S&W Ladysmith (2nd. mdl.) info needed

[oldhenry]

I hope this is the correct place to post this: if not, please move to correct segment.

A church friend has a 2nd. model S&W Ladysmith that belonged to his grandfather that has the following issues:
1. It will cycle in DA only
2. Trigger will not return without help.
3. It will not come to full cocked position in SA

I removed the side plate & see that the mechanism is more complicated than current models & some of the parts appear to be rather delicate. I believe that the side plate had never been removed previously (all 4 screws are in excellent condition). Everything looks clean, but not much lubrication. The features that are different from current models are:
1. There is a 2nd. leaf spring secured by the same strain screw as the main spring.
2. There is no rebound slide & coil spring as in current models making me think the 2nd. spring described above was supposed to do that job.
3. There is no hammer block.
4. There are other very small fragile parts of unknown function.

A partial attempt @ cycling indicates that the 2nd spring is involved in lowering the cylinder lock (probably not in the trigger return).

To diagnose the problem I need a written or video disassembly & reassembly guide. This is too valuable a piece to "bubba" & I will not do any disassembly without good information.

Photos:
#1 & #2 side views before side plate removal
#3 Close-up of 2nd. spring
#4 Right side view with side plate removed
#5 Close-up of mechanism

It is a 7 shot chambered for the S&W .22 short. Is that different from the current .22RF short?

Any input will be appreciated.
Henry

[Winger Ed.]

I'd flush & clean it real well first, then tighten the strain screw a little at a time to try and improve the function.
If you're not in a hurry, ya might can do it without taking it all apart.

Get a tooth brush or something to really clean the DA lock notch.
It probably isn't broken or worn out, it may just be gummy and dirty which would slow everything down and make the parts drag.


If you're not comfortable taking it all apart, ya probably shouldn't do it.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I would clean / oil it maybe use a little compressed air if you can just to blow out any crud

[Markopolo]

Have you attempted to move the cylinder out of the frame and then cycle carefully? Surely clean and relube. Work everything tiny bits at a time. Tooth brush is your friend as winger says... cleaner first, then lube with something light. Don’t go crazy with lube though. A light coat is always best.

If that doesn’t get the old gurl working again, I would not try to disassemble on my own, but take to an old school gunsmith for careful disassembly and function. The gun is probably forth quite a bit so work with a professional.

Just my 2 cents.. what do I know anyway.?

[rintinglen]

He maybe on a remote Alaskan Island, but Markopolo is right on. Soak it in a pan of mineral spirits, then brush it out with a tooth brush and then blow out the excess oily waste and dirt. Then close it up and give it a try. If it is still troublesome, track down a good gunsmith, but I am betting on a good cleaning fixing things up.

[oldhenry]

Have you attempted to move the cylinder out of the frame and then cycle carefully? Surely clean and relube. Work everything tiny bits at a time. Tooth brush is your friend as winger says... cleaner first, then lube with something light. Don’t go crazy with lube though. A light coat is always best.

If that doesn’t get the old gurl working again, I would not try to disassemble on my own, but take to an old school gunsmith for careful disassembly and function. The gun is probably forth quite a bit so work with a professional.

Just my 2 cents.. what do I know anyway.?

Marko,
Apparently the forward/lower side plate screw does not hold the cylinder assy. in position. I put gentle forward pressure on it & did not get any movement. The screw is short & does not have the tapered end like current models.
As stated: everything looks clean, but dry. I did put a few drops of oil on the moving parts, but no results. I'll remove the grips & give it a long soak in mineral spirits followed by many blasts with the air compressor.

Personally I appreciate the combined advice to refer to an old school gun smith if the above does not correct the problem...……..which lets me off of the hook.

