Glyphosate - a carcinogen (or not)?

[Land Owner]

Not to interrupt or derail another "similar" Our Town thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?382031-Local-fella-mis-using-ag-spray, what do you think of the attempt to vilify glyphosate as a carcinogen through Class Action law suit (commercial gardeners, farmers, golf courses, etc)? The EPA says "it might be" though they haven't come out and labeled it as such, and from that "poisonous fruit" the ever-so-eager lawyers are attempting to "show cause" that Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma is the side effect of commercial spraying of glyphosate. Would that not necessitate wrongful use (as in not following the Mfg's label directions) in its application?

I have been using it for DECADES on my hobby food plots, or in advance preparation thereof, and as edge dressing for both hunting property and home "beautification" without so much as a sniffle.

I believe some folks are predisposed to some illnesses and that there can be found "circumstantial evidence" of just about anything.

[Hickory]

I never thought Roundup was safe, at least not to drink. Nor the claim that it became inert when it came in contact with soil.

[farmerjim]

I do not believe that it is a carcinogen. Lawyers can pick a dumb jury and convince them that anything is true. I just bought 15 more gallons of the 41% concentrate in case the idiot EPA pulls it off the market.

[NSB]

Lawyers didn't do the research that determined that glyphosate is a carcinogen. Anyone who argues the idea is free to use it if they want to. I still use it on my food plots, but my heads not up my butt in saying it's safe to use......there is a risk you take to use it. Statistically, you probably aren't going to get cancer if you use it with some common sense. What does happen is that your risk increases at each exposure. People love to be in denial about things they do that expose them to risk. I worked as an operations manager for several large corporations and I still can't believe the total avoidance to using safety practices that would protect from injury or serious illness. I spent years writing people up for handling solder and not using ANY saftey equipment of proper hygiene practices. All the people who argued that it was safe were the ones who tested high for lead. Duh! Glyphosate isn't going away, but use some common sense when applying it. I've seen people use an ATV mounted sprayer on the front of their machine instead of the rear. They drive right into the mist. Those same people don't even bother using a proper face mask. I have no doubt it's a carcinogen, most chemicals are at some exposure level. This one is more of a carcinogen at lower levels. You can either go into denial or use some common sense, your choice.
Note: Sorry for the lecture. In 99% of all the industrial safety accidents I investigated, the employee was avoiding using provided safety equipment or turning off guards, etc. True accidents are somewhat rare.

[bikerbeans]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5515989/

Answer depends on who you ask.

BB

[bedbugbilly]

I have used RU for years for weed control - not only in regards to our lawn (basically farmland) but it was used on our farm as well - I've used it for weed control on commercial property I own as well. Is it dangerous? I'm not qualified to give that answer but before people start screaming that the sky is falling, I'm a firm believer that an independent and objective study needs to be done on it and the results not whitewashed by special interests to let the public know for sure. One thing I do now, it is a heck of a lot better to use than the old 2-4-D the was used for years.

The Left and their "New Green Deal" wants to do away with cattle because the pass too much gas. Really? If they think that - then just imagine what they would want to do with such things as RU and other products that have become essential in agricultural production? OSC and her recipes aren't even smart enough to know where their food comes from or what is involved in feeding a whole nation of people in our country let along assisting in other countries.

Like I said though, if this is becoming a "new issue" in the terms of the use of RU, then it needs to be studied by qualified scientific individuals who can produce an unbiased summary and then go from there - and if it is dangerous - then somebody better be developing something else that performs the same job that isn't dangerous. For those fools out there that think the "guvment should do a study" - you are nothing but naive sheep. There are a lot of "young's" on this site who weren't around 55 or so years ago but there are a lot of Vets on here who were. "Agent Orange" was touted as "harmless" by Dow Chemical and the U.S. Government - tell that to those who were exposed to it and have since passed or are now suffering from the exposure they received in VN. I'm not a Vet . . .. but I have lost a number of friends as the result of them having been exposed to AO.

Sorry for the rant . . . but I get sick and tired of the pros and cons touted on the Internet, the ads for ambulance chasing sleazy attorneys whose ads ask, "Have you been exposed to Round Up?". If there is a question as to whether RU is dangerous, then let the independent research be done and the TRUE facts released to the public - the politicians may think that the average American is stupid, but I have confidence that most are intelligent enough to read an unbiased study and decide for themselves if they want to use it or not if it remains on the market.

[white cloud]

I buy the glyphosate concentrate in five gallon jugs for use on our timber tract. I follow directions. I don't worry about it. Glyphosate one of the most tested chemical in history? If they succeed in stopping the use of glyphosate in agriculture , there are going to be a lot of hungry people running around.

[mattw]

I never thought Roundup was safe, at least not to drink. Nor the claim that it became inert when it came in contact with soil.

