Wet Tumbler Recommendations ?

[Earl Brasse]

Looking to start wet tumbling with stainless pins & looking for opinions on who makes "the-best overall".

I had found a good thread somewhere here but just can't seem to find it now.

I shoot mainly Black Powder cartridge in Cowboy Action & over time the build up is enough to require primer pocket cleaning.
(currently dry tumble in a large Dillon)

I see a bunch of folks use Frankfort Arsenal but am wondering if that is the answer or if there is something that might cost a little more but...

built better, maybe last longer, motor etc.

hold more cases (mainly 44-40 Winchester)

or have other better features.

Frankfort Arsenal ?
Thumbler Extreme Rebel?

Pros- cons- others-betters????
Thanks

[salpal48]

Buy a lortone, Thumler or Diamond pacific . they last forever. no plastic, no junk.

[JimB..]

Isn’t STM a sponsor? I have one, it turns more slowly than the FART and is much quieter. More capacity, so gets more done more quickly and quietly. I think they have 17lb and 45lb drums.

[Baja_Traveler]

I've had a Thumblers Tumbler B for decades and it is still running strong. When I started shooting BPCR I found that the ceramic media worked much better than the STM stainless pins in removing black powder fouling. The STM pins tended to make the brass clean, but a dark brown color that never happens with the ceramic.

[Abert Rim]

Happy with my Thumler's, too. I have a couple of Lortones for polishing agates and they are the berries for that.

[Budzilla 19]

Frankfort Arsenal for two years now, not a problem or complaint. Just my .02

[Leadmad]

5 years with the Frankfort Arsenal and still using the same pins it came with 25 k a year average brass cleaned and works like the day I got it, Im sure you will sell your dry tumblers once you start using wet system

[XDROB]

Frankford Arsenal.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[winelover]

Forty plus years on a Model B Thumbler......

Winelover

[ioon44]

I have forty plus years on a Model B Thumler's Tumbler also.

[kokomokid]

I liked my RCBS till the plastic driven wheels wore slick. Get a thumblers.

[jmort]

FART rightly gets great reviews
Other good options
I like my FART

[Nam62]

Been using the Frankfort Arsenal for a year and NO problems. I love the way the brass come's out!

[Conditor22]

I like to DIY so I made my own. There are several designs and plans around CB and Youtube

[georgerkahn]

I stalled and stalled and stalled -- til I one day said "chuck it -- I'm gonna' have me one of those wet pin tumblers." I found a package at Buffalo Arms -- Thumlers Model B, with stainless pins -- and have never looked back! I do believe I on occasion I do overload mine a bit, and reading many post re short belt life invested in two spare/extra drive belts. It's been many years, and many thousand cases cleaned -- and the original belt is still on it! The only "addition" -- primarily because I'm admittedly a tad OCD -- I bought an extra bag of pins -- those little devils do slowly seem to disappear -- but haven't used more than a tablespoon full or two. The Thumlers has my highest recommendation!
geo

[XDROB]

How does everyone handle the pins after tumbling?

I dump the brass into a hand turned (sifter) previously used to clean the walnut media out of the cleaned brass. That sits on a 5/6 gallon bucket. Pins and water goes to the bottom. On the side of the bucket I taped two straight magnets to the side. As I dump the water out the pins stick to the magnets. After that I just let them dry in the bucket. To move them after drying I bought the magnet handler from FA that allows you to pick them up and move them to the bag they came in.

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[oldhenry]

I bought a Lortone from Paul Jones in 1980. The price was high then & they're high now, but I've never regretted that purchase. It's on the 2nd. belt. It just keeps on going.

[rcslotcar]

Model B Thumler's Tumbler!! After cleaning I use two plastic trays from the 99 cent store to separate the pins. The top tray is a flat bottom strainer, the bottom holds water above the cases. I swish the media/cases around till all the pins fall into the lower tray. I have over loaded my Tumbler several times and it hasn't failed yet.

