trials and tribulations of my Destroyer caebine

[abunaitoo]

Not much info out there about these rifles.
Thought maybe it might be interesting.
All started many, many years ago when I saw a friends rifle.
Once I saw the engraving of the Destroyer on the reciver, I just had to have one.
I found one on an auction, and won.
When I got it, I found out it was chambered for 9mm Largo.
No ammo to be found.
After a while Star line came out with cases.
Ordered 100 and looked up load data.
There used to be a good site with much information on these rifles and ammo.
Sadly, it's gone.
Found some load date, and loaded up some rounds.
Condom bullets.
Accuracy was terrible.
Went back in the safe until recently.
Member here, Rapidrob, posted about his experiment with 190gr boolets.
Asked if it would be possible to get some to try.
He sent me a few, so "the game is a foot"
Didn't want to use the heavy boolets right off, so started with what I had in 9mm/38 molds.
A lee 124gr round nose, and a 147gr Lyman semi wad cutter.
Sized them to 355di and tried them.
Much better than condoms, but not up to my standards.
Thought boolet was to small, so up next was 357d.
A little better, but still not what I expected.
At this point I thought I should slugg the bore.
I know I should have done this first.
Bore turns out to be 357di.
So now I tried some 358 and unsized boolets.
Unsized ran around 359di to 360di.
Much better, but I noticed the second string of five shots, grouped way better than the first.
Checked the action screws, and they are tight.
Will have to take the action out and see where it's touching.
Also, in order to hit the bull, the front sight had to be drifted way to the left.
Need to fix that to.
And, something is wrong with the ejector.
Shells don't pop out and eject.
Extraction is fine.
Work in progress.

[Abert Rim]

Sounds like you are on the right track. The one I had apparently had seen a lot of corrosive ammo and the bore was less than pristine. It never shot well enough to hold my interest, but maybe with some lapping and cast boolits it might have come round.

[abunaitoo]

I didn't slugg it at first, because the bore is so nice.
Just "assumed" bore was good.
Assumed bites me in the back side again.
Going to try some .361di 150gr boolets.
Lapped out a mold for the 38 S&W I have.

[abunaitoo]

Cat wanted to go outside tonight, so I thought it would be a good chance to check the stock fit.
It was not to good.
Left side was pushing the barrel to the right in three places.
One spot, where the front sling goes, was pushing up on the barrel.
Worked on it, and made it free floating.
Hope it helps.
Also checked the ejector. It looked fine.
With the action out of the stock, I tried to eject an empty shell.
The extractor wouldn't grab the rim.
I think I have a head space problem. Shells to short. Starline brass.
Didn't have a problem with a boolet in the case, so I think the seating depth might be taking up the space.
Now I might have to look for longer shells.
Checked and this is what I found........
9mm Largo...................23.11......0.910
38 Super......................22.86......0.900
9x23............................22.86.......0.900
Any idea what else might work?????
I've read that cut down .223 shells might work.
But the base diameter seems to small.
I should mention that I am using 9mm Lugar dies to resize the case.

[LAGS]

Do a Chamber cast and see that the inside of the chamber measures out too.
Then you can decide what casings you would want to use.

[Larry Gibson]

I never found a correct cartridge case but didn't have any 9mm Bergman 25+ years ago when I got my Destroyer. It was just a shooter so I just set the barrel back 1/2 thread so it would headspace on 38 Super cases. Had to file a new extractor groove. Made a small block to fit where the old extractor groove was because it was now where the feed ramp is. Not hard to do either.

The barrel on mine is a 1 - 18"+ twist. Groove diameter is .356 - .357 (not consistent for length of the barrel). Surprisingly it shoots quite well for what it is. I've shot numerous 88 - 125 gr jacketed bullets of .355, .356 and .357 diameters and it handles them all very well. I had a bunch of bulk 125 gr .357 Winchester HPs that I pushed at 1700 fps ....safely. I can say that because I don't have a 38 Super handgun. Also the chamber is a bit large in diameter I us a 9mm sizer to partial/neck size and the reloaded cartridge won't chamber in a 38 super anyway. Before the pundits start yelling about that I don't load those anymore. I load a 356-120-TC sized .357, lubed with BAC or NRA 50/50 over 3 gr of either Bullseye or WST powder. That runs 960+ fps with excellent accuracy. Shot a lot of 150 gr 358477s over 4 gr Unique and they did okay at 1110 fps. Any faster and accuracy went south.

