" steel plate stacked under the spout to bring the mold up to the height I want. Any drips or over flow slide off when resetting the mold for fill. My biggest mold is about 370 gr and I have no problems filling it with a lee pot.

[Nick10Ring]

I've had both LYMAN and LEE. The Lyman is a MoldmasterXX and it is great. I also picked up a 10 pound Lyman Ideal(it's old ) but it still works.
Like other people have said the LEE is a dripper.

Nick10Ring@aol.com

[Iowa Fox]

I started with the ladle almost 50 years ago now. I'm getting a little old and shaky now so a lot get bottom poured using a NOE rest.

[lign]

This is a very helpful thread. Before I started casting, I thought 10 pounds seemed like a lot (lol) so I got the Lee Production Pot IV. I don't like it because the pot is almost impossible to access to flux and stir or skim due to the fat rod right in the middle of it and it's tiny size. It drips quite a bit, and that used to bother me until I learned that most bottom pour pots do that. Now I am trying to decide whether to get the Lee 20 pound bottom pour and build a PID or buy the Pro Melt 2 or Mag 25. I'd rather buy one of those but the reviews are not very good. Watched a lot of youtube videos also. It's not about the money. Thanks to this site I have learned there is another option, so I am considering a Magma pot but there isn't much feedback available on those.

[44magLeo]

If you get the Lee and build a PID, you can use the PID for other things, like your PC baking oven.
If you buy a fancy pot with it built in that's all it can do.
I built my PID into an old cash box. I used a wall outlet in the side of the box. When not in use the power cord and temp probe get coiled in side. When in use the box stays open with the pot/oven plugged into the outlet.
Clean your scrap lead in a big pot on a propane burner, flux well and pour into ingots. This lets you put only clean lead in your casting pot. This minimizes dripping.
Leo

[StuBach]

If you get the Lee and build a PID, you can use the PID for other things, like your PC baking oven.



Agree with Leo on this one. Easy to switch probes from pot to pot or device to device when it’s a separate unit. Also, reviews and feedback I got from RCBS all points to built in units need special care with cool down procedures. RCBS PM2 has a fan that cools the PID, if you unplug and walk away from a hot pot the heat will fry the circuits in the PID. Independent PID eliminates that issue.

[lign]

Those are great points. So the only benefit of the Lyman or RCBS over a PID-equipped Lee 4 20 would be an extra 5 pounds and ? Maybe less dripping if I get lucky? Anything else?
Being able to move it from one pot to the other is a great idea, although I don't think I would use it for my PC oven which works fine without PID.
I have recently started smelting and cleaning my lead in a cast iron pot over a propane turkey fryer. I like the idea of keeping my current little pot full of pure lead for blackpowder guns and using the bigger one for an alloy. Building a PID should be pretty easy since I am a licensed Electrical Contractor (low voltage) in three states. Although I have a suspicion that I will eventually build one for each pot...

[MOA]

If you get the Lee and build a PID, you can use the PID for other things, like your PC baking oven.
If you buy a fancy pot with it built in that's all it can do.
I built my PID into an old cash box. I used a wall outlet in the side of the box. When not in use the power cord and temp probe get coiled in side. When in use the box stays open with the pot/oven plugged into the outlet.
Clean your scrap lead in a big pot on a propane burner, flux well and pour into ingots. This lets you put only clean lead in your casting pot. This minimizes dripping.
Leo


This is correct. If you start with clean lead you dripping will be little or not at all. I love my Magma, but even it deserves to be cleaned out every couple of years. I empty it and clean the stem and pot for debris that build up and could cause clogs in the process.

[smithnframe]

I have a Lyman 10 lb bottom pour from the early 70's that still works like a champ! An occasional drip in my usual marathon casting sessions! About 5 years ago I bought a 20 lb RCBS furnace that I call the Drip o matic. The planets have to be aligned perfectly for it not to drip!

[Ziptar]

Have an old Lyman Model 61 Mould-Master bottom pour. Works great! never drips or give me any trouble. I tried a Lyman Mag-20 a few years back. It was nothing but trouble and would drip. Wound up giving it another caster at my club after it powered off on me with a full pot one day. Don't know what kind of luck he had with it. The old 61 just keeps on going though.