Firing Rifles at Very Close Targets Question

[Four-Sixty]

In all seriousness, why do I see so many people shooting their rifles at targets that are so close to them. Here is a photo from a recent range visit. Is this some new firearms/training discipline?

This shooter's target was at about 15 yards.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190526/ce50f88b059e89efdadae0b6e7220d34.jpg

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[sureYnot]

I've acquired rifles that were so far out of whack I had to shoot that close in order to hit the paper and even begin to sight in.

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[Four-Sixty]

Here is another view. The red marker to the right is for 15 yards.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190526/0d129108fb19edc8bf42ea1851dda6af.jpg

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[3leggedturtle]

So they can shoot fast and hit the target a 1/4 of the time.

[Four-Sixty]

These guys shot there for awhile...

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[Adam20]

I often wonder the same thing, but when I see there targets that is the distance that they can keep shots on paper.

[Blammer]

ask them....

if we are speculating,

I guess it is to practice shooting with both eyes open, rapid fire, for defensive purposes in close proximity.

[JSnover]

ask them....

if we are speculating,

I guess it is to practice shooting with both eyes open, rapid fire, for defensive purposes in close proximity.

Most likely that. I see it all the time.

[Hickory]

I was in Wenatchee, Washington in March and i witnessed the same thing, only they were shooting slow aimed fire at 12 FEET! And there were at least 20 people in line wanting to shoot.
Only thing I can figure is, it was a competition of any gun you wanted to shoot by people in advance stages of cataracts.

[Love Life]

Kind of like people shooting pistol at a whopping 7 yards.

[jonp]

The rifle shoots in an arc. For most rifles if you sight them in at 25yrds they will be on target at 100yrds. I always sight mine in with a new scope like that. Most AR combat rifles are for close in enough that if you sight them in for that distance they will hit what you are aiming at within reason.

[lefty o]

as long as they are safe, and arent affecting anybody, it really doesnt matter why. im sure they have their reasons.

[gnostic]

Kind of like people shooting pistol at a whopping 7 yards.

I split baseball cards on edge at seven yards about 60% of the time. Maybe you're just a better shot than we are...

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Ask them?

[toallmy]

as long as they are safe, and arent affecting anybody, it really doesnt matter why. im sure they have their reasons.


Good response .

[pmer]

Very close with a scoped rifle can be tricky. If the target is really small you're likely to shoot low because the scope is above bore 1.5" or so.

[nun2kute]

How bad are their Eyes ? Mine sure seem to be going downhill in a hurry. Just near sighted. So I tend to aim farther away. My next wonder is ... How new to Guns and Shooting are they ? Maybe some one is just trying to get them on paper to keep them interested. I would think that might help.

On a lighter note, I often see younger people sneaking up on stationary objects to shoot them with a Scatter Gun. Waste of money to me, but it sure puts a big smile on their face.

[country gent]

If I remember 12 yds was where garands sights were set at. 12 and 200 were the same zero. Some of the tactical groups shoot close and fast its more in the technique form and reloads use of the equipment than accuracy

[Bazoo]

I have a friend that shoots handguns at 7 yards. I asked him why once and in a nutshell he told me because that's the most common distance of a self defense shooting. At 7 yards he does groups about 3-4" in size. We moved back to 15 yards and his groups opened up to where he was not 100% on a silhouette target.

He shoots rifles at 15-25 yards too. Mostly 22s but occasionally a high power. Once in a while he'll shoot a rifle out to 50-75 yards.

I recall a while back we were shooting handguns together, I think at 15 yards, well anyways he had a paper plate sized group but had a round hit center. I had a 2 1/2" group but off center. He points to the center shot on his target and declares he's got a good shooting gun and that he out shot me.

I lots of times will shoot my rifles down to 15 or 25 yards if I'm plinking. Especially my 22, but anything I have is fair plinking fodder if the notion strikes me.

[243winxb]

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/jerry-miculeks-ar-15-v-drill-close-range-rifle-hose-fest/ Rifle at 12 yards.

There is a drill for handguns at 3 yards. Seen both used at my club.