242363

[Battis]

I loaded up a handful of 9mm Largo rounds for testing last week, using Starline brass and the jacketed HB bullets (.354" diameter, 125 grs) from pulled "vintage" rounds (250 rounds that came with my Astra 400, mostly duds). I use 3.2 to 3.5 grs of Bullseye. I size the brass with 38 acp dies, then resize with 9mm dies for neck tension, then a 9mm crimp. The rifle was very accurate (it had a rear peep sight) and kicked like an angry .22. One round of the vintage ammo fired (from a box of 25) and it was a lot hotter than my reloads. I removed the peep sight and bought an original sight on ebay that's on its way ($42 plus shipping for the sight leaf alone - no base, no screw, no spring).
These rifles are getting popular, and the parts are scarce (and pricey). If someone could start making extractors, they'd make some moola. Great carbines.

Nice looking carbine, Larry. I like that scope.

[Larry Gibson]

Might add the Spanish 9mm Largo (Bergman-Bayard) was loaded with a 125 gr bullet with a velocity of about 1130 +/- fps out of the Astra handguns.

[abunaitoo]

One step forward, two steps back.
Last weekend.
I thought I had a good load.
First five shots 2" to 3" to the left.
Second five 1" to 2" center.
Got home and checked stock to barrel clearance.
Hard on the left side. Good on the right.
Took off wood to free up the barrel.
This weekend.
Same load. All over the place.
I noticed the barrel band was touching.
Took the bands off and no change.
Going to try to put some upward pressure at the front of the barrel.
Haven't done a chamber cast. Don't really see the point.
I already know the cases are to short.
Places I've checked are out of 9mm Win Mag shells.
Also seems to be out of 9mm Largo shells.
Seating the boolet out farther seems to help with head space.

[yeahbub]

Not sure of the dimensions, but s it possible that the new .350 Legend might be a source of brass for the generous chambers? Just a thought.

Somewhere I read the account of someone who worked on Destroyers and found that it was not uncommon that the barrels were not much more than hand tight in the receivers and this can play hob with accuracy. Have any of you found this to be the case? I really wanted one of those to rebarrel to 7.62x25mm and/or .22 TCM. That would be just the thing for a walking-around carbine on the farm.

[abunaitoo]

Worked on the stack some more.
For reloading, I didn't resize the cases.
Just deprime and reload.
Went with .358 diameter.
Wish I had a .359 sizer.
Match today, but most of the time, have extra time to shoot after.
I have a feeling I'm getting closer.

[abunaitoo]

Had some time yesterday to shoot this thing.
Seems I got the stock problem solved.
With the load I had, it grouped 3" to 4" at 50yds.
All in the center of the target.
I know it can do better.
Now I probably have to start over on load testing.

[abunaitoo]

Had some time to reload and try some yesterday.
About the same as the week before.
I'm beginning to think 3" to 4" at 50 might be the best it can do with the 145gr boolet I'm using.
Time to try something else.

[2wheelDuke]

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/223-Basic/

These un-formed .223's might have some potential for you to trim and size as necessary for your project.

[tomme boy]

Did you ever find any 9mm Win Mag brass?

[abunaitoo]

I've looked into forming .223. The base is just to small.
I did find some.
Another member here has some.
Waiting for them now.
Good people here. Always willing to help.

[abunaitoo]

So..............
I got the 9mm Mag brass.
I trimmed 10 of them to fit my Destroyer chamber.
Came out to 23.59mm/9029in.
Used the same load of 358-145 SWC. 4.0 of Unique.
At 50yds, 1" to 2".
I didn't think the head space would make that much of a difference.
Even the ejection was better.
Need to change to a round nose boolet.
It sometimes would hang up on the ridge.
Next reload, I will not size the case, only deprime.
Hoping the case will not have the bulge.
This is showing some promise after all.

[tomme boy]

That awesome! keep us updated

[Multigunner]

So..............
I got the 9mm Mag brass.
I trimmed 10 of them to fit my Destroyer chamber.
Came out to 23.59mm/9029in.
Used the same load of 358-145 SWC. 4.0 of Unique.
At 50yds, 1" to 2".
I didn't think the head space would make that much of a difference.
Even the ejection was better.
Need to change to a round nose boolet.
It sometimes would hang up on the ridge.
Next reload, I will not size the case, only deprime.
Hoping the case will not have the bulge.
This is showing some promise after all.

