Slight timing issue - Colt Army Special

[am44mag]

I noticed that the timing is slightly off on my Colt Army Special (original name of the Colt Official Police). It's present on all chambers, not just one. Here's what I've noticed about it.


1. If shooting SA, slowly and softly cocking the hammer will cause the cylinder to not lock. It's just a hair off. A slight rotation of the cylinder causes it to lock.

2. If shooting SA, cocking the hammer with some authority will cause the cylinder to align correctly and lock.

3. Dropping the hammer seems to knock the cylinder into alignment.

4. If shooting DA, slowly and carefully pulling the trigger can cause the cylinder to not go completely into alignment, until the hammer drops.


When I say it's a hair off, I mean that its right on the very edge of locking into alignment. You can see that it's off, but any jarring of the gun seems to cause it to finish rotating. Is this something I need to be worried about, or is it just a quirk to be expected on a 102 year old gun? Any thoughts on how to fix it?

[M-Tecs]

This thread should cover the info you want and it saves me typing. Quote is from post #4 but lots more info in the thread.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?266327-Colt-quot-Police-Positive-quot-cylinder-lock-up-problem-(Now-W-Pics)

In Colt revolvers, which rotate clockwise, the hand (or pawl) rotates the cylinder once the cylinder bolt drops out of the way. The top step of the pawl starts the rotation, the bottom step is what locks it up. In perfect time, the cylinder bolt will drop into the notch as the revolver reaches full cock, pushed there by the top step on the pawl. Please note that the bottom step of the hand is not quite fully against the ratchets on the rear of the cylinder; this occurs, along with full lockup just as the sear releases the hammer. (There's quite a bit of travel in the Colt action, here) In well worn revolvers it is common to find many that the cylinder bolt does not lock the cylinder until the trigger is being pulled. As long as it DOES lock up fully and correctly (barrel in line with the chamber) BEFORE the hammer falls the old time 'smiths call this 'colt time' and it is acceptable. (Think the same as a S&W revolver, when it wears timing can be late on some chambers and as long as it three or less out of six chambers, that's acceptable)

[6bg6ga]

Take it to a gunsmith?

[am44mag]

Take it to a gunsmith?

I have two options for that. Take it to Ol Bubba down at the pawn shop (who has never done anything more complicated than boresighting a rifle), or make a 4 hour round trip out of state to a gunsmith who I know little to nothing about.

Unfortunately good gunsmiths are not exactly a dime a dozen here. From what I've read, you need one who knows how to work on old Colts too, not just guns in general. I wish there was a good one local to me. I have a few projects that I need one for.

[am44mag]

This thread should cover the info you want and it saves me typing. Quote is from post #4 but lots more info in the thread.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?266327-Colt-quot-Police-Positive-quot-cylinder-lock-up-problem-(Now-W-Pics)

In Colt revolvers, which rotate clockwise, the hand (or pawl) rotates the cylinder once the cylinder bolt drops out of the way. The top step of the pawl starts the rotation, the bottom step is what locks it up. In perfect time, the cylinder bolt will drop into the notch as the revolver reaches full cock, pushed there by the top step on the pawl. Please note that the bottom step of the hand is not quite fully against the ratchets on the rear of the cylinder; this occurs, along with full lockup just as the sear releases the hammer. (There's quite a bit of travel in the Colt action, here) In well worn revolvers it is common to find many that the cylinder bolt does not lock the cylinder until the trigger is being pulled. As long as it DOES lock up fully and correctly (barrel in line with the chamber) BEFORE the hammer falls the old time 'smiths call this 'colt time' and it is acceptable. (Think the same as a S&W revolver, when it wears timing can be late on some chambers and as long as it three or less out of six chambers, that's acceptable)

"Colt time" seems to be what's going on with my gun. If I pull the trigger, the cylinder locks up. That's a relief. Thanks for the info.

[Petrol & Powder]

Correcting the timing of a Colt DA revolver is a bit complicated. The real problem is finding someone that's competent to do the work. The other problem is finding parts if needed but that situation is better for some models than others.

[Guesser]

Frank Glenn in Phoenix Az. has been doing superb repairs on Colt revolvers for me; in fact, just last month he repaired a 1927 Army Special. He is very, very good with the "V" spring Colts and is very, very reasonable. I suspect your hand needs to be replaced or possibly can be rectified by being stretched; providing it hasn't been stretched already. New after market hands are readily available but must be hand fitted. Google Glenn Custom or Accuracy Unlimited and then email Frank with the specifics, he is very good about responding to emails. His turn times are also very good, usually less than 30 days and he notifies you by email when it's done, what he did and how much. Have your FFL holder ship it to Frank.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have a Colt Pocket Positive that didn’t quite index like that. Pulling the trigger all the way back usually finished the turn, but one day it didn’t and the throat part of the barrel inside the frame split. I ordered a used hand from Numrich with an idea of dressing it down to fit, but wound up keeping it as a fall-back spare. I took the original hand, and with a hammer and punch peened the area between the pin and the lower tooth, a few taps at a time, then a fit and function check.

Didn’t take much tapping to stretch the hand enough to index the cylinder satisfactorily. Just enough to flatten the hand slightly at that point. I’m not a factory qualified repair person, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they used adjustment methods like this. Both the original hand and the Numrich part looked like they had been filed out of steel scrap by someone in Pakistan. Not a bad job for utility, but still pretty “unfinished” looking.

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds to me like the Colt DA revolver is in perfect time. It's the last little bit of trigger travel, not hammer travel, that finishes rotating the cylinder so the bolt locks into the cylinder recess.

The old Cold DA revolvers, including Diamond backs and Pythons, do not time and lock up like S&Ws. The Colt timing is completely different.

1. If shooting SA, slowly and softly cocking the hammer will cause the cylinder to not lock. It's just a hair off. A slight rotation of the cylinder causes it to lock.

Just how it's supposed to be.

2. If shooting SA, cocking the hammer with some authority will cause the cylinder to align correctly and lock.

Again, just what is supposed to happen.

3. Dropping the hammer seems to knock the cylinder into alignment.

If you are pulling the trigger to "drop the hammer" that causes the lower notch on the hand to finish rotating the cylinder......just as it is supposed to.

4. If shooting DA, slowly and carefully pulling the trigger can cause the cylinder to not go completely into alignment, until the hammer drops.

Because when the "hammer drops" the trigger has been pulled back far enough for the bottom notch in the hand to finish the rotation of the cylinder......just like it is supposed to......

If the cylinder locks up when the trigger is pulled there is no timing issue. If the cylinder does not lock up when the trigger is pulled then there is a timing issue.

In the OP's description of his Colt revolvers timing...........It ain't broke, so don't fix it.......