Henry

[Markopolo]

Always a good idea to involve a pro with a historic piece.. especially a friends historic piece... :D

[oldhenry]

My old copy of The Gun Traders Guide after giving production dates & a general description says it was discontinued due to:

1. Difficulty of manufacturing
2. High frequency of repairs


Henry

[slughammer]

What is that in picture 5? Just aft of the trigger pivot pin by about 3/32"?
Looks like it has a small notch in it.
Is that part of the trigger return spring? A notch like that would have a purpose I think.

Can you give us a couple pictures of it cocked?

[slughammer]

What is that in picture 5? Just aft of the trigger pivot pin by about 3/32"?
Looks like it has a small notch in it.
Is that part of the trigger return spring? A notch like that would have a purpose I think.

Can you give us a couple pictures of it cocked?

I expanded the picture more. It looks like there is a pin above that part with the notch in it. Perhaps the notch goes on the pin.

[oldhenry]

Slughammer,I did not keep possession of the gun, but will get it back from the owner soon for the soak in MS. I'll get a close-up of that area as soon as I get it back.

From memory I'll describe it as best as I can. The blued diagonal piece does in fact have a notch on the forward lower end. It matches up with a squared off appendage machined into what I think is the cylinder lock (it moves downward when the trigger is pulled). With the side plate removed the blued diagonal piece looks like it barely makes contact with the squared appendage. Looking @ the side plate I saw nothing to put any side pressure on it to make better contact with the appendage. The appendage looks like a machined "wart" that is generally round on the lower/forward surface & squared on the upper/rear surface.

That blued diagonal piece is not very robust.

You are very observant to pick up on that detail. I'm old school & my photos are made with a floppy disc Sony Mavica camera. It was used by me @ work before retirement: it'll focus very closely but does not have the definition of the newer cameras/smart phones. I do not know how to attach photos from my smart phone (I'm not very smart).

Thanks for your help.
Henry

[rintinglen]

To add to my previous comments, my recollection is that you need to drift out that pin above the front of the trigger guard in order to remove the cylinder. I would remove the grips and the side plate and soak the rest overnight in a coffee can full of Mineral Spirits. Brush it out, then blow out as much of the loosened debris as you can, Put it back in the can and slush it around, the repeat the scrubbing and air blowing. Flush the Mineral spirits out with some brake cleaner and then lightly lube contact surfaces with a good gun oil. If the gun still doesn't work you may be looking at parts replacement.

[oldhenry]

To add to my previous comments, my recollection is that you need to drift out that pin above the front of the trigger guard in order to remove the cylinder. I would remove the grips and the side plate and soak the rest overnight in a coffee can full of Mineral Spirits. Brush it out, then blow out as much of the loosened debris as you can, Put it back in the can and slush it around, the repeat the scrubbing and air blowing. Flush the Mineral spirits out with some brake cleaner and then lightly lube contact surfaces with a good gun oil. If the gun still doesn't work you may be looking at parts replacement.

You may be correct about that pin being the key to cylinder removal. If so, that would be another good reason NOT to do any disassembly as this is a nickel plated gun & with the age of this piece removal would be inviting flaking of the nickel on the pin.


I have the gun back in my possession & sprayed the mechanism with Kroil (after side plate removal) & let the Kroil soak for 3 hours. I then covered the entire gun with MS. At noon today the 24 hr. MS soak will end. I'll give it the tooth brush, air blast, brake cleaner & lube treatment then.

Henry

[oldhenry]

After performing the above outlined treatment there is no progress. I now doubt that any crud is causing the problems outlined in my original post. The MS after a 26 hr. soak remained clear. The tooth brush treatment did not dislodge any foreign particles. The lubrication may have made a marginal improvement,

If this was my gun I'd remove the two leaf type springs to see if there was anything under the 2nd. spring that prevented it from coming to full SA cock. I think the problem with the trigger not returning fully in DA would require removal of the trigger (which would mean removing a few very delicate parts that are foreign to any S&W revolver I've ever disassembled). Since it is not my gun, I admitted defeat & returned it to owner.

Henry