Lesson learned

[Tripplebeards]

I have been loading since 99’ and still learning. I have only loaded for for two 5.56 AR’s and have had excellent luck with feeding and accuracy. I took my new AR10 chambered in 243 to the range last week and stuck one in the chamber. I made the mistake of not taking a spent case and candeling a projectile, chambering it, and measuring the max OAL...I did now. The max with the 90 grain seirra FMJBT is 2.621”. I made the mistake of grabbing some old reloads I forgot I loaded long for a bolt gun about a decade or longer ago. They were loaded at 2.688”. Two of the three rounds that fired cracked the necks. The fourth round must have been work hardened brass because the case stopped sticking about a 1/2” out of the chamber. I had to remove the upper and tap out the bolt to remove the case. The bullet of course stayed stuck in the lands when I pulled out the case. I have now ordered a Lyman 243 checker gauge. While waiting for it I started with some other brass that I anealed before hand and loaded at 2.585”. I dropped them into my cleaned chamber of my upper to make sure they fit. Guess I’ve gotten lucky with the 5.56’s since I’ve never had an issue with feeding or chambering...I just loaded them at max Sami OAL and got lucky I guess. I’m use to loading cases that chamber a little snug in my bolts for better accuracy in the past and that is definitely a no no with automatics. I’ll have to order a Lyman pistol
Checker for my Ruger 44 carbine so I don’t have the same issue. I’ll check my current loads to make sure they drop loosely in my wheel gun cylinders before I let them fly in my carbine.

The two that cracked...probably to much pressure and work hardened brass...

http://i.imgur.com/EDVG3fL.jpg


The one that wasn’t sized properly and also too long of an OAL I pulled...

http://i.imgur.com/9PExGTP.jpg


I have a lot better, more precise, Reloading practices now but messed it all up skipping a couple steps with this rifle...checking the OAL and not checking the case diameter after loading. The Lyman checker gauge should solve the chambering issue and now that I checked the chamber length I should be good to go. Guess I got lucky as no damage was done to me or my rifle.

[RED BEAR]

Live and learn i have had trouble with loads for one gun using in another. We all make mistakes it is if we learn from them.

[yeahbub]

You mention this was ammo you reloaded some years ago. I was busting off a few .223 from a lot that was reloaded in once-fired brass back in the 1990's or so and about 10% of the fired cases had split necks. Definitely not over-pressure, just straight book loads. On inspecting the rest, I found three or four which had cracked necks prior to firing. Most still had the annealing discoloration on them from when they were military cases, but it seems that sizing/reloading can build up sufficient stress in brass that, given enough time (a decade or two), some of them will split on firing or a small percentage beforehand. That being said, the cracked cases in your photos may not be due to excessive pressure.

Interestingly, small lots of cases I routinely reload multiple times pretty much continuously haven't exhibit neck splits. Some of them, .357's, have been loaded more than ten times, showing no signs of impending failure. This leads me to believe time adds an effect on stress in brass cases that can be ignored in the short term, but becomes exacerbated in cases undisturbed for a long time. Not certain that I have all of that right, but it's been some years since I looked into this.

[JBinMN]

I am happy to read that you did not have anything hurt, or damaged, than perhaps your ego.
Things could have been worse.
;)

Sharing your experience(s) may help others & I think it was good of you to tell of these mishaps here, for others to learn from them, if they do/can.
It takes a pretty good & confident feller to own up to things when some mistakes are made. Not many seem to be able to do that.

Thanks for your sharing!
:)

[Sig556r]

Glad no one's hurt, just wondering how they'd fit in the mag if they were long for an AR10...

[curator]

The bright ring at the shoulder of the one that was loaded "too long" is an indication of it being bulged right there. Crimping when also seating bullets will sometimes cause this if a case is a bit too long. For best results crimp as a separate step with the seating screw turned way out and be sure all our cases are the same length.