[Beerd]

Did you pick up their brass? I'll bet they don't reload.
..

[Four-Sixty]

Did you pick up their brass? I'll bet they don't reload.
..No, I could not. This is a Georgia managed range. They collect the brass to off set range operations. Asking others for their brass is also discouraged.

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[turtlezx]

had guys shoot high power rifles next to me at 50yds
1 guy couldnt resist coming over after i had been shooting awhile
what you shooting he said? me 22 rim fire says i dont see your target?? iam shooting the gong at 300yds why dont you step it up up bit?

[john.k]

This annoys me greatly too,......ijits shoot at low down 25 yd targets with big guns and milsurps ,and kick up choking clouds of dust,which drifts back on the firing line,coating all my gear and guns with sand and grit.......There are a lot of millenials shooting for video to put on u tube,and pretend 25yd targets are shot at 100 or more.

[Bigslug]

In all seriousness, why do I see so many people shooting their rifles at targets that are so close to them. Here is a photo from a recent range visit. Is this some new firearms/training discipline?

Yeah, sort of.

When dealing with AR's, the sight plane is 2.5 inches above the bore, and that makes for some interesting compensations - especially at shorter distances.

If the rifle is zeroed at 200 yards, the bullet crosses the line of sight TWICE, being also pretty much dead on at 50 yards as the bullet climbs. On the way to that, it will be about an inch low at 25 yards. At 100 yards, it's about 1.25" high.

If the gun's zeroed at 100 yards, the bullet may climb another 1/8 to quarter inch before it starts back down to be about 1.25" low at 200. IME, it'll be about 2" below point of aim at 15 yards.

It's called "mechanical offset", and it's a good thing to practice.

[WheelgunConvert]

Those aren’t reduced targets, but I occasionally use reduced 200&300 25yd equivalents indoors.

Also, there’s some 3 yard targets that are challenging. This one keeps me in check.
242440

[Mal Paso]

I ran into a fellow at the range sighting in a Gibbs 505 at 7 yards in a pistol lane next to me for an upcoming elephant hunt. He explained legal hunts are usually getting rid of a trouble maker and he was expecting to be up close in heavy brush. The loads were heavy, intended to penetrate the skull.

Most of the pistol shooters seem to have their targets at a distance that most of the shots are on paper. Whatever distance that is for them.

Gibbs 505 next to a 12ga shell. LOL

[WILCO]

Tactical shooting is all the rage.
We have the same guys at the club.
I'm not a fan, but I'm not willing to pooh pooh it.
Start doing stupid and I'm likely to let you know.
Also, as stated before, close sight in is needed for military sights.

[Tom W.]

Sometimes it's just fun to do as you want at the range, as long as it's safe. There's no set rules that a person has to shoot a rifle at 100 yards, and a pistol or revolver at 25 .

When I'm shooting mouse fart loads to fire form brass it's usually at a 50 yard target. I've been known to shoot my SRH .44mag @ 150 yards at steel just because......

I shoot to have fun, not to please onlookers.
As long as it's safety first.

[Shopdog]

Can't speak for anyone else,that would be best approached by asking?

But,if you are a serious hunter,you probably should spend some time on offhand close work. I've killed several deer inside of 50 feet. Throw in smaller than perfect shot windows and without "knowing" what you and the rig is capable of,a mess can be made pretty quickly. Further,not just large game..... head shooting small game for the pot with CB's is,or can be up close and tough too. I practice offhand with a rifle a decent amount around 25 yards. Not into AR's so can't comment on them.

[Bazoo]

That's a very good point shopdog. My first deer was at 30 yards off hand and quick with my winchester 94 30-30.

[WheelgunConvert]

I ran into a fellow at the range sighting in a Gibbs 505 at 7 yards in a pistol lane next to me for an upcoming elephant hunt. He explained legal hunts are usually getting rid of a trouble maker and he was expecting to be up close in heavy brush. The loads were heavy, intended to penetrate the skull.

Most of the pistol shooters seem to have their targets at a distance that most of the shots are on paper. Whatever distance that is for them.

