.45/70 Smokeles loads

[jednorris]

I am shooting a 405 gr. cast bullet in a .45/70 and want to shoot smokeless. I have tried IMR 3031 and IMR 4198 and both leave lots of unburned powder in the barrel. My gun has a standard barrel and thus kicks harder. I need to find a powder that burns clean without much recoil. Any suggestions on powder or load ?.

[john.k]

I never found the powders mentioned didnt burn clean.......as to kick.....they take yer head off.......i think you are wanting mild to very mild loads......a casefull of Trailboss is very low kick,and low vel too......simple laws of physics says you cant launch a 400gn very fast without getting a pounding at the other end.......this is why 22 rimfires are so popular as opposed to 45 s.

[NSB]

I shoot Rel7, 4198, and 2400 a lot. None of them leaves any powder in the barrel. Don't know why your's does? The only powder I used that left some residue was 5744, but it never got any worse after the first shot. Guess each subsequent shot helped clean it out.

[Winger Ed.]

I use 3031 and 4198 for cast mid range loads and it does a good job for me.

When anything burns, it leaves an ash, that's normal. Generally, it cleans right out and doesn't hurt anything.
Powder is often graphite coated, and that leaves a residue, but it is also a lubricant as the next boolit comes through it.

[Toymaker]

AA 5744, something around 23.5 grains. If you can find it IMR SR 4759 is good too. While this load had a filler you don't need it.
242329

[Norske]

"Factory equivalent" 400 gr load is 38.5 grains of IMR 3031. It groups inside a over-the-counter Remington load, and kicks no more. Don't confuse ash with unburned powder. Sweep up some of that stuff on your shooting bench and see if you can ignite it with a match.

[Baja_Traveler]

16 grains of trailboss is my standard silhouette load - mild enough in the lever gun to shoot all day, but with enough oomph to knock down the 200 yard rams every time.

[Larry Gibson]

You might read; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers ......especially post #2.

Then consider 35 gr of IMR3031 with a Dacron filler in your rifle. Here is 5 shots at 100 yards out of my H&R M1873 Officer's Model trapdoor which has a "commercial" .458" groove diameter barrel. Velocity was 1179 fps which basically duplicates the carbine 45-55 load.

242337

Here's 25 gr 5744 w/Dacron filler at 1226 fps

242338

Here's 36 gr IMR4895 w/Dacron filler at 1391 fps.

242339

All of these medium burning range powders will leave some residue in the barrel when used at the low end pressures such as these. These loads develop 22-25,000 psi (measured) which is under the SAAMI MAP for trapdoor equivalent actions. The use of the Dacron filler promotes better ignition and more uniform burning at those lower psi's. It also negates powder position sensitivity. Bullets used are 400 - 413 gr cast.

[pjames32]

I have used Larry Gibson's loads with good results. I prefer the AA5744 load for my rolling block with a bit of Dacron filler.

[Bent Ramrod]

My standard light fun shooting smokeless load in my Garrett Sharps Carbine was the Ideal 457124 ahead of ~13 gr of Unique.

Low velocity, low recoil, position insensitive (as far as I could tell, plinking offhand), accurate enough at 200 yards, and the boolit still landed with a certain “authority.”

Lighter boolits like the 457191 and the Gould hollowpoint seemed to get pretty erratic after 75-100 yards, so recoil reduction via reduced boolit weight seemed to be a matter of diminishing returns.

[mikwat]

I use H322 in mine, but like you I have issues with unburnt powder...even with the filler.

[cb4017]

What kind of velocity are you looking for? I use 12 gr of Unique with a 405 gr cast bullet. Great mild shooting plinking load and gives me about 1050 fps from my 18" barrel Marlin. If I want a little more grunt I use 28 gr of 4198 with the same bullet. Velocity is around 1250 and still fun to shoot.

[454PB]

My "go to" reduced load powder for 45/70 is Alliant Bluedot. In my Marlin Guide Gun, 16 grs. of Bluedot behind the Lee 405 grain chronographs at 1180 FPS from that 18.5" barrel. I use no fillers.

[40-82 hiker]

Go with AA5744 and forget about the unburned powder. Just plain forget about it... It goes with the pressure area of the loads at the levels under discussions, as others have already related.

As to Dacron filler: we have kicked that concept around recently, and Larry and others have made statements, that they HAVE backed up in practice themselves, that Dacron can be used in straight-wall casings. I was skeptical, but Larry, et. al, have pretty much turned the corner on me, in that I'm going to give it a go myself when we get some good weather, and my injuries coincide, to test out my loads with and without Dacron. Thanks Larry!

Bob

[Edward]

2400 with dacron filler with a RCBS 405 grain or NOE 350 gr works to 200yds and easy on recoil ,again see Larry Gibson"s sticky on fillers/Ed

[jughead76]

My favorite load in my 45-70 is a Lyman 385grn RNFP over varget. It leaves some unburnt powder in the barrel but it shoots so good I don’t want to change powders.

[sghart3578]

Another vote for Unique.

I load a Lee 340 gr bullet over 13 gr of Unique.

Accurate and easy.

[hockeynick39]

This is the load I use with a tuft of 1/2" x 1/2" dacron filler (fluffed). The target (3" round with 4" square) was shot at 50 yds with iron sights. The same load shoots just about where the Hornady ballistic chart shows, at least out to 200 yds anyway.

https://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%2050%20yd%20Target%20III%20001_z psxa8wwngu.jpg

[cwlongshot]

Any one loading a 425/430g boolit?

I have two a Lyman and a LEE RD.

Looking for 1500 max fps 12-1300 would be ideal.

CW

[EMC45]

This is the load I use with a tuft of 1/2" x 1/2" dacron filler (fluffed). The target (3" round with 4" square) was shot at 50 yds with iron sights. The same load shoots just about where the Hornady ballistic chart shows, at least out to 200 yds anyway.

https://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%2050%20yd%20Target%20III%20001_z psxa8wwngu.jpg

I wouldn't change a thing! Great Shooting!

[stubshaft]

27.0 grains of 2400 behind that 405 has been my plinking load for years.

[lawdog941]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[TCLouis]

Unique

[FPGT72]

Someone please explain the love of pistol powders like unique or trailboss.....in my research even the "plinking" loads have some pretty high pressures.

I did not catch what the OP is shooting, but I am shooting a trapdoor and want the pressures as low as I can get....started a thread here a while ago on this.....it seems to come up again and again.

In stronger guns that are not 100 plus years old....and you wanting to use as little powder as possible....ok I get that. 15 grains sounds better then 40 grains....cheaper also....but is cost the only reason.

[Norske]

Shotgun powders are designed to burn at much lower pressures/temperatures than rifle or even some handgun powders. Therefore, they burn cleaner with light powder charges. Just look at the peak chamber pressure of shotgun loads compared to handgun or rifle loads.

[454PB]

That's generally true, but there is a lot of cross over usage in shotgun and handgun powders. Bluedot for instance works best at relatively high chamber pressures. If used in .38 special loads at SAAMI pressures it's dirty, but boost it up to .357 magnum pressures and it burns clean. Yet, it's also a shotgun powder.