[Tripplebeards]

You mention this was ammo you reloaded some years ago. I was busting off a few .223 from a lot that was reloaded in once-fired brass back in the 1990's or so and about 10% of the fired cases had split necks. Definitely not over-pressure, just straight book loads. On inspecting the rest, I found three or four which had cracked necks prior to firing. Most still had the annealing discoloration on them from when they were military cases, but it seems that sizing/reloading can build up sufficient stress in brass that, given enough time (a decade or two), some of them will split on firing or a small percentage beforehand. That being said, the cracked cases in your photos may not be due to excessive pressure.

Interestingly, small lots of cases I routinely reload multiple times pretty much continuously haven't exhibit neck splits. Some of them, .357's, have been loaded more than ten times, showing no signs of impending failure. This leads me to believe time adds an effect on stress in brass cases that can be ignored in the short term, but becomes exacerbated in cases undisturbed for a long time. Not certain that I have all of that right, but it's been some years since I looked into this.


I believe your right on the lack of use and sitting for a long period of time. The other two cases...the one that didn’t crack and the other that wasn’t sized properly got annealed yesterday.

I will definitely check the rest of the loads to see if there are cracked necks and I’m just blind. There’s only about 6 left that are loaded.


What’s got me confused is the case that’s to big in diameter. I tried the other loads in my upper and they slid in nice and easy...accept for the last 1/8” of an inch being the OAL is too long. So how can one case be to big in diameter? I’m guessing the brass has been worked hardened and sprung back?...or maybe I short stroked rcbs lever when FL sizing?

[popper]

Old reloads fired in bigger chamber, might need a SB sizer. Case gauge will only check OAL/HS. Mike a fired case and compare with sized case.

[Tripplebeards]

Old reloads fired in bigger chamber, might need a SB sizer. Case gauge will only check OAL/HS. Mike a fired case and compare with sized case.

Didn’t know of such a thing. I see rcbs makes a die for it. I’ll have to order one.

[Tripplebeards]

I just bought a set of RCBS 11407 AR dies. Found a set that said new, opened fro $30 shipped! I figured it’s a must even if my rounds I just loaded still work fine. I don’t want any more issues.

[Smoke4320]

Small base dies can be a help when loading for a an AR.
Like all things it depends on the circumstance

[swheeler]

Looking at the second picture of the round that stuck, you had a round with a bulged shoulder from trying to do a roll crimp on a bullet without a cannelure. The split necks are just work hardened brass or a chamber with a large neck, not so uncommon.

[yeahbub]

This may have been mentioned already, but conventional crimp dies for bottle-necked cases can cause the shoulder to expand outward if too much pressure is applied, thus increasing the diameter at the shoulder. I've done that before. Once the neck is crimped into the cannelure, there's nowhere further for the brass to go. If downward force continues to increase, the bullet and case neck will move down as a unit and collapse the cone of the shoulder outward. Chambering is them unlikely. There was a fellow who reloaded .223 Rem commercially and he would show up at the range with a coffee can full of reject rounds from setting the dies in his progressive loader and shoot them out of a Mini-14. Collet type crimp dies weren't available then so a fair number had swelled shoulders from too much crimping force. The Mini-14 ate them all. Sometimes, if the case almost chambers, dropping the bolt on it may get it in there, but then extraction may be a problem. In a gas gun, firing generally gets them out, but the best method is pull the load and resize the case. The "plunk" test to check whether they'll readily chamber will identify those which are a problem.

[Tripplebeards]

I did not crimp that round or have ever crimped any 243 round. I don’t plan on ever crimping my AR10 243 rounds. The gun is extremely heavy and barely recoils so I don’t believe I will have an issue. I don’t crimp my 223/5.56 rounds in my POF P415 and have never had a round shift from recoil...and my POF with a brake has more recoil than my 243.


The bullets I use don’t have a crimp groove so if I really had to I’d probably go with a lee factory crimp collet die....which will be a last resort.

Rcbs told me their AR die is two thousands of an inch smaller inside diameter than the standard die set. So the measurement difference is comparable to half the thickness of a piece of paper is all the difference between the standard set vs the AR die set.