Gibbs 505 next to a 12ga shell. LOL

That case alone would leave a bruise when ejected. :bigsmyl2:

[bikerbeans]

At my club there is a real safety hazard shooting CF rifles within 30 to 40 yards of the soil backstop. The backstop soil is mostly donated dirt from sewer and water line repairs. Along with the dirt is a lot of bricks, blocks, pavement, concrete and the odd piece of metal. On occassion a bullet will hit something hard and return to sender.

BB

[waksupi]

Close targets have no fun for me. We had a company range day, and the boss came over to see what my old shooting buddy and I were shooting at with our revolvers. He had been shooting at seven yards, and couldn't figure out what our target was. We were using an empty .22 box at 100 yards. He said **, so we proceeded to show him what we could do. He just shook his head and went back to his 7 yard targets.

[Idaho45guy]

No public ranges out here in God's country, so I have no idea what weird/abnormal/stupid things other shooters do.

I start sighting in rifles at 50yds, then out to 100yds. Pistols get sighted in and shot at 25yds for load development and accuracy testing, then shot fast at 7yds for defense drills and practice.

I shoot at either my dad's range, with an indoor bench and targets from 25yds to 300yds...

242452

Or at the cabin with a bunch of short range targets out to 25yds...

242453

I could see a Mini-14 being shot at 15yds. I had one that couldn't hit a pie plate past that distance...

[Kraschenbirn]

I don't participate but our club runs regular 3-gun 'tactical' matches where the FARTHEST rifle target is 80 yards. I've watched some of those guys with $2000 guns who, shooting off-hand, could barely keep half their rounds on a B21 target at 50 yards. And, when I say, 'on target', I mean on the actual silhouette itself not the 'critical mass' zone!!

To each his own, I guess...

Bill

[Wis Tom]

I believe anyone shooting and practicing, is a good thing, as so many things are being lost, in this day in age. If it is safe, I don't say, or think, anything. As many people we can keep shooting, is more on our side, in the fight to have rights to keep shooting.

[lefty o]

the real question is, why do people worry so much about how others enjoy themselves?

[MT Gianni]

I believe you should never shoot an an animal at a range you have not put on paper. I have heard of too many times someone followed a blood trail from a 10 foot shot that they tried to shoot a deer directly under their tree stand. With a scoped rifle you are usually 2 1/2" low at that range. That is enough to break a jaw but not hit the brain.

[wv109323]

I was at a public range and a guy rolled in with a h&k 308 rifle. He had a new steel gong in the wrapper. It was about 8" diameter. He set it up at about 10 yards. That is when I left.

[FISH4BUGS]

as long as they are safe, and arent affecting anybody, it really doesnt matter why. im sure they have their reasons.
The problem here is that the center mass shots are NOT hitting the berm. Just look at the angle.
Who knows where the bullets are winding up?
That is not the least bit safe and certainly DOES affect others....wherever those bullets land NOT in the berm.
That kind of shooting is careless and reckless.

[jsizemore]

Offhand looks to be landing at the base of the berm. Shooting from the bench looks to be near the top of the berm with head shots.

[redriverhunter]

I try to go to the range Monday thru Thursday and no government holidays. I don't understand the shooting an ar15 at the 25 yard as fast as they can pull the trigger. One day at the range a guy shows decked out in tactical gear don't get it but ok. He puts up human like target at 100 yards and starting banging away gave a new meaning to spray and pray. I am kind of glad I don't understand his thought process. what is most enjoyable to is me shooting tight groups with a lever action and leaving them wondering how I did it.

[RED BEAR]

I see this all the time to . I will use the 25 yrd range when installing a new scope or sights just to check that i am close. But i see people set there the whole time popping off rounds at a leisurely pace then bragging when all hit the target. I just say yea thats something. I use the 7 to 15 yard range to practice with my carry gun. This is rapid fire with little use of sights as long as i keep them center mass i am good with that. I do this because thats pretty much what most people do in a stress situation and hope that if i ever have to defend me or mine i will go with what i practice. Now the 25 and 50 yard range is to see how good i can still shoot a pistol and with my eyes it ain't all that good anymore. The longest range we have is 100 yards and it stays kinda busy so sometimes you just have to use the 50 yard for rifles.