I neck size only when reloading the .303 which is known for bulging cases.
To make sure cases last as long as possible I mark the rims and after firing and reloading I make sure to turn the case 180 degrees before the second firing. That way the cases are evenly expanded all around , reducing canting of the boolit at origin of rifling and primers are well centered to the firing pin.

[abunaitoo]

More testing on Sunday.
Only 10 cases were fire formed, so the rest had a slight bulge in the case.
It caused a problem on extraction a loaded round.
The extractor pulled out of the spring holder, and the bolt got stuck.
Happened a few times before.
Will work on it later this week.

Also the LEE TC boolet didn't feed, from the mag, as smoothly as I had hoped.
The tiny case lip would still get hung up feeding into the chamber.
I was working the bolt slowly, so maybe I need to go faster.
The load shot well.
LEE 356-120TC, PC to .358di
Unique
3.6...1 1/2 to 2
3.8......1/2 to 1
4.0......1/2 to 1
4.2...1 1/2 to 2
All at 50yds, 5 shot string
As normal, Unique is very dirty burning.
I'm going to try different powders, to try and find one that is cleaner burning.

[abunaitoo]

Got the bolt fixed, again, tonight.
Will size the rest of the rounds, and take it out on Sunday.
Should stop raining by then.

[Larry Gibson]

In a couple weeks I can show you how I fixed the extractor pulling forward problem?

[abunaitoo]

Coming ti hawaii????

[Larry Gibson]

No, just don't have access to mine to take a picture for you. Been to Hawaii several times though.......

[Buckshot]

...............I had a couple of the Spanish 'Destroyer' carbines. Mainly used 38 Super cases/loads. Sold the first and turned the other one into a 45 ACP shooter :-). http://www.fototime.com/4FFDE36264BD077/standard.jpg

GPC had some steel "Lyman Made" right hand apurture rear sights available for $15 each. These were made for a Mossburg (?) left handed target rifle.

http://www.fototime.com/CFF89A3A068D404/standard.jpg....... http://www.fototime.com/EFE3FFB26179CF8/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/9A75475EFE7F865/standard.jpg

They worked very well on the Destroyer.

I was doing some rather intrepid load development and had a Lee 405gr slug (sized to .451") going a tad over 1000 fps, from a 45 ACP case. This was when foreign importation was rampant, and I dis-recall where the ammo came from. The cases were brass and headstamped CCC. Upon inspection after firing, internally the casewall had a faint crack around the base (EGADS!). I had a bunch of EC43 (Evensville Chrysler) steel boxer primed cases, so no more cracking :-) However I figured that was pushing things a tad and quit experimenting in that direction.

http://www.fototime.com/62EED1AEE2CEF6C/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/F06285EBCF53BF7/standard.jpg

The 45 cal barrel came from GPC also. The issue bottom metal handled the 45 ACP magazine just fine. Had to make a new latch hole on the 45 Auto magazine. The problem was in feeding. It would feed the first round just fine. But upon extraction the next round in the mag would push the empty up, and out from under the extractor's claw, to drop it right there in the action. I thought about an interuptor like the M91 M-N has or similar but never could work up the enthusiasm to do anything with it. Just stands there gathering dust!

...............Buckshot

[abunaitoo]

No, just don't have access to mine to take a picture for you. Been to Hawaii several times though.......

Pictures would be nice.
I think I'm the problem.
A shell get's stuck, so I hold the extractor down, and try again.
It pulls off everytime.

Shells stick because the chamber is to long.
Had to get some 9mm mag shells and trim them down to fit.
Works much better with the longer shells.
Some were just a little to long.
Trimmed the long on, so problem should be solved.
Fun little rifle.

[abunaitoo]

Last Sunday, I tried some Win 231 powder.
Same boolet, primer, case.
3.0, 3.2, 3.4.
3.4 was the best load. 1" to 2".
Didn't do as well was the Unique powder.
Since W 231 is faster than Unique, I'm trying HS-6 this Sunday.

[Larry Gibson]

To keep the extractor from being pulled forward and off the bolt as the bolt is withdrawn when extracting a fired case I made a small pin to block the cutout in the extractor.

244830

The pin was mad out of small diameter piece of rod (doesn't have to be hardened, a piece of coat hanger might work) cut to fit in the length of the slot. A shim (I used a slice of soda or beer can) is made to form a horse shoe shape around the pin with feet bent out under the extractor to hold it in place. I started with the shim the correct width but longer than needed. A 90 degree bend (foot) was made in one end. That was put into the slot and the foot slipped under the extractor edge. The pin was then placed into the slot and the shim wrapped around and put down into the slot between the pin and the extractor. The edge was slipped under the xtractor and then cut off even with the extractor edge.