[onelight]

Not saying there is not a better way but I use this case sorter / media separator and assorted magnets. To collect. The pins.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/reloading/case-cleaning/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/104661180/cabelas-rotary-brass-media-separator/2195139.uts?slotId=2
I do a series of rinses in the frankford Arsenal tumbler tub pouring the dirty water carefully into a 5 gal bucket when it is coming out clean pour pins and cases into the separator and it will spin out about 95% of the pins , the cases then get swished around in another rinse with the. ArmourAll rinse and shine as recommended here to help preserve the shine and they seem to run better trough a carbide sizer with the trace of wax left on them and most of the remaining pins will be in the bottom of the final rinse bucket pour out on a towel grab all four corners and roll them around to dry the outside spread and leave over night or warm with a blow dryer to finish . I start with deprimed brass.
The case sorter works pretty well to separate 9 ,40 and 45 that are mixed when brought home.

[Kevin Rohrer]

I much prefer my Tumbler Tumbler over a vibratory cleaner. Would never switch back.

[Mal Paso]

I have the STM 17 pound model which is similar to Thumlers but the shafts are 1/2 inch and the bearings are sealed ball rather than plastic bushings. Also will handle more brass.

I got the kit which includes a separator. If you fill the bottom half of the separator 2/3 to 3/4 full of water and spin the cage full of brass IN THE WATER 99.9% of the pins will be out in 10 rotations.

If you spin the brass damp, not immersed, water surface tension holds the pins inside the brass.

[salpal48]

When it comes to tumblers , reloaders always get short changed. reloading tumblers are the bottom of the barrel as rotary tumbles go and junk as vibratory machines. Companies know loaders are penny wise and pound foolish.
Most rock tumbler companies compete with each other to give the customer a better product.. reloading brass is lite weight compared to rocks.. In a Lortone 12Lb machine you can only get appox 300 cases (30-06) @ 2.2 lb. per 100 that about 6.6 Lb +media. with rocks you can get 10lb of Rock and 2lb, of Slurry. to tumble.That why lortones have 1/2 " steel shafts. Thumlers use 1/4 " but there ok also. diamond Pacific use 5/8 to 3/4 steel shafts. motors range from 1/20 hp to 1/4 Hp.
Reloaders are Happy to dump them when the go . rock tumblers repair them time after time.
I have had my first lortone since the mid 1960. it has never failed.
my motto is Buy once

[Pete44mag]

Have used a Frankford Arsenal for over three years. Clean about 20,000 cases per year, never a problem. Just my 2 cents.

[tinsnips]

Lortone best price THE ROCK SHED keystone South Dakota

[Ranger 7]

Have two RCBS Sidewinders, been using for over 12 years now. Work great! Never a problem. Use for both wet & dry tumbling.
Obtained two spare drive belts, but have yet to need one!

[NyFirefighter357]

I have the large F.A.R.T. a HF double tumbler and another that I built. be aware that Frankford now sells 2 sizes don't buy the small cheaper one if you want the big one. I wouldn't buy another tumbler after I built mine in a little over an hour from stuff I had. I used a Bosch wiper motor & a lap top power supply to power it. I also have the chart for the amount of different brass that will fit in the large F.A.R.T. tumbler. Whichever one you get make sure you also get the Media Transfer Magnet.

https://i.imgur.com/5k54jx0h.jpg

[Mica_Hiebert]

I have a thumblers model b that I bought second hand. It works awesome but if it ever dies I will be buying the rebel 17 tumbler it looks to be a much stouter design and hold more weight. Also if you have Facebook look into Southern shine media they only sell on Facebook, but it is stainless chips instead of pins they dont get stuck in rifle case necks or primer holes and still work great. Also slightly cheaper than pins.

[Earl Brasse]

Great info guys. This is a big help.

[kevin c]

I've used my FART for about a year and like it a lot. I skip the pins; the outside of the case looking good and the inside clean enough suits me just fine without the hassle of pin recovery, which I tried exactly once.

[JeepHammer]

Depends on your volume of cases and budget limitations...