[Texas by God]

Kind of like people shooting pistol at a whopping 7 yards.Is it? Self defense pistols are practiced with at close range, not 50 yards.
The first Cowboy Action match I attended, i laughed out loud when i saw how close the rifle targets were.....

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[lefty o]

Offhand looks to be landing at the base of the berm. Shooting from the bench looks to be near the top of the berm with head shots.

yup, just draw a line down the barrel, and you can see it.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

First, they are shooting, that's a good thing. How do you judge? I have my own range, capable of a 1000 yards plus. Mostly do 100 and 200, walking back and forth to check targets(exercise). How fast you go can make a differenc. Start a timer and see how fast you can knock down 3" chunks of wood at speed, offhand, running 5 shots as fast as you can work the action or just pull the trigger at 25 yards. A different skill set than s l o w l y shooting a 3 shot group at 100 yards from a benchrest, probably requires more muscle control and skill. Sitting at bench shooting is different than shooting without support. Kneel and fire 5 shots for group at 100 or 150 or 200 yards, just stand and shoot five at 100 yards in under 10 seconds. My wife and I run 25 - 50 - 100 yard drills, 5" targets 2 shots each for time. Makes things interesting, great hunting/gun handling practice. Sitting at a bench is not the only skill on the range. On the other side of 100 yards weather becomes the enemy, wind mostly, can be really annoying here in Wyoming. There are many practical reasons to shoot close-in.

[Bazoo]

Many times I practice quick shots on multiple targets inside 25 yards with my winchester 94. If I ever have a chance to get a 2 for on close running deer, I want to be ready.

[lefty o]

Many times I practice quick shots on multiple targets inside 25 yards with my winchester 94. If I ever have a chance to get a 2 for on close running deer, I want to be ready.

dont let some of these guys see you, they'll start a thread about you! LOL

[FISH4BUGS]

yup, just draw a line down the barrel, and you can see it.

Maybe you should check your ruler. :)
His offhand center mass shots are 20-30 yards short of the berm.

[Bazoo]

dont let some of these guys see you, they'll start a thread about you! LOL

I know it.

[SSGOldfart]

Kind of like people shooting pistol at a whopping 7 yards.

This is a requirement for most law enforcement training, we also shot at 2 yards and remember the old slow fire was at a smaller target just 25 feet.

[jsizemore]

Maybe you should check your ruler. :)
His offhand center mass shots are 20-30 yards short of the berm.

I've seen bunches of videos of 3 gun and ipsc and idpa where the bullet doesn't impact the berm but lands in front of it. IMO as long as it doesn't bounce off a rock or piece of steel and leave the range it's OK.

[JSnover]

The berm at my range is 200 yards away and whenever I have a chance to watch these guys doin' their thang I always see hits on the ground or near the base of that berm at worst. At 0-50 yards there's little to no elevation needed; the bullets are being launched pretty near horizontal for head shots and at a slight downward angle for center-of-mass targets. Call those guys whatever you want but they're no more dangerous than anyone else out there, just makin' holes in the dirt.

[lefty o]

Maybe you should check your ruler. :)
His offhand center mass shots are 20-30 yards short of the berm.

maybe you should look at where the barrel is actually pointing, instead of you guessing about him shooting center mass.

[Petander]

In all seriousness, why do I see so many people shooting their rifles at targets that are so close to them.

Are they doing timed drills or similar?

That I would understand,a scoped rifle can be difficult at close range. I have side-mounted an Aimpoint to my long range rifle scope base because of the 6-24x scope.

Much faster up close but takes some practise. Like everything.