I have been using roundup for decades as a farmer with dad and a gardener. In my testing, the product can be applied according to label directions and given 1 week to degrade before planting with no ill effects. Most chemicals will not allow that from testing, 2,4-D definitely will not allow for that without residual damage.

The world will not be a better place without Glyphosate. We are more and more depended upon in the midwest to produce 250 bushel corn and 70+ bushel beans, this will not happen if you can't control your weed bank.

Would I drink it... hell no! Will I use it, you bet! In days gone by, I think some of our chemicals were really bad to work with and be around. In the 70's and 80's we worked with Lasso, if you did not mask you did not feel good for a few days, Paraquat and DDT not good. 2,4-D, Roundup and some of the other designer herbicides are pretty good stuff.

[Froogal]

I'm 68 years old. I have used the product ever since it was introduced, and I've probably been exposed to it just as much as anyone and I've experienced NO problems. I live on an acreage in a very rural area. I'm surrounded by corn fields and soybean fields and there is a LOT of aerial spraying done out here. I don't drink it and I don't bathe in it.

[JimB..]

For the guys suggesting an honest study, might as well address climate change and the link between vaccinations and autism at the same time. As a society we are well past scientific truth, everything is about what the intentionally ignorant masses believe or what the government needs to show in order to implement the policy that it wants.

[Froogal]

For the guys suggesting an honest study, might as well address climate change and the link between vaccinations and autism at the same time. As a society we are well past scientific truth, everything is about what the intentionally ignorant masses believe or what the government needs to show in order to implement the policy that it wants.

Thankyou. I agree 100%.

[KCSO]

Bacon is too, I am attempting suicide by bacon, tried again this morning.

[oldred]

Ever since Round Up hit the market it has been stigmatized by the reputation of Agent Orange, whenever people saw any kind of herbicide the spectacle of, and an association with, Agent Orange was there either outright or subconsciously but folks ROUND UP IS NOT AGENT ORANGE! It is a completely different chemical and even if it wasn't Agent Orange itself was not the problem, the problems associated with Agent Orange were due to the contaminate it contained, this of course was the Dioxin which was not even supposed to be in the stuff. That matters little since Dioxin contaminated probably all of the Agent Orange that was manufactured.


I am not saying Round Up is safe or not since like most everyone else I simply don't know but it was tested extensively and has been under more scrutiny than most ag chemicals over the years because of the irrational, and mostly subconscious, fear that it is like Agent Orange. Dangerous? Maybe, maybe not but it's NOT Agent Orange and just because Round Up is a herbicide does not make it similar to Agent Orange in risks.

[popper]

Legal scam on Monsanto. Many herbicides in use - all say don't drink or bath with it. The real point is Monsanto has a lock on GMO seed that the UN doesn't like so they want to punish for GMO use. Ads on TV now say No GMO chickens (etc.) like YES, chickens are GMO - they have been breed to be layers or meat. Total ** by Bayer and UN. What do YOU call genetically breed dogs? GMO!! People are mostly idiots and will believe the media. Kinda like the plywood vapors or milk from cows that had some radiation - forget the name.

[Thundarstick]

The link between non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and farm chemical usage is well established, all farm chemicals carry a risk! The old school farmer's like my Granddaddy, didn't take any precautions! No respirators, protective clothing, or respect for exposure. My Granddaddy did indeed develop, and die from NHL. That said, you'll never convince me RU is in the same league as 2-4D, 2-45T, Treflan,Sudan, and several others I forge the names of, as far as being a carcinogen. The real issue is in proving that any one thing caused someone's cancer and not that this individual just developed cancer. Like the small cell carcinoma lung cancer victim that didn't smoke, work or live with smoker, cancer doesn't always have a cause.

[lightman]

All chemicals have the potential to be dangerous. You should follow the directions. Use rubber gloves when handling them, avoid contact with them, avoid breathing them. Like another poster said, common sense.

I live in farming country. I have corn less than 100ft out my back door right now. I try to stay out of the yard when they are spraying and for a little while afterwards. I'm really glad that Cotton has fallen out of favor around here. Cotton had to be sprayed more than most other crops and some of the chemicals were more dangerous.

I use 2 or 3 chemicals on personal stuff. RoundUp and pre-emerge on my Dove field. RoundUp on my Deer food plots. I use rubber gloves when mixing these and try to watch the wind direction and stay up wind when spraying.

The modern spray rigs around here have pressurized cabs, a luxury not available to a Deer, Duck or Dove farmer.

[1911sw45]

More than likely the ones that developed cancer, has used many types of chemicals in their life time. If one reads the label and uses it according to the label more than likely won't have any problems. But proving that RU caused their cancer is bull.

[gwpercle]

bacon is too, i am attempting suicide by bacon, tried again this morning.
like like like !!!