Admittedly, I'm higher volume than most...

https://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag58/JeepHammer1/IMG_0994_zpsmed3vvnx.jpg

Concrete mixers are about as 'Industrial Built' as you can buy, they are ready to hold water, dump your cases/pins like they do concrete.
I've seen them from $200 at Horror Freight or used as little as $100.
I bought the plastic drum version in the picture for $300 at Lowe's.

I started with a $10 igloo thermos with screw on lid rolling it around in the yard to see how things came out.
I used an ice cream maker for a while since it was motor driven and cost $20 off eBay.
This doesn't have to be stupid expensive for smaller volume...

A tip for the new folks,
You DO NOT need stainless pins or chips if the brass isn't corroded.
While pins will eventually remove dark corrosion, the firing crud comes off with just soap & water,
See the brass in the picture above.

Stainless CHIPS work better & faster than pins.
I think it's 'Southern Shine' that makes chips, the edges on the chips work MUCH faster on both the inside & outside of the case than pins do.

I drain water out, tumble brass and drain again to get water out of cases,
Then I throw dry polish media in with the DAMP brass and tumble to polish.
Wash in soap & water, use dry POLISH media to polish and dry the brass.

Cleaning & polishing are two separate steps, and the polish media lasts MUCH longer when the brass is washed first.
The DAMP (not holding water) brass keeps dust down,
And just the sun will dry media if it gets too wet.

Doing it this way, no separate drying step/equipment for the brass.

I use a 5 gallon bucket and saturated sponges for case lube.
Sponges keep the lube out of the inside of the cases.

Another tip,
If you intend to wash and then store brass until you use it, knock the primer out first.

Water will corrode primers into the case making them very hard to knock out and damaging primer pockets.
If you wash with primer in the case like have to, then dry, lube & process the brass in short order, getting the primer out so the pocket can dry without corrosion.

[AnthonyB]

I have Thumlers, Rebel, and FA. The FA is the only one being used now.
Tony

[Earl Brasse]

Jeephammer that looks alot like work, & if I'm reading the pallet... more than a ton of work. thanks for the info.

[durango]

I just read a similar post on savage shooters. This is my reply/comments:

When the wet tumbling first got started, I was intrigued but noticed the peening on the surface of the brass and decided not to jump into the process. Shortly afterward, I saw an ad for pins that had rounded ends instead of clipped-or sharp-ends. Later, when I got my old rock tumbler running, I couldn't find the ad for the rounded end pins. Has anyone else heard of these pins? Seems that they might be the answer to the peening of the surface of brass.

After reading this thread and the idea of 'seasoning' the new pins, I thought--how about running the pins with something like steel BBs? Or a more aggressive compound--would rock tumbling media do anything to smooth off the edges? I'm still curious--what are your thoughts?

Most importantly, does anyone know where the 'rounded end' pins can be purchased??

Lastly, RE: HF sonic cleaner-I have the small one and it does a good job on cleaning but the batches are awfully small--15 or 20 .223s at a time. The worst thing about the HF model is that the timer is factory set to 9 or 10 minutes, so you have to babysit the thing and keep resetting the timer to get a longer run time.

Thanks for your attention, Steve

I hereby submit the same comments on this site. Any responses are welcome!!

Thanks again, Steve

[XDROB]

Durango
Most importantly, does anyone know where the 'rounded end' pins can be purchased??

You could look at Southern Shine media. It is stainless chips instead of pins. I have not made the move to them yet, but going to when I start my next tumbling cycle. They only sell on FB. Easy to find them there.

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[JeepHammer]

For the 'Penny Wise' folks that missed it,
I got a used ice cream maker off eBay for $20.
Over a gallon capacity, stainless drum, common 110 vac motor.
The ice bucket let me attach 'Legs' (bent angle brackets) to lean the drum over, and the ice bucket also caught slops out of the drum.

It ran about 4 days a week, for about 4 years before the motor gave up.
I hung a kitchen mixer motor (from Goodwill) on it and still use it once in a while to this day.
By the time the motor gave up, I had started using a concrete mixer since I had taken up speed rifle along with handgun, and the one thing you never do is tumble 9mm & 223 together...
Pins, chips or dry media, the cases will nest if you tumble them together.