[izzyjoe]

Everybody is different, I don't care what range they are shooting at, as long as they ain't shootin at me! Once I had to call out a fellow with a steel target that him and his daughter was shooting at close range with 22 pistols, and me and a buddy were getting lead splattered back at us, which hurts like hell! We asked him to move it out to 25yds, and he claimed they couldn't hit it at that range, well, I told him I was tired of getting shot, so he'd better learn! Anyway I like to use milk jugs full of water for off hand shooting with rifles, at various yardages to practice for deer hunting. I figure if I can hit a jug offhand at a 100yds, I'm doing good, cause average shots on deer are 25-80yds. It's impressive when a frozen jug is shot at 50yds with a high power rifle!

[243winxb]

Close range shooting is practice to repelling an attacker in your home. Rapid fire at close range. Its the only reason to own a firearm for many people.

They don't hunt or target shoot. The gun is for protection only.

I think this is the reason my club range get little use with 1500 members. Some fire the gun 1 time a year, if that.

Then there is the old half blind guy that just wants to shoot his curio and relics. Can't hit the broad side of the barn. So the extra large target is moved closer. And 50 yards is to far to walk.

[Sig556r]

As long as they're safe, all we can do is either observe & let 'em be or just ask...if they're new to the sport, encourage them...if they got eyes or sighting issues, lend a hand...if practicing for cqb or other tactical purposes, observe as we may even learn...worst we can do is to be condescending, like mocking people who shoots 7-yd targets...

[1911sw45]

As long as they are safe, it does not matter if it's 1 foot or 2000 yards. At least they are shooting. Not everyone is a bench rest shooter or a shot gunner.

[Kraschenbirn]

Kind of like people shooting pistol at a whopping 7 yards.

Yesterday morning, I fired my regular 100 rounds from my 3" CCW at 7 and 10 yards...because if I ever need to use it, most likely the situation will be 'up close and personal'. Afterward, though, I switched to a 1911 for 25 & 50. At the same time I was shooting, there were a couple of fairly proficient IDPA guys getting in some practice...and none of their targets were set beyond 20 yards.

FWIW, none of the states I'm familiar with which require live-fire qualification for CCW require applicants to shoot at over 10 yards. (When I fired my Illinois qualification, the guy next to me was shooting a SIG226 and barely managed to keep the absolute minimum number of rounds...21 out of 30...on his target; a full-size B27 silhouette at 5, 7, and 10 yards: 10 rounds at each distance.)

Bill

[Walks]

The Public Range I have to go to has a minimum limit of 50yds at the Rifle Range which is a 200yd Range into a hill side.
The Pistol Range is 7yard minimum, 25yard maximum.

No lead mineing is allowed. It's a Privately run Range on National Forest Land.
Neither are steel gongs/plates.
Their is no Range Officer on weekdays.
Weekends are scary.

It's my only Choice.

[Petander]

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[Lloyd Smale]

Some ask me why I shoot my ars at 200 yards or 44 and 45 colt pistols at 500-1000 yards. Because its fun. Realisticly what there doing probably makes more sense then sitting on a bench with bags trying to shoot moa groups. If there practicing self defence which by the look of there target they are. there not going to be shooting bad guys at even 50 yards. 7 yards is even a bit of a stretch for a civilian using a firearm to defend himself. Guess it comes down to this. THERE SHOOTING! there not playing golf, bat mitten, or crocket. There not doing a wine tasting tour. There doing what I love and I say do it anyway you want but "JUST DO IT"

[AllanD]

Worrying about how others amuse themselves is what a lot of people DO.
Like worrying about how another man likes his steak cooked is of infinite fascination to some people.

However I am forever amused by the "Tacticool" crowd playing at being a sniper, complete with a spotter calling the fall of their shots, and consistently MISSING a 12" square gong plate at 300meters and every time the spotter calls "miss" I hit the plate with my 223rem varmint rifle OFFHAND. Most days I WALK to the range, at my mailbox I'm already a third of the way there... (there is ONE house between my house and my club range)

[Echo]

The rifle shoots in an arc. For most rifles if you sight them in at 25yrds they will be on target at 100yrds. I always sight mine in with a new scope like that. Most AR combat rifles are for close in enough that if you sight them in for that distance they will hit what you are aiming at within reason.

Bingo - I always start sighting in at 25 yards...