244831244832

Easier to do than to explain. The simple modification holds the extractor in place.

My favorite load is the Lee 356-120-TC sized .357 and lubed with BAC over 3 gr WST or 3 gr Bullseye in 38 Super cases with CCI 500 primers. Velocity runs 970 fps.

244833

Accuracy is very good given the quality of my Destroyer make. Here is 15 shots at 50 yards with the aperture rear sight.

244834

[Texas by God]

I remember a man from several gun shows over a period of time that had a couple of them. His price was too high for me but he had a sign that said” These Spanish Destroyers will shoot 9mm Largo, 9mm Steyr, .38 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm Bergman Bayard, and 9mm Bayard Bergman......

[abunaitoo]

Thanks Larry
I was thinking almost the same thing.
Pin to keep the extractor from moving forward.
Just didn't figure out how to keep it in there.
Do you have problems with the rounds not wanting to go into the chamber????
I'm using the same boolet at .358. Barrel sluggs at .357.
On mines, the shell ridge gets hung up on the top of the chamber.
I'm hoping a round nose would solve the problem.
Also I have weak ejection.
It looks like the shell is coming out of the bolt, before it reaches the ejector.
I'm working the bolt slow, so as not to have the shells fly all over the place.
Any ideas???

Shot it today with the HS-6 powder.
5.8gr to 6.6gr
All shot about the same, 1" to 2" at 50yds.
But all shot low, 3" to 4".
Had a few three shot touching, then fliers opening up the groups.
For me, the slower powder is working better.

[Larry Gibson]

Do you have problems with the rounds not wanting to go into the chamber????
On mines, the shell ridge gets hung up on the top of the chamber.

I did originally, before setting the barrel back, with one magazine and noticed the lips were farther apart than the other two (I have 3 magazines). A little tweaking with pliers and it seemed to feed after that. Have not had any feed problems since setting barrel the barrel back 1/2 thread/turn which headspaced it for 38 Super cases and making/installing a feed ramp to fill in the old extractor notch (not hard).

244926

I'm hoping a round nose would solve the problem.
Also I have weak ejection.
It looks like the shell is coming out of the bolt, before it reaches the ejector.
I'm working the bolt slow, so as not to have the shells fly all over the place.
Any ideas???

Yes, The Destroyer was advertised to shoot almost all the 9mm cartridges including 38 Super.....that was "fake news"........
Mine has 9mm Berman/Bayard stamped on the receiver. I never found any of that ammo at the time but the few 9mm Largo I had did not headspace correctly either. As to the cartridge case coming out of the bolt the large variation in rim thickness and diameter is probably the problem. I had the same problem with 38 Super cases as the rim was slightly too large for the case head recess in the bolt face. Once I opened the bolt face recess to fit the rim the problem went away. Putting the pin in the extractor to stop the extractor from pulling forward may also have helped solve the problem.

[abunaitoo]

I noticed, from your picture, that you seat the boolet out a little farther than I do.
Is that on purpose????
I found a mold that I think might work.
It has some bad screw holes I need to fix before using.
No markings on it.
3 cav, metal, Saeco spruse,
Numbers have been stamped over.
I'll post it in the mold forum.

[abunaitoo]

Cast some of the round nose boolets and tried them today.
Solved the feeding problem.
I think I may have seated them deeper than with the other boolets.
More pressure.
They shot OK, but not as good.

[Larry Gibson]

I seated those so they just kiss the leader when the bolt is closed and that they fit the magazine.

[abunaitoo]

I'm waiting for a Lee round nose mold.
I decided to load some condom bullets.
I think these are Berry plated.
I've never had much luck with Berry bullets.
Don't expect much from these.
Also loaded more of the Lee TC that shot well.
I'll try to work on the bolt tomorrow.
Also want to check the stock again.
Might be pushing on the barrel when it warms up.

[abunaitoo]

Put the pin in today.
I really wasn't having it pop out, unless I do something wrong.
But at least now it won't pop out.
Didn't have time to check the stock. Will try next week.
It's a fun little rifle.
So far only shooting at 50yds.
Once I find a top load, I'll go to 100yds.