[JeepHammer]

Durango
Most importantly, does anyone know where the 'rounded end' pins can be purchased??

You could look at Southern Shine media. It is stainless chips instead of pins. I have not made the move to them yet, but going to when I start my next tumbling cycle. They only sell on FB. Easy to find them there.


The best pins I've used came from Guntap.com , but they aren't 'Cheap'.

Tapered/rounded ends and the length don't let the pins wedge in cases, the diameter let's them pass through any flash hole.

https://shop.guntap.com/stainless-steel-tumbling-pins-media-0-255-x-0-047/

[durango]

The best pins I've used came from Guntap.com , but they aren't 'Cheap'.

Tapered/rounded ends and the length don't let the pins wedge in cases, the diameter let's them pass through any flash hole.

https://shop.guntap.com/stainless-steel-tumbling-pins-media-0-255-x-0-047/

Thanks for the comment/link. I perused their site and was pleased to find the answers to several questions. Unfortunately, one of my questions was about small diameter case necks since all of my rifles (and 4 handguns) are .243 and smaller and Guntap says not to use on cases smaller than .25 cal. Then, I noted your massive load of .223 brass. Are smaller necks really that much of a problem?

What is your rinse/dry procedure? Do you do a final dry tumble to insure all pins have fallen out?

[Alstep]

Built my own. Works great.

242639

[Sig556r]

+1 on Thumler's Tumbler model B which I bought used. No SS pins, just plain old dw soap & a tad of lemishine...easy drying under hot, humid Texas summer skies...I don't decap prior either & haven't seen that bad corroded primers yet...maybe I size them soon enough...I also run my FART sparingly if too wet or too cold outside...

[25ring]

How does everyone handle the pins after tumbling?

I dump the brass into a hand turned (sifter) previously used to clean the walnut media out of the cleaned brass. That sits on a 5/6 gallon bucket. Pins and water goes to the bottom. On the side of the bucket I taped two straight magnets to the side. As I dump the water out the pins stick to the magnets. After that I just let them dry in the bucket. To move them after drying I bought the magnet handler from FA that allows you to pick them up and move them to the bag they came in.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Use a media separator for separating the brass and pins.Then dump the pins into a 5gal bucket lined with a 5gal paint strainer bag.You can rinse the pins out in the bag and hang it from the handle to dry.

[JimB..]

I just read a similar post on savage shooters. This is my reply/comments:

When the wet tumbling first got started, I was intrigued but noticed the peening on the surface of the brass and decided not to jump into the process. Shortly afterward, I saw an ad for pins that had rounded ends instead of clipped-or sharp-ends. Later, when I got my old rock tumbler running, I couldn't find the ad for the rounded end pins. Has anyone else heard of these pins? Seems that they might be the answer to the peening of the surface of brass.

After reading this thread and the idea of 'seasoning' the new pins, I thought--how about running the pins with something like steel BBs? Or a more aggressive compound--would rock tumbling media do anything to smooth off the edges? I'm still curious--what are your thoughts?

Most importantly, does anyone know where the 'rounded end' pins can be purchased??

Lastly, RE: HF sonic cleaner-I have the small one and it does a good job on cleaning but the batches are awfully small--15 or 20 .223s at a time. The worst thing about the HF model is that the timer is factory set to 9 or 10 minutes, so you have to babysit the thing and keep resetting the timer to get a longer run time.

Thanks for your attention, Steve

I hereby submit the same comments on this site. Any responses are welcome!!

Thanks again, Steve

Maybe I’ve always just locked into some special pins, but I’ve never seen peening. Have any photos?

[RogerDat]

Another vote for Frankford Arsenal. At my volume (modest few k a year) I expect it will provide good service for a long time.

I fill with rinse water and dump slowly so as not to dump pins, repeat until water is clear. Then put the FA slotted lid on and shake the pins out into a 5 gallon bucket. I still have to invert and tap each case to prevent hold out pins. The FA magnet can detect some cases with pins in them so I do the brass cases that try to stick to the magnet first. I still do 100% check for pins. Do not want some pin taking up case space when it is loaded. Never find very many after shaking the pins out of the brass through the slotted top for the FA drum.