[Piedmont]

I don't want any poisons anywhere near me or my food. NOTHING gets put on my garden. If the bugs eat some plants that is my tough luck. If there are "weeds" they get pulled, not poisoned.

[1911sw45]

Then don't ever buy any products any where Piedmont. Don't drink your county or city water either.

[Land Owner]

Ooh. Testy subject. I don't believe - by empirical evidence - using it according to the Mfg's label instructions is subjecting me to a "carcinogen". If it was a carcinogen, the MSDS for glyphosate would say so. That it says


https://i.postimg.cc/kGdbs90c/Surfactants.jpg


tells me the glyphosate salts are not the problem.

[oldred]

Then don't ever buy any products any where Piedmont. Don't drink your county or city water either.

You'r right about that for sure, it makes little sense to forgo the relatively benign chemicals available to the home gardener then eat food from a store that has in all likelihood been farmed with far worse stuff than the homeowner can buy. About the only way a person can get by without ANY food contamination is to grow 100% of what they eat and do it as Piedmont says, however there is still all the other junk we are exposed to almost everyday in one way or another.


On a side note about garden chemicals, I was just told of a neat trick this spring to cut back or even eliminate using Carbaryl (Sevin dust/spray), simply use Self-rising flour instead! I thought Huh??? how would that work? Well it seems the bugs eat the Self-rising flour (it MUST be Self-rising!) then the flour contacts the fluids in their bodies and begins to expand causing the little ba,,,,,,,,,err bugs to explode! I have been trying it on cucumber beetle on my cucumbers, pumpkins, etc and so far it seems to work like a charm, it's still way early yet but it sure looks promising.

[rancher1913]

I don't want any poisons anywhere near me or my food. NOTHING gets put on my garden. If the bugs eat some plants that is my tough luck. If there are "weeds" they get pulled, not poisoned.

this works good when you have a 10 square foot garden and I applaud the organic farmers and am glad the market for organics is growing and giving a living wage to some small farmers----but---- try this on the 10 square mile fields that a real farmer has to have to make a living, it cant be done, the weeds would win and the population would starve.

I have never thought roundup was safe and use all the precautions when mixing and spraying, but without it I would need 20 or so laborers just to get by on this place. most of the illness that has occurred could probably be traced back to something other than round up, like paraquat, ddt, and some of the other really mean chemicals. foxtoxin works great to fumigate a bin full of grain but if you get anywhere near the bin for a week after application you will get sick if you dont use proper ppe.

[RED BEAR]

This is a un study for what thats worth. No one will get out of this life alive. Pretty much anything used wrong or in excess will get you. And just because lawyers say its harmful don't mean squat to me. I bought a water filter because the county water tasted like bad. Recommended you check the water before installing so went on county website to check low and behold had to go buy a filter so i could hook up another filter. Got a letter from county saying if you have health problems check with your doctor before drinking. I use ru and will continue to. I remember when i was young parents had a produce business when parked across from life sciences used to get a white powder on everything. Come to find out it was kepone now look that one up and you can read about how it shut down a river and the Chesapeake bay.

[GhostHawk]

I always blamed my Dad's lung cancer on Treflan myself. He would not allow us kids anywhere near it.

I use a little round up here and there around the house. I'm smart enough to stay UP wind of the area I'm spraying, and to wash well after. I don't inhale it, sniff it, drink it.

There are a lot of politics involved in the big chemical company's. Monsanto has the market pretty well cornered on roundup and roundup ready seed.

IMO "good" farmers don't need it. But it does beat the living daylights out of walking 80 acre soybean fields pulling weeds and carrying all wild oats plants to the end where they were collected and burned. Dads farm was excepting some mustard and pigeon grass weed free before Fargo and Roundup came along.

[JimB..]

I always blamed my Dad's lung cancer on Treflan myself. He would not allow us kids anywhere near it.

I use a little round up here and there around the house. I'm smart enough to stay UP wind of the area I'm spraying, and to wash well after. I don't inhale it, sniff it, drink it.

There are a lot of politics involved in the big chemical company's. Monsanto has the market pretty well cornered on roundup and roundup ready seed.

IMO "good" farmers don't need it. But it does beat the living daylights out of walking 80 acre soybean fields pulling weeds and carrying all wild oats plants to the end where they were collected and burned. Dads farm was excepting some mustard and pigeon grass weed free before Fargo and Roundup came along.

Family farms a couple sections in central IL, walked a lot of beans as a teen. It was better than detassling corn!

[Loudenboomer]

I use 500 gallons of straight Roundup per year. Follow label directions. Use common sense. It is a safe product and Much safer than many of the herbicide alternatives we would be forced to use with out it. Conspiracy theory's abound and lawyers will continue to follow their noses to the money trail.