[abunaitoo]

I guess the pin made a difference.
Extraction and ejection was much better.
If I don't have my hand over it, the shells would fly up and out.
Those Berry bullets worked like I thought.
Not all that great.
Lee round nose should be here tomorrow, according to the USPS web site.
Will cast some up, and try them next week.

[abunaitoo]

So I cast up some of the Lee 356-125-2R.
Came out 356-357. I did PC them.
Loaded with......
6.0..HS6
6.2..HS6
6.2..HS7
6.4 HS7
All shot about the same 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 at 50yds.
Powder is really dirty.
After a few rounds, I had to brush out the chamber.
Shells were sticking.
I want to try and make the boolets bigger.
Probably try beagling.

[tomme boy]

HS6 runs clean at near max loads. But recoil and muzzle flash come with it. At least in pistols

[abunaitoo]

Suggestions on a clean burning powder????

[Larry Gibson]

Bullseye, Red Dot, WST, Green Dot and Unique are what I found best with cast bullets........I've settled on Bullseye for mine but am using up the last of a couple pounds of WST I've got in it under the Lee 356-120-TC bullet. With Jacketed bullets I use Herco, Blue Dot and Unique.

[abunaitoo]

Didn't have time to try t this weekend.
Next Sunday we have a .22 match.
So many projects, so little time.

[abunaitoo]

Having problems with the bolt sticking, and chambering.
The chambering, I think. is from all the unburnt powder.
Need to find a cleaner burning powder.
The bolt, I'm not sure.
I think maybe the ejector.
I'll remove it and see.

[salpal48]

Just recently Purchased some 9mm Largo Brass from Starline. Mine feeds and works well with 9mm Parabellum. I have used surplus with both calibers

[abunaitoo]

Took the rifle apart.
Removed the ejector and trigger.
Still sticking.
Cleaned it really well.
Found some burrs inside of the receiver.
Filed ans sanded it down.
Problem solver, for now.
No idea how the burrs got there.
Tried some different powder.again.
700X
It did as good as the HS6, and burned way cleaner.
I didn't PC the boolets this time.
Bore slugged at .357, so boolets were sized to .357.
Still having problems with it shooting to the left.
I did turn the rear sight to the right and it got much better, but the front blade still has to be drifted to the left a tad.
Things getting better.............Slowly

[abunaitoo]

For this load testing, I used pulled primers.
i an tell, sometimes, it is lighter.
Bot for load testing, it's good enough.
So far 700x seems to be the winner.
At 50yds anyway.
3.6 to 4.0 seems to shoot the same.
I'd really like to try some 115gr boolets..
They seem to be the most accurate in my other 9mm firearms.
Gunshow coming up, so maybe I'll get luck and find one there.
Still having problems with the bolt.
Not sure what's going on.
After around 20 rounds, it gets sticky.
Cleaning it off doesn't help.
Last time there was a burr near the lugs.
Will have to check it to see if it came back.
Bore slugged at .357.
I using boolets sized to .357.
With .358 it was sometimes hard to close the bolt.
Even with the .357 it sometimes hard to close the bolt.
I may just try some .356 to see how it goes.

[abunaitoo]

I picked up a Lee 356-102-1R to try.
I'm thinking it will cast around 100gr.
Just hope it larger than .356di.
Haven't done much the last few weeks.
Busy getting ready for the gunshow next weekend.
Hope to find some goodies.
Good deals.

[abunaitoo]

So the .356 is to small.
I thought it would be.
I will make it bigger and try again.

I am still having a problem with the bolt sticking.
It's the last 1/4" or less.
Last time it was sticking, I took the ejector, extractor, firing pin and trigger off.
Bare bolt.
Magic marker the bolt surface.
Filed down where it was scraping.
Worked well.
As I started shooting again, the bolt started to stick again.
I'll take it apart again and see whats going on.

[abunaitoo]

Gunshow is done, so back to this project.
I opened up the Lee 356-102 mold to .359/.361.
I resize, so out of round doesn't bother me.
Sized to .357 and .358. Same load of 3.4/700x.
Will see how they do today.
Haven't had time to play with the bolt.
I'll try to get to it next week.

[abunaitoo]

Getting close.
.357 didn't do all the great.
.358 was a big improvement.
I've been using pulled primers a friend gave me.
Now that I have something close, I'll try known primers.
I may try the Lee 356-120TC.
I'll have to size them to .358 first.
May have to add some tin or pewter to lighted it up.
Mines weighs 127 right now.
I just got a .358-115 SWC mold
I'll cast some up and see what they come out to.
First thing I have to do is work on the bolt sticking.