I guess it depends on volume of brass and if you think you will get the number of years use out of a piece of equipment to justify the price. If one has to live to biblical age to get the 40 years life out of a high end tumbler it might not be a good investment. I picked up my Frankford Arsenal used for about 1/2 the price of new. I then proceeded to deprime and wet tumble almost all my existing brass. If it goes I would buy another one, maybe new.

[John Boy]

Buy a Lortone, Seven years with no issues and 1000's of cases ... still runs as new. Drum sizes are your option

[Lead pot]

I have two tumblers tumbler B wore one out with there rubber lining and nylon bearings gave out. Bought another and after a couple years the barrel started leaking from rust and again the bearings started rattling but it's stillll going from parts from the first. Three years ago I got the Frankfort Arsenal and it has a larger capacity and I use it the most. I use a mix of SST pins and ceramic in both units. I have no complaints with both types. But I like the Arsenal better.

[durango]

Maybe I’ve always just locked into some special pins, but I’ve never seen peening. Have any photos?

Jim--Try this: www.savageshooters.com Go to forum, then to ammunition and reloading, then to the first or second thread under the stickies. Sorry that I don't know how to post a link. Steve

[Mica_Hiebert]

I have two tumblers tumbler B wore one out with there rubber lining and nylon bearings gave out. Bought another and after a couple years the barrel started leaking from rust and again the bearings started rattling but it's stillll going from parts from the first. Three years ago I got the Frankfort Arsenal and it has a larger capacity and I use it the most. I use a mix of SST pins and ceramic in both units. I have no complaints with both types. But I like the Arsenal better.

You can buy all of those replacement parts for the thumblers

[JimB..]

Jim--Try this: www.savageshooters.com Go to forum, then to ammunition and reloading, then to the first or second thread under the stickies. Sorry that I don't know how to post a link. Steve

Thanks, sadly that forum doesn’t allow folks to browse and I’m not inclined to join another. For now I’ll just have to be satisfied with my good fortune!

[lightman]

I used a Thumlers for years and finally bought a Big Dawg for more capacity. Its expensive but heavy duty.

[doulos]

Thumblers B for about 18 years now. Bought it when I was shooting black powder cartridge so I could wet tumble with ceramic. Have also used it with corn cob media and now just tumbled about 1500 pieces of brass with stainless pins. Its great. It can be used with any dry media not just wet. Very durable. You can let your kids or grandkids polish rocks in it too. You wont need to buy anything else for a long time.

[doulos]

I have two tumblers tumbler B wore one out with there rubber lining and nylon bearings gave out. Bought another and after a couple years the barrel started leaking from rust and again the bearings started rattling but it's stillll going from parts from the first. Three years ago I got the Frankfort Arsenal and it has a larger capacity and I use it the most. I use a mix of SST pins and ceramic in both units. I have no complaints with both types. But I like the Arsenal better.

Im surprised actually about the barrel leaking. The liner must have been bad from the get go.
And yes the Frankford Arsenal looks huge. Ive never seen one in person but It looks like a good machine.

[Iron369]

Im surprised actually about the barrel leaking. The liner must have been bad from the get go.
And yes the Frankford Arsenal looks huge. Ive never seen one in person but It looks like a good machine.

This picture kinda shows the Franklin tumbler for a size reference. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190605/1b574c28c32c03a875c8e5b170df069b.jpg

[onelight]

I have theFranklin tumbler and the steel pins that came with it , have 10 or 12K cases though it and not seen anything resembling peening just new looking cases.

[Conditor22]

Friends wet tumbler
https://i.imgur.com/qOSyMY3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/08cAvVu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OrADFWC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/K75cNCY.png

[winelover]

With all that rust................it must leak, pretty bad.:kidding:

Winelover

[Guncrank]

As the many other gentlemen have stated the FART is a good machine and will clean a whole lot of brass in very short order!
However, Frankford/Battenfield Technology's 1 year warranty leaves a lot to be desired!