[Elkins45]

Legal scam on Monsanto. Many herbicides in use - all say don't drink or bath with it. The real point is Monsanto has a lock on GMO seed that the UN doesn't like so they want to punish for GMO use. Ads on TV now say No GMO chickens (etc.) like YES, chickens are GMO - they have been breed to be layers or meat. Total ** by Bayer and UN. What do YOU call genetically breed dogs? GMO!!

It’s not the same thing at all. When you breed two dogs they are just mixing different dog genes. That’s selective breeding. Genetic modification is when you artificially insert genes from a different species, or clip out a gene that is normally present. GMOs are things that could not be produced by natural breeding. You couldn’t cross pollinate soybeans to be glyphosate resistant. You have to actually edit their genes.

If Roundup were a problem we would have known it before now. How many millions of gallons of the stuff have been sprayed already?

[Froogal]

Ever since Round Up hit the market it has been stigmatized by the reputation of Agent Orange, whenever people saw any kind of herbicide the spectacle of, and an association with, Agent Orange was there either outright or subconsciously but folks ROUND UP IS NOT AGENT ORANGE! It is a completely different chemical and even if it wasn't Agent Orange itself was not the problem, the problems associated with Agent Orange were due to the contaminate it contained, this of course was the Dioxin which was not even supposed to be in the stuff. That matters little since Dioxin contaminated probably all of the Agent Orange that was manufactured.


I am not saying Round Up is safe or not since like most everyone else I simply don't know but it was tested extensively and has been under more scrutiny than most ag chemicals over the years because of the irrational, and mostly subconscious, fear that it is like Agent Orange. Dangerous? Maybe, maybe not but it's NOT Agent Orange and just because Round Up is a herbicide does not make it similar to Agent Orange in risks.

Also, from what I understand by talking to folks who actually were in Vietnam, Agent Orange was applied straight from the container. It was NOT diluted with water as per the instructions, and nobody bothered to make sure NO soldiers were present in the area before applying it. Just loaded into an airplane and then dumped on the forest. No one received ANY training on proper use and no one bothered to read the instructions.

[popper]

It’s not the same thing at all. Exactly the same, difference is we see the results in animals quickly.
I am a GMO product! From my relative's genetics.
How about corn, a S.A. weed that was GMO'd into a food product? Try looking up Decalb. Modified corn seed. Go to the garden store and get those roses? GMOs.
So your real problem is 'Man' is changing stuff in the lab? Ever read the label on your food to see what 'man' has added? Investigate how many nations have been saved by DDT - Roundup will probably go the same route. Yea, had forgotten about 2-4D that was to cause thin eggs (grain eaters) and fish kill. Because it was used improperly (same as potassium fertilizer and they took organo-Phosphates out of laundry soaps as it got flushed too)
So we'll call it GEO or genetically engineered organisms? That better?
So now we have a problem with some cancer therapy. Genetically engineered medication. What shall we do?
Have a friend with Parkinson's they think was caused by exposure in Nam.

[oldred]

Popper he's right, IT'S NOT THE SAME THING and it's not even close! In nature genetics modifies things through selective breeding but it has to be genes from the SAME KIND of organism, dogs to dogs, cat's to cat's and even people to people, etc but you can't mate a dog to a cat for example, they MUST be of the same species! With human modified GMO organisms it's not like that, genes are taken from totally different species such as fish genes in a mouse or even plant genes in animals in some cases but what is done can NEVER occur in nature! That's what the fuss is all about, these franken creatures are no longer just science fiction topics and are being done in ever increasing numbers. It may sound like a good idea to some folks to (for instance one I read about that was being considered) basically cross a vegetable with a fish (as weird as it sounds) by inserting the DNA from that fish so that the plant would grow a fish enzyme that would be toxic to certain bugs that feed on those plants, no way is that going to happen in nature!

Personally I think it's as crazy as it sounds and scientists are messing with something that should be left to nature!

[Froogal]

First, folks complain about herbicides and insecticides that might cause cancer or make you glow in the dark or something, so scientists develop genetically modified hybrids to reduce the need for the bad guy chemicals, and folks still complain and raise a ruckus.

[oldred]

As the old saying goes you could give some folks a bag full of money and they would complain about the color of the bag.

But you're right and I don't know what the best answer is, however it would seem to me that we would be better off just using chemicals that can be controlled and stopped at any time if found to be dangerous rather than creating new genetically modified species of plants and animals that can reproduce in the environment with possible unforeseen and disastrous consequences that can't be controlled once it escapes.

[40-82 hiker]

One thing I do now, it is a heck of a lot better to use than the old 2-4-D the was used for years.

