Shiloh Sharps or C Sharps or?

[omgb]

What's the story hear? They both seem to be in Big Timber. Who's first, best etc? Why are there two companies any way?

[Edward]

Lots of history there ,just a parting of the ways between principles . Easy to research ,and I got the C Sharp (used/available) now (45/70 ) 1874 and others shiloh (great gunmaker) makes them happy . Either maker is top shelf , circumstance and deep pockets will help you choose ! /Ed

[country gent]

Not sure on the "history" of the 2 companies mentioned as per who was first. I have a couple C Sharps rifles I use often. One is a Hepburn in 45-90 with upgraded wood a lovely rifle that's a very good shooter. The second is a High Wall in 38-55 with 1-12 twist barrel again an exceptionally accurate rifle. I have seen Shiloh's at matches and the range and they are great rifles also.
The big plus to me with these companies is the options you have when ordering the rifle. Not just in caliber but barrel weight contour and length. Sights are the same theres a whole selection available from tang mounted, barrel mounted, drilled and tapped for scope. Finish can be blued, case hardened ( pack hardened is an option here also), or a French finish. Wood can be a big decision in itself as there are different grades of finish, different grades of wood, Some of these can get pretty pricey, Then there are different types of wood. Some of the higher end Turkish walnuts are really nice. Also length of pull is a selection here. This and some other options makes for a rifle just what you want and how you want it.
The draw back to this is that cost goes up and the rifle is built to order so plan on a 8-10 week leade time from order to delivery.
Some others to look at in this same area are CPA ( Stevens 44 1/2 in several models) and DZ Arms ( Hepburn's and scopes) Again these are built to order with lots of options.

[Gunlaker]

I have several of each. If you want an 1885 then the choice is obviously C. Sharps, but if you want an 1874 then I'd go with Shiloh each and every day :-).

Chris.

[Lead pot]

I have 7 Shiloh's and I stopped 5 times down the street at C with the intend of ordering a C and left 5 times and placed the order at Shiloh. Attitude is important to me. But now there are different personnel behind the counter I hear and I still would like to have a high wall. But from seeing and handling the rifles Shiloh still has the wood and finish over C.

[LynC2]

What's the story hear? They both seem to be in Big Timber. Who's first, best etc? Why are there two companies any way?

I recently received a 1885 high grade rifle in 40-65 from C Sharps. The web site says 90-120 days. Well it was almost 9 months. Not a big deal as I expect a custom gun to take awhile. However I suggested they change their web site a couple of months ago to avoid confusion, they agreed it was a good idea...it hasn't been done yet. When I tried a reformed 45-70 in the rifle it wouldn't chamber, the chamber was too small at the rear. OK, so perhaps there is a difference in the brass so I ordered some 40-65 Starline. It wouldn't fit either. I had to grind .060" off my die to allow it to fit. After trying unsuccessfully to find something that grouped I got fed up and rented a Browning 40-65 reamer and rechambered it. Now to test more loads.
I ordered the xxx wood upgrade and asked about the possibility of sending me a picture of the wood to be used, no they can't do that but I would be happy. I would call it xx at best and the finish left a lot to be desired as the pores in the wood hadn't been filled. The wood to metal fit is excellent except for the forend which was inletted too deeply at the tip. The case hardening on the action is excellent and the action itself seems well made.
If I had it to do over again I would buy the MVA 1885 action and build it myself or see if I could get CPA to build it or someone else.
I'm not the only one either as I was emailing another C Sharps owner that is also on this site that has two C Sharps that he has sent back for issues and says neither one is fixed. Maybe he will add his two cents also.

[Dan Cash]

Against my advice, a friend of mine bought an 1885 from C. Sharps 3 or 4 years ago. He provided the sights for the rifle but when he took delivery, the dovetail for the front sight was cut too large and while the sight was installed, there was a lot of light showing under neath the dovetail cut. C. Sharps did offer to shorten the barrel and re cut the dovetail or fit one of their sights to the existing cut (the would charge for the sight). An unsatisfactory solution the their problem in my opinion.

[Gunlaker]

The people at C. Sharp have always treated me well over the years. I have no complaints about that. The people at Shiloh are more personable though, that's for sure :-). I do like their 1885's but have had a few issues with a few of mine. I'd choose a Shiloh 1874 over a C. Sharps 1874 mostly because the people at Shiloh build a better rifle. Some will probably dispute this, but it is the case with some of the ones I own. You can get a great rifle from either shop, but in my experience the odds are better with a Shiloh.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

I have two C Sharps 85's that are nothing short of fantastic. I do have two more rifles from C Sharps that are while not quite junk not far above it, they have both been back to CSA multiple times, the one spent the winter at a well known bpcr gunsmith, and seems to be fine, but I am hesitant to run it in a match, altho to date it has fired almost 100 rounds without a break down. The other is a huge disappointment , and while is shooting well, will shoot better once it gets to a gunsmith that can get the triggers tuned so that when it is set the trigger pull will be well below the 3-4 lbs it is now in the set position.
Another consideration when comparing a Shiloh and a CSA sharps, if you want sights on the gun when it arrives, the CSA rifle will incur and additional 96$ for the barrel sights, the Shiloh will have them.
Shiloh's customer service is fantastic, I have sent them used rifles with minor problems, and they have repaired them free of charge. One of them they had to replace the breechblock as the previous owner had shot the rifle so much the block was worn out. The block and lever came in the mail about 10 days after I sent it to them invoice marked no charge warranty work...