[Texas by God]

FYI- Sarco sent an email stating they have Destroyer magazines 10 for $20!? I know no details other than that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[abunaitoo]

I saw that.
Might just order some.

[abunaitoo]

Bought 10 mags from Sarco.
Not sure why, but for the price, couldn't pass it by.

Trying something different with the boolets.
Got some plain base gas checks.
I have found gas checked boolets shoot much better than plain base.
Hope to reload some with...........
127gr gas check....4.4, 4.6, 4.8 of W231.
.

[abunaitoo]

Gas checks seemed to have helped.
Little more consistent.
My bore slugged at .357. I'm using .358 boolets.
I will reslug the bore and see if I can make some larger boolets in .359.
I've read that some are getting 3" to 4" at 100yds.
That's what I'm getting at 50yds.
More work needed.

[abunaitoo]

Got the mags today.
Look unused.
Good deal.
Now if I can just find the right load for it.
250704

[Texas by God]

Got the mags today.
Look unused.
Good deal.
Now if I can just find the right load for it.
250704 Those look great. Sarco has gone crazy.
Now sell one magazine for $20 to recoup your investment. Those are appreciating already.....

[abunaitoo]

So I tried the same load and boolet.
This time with known primers.
Was more consistent, but still getting 3to 4 at 50yds.
I just know it can do better.

[Wayne Smith]

OK, question. "I just know it can do better." or I just know I can do better.?

[abunaitoo]

I know it can do better.
I don't know if I can do better.
But I'm trying.

[abunaitoo]

So I seemed to be getting nowhere.
Decided to start from the start.
I re-slugged the bore. .357
I then loaded the same powder, W231-5.5gr, and primer, CCI SP.
The boolets were Lee 127gr sized to...........355, .356, .357, .358.
I Beaggled the mold to .361 before.
Alu flat base gas check.
I did not weigh each boolet.
All shot at 50yds
10 rounds each.
.355......4 to 5
.356......2 to 3
.357......2 to 3
.358......4 to 5
Overall the .356 was the most consistent.
Both the .356 and .357 showed fliers, opening up the groups.
Next I'll try weighing the boolets to be sure their close.

[Texas by God]

I’m thinking that maybe, like the 400 Astra 9mm Largo, it will shoot .357” Jacketed Bullets best. Have you tried it?

[abunaitoo]

Don't have any jacket .357.
This thing is giving me a work out.

[abunaitoo]

Getting close..........I hope.
Lee 356-123gr, plain base gas check, carnuba red lube, sized to .357.
Load tried this time............
All 10 rounds at 50yds
Blue Dot
5.7gr..........1-1 1/2.......2 fliers..........POA
5.9gr..........1-1 1/2.......4 fliers..........POA
6.1gr..........2-3............no fliers.........POA
700x
3.3.............1-1 1/2......no fliers.........POA
SR7625
3.5gr...........2-3...........4 fliers..........6" high
The Blue Dot was very dirty, 700X very clean, and SR7625 inbetween.
Will try different loads of the 700x next weekend.

[abunaitoo]

This is the test from Sunday.
Not to bad.
Lee 356-123gr 700x
All with alu flat base check.
All at 50yds. Off the bench. 5 shot groups
3.1.........2-3.............2-3
3.3.........1-2.............1-2
3.5.........1 1/2-2.......1-2
3.7.........2-3.............1 1/2-2
Tried a RCBS TC 356-127
3.1..........1-2............1-2
Seems like the 700x is more consistent, uses less powder. Cleaner burn.
But it does seem to shoot 2" to the left and 1" low.
Picture of the 3.5 second group.
253213
Will load more and move to 100yds.

[abunaitoo]

Shot some of the Lee 356-123, round nose.
But this time no gas check, powder coated.
Shot about the same as last week.
Also tried some Lee 357-124 TC TL boolets.
Powder coated. No gas check.
Same 700x powder. 3.1 and 3.3.
Not as good as the round nose.
I also noticed the step on the lube band, would sometimes hang up and make it hard to feed.
They didn't shoot that great, so just won't use them.
Seems like 3.3 of 700x, with the Lee 357-123 RN is the load.
At least in my rifle.

[richhodg66]

I've always thought those were neat rifles. Maybe I'll have one someday. Thanks for the detailed reports, it'll be useful if I ever do.

[Jniedbalski]

If the cases are to short could you just leave the bullet out long and headspace on the bullet instead of the case? Just wondering