2-4-D and 2-4-5-T were horrible! But touted as completely safe at the time. It is hard to know what and when to believe something when dealing with chemicals, since the amount of exposure, and the type of exposure, are so variable and individualistic in effect. I AM thankful for having RU as an alternative over the years. I have never used that much of it, as I only used it infrequently around the house for single-point applications, but I certainly felt it was a rather safe alternative as I used it.

JMHO (not aimed at the people involved in this discussion): I find that people tend to react to herbicides, pesticides, and genetic engineering, with common fright out of step with reality. How are we going to feed the billions of people on earth when confronted with plant disease, bug infestations, and food spoilage, unless we have some weapons to fight back with. My mother-in-law used to rail on nearly constantly about herbicides and pesticides, while at the same time complaining about the corn worms, aphid infestations, blights, and canned foods of hers that spoiled before they could be eaten. We used Sevin on tomatoes when I was growing up, but washed the tomatoes very carefully before eating, and harvested when we could after nearly daily rain showers. Knowledge and care do go a long way to mitigating the use of chemicals.

[Froogal]

2,4,5T has been outlawed. It is no longer available anywhere that I know of. 2,4d is still available. Can be found at most farm and ranch type stores. 2,4d is for controlling broad-leaf weeds such as giant ragweed and dandelions. It is safe to use on corn, but do NOT use it on tomatoes, potatoes, peas, or green beans.

[jonp]

No herbicides=no commercial vegetables, cotton, corn for feed, wheat for bread, etc. Hope everyone has a garden and slaughters their own pigs not to mention shear sheep for the wool.

[oldred]

No herbicides=no commercial vegetables, cotton, corn for feed, wheat for bread, etc. Hope everyone has a garden and slaughters their own pigs not to mention shear sheep for the wool.

It really is as simple as that, sure if everyone wanted to do it the old way and get out in the garden for hours on end and manually pull weeds, hoe vegetables, physically pick bugs off certain crops, etc then maybe we could do without chemicals. As the saying goes, "I been there done that and bought the Tee shirt" and I know from experience when I growing up it's a full time job all spring, summer and into the fall with no time left to work another job, I spent many miserable hours when I was a kid hoeing the garden when I wanted to go fishing or some such so I know full well what's involved in trying to make do without pesticides! Not saying that's a bad way to live and I can look back on it without regret but I SERIOUSLY doubt many folks would be willing to do that these days, I know I certainly wouldn't want to! Besides doing it that way is so inefficient compared to modern chemical reliant methods I doubt there's enough farmland currently available to feed everyone even if every person was willing to do it that way.


So if I may add a bit to the "no herbicide" statement you so correctly made it's basically "No chemicals/pesticides=no food in the grocery stores!

[AllanD]

If you know ANYTHING about chemistry You understand that there is not all that much difference between commercial Insecticides & Defoliants and the basic research that also developed all of the deadly "war gasses" & Nerve agents

They are ALL Organo-Phosphates

I've walked away from a good paying job where I found out they were working with similar chemicals...
Plus they were working with Fluorine... (which I will not be anywhere near)

[Elkins45]

It’s not the same thing at all. Exactly the same, difference is we see the results in animals quickly.
I am a GMO product! From my relative's genetics.
How about corn, a S.A. weed that was GMO'd into a food product? Try looking up Decalb. Modified corn seed. Go to the garden store and get those roses? GMOs.
So your real problem is 'Man' is changing stuff in the lab? Ever read the label on your food to see what 'man' has added? Investigate how many nations have been saved by DDT - Roundup will probably go the same route.

It’s not my problem. I don’t have an issue with it.

But you are still wrong because I’ll bet you don’t have any honeybee genes, only human ones. You can’t selectively breed across the vast majority of species through mating. You can’t mate algae with elephants, but you can insert algae genes into any species you want through gene splicing. GMO starts well beyond where selective breeding ends.

[popper]

A little off topic but I feel relevant. Remember the aspirin factory Clinton Tommahawk'd? Supposedly chemical weapon factory (Bayer) and WE don't really know what they were making. Like most chemical processes, doesn't take much to 'change' the process to a different chemical compound.
Just remember, WHO is effectively a political arm of the UN. IMHO, the Ca guy is an idiot, didn't take any precautions and like a good liberal, blames somebody else.

[Land Owner]

I am concerned about GMO's more than RU. I have no chemical engineering background to make the assertion that perhaps some of the honey bee demise is a result of GMO's. I see the relationship in mass food production of making plants resistant to RU, ergo GMO.

But what have we lost in that relationship? GMO corn, soy beans, et al, are still pollenated in the same manner. Do we know ON A CELLULAR LEVEL if the pollen and nectar of GMO flowers are equivalent to the non-modified varieties? Do GMO's have an adverse effect on bees? If we lose bees - we're done.