[swheeler]

Huh, well I see a groove /mark on the pulled bullet pictured

[Tripplebeards]

Huh, well I see a groove /mark on the pulled bullet pictured

It dose look that way doesn’t it. But I never crimped it. I would assume that was some good neck pressure. I’m guessing maybe that was the result of the case slamming into the bullet that was seated too long causing that “crimp looking ring”?

[yeahbub]

You may have taken this into account already, but possibly a neck longer than the chamber? This would produce a crimping action when the bolt slams it into the chamber. Increased pressure too. That still doesn't explain the round that stopped 1/2" out of the chamber though. Were they neck-sized or with different set of dies? Perhaps the bolt rifle they were loaded for had a more generous shoulder diameter than your current autoloader.

I'm curious. You say you don't crimp because the rifle is fairly heavy? Did I understand that right? I'm wondering what the heft of the rifle would have to do with whether one crimps the ammo. I also load .223 for an AR without a crimp in some loads for accuracy's sake and let them sit long enough to "take a set" in the cleaned case necks so they won't break loose and be punched into the case on being cycled through the action, but this has nothing to do with the rifles weight.

[Tripplebeards]

I meant I do not feel I need to crimp because my gun is so heavy it litteraly dose not hardly recoil at all. If it were a light rifle with tons of kick that could cause my bullets to shift, then yes it would probably be a good idea. I don't crimp for accuracy reasons as well. My avatar is a 100 yard group from my non crimped rounds shot in my 14.5" POF P415. The gun has shot .3" at 200 yards with the same load when I do my part. I do crimp all my pistol rounds, my 450 bushmaster, and 35 Remington for my 336. I don't crimp for my 7600 35 Remington pump carbine.

Well,

I tried my new loads that I made sure to load fourty five thousands shorter than Max OAL dropped in my chamber easily and flush. All cycled and fired just fine. My Lyman 243 case checker came today. I save a few unfired rounds to test in my checker to see if they fit loose. I had a few fit snug and grab at the base. I had to give I little tap on the bottom of the checker when turned upsidedown to have them fall out. I had a a few of the fired casings fit loose and fall out easy! I also had a couple that fit snug a stuck almost flush with the checker. I take it I have a pretty tight chamber? Well, I would assume the RCBS small base die set is the answer. Here's what the spent casings look like. You can see the high marks that rubbed going in I assume?

http://i.imgur.com/2xaRnBd.jpg

[Texas by God]

I don’t crimp any AR loads and I always set my seating dies to where the neck mouth does not contact the crimp ring. I crimp my lever action ammo and revolver ammo but that’s it.

[Lloyd Smale]

don't know how many 1000 rounds of ammo ive had to pull down over the years due to stupidity. The I KNOW EVERYTHING syndrome. Get a new gun and just start stroking the Dillon without even testing the first couple to see if they chambered.

[Tripplebeards]

don't know how many 1000 rounds of ammo ive had to pull down over the years due to stupidity. The I KNOW EVERYTHING syndrome. Get a new gun and just start stroking the Dillon without even testing the first couple to see if they chambered.


I found some more of that “stupid loaded” ammo the other day that I loaded years back. It was 44 mag jacketed. I saw the load data I had included with the bags. There were a few 240 grain xtp’s loaded above 24 grains. I’ll be pulling them in the next few days.

[Tripplebeards]

My rcbs small base die came yesterday. I ran some cases through it to test. I screwed my die down another quarter inch after it was flush with my shell holder...like I always do with bottleneck cartridges. I used the some brass that I ran through my standard size die and it was still needing a good amount of force to resize. A few of the federal cases had rings around the shoulder of the case after sizing. I would assume the die is not machined smooth? I then tested the small base sized cartridges in my Lyman checker. They definitely fit nice and loose in my checker compared to the standard sized cases. The standard case sized dies do fit but there is no room for error. I would assume if I had some grit, carbon build up in the chamber, or heat, I would eventually get sticky or stuck cases with the standard sized cases.

You know, I did check the three fired test cases that were sent with my upper. They all had a good sized injector ring circle stamped into the case heads.