[LynC2]

The only negative I've ever heard about Shiloh is the long wait time, but to get a quality custom rifle I expect it.

[Gunlaker]

Just to balance this out a bit, as the story seems to be all negative so far, here are a couple of the 1885's that C. Sharps built for me. They are really nice and have the best wood I've ever had on C. Sharps rifles. They also shoot quite well ( although they have custom chambers ). One in .32-40 and one in .38-55.

I would order another of these if I needed one.

http://www.bcsingleshot.com/tmp/CSA-1885.JPG

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

But here is the reason that I'd recommend a Shiloh 1874. My rifles have shot lots of similarly good targets. 300 yards prone, 12 shots.

http://www.bcsingleshot.com/tmp/Shiloh_40-65.jpg

Chris.

[Lead pot]

Chris those 85's are nice looking shooters.

The last time I was in their shop I wanted to order a 85 and I was talking to John on what I wanted and caliber. I told him I had a reamer cloned from an original .44-90 BN I wanted to use and I had a .44 Krieger barrel blank I would like you to use. John's reply was "I would not put that s..t barrel on my action" I walked out of the shop.

I just won another Krieger barrel certificate at the Lodi matches and it will be another .44 caliber using my .44-75 Ballard reamer for this project and I will use a MVA 85 action and tree bone wood.

[Gunlaker]

I've heard that John can be a little prickly, but that is downright strange. A few years ago he hired a guy named Pete who is much better at customer relations :-).

Chris.

[LynC2]

I forgot to mention whoever chambered the rifle needs to learn to pull out the reamer occasionally to clear out the chips as my chamber had a radial gouge in it. I built. many BR, HP, 1000 yd rifles and F class rifles years ago including the 6mm BR F Class team Captain Larry B used to set a 1,000 yd group record with. After I stopped gunsmithing, he had BR gunsmith Speedy Gonzalez do a couple of bbl jobs for him, but later said mine easily out shot them. Not bragging, just so you know that I know what I am talking about.

[Don McDowell]

Chris Pete has been gone for a couple of years
Pat is running the shop now he’s a decent sort of fella but they have a hard time keeping good help and that would seem to be the problem in qc


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[LynC2]

[QUOTE=Don McDowell;4653037]Chris Pete has been gone for a couple of years
Pat is running the shop now he’s a decent sort of fella but they have a hard time keeping good help and that would seem to be the problem in qc"

That could certainly be part of their problems as when I spoke to Donna there, she mentioned they had just recently hired a replacement gunsmith. Regardless, there should never be a firearm shipped that wasn't up to spec. It will always wind up biting ones ***.
BTW, I paid the total amount up front as I could afford it and thought it might help their cash flow.

[Gunlaker]

Chris Pete has been gone for a couple of years
Pat is running the shop now he’s a decent sort of fella but they have a hard time keeping good help and that would seem to be the problem in qc


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That's too bad. He was a nice guy to deal with.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Pat is a good guy to deal with but he's just swamped. Hopefully he can get some good help in the shop again.

[DW475]

I stopped by C Sharps in March. The customer service was great. Night and day different from my first visit to the shop several years ago. My wallet was quite a bit lighter when I walked out. Should see my 85 in 45-70 later this fall and hopefully in time to break it in on a mule deer hunt.

[LynC2]

I stopped by C Sharps in March. The customer service was great. Night and day different from my first visit to the shop several years ago. My wallet was quite a bit lighter when I walked out. Should see my 85 in 45-70 later this fall and hopefully in time to break it in on a mule deer hunt.

Good luck, hopefully they've gotten thdir act together and you'll be happy with it. I honestly hope so as we have far too few good custom gun makers making BP firearms!

[LynC2]

I just received an email from Gail at CPA about an inquiry about building a rifle on a hi wall. Unfortunately, and understandably they won't be able to do it anytime soon due to the workload. D**n good customer service as I only inquired 16 minutes ago!

[rfd]

pertaining to yer title's "... or ?", have you considered a pedersoli sharps or roller?

[sharps4590]

I have two Shiloh 74's and had three at one time. Two of my friends had/have C. Sharps while I've never owned one. However, after shooting with those two guys for several years and having shot each others rifles, my Shiloh's are better rifles than theirs and, they agree. That's a really, really limited comparison but it is the way it is here.

I THINK Shiloh was first with Wolfgang Droege in Farmingdale....but I have attained the age I might dis-remember.