RU to GMO to bees...the demise of the OP. Oh well...carry on.

[oldred]

I am concerned about GMO's more than RU. I have no chemical engineering background to make the assertion that perhaps some of the honey bee demise is a result of GMO's. I see the relationship in mass food production of making plants resistant to RU, ergo GMO.

But what have we lost in that relationship? GMO corn, soy beans, et al, are still pollenated in the same manner. Do we know ON A CELLULAR LEVEL if the pollen and nectar of GMO flowers are equivalent to the non-modified varieties? Do GMO's have an adverse effect on bees? If we lose bees - we're done.

RU to GMO to bees...the demise of the OP. Oh well...carry on.

Can't add much to that except I 110% agree, especially the part about the bees! We already have a noticeable shortage of honey bees here where I am and it's very difficult to maintain a thriving hive anymore, it's gotten to the point that just having a hive survive at all is a major accomplishment.

[Three44s]

While there is no doubt that honey bees are in peril, there is much less concensous on what is causing it.

I sit on a County Farm bureau board and another of our board members is a retired commercial bee keeper who is very much politically active and a bee advocate.

He and his wife (they are both fire crackers) travel around the world and they are convinced that we need more research and less finger pointing at farm chemicals and genetic engineering. They are very intense in scrutinizing upon the mite (I believe) that attacks bees. The rest of it seems to center on bee cross breeding.

They just returned from a 2 week stint in Turkey and were very impressed with a research station there that is working with bees. The thing that impressed them most was the level of care and professionalism and the control of the queens to not go out and breed with some vagrant male.

Three44s

[oldred]

Triple,4 I was not speculating on what is causing the bee problem although after re-reading my post it does look kind of like I was blaming the chemicals. While I am sure pesticides are part of the problem (very small part) due to bees being killed when visiting sprayed crops the fact is that even more deadly chemicals were in use back when bees were thriving so it's hard to say that pesticides are THE cause, in fact IMHO I think it unlikely. I also agree with the finger pointing at pesticides because used properly they are proven safe but people who know nothing about farming fall for alarmist nonsense, that sort of thing causes all of us problems. As far as GMO it's not just alarmists but prominent scientists warning that GMO is getting into the environment with unknown potential consequences before enough study has been done, the fact is the HUGE profit potential is rushing the development before science knows enough about it! Take corn for instance, GMO corn was supposed to be restricted to experimental plots at first and we were told it would not escape into the environment but nature being what it is it got into the environment almost immediately! Today there are restrictions in place on growing GMO corn but it's a joke and the genes from GMO corn has contaminated a big percentage of the corn crop and likely will get the rest of it in a few years, in this case it "seems" to be OK, at least so far and quite likely will remain so, but if it had of produced a dangerous crop it would still be out there and the consequences could have been a major disaster we could have done little about! GMO is likely to be the way of the future and probably be a major scientific achievement that will benefit everyone but rushing into it with inadequate caution, as IS being done, could be he worst disaster mankind has ever seen, even some top researchers are saying it's not yet ready for prime time but profits are outweighing reason.

[Froogal]

It really is as simple as that, sure if everyone wanted to do it the old way and get out in the garden for hours on end and manually pull weeds, hoe vegetables, physically pick bugs off certain crops, etc then maybe we could do without chemicals. As the saying goes, "I been there done that and bought the Tee shirt" and I know from experience when I growing up it's a full time job all spring, summer and into the fall with no time left to work another job, I spent many miserable hours when I was a kid hoeing the garden when I wanted to go fishing or some such so I know full well what's involved in trying to make do without pesticides! Not saying that's a bad way to live and I can look back on it without regret but I SERIOUSLY doubt many folks would be willing to do that these days, I know I certainly wouldn't want to! Besides doing it that way is so inefficient compared to modern chemical reliant methods I doubt there's enough farmland currently available to feed everyone even if every person was willing to do it that way.


So if I may add a bit to the "no herbicide" statement you so correctly made it's basically "No chemicals/pesticides=no food in the grocery stores!

And there it is in a nutshell. There is not enough farmland left to produce the food that the world needs unless we use the chemicals made available to us.

[john.k]

I gots lots of skin cancers ,etc on my arms,and had removed ....I know what caused em...the sun.......driving dozers ,trucks with my arm out the window,and motorbikes didnt help none either.......but if some smarty lawyer says I can get you $400M from Monsanto ,for that,then I aint gonna refuse.......after all ,it aint me telling lies,its some smartie experts.......Funny thing is ,about half the greens and cryin chillren think RoundUp is a insecticide,and is killin all the bugs.,,,but idiots live in apartments like to believe something,pity is they aint gunna die of AIDs any more.