Strongly recommend you go to their website and read the terms-conditions of the "warranty" before spending the long buck... On any Frankford item.

GC

[Guncrank]

I just read a similar post on savage shooters. This is my reply/comments:

When the wet tumbling first got started, I was intrigued but noticed the peening on the surface of the brass and decided not to jump into the process. Shortly afterward, I saw an ad for pins that had rounded ends instead of clipped-or sharp-ends. Later, when I got my old rock tumbler running, I couldn't find the ad for the rounded end pins. Has anyone else heard of these pins? Seems that they might be the answer to the peening of the surface of brass.

After reading this thread and the idea of 'seasoning' the new pins, I thought--how about running the pins with something like steel BBs? Or a more aggressive compound--would rock tumbling media do anything to smooth off the edges? I'm still curious--what are your thoughts?

Most importantly, does anyone know where the 'rounded end' pins can be purchased??

Lastly, RE: HF sonic cleaner-I have the small one and it does a good job on cleaning but the batches are awfully small--15 or 20 .223s at a time. The worst thing about the HF model is that the timer is factory set to 9 or 10 minutes, so you have to babysit the thing and keep resetting the timer to get a longer run time.

Thanks for your attention, Steve

I hereby submit the same comments on this site. Any responses are welcome!!

Thanks again, Steve

Steve,

From all the investigations and reading on the subject of Peening on the surface of brass that I've done, the consensus is that it is a good thing. This because the peening imparts a random surface texture that inhibits the formation of micro cracks, which is the precursor to case failure.

However, from personal experience, the formation of peening of the case mouth is a real nuance and needs to be considered when washing/tumbling cases! This case mouth peening is a function of a couple factors...
1. Case size and mass. Larger-heavier cases = quicker, more severe peening of the case mouth.
2. Time spent in the washing machine. Longer was cycles = more severe case mouth peening.

What is happening that causes the case mouth's to be beat up?
In order to be cleaned, the cases are necessarily banging around in the tumbler, and when the case mouth of case A hits case B with a hard steel pin in between the two, wham-o a small mar is made to case A's mouth. Wash rinse repeat for several hours and you have a batch of brass that is in need of chamfering and deburring before you can properly run them through the sizing die.

So, it is strongly recommended that no matter which washing machine you choose, keep cycle times to the minimum necessary to yield the cleaning results desired/required. In short the larger and heavier the case, the shorter should be the wash time in order to minimize peening of the case mouth. Or, just expect that there will be some amount of deformation of the case mouth's and deal accordingly with it.

Should choose the home-brew route, I recommend two design criteria... First keep the RPM of the machine's wash drum to less than 60, but greater than 30.
Second, the baffles, paddles or agitator design inside the wash drum, I recommend they be made of a softer material. Do not use metal as that will enhance/speed peening of the cases.

All the above is observed from my personal experience washing countless thousand's of cases for well over 10 years now. This with several types-brands of machines both commercial as well as home-brew.

GC

[iomskp]

I looked at buying a wet tumbler years ago I think they were about $140.00 US plus about $40.00 freight, here in Australia they were about $500.00 AU when our dollar was about $1.10 US, I don't mind paying but if they are going to screw me at least kiss me first, so I made one out of bits and pieces I had in my shed, I can only do about 400 at a time but it has been going strong for about twenty years

[Ramson222]

I have the lyman wet tumbler. So far I have tumbled about 6000 cases. I like it because of the thick rubber ling and its large capacity. The only problem I have ever had with it was my fault. I overloaded it with a bunch of cast round ball. Thinking it could be used to remove the flat spot left from cutting the spruce. The fan that cools the motor ended up losing a blade. However it still works fine. I might call lyman to get a replacement someday.

[Earl Brasse]

Anyone have an MJR Tumbler?

[rmantoo]

I have used a thumblers tumbler for over 10 years and am happy that I've never had a problem with it.

That said, I wish Big Dawg was still making tumblers: When I have to clean, sometimes, almost 100lbs it takes quite a while in the small tumblers.