[kevin c]

I've been shooting pistol for 25 odd years, and a look at my reloading logs plus a conservative estimate of the amount of rimfire bought and shot says I've put about a quarter million rounds down range. Practice for accuracy was and still is a significant part of what I still do at the range, and I can hit what I aim am at if I do my part. But the first year I picked up a pistol? Yeah, I could miss a seven yard silhouette, especially rapid fire. The targets only got backed up once I could hit them consistently.

With iron sights and the velocity range expected with the pistols used in action pistol, it's common to sight in at 15 to 17 yards and have the same zero at 25 yards. Easier on my old eyes too.

At my range, all shots must impact an appropriate backstop, which is 99% of the time the back berm. Anybody missing and shooting blue sky or green grass at any target distance gets stopped ASAP, nor are they allowed to set up so shots passing through their targets do the same.

[OldBearHair]

We were lined up shooting the first round of six when getting my first CCL, when all of a sudden a boolit hole appeared right between the eyes of my target. All my shots were in the center mass (B27). The guy to my right did have some of the six shots on paper, no bullseyes. Two range guys, one standing there shaking his head when I looked at him, the other guy was more than amply engaged with two young women on the far left of the line who had never shot before. All their boolits were center mass. Big man on my left was sort of key holing the shots dead center and didn't open up much at the longer distances. I was awed at shooting so close.
When I lived in NM at the Boys Ranch, early on we had rattlesnakes invading the campus and I used my bow and arrow to dispatch them. Taught the boys how to shoot and Sunday after the noon meal we hit the 52 target range across the highway from the campus in sandy sage brush. We diligently practiced shooting at "1 " yard at our feet. Then we might encounter a Western Diamondback and it didn't live long. I had a special arrow that I carried along with a moon crescent broadhead 1 1//4 inches wide for the snake shot. Then maybe a shout would ring out, "I got him Pop" and hold up the arrow with a small snake on the end of it. The rule was to get back away and call for reinforcements when there was a "big" one.
When hog bowhunting, I carry my 44mag Vaq in a modified rug under the left armpit. Loaded with 300 gr Lee sledgehammer type and then choose a spot on a stump or similar object very close , unzip , draw, fire using the left hand on the hammer, no aiming sights,one shot and done. Until I come to next stump. Surprisingly accurate. I have seen a hog shot poorly with an arrow charge the hunter on UTube. I was walking on a trail on the lease when I saw where the hogs were rubbing on some small pine trees. Measured the height of the mud one to 4 inches above my waistline. I am thinking the hog cannot reach all the way up to the top of it's back, approximately eight inches higher. That makes it to be a pretty big pig. I have seen accomplished bowhunters miss an easy grouse,rabbit, squirrel, etc. at very close range they have not practiced. My youngest son stated it well . He says that only perfect practice makes perfect. The other side of that is poor practice makes what? I am a sort of vintage bowhunter starting in earnest 1965. Please excuse me, I have to go fill up the feeder and set up a camera.

[OldBearHair]

Sure enjoy reading the pros and cons on the posts in Cast Boolits. And maybe come to a better conclusionl

[Boolseye]

Whatever floats your boat, as long as you’re not putting anyone in danger.
The .223 at 25 yards can be fun. Does quite a number on cans.


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[EDG]

A lot of people want the instant feed back of seeing where they hit. When they are close they can see where the bullets hit easily. Put your target at 50 yards and further out and you cannot see the bullet placement without a scope of some sort. Few people want to stop shooting and go down range just to see bullet holes especially when they do not know the order they hit.

There are a lot of reasons to shoot up close. Ask any plinker. I often shoot wood blocks made by cutting 4 inch long pieces off of 2X4 lumber scraps. They jump around well when shot with a .22LR.

[CastingFool]

I once shot a woodchuck with my. 223 at a whopping 12 yds. It made for a very satisfying kill, I got to see the immediate effects. OTH, I had a shot at another woodchuck at 55 yds with a bolt action 22 rimfire. Its head barely showed above the tall grass. At the shot, the head dropped down, and I could see the grass waving back and forth. I found the woodchuck stone dead, right next to a hole. Very satisfying experience also.