[popper]

If you read a little it is evident that GMO corn and soybeans are basically immune to ROUNDUP - the purpose of the mutation. And most of the profit goes to seed companies (Monsanto). There are mutations effecting plant characteristics, yield and such. EU doesn't like GMOs but except for a strain of individuals in a northern state, I see no evidence that feeding STAR corn to cattle (or people) has anyone turned into an ear/kernel. GEO or field genetic modification (the OLD hybred method) are the same. I will repeat - follow the money.

[john.k]

Anyone ever sprayed acres of weeds knows just about all beans are immune to roundup.......I got these climbing beans ,pods 3 foot long,sticky seeds(beans?) spread by birds........climb anything,trees,poles ,cars ,trucks,and they stick.....anyhoo ,immune to roundup,near immune to tebuthiuron,have to use costly picloram to kill them.....So monsanto would know this very well , having invented roundup,and hype the effect for gain.

[dbarry1]

I know a couple farmers that have NHL (one recently passed away). Don't know which farm chemical it is from, but pretty sure it's probably from one of them. Both lived very hard working, clean lives. It's a shame.

[nueces5]

Yes, it is clearly a carcinogenic. Unfortunately there is a lot of money at stake, but in these things, eventually it happily ends up being fair. Recently, in some provinces of Argentina, its use has been prohibited.

[xs11jack]

I have read where the surveys taken before and and after to detect a change in the rate of NHL in the various populations. There were no difference before and after.
Do any of you remember the asphalt company that was run out of business many years ago by the lawyers? Remember the Billions of dollars the lawyers got from the cigarette companies. And the asbestos companies that were looted by the lawyers? Yes there have been harm from these and more chemical companies but the lawyers have virtually raped the companies to death. By the time the government got their back sides in gear and tried to inject some common sense in the regulation of the harmful chemicals, the lawyers had looted the companies and burned them to the ground.
Ole Jack

[john.k]

We got our first Roundup case going here......but they wont have an easy ride like in the US....the plaintiff will have to demonstrate a causal link,not supposition and crying widders ,like in a US court...and any payout will be quite modest too.I think they are hoping for a worldwide settlement from Monsanto s underwriters......Bear in mind ,all glyphosate is not M/s,the stuff has been made in China for years.

[Shingle]

I have said that it does cause cause cancer for decades, I live in a very rural area and no one dies of old age here ALL die of cancer of some type. We even have baby''s born with cancer, there is next to nothing here for you to be exposed to except farm chemicals. It is pumped into drinking water systems by accident once and a while because the farmers have water stations hooked direct to the water main, the pump on the chemical tank is in reverse and 500 GALLONS OF ROUND UP GOES IN WATER SYSTEM. Wonder how often it does not get reported?

[Froogal]

If you are worried about glyphosate causing cancer, maybe you should stop using sun screen also.

[Elkins45]

I think some people need to read this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

[1911sw45]

Shingle, water fill and even home lines has back flow valves installed here.

[MT Gianni]

I believe glyphospate is one of the few things keeping us from all out world war due to hunger.

[Shawlerbrook]

I spent 32 years as a NYS Pesticide regulator. First of all, everything in life has risks. RU is probably as safe as many chemicals we use as pesticides, solvents, automotive fluids, paints, stains, etc. Chemical exposures in general probably do increase health risks, but to put a numerical label or to access that risk for each individual is impossible. Like medicines, machines and most scientific discoveries, pesticides have saved more lives by preventing starvation and pest carried diseases, than they have harmed. Read and follow the label, use appropriate safety equipment, avoid skin and inhalation contact as much as possible and use only where needed and don’t worry( as worrying is probably worse for your health).

[jonp]

Yes, it is clearly a carcinogenic. Unfortunately there is a lot of money at stake, but in these things, eventually it happily ends up being fair. Recently, in some provinces of Argentina, its use has been prohibited.

So isn't sugar and a ton of other things. In fact, just about everything is a carcinogen if the dose is large enough. People in the US have about a 2% or less chance of getting non-Hodgkin lymphoma the majority of which are over 65. It seems to me that the "risk" of about every type of cancer non behavioral based closely corresponds to the increased longevity of the population. In other words, if you live long enough you get something.

If The Mayo Clinic is not sure of the link then I'm not not too worried.

Instead of hysterical jumps to conclusions based on media hype and huge jury verdicts how about taking a look at the actual laboratory testing of glyphosates?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819582/

I'll jump to the chase in case people don't want to wade through the multiple studies and findings as the math gets tough plus reading scientific findings can be difficult.

An extraordinarily large volume of animal data has been compiled to evaluate the carcinogenic potential of glyphosate. The expected normal biological variability for spontaneous tumor formation is reflected across this extensive data set (Tables 20–23). However, no specific neoplasm stands out as a consequence of glyphosate exposures. While some individual studies may note an increase in a specific neoplasm at the high dose, the pooled data fail to identify any consistent pattern of neoplasm formation, demonstrating that the effect is not reproducible and not treatment-related. The lack of a dose-response across the several orders of magnitude suggests that no individual tumor of single etiology is attributable to glyphosate administration.

Furthermore: Glyphosate has undergone repeated and extensive review by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA 1993), the European Union (EC 2002, Germany Rapporteur Member State 2015b) and the World Health Organization/Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (WHO/FAO 2004b, WHO/FAO 2004a). With regard to potential carcinogenic effects of glyphosate, the unanimous outcome of these reviews has been that the data provide sufficient evidence to conclude that glyphosate should not be considered a carcinogen.

Mink et al. published a review of the available epidemiological studies that investigated possible associations between glyphosate and cancer diagnosed in humans (Mink et al. 2012). No evidence was found for a statistically significant positive association between cancer and exposure to glyphosate.

"... a later summary of AHS results note that there were no associations between glyphosate use and a number of cancers, including lymphohematopoietic cancers, leukemia, NHL, and multiple myeloma (Weichenthal et al. 2010)."

I USED ROUND-UP + I GOT CANCER = ROUND-UP CAUSES CANCER Doesn't work like that, guys and gals.

Remember the huge BREAST IMPLANTS CAUSE CANCER scare and the huge jury verdicts? Mayo Clinic: The FDA believes that women with breast implants that have textured surfaces have a very low but increased risk of developing BIA-ALCL. However, that doesn't mean that these implants cause BIA-ALCL.

How about the hysteria over Saccharin (side note: When in College I had the pleasure of attending a lecture given by the individual that did the study)? The press took a small piece of the study out of context and hyped it into a national emergency. You would have to eat something on the order of 10lbs a day for 20yrs to have any effect on you and later it was found that the specific type of cancer, bladder, studied was not transferable to humans. That is, bladder cancer development in lab mice had no tie to humans.

Aspartame Scare? Yeah, the study was so flawed that The FDA discounted it after review. I still don't like it's taste

Sucralose? umm...same thing. FDA review found a flawed study that could not be repeated.

How about the latest boogyman, Talcum Powder causes Ovarian Cancer and the billion dollar jury verdicts? " However, research from 2016 found that using talc on the genitals could increase the risk of ovarian cancer by 33 percent in participants. However, the study relied on personal interviews based on participants' memories, which may not be accurate. In other words, huge settlements based of emotions and faulty memories. Kinda sounds like the breast implant scare a little? Johnson and Johnson is a giant corporation. Faced with a crying female on the stand that evil company can afford a few bucks. Jackpot justice much like the false rape allegations. Hysterical females = instant guilt.

How about focusing on things that will keep you healthy like exercise, moderate alcohol intake, no tobacco use, good diet, lots of sleep etc???

[kenyerian]

I've used RU for years and the generic that is sold in Farm supply stores. Follow instructions. don't use on a windy day. and wear protective clothing. I have worried about for years and am very cautious with it. Back around 2000 I had a litter of Beagle puppies. I kept one and rehomed the other six. They all developed cancer and died before they were 4. I've always wondered what caused it. Had litters before and after and it never happened again. I did stop spraying around the kennels. Beagle puppies get into everything and they ran loose a lot so it could have been anything.

[jonp]

Who makes Round-Up? Monsanto...oh, you mean the target of the progressive left and global warming, anti-business fanatics for GMO foods? Sound kinda fishy?

[Shingle]

The honey bees have to be in danger if you spray a field with insecticide where honey bees are located they cant help but get killed IMHO. For years I have seen corn fields with dead birds laying all over the ground due to eating corn seed which had been coated with some type of chemical. Our local bird population is close to nil compared to the 80's. We are going to suffer from this one way or another.

[roysha]

Bacon is too, I am attempting suicide by bacon, tried again this morning.

AHA!! So you are the reason bacon is $3.50=$4.00 a pound. STOP it! At those prices I can't attempt to even make myself mildly ill much less terminal.

[Land Owner]

[Thread Hack=ON]

I've used RU for years and the generic that is sold in Farm supply stores. Follow instructions. don't use on a windy day. and wear protective clothing. I have worried about for years and am very cautious with it. Back around 2000 I had a litter of Beagle puppies. I kept one and rehomed the other six. They all developed cancer and died before they were 4. I've always wondered what caused it. Had litters before and after and it never happened again. I did stop spraying around the kennels. Beagle puppies get into everything and they ran loose a lot so it could have been anything.
Did you feed them Blue Buffalo dog food? That killed my Treeing Tennessee Brindle, Lucy, and our Russian Blue / Maine Coon mixed cat, Shadow. )@^# Chinese pollution in dog and cat food sold in these United States.
[Thread Hack = OFF]