Tree of Heaven

[MrWolf]

Several posters have stated that tree of heaven is a good substitute for willow. I did some research on the Internet and "think" I may have found some but I am not that good with tree identification. Here are two pics. The underside of the leaf has the small gland that was mentioned in one of the identification videos. Is this tree of heaven? Thanks,

Ron
241900241901

[MrWolf]

Wow. 100 views and no responses. I don't feel so bad now not being able to identify one.

[redhawk0]

It looks like it to me...but really difficult to tell....so many "sumac" varieties look like this. what does the tree bark look like? Does it stink when you peel it while its green?

redhawk

[dbosman]

That is one of the Tree of Heaven species.

[MrWolf]

I couldn't really get to its trunk easily. Will try when it stops raining. It's funny, before I really started looking for them I would have sworn they were not on my property. Seem to be on the edges of cleared areas. Thanks dbosman, I think it is too.

[john.k]

Tree of heaven is a category E weed here............on the local councils invasive species list...So ,shouldnt be much trouble finding it ....In general ,bushes that are fast growing with a hard wood are OK for BP charcoal.......slower growing hardwoods tend to have too much ash content.

[Buzz Krumhunger]

A stinky, noxious, invasive plant that will take over your yard or lot if you let it.
They actually grow so densely that it can be difficult to walk through a stand of them. No way I would consider planting one. In fact I have been trying to control them on our ranch for the past 9 years. I am losing the battle in some areas.

[indian joe]

Willow --A weed of National Significance ----heres the ** story.
"The problem Most species of willow are Weeds of National Significance. They are amongthe worst weeds in Australia because oftheir invasiveness, potential for spread,and economic and environmentalimpacts. They have invaded riverbanksand wetlands in temperate Australia,occupying thousands of kilometres ofstreams and numerous wetland areas.Unlike most other vegetation, willowsspread their roots into the bed of awatercourse, slowing the flow of waterand reducing aeration. They form thicketswhich divert water outside the mainwatercourse or channel, causing floodingand erosion where the creek banks arevulnerable. Willow leaves create a flushof organic matter when they drop inautumn, reducing water quality andavailable oxygen, and directly threateningaquatic plants and animals. This, togetherwith the amount of water willows use,damages stream health

This lunacy is what you get when you let bureaucrats run things - see they did a computer calculation and figured how much water willows use - then they used that number to calculate an "effect" on stream flow - then they calclulated how much money the govt department could have got dfrom selling that water to downstream cotton growers ------then ------they cooked up a story how willows were damaging the environment --then they went to another arm of govt and got grants to attack the willows -- pushed the story out through landcare groups and other green volunteer organisations ------millions have been spent tearing out willows from pretty tree - lined creeks in the hills - picturesque little valleys gutted - clear felled the willows, burnt the wood, and off they went mission accomplished. What gets me the most is how many rural people including farmers fell for this joke just like they are now falling hook line and sinker for the global warming/climate change debacle

[lavenatti]

It's everywhere where I line in Northern NJ. The leaf you posted looks right. The bark is another good indicator, it should be a silvery gray color.

[Boz330]

You can just peel some bark back with your thumb nail and smell it. It is a very obnoxious smell. If you stand and watch it for a couple minutes you can see it grow. A little exaggeration but it grows very fast. It does look right though.

Bob

[MrWolf]

Thanks folks. I will do my best to get rid of (make charcoal) of as much of these as I find. I am still amazed as to how oblivious I was with it growing right on my driveway/road.

[Huvius]

You will be quite surprised (at least I was) at the smoky smell this wood gives off from the retort.
I never thought such a stinky plant such as Tree of Hell (as we call it) or Sumac could produce smoke so great smelling!
I looked it up, thinking I had stumbled upon the next big secret in charcuterie, only to find that many boutique smoked foods outfits and posh restaurants already use Sumac wood and charcoal!

[leeggen]

walnut has a corse bark and 10 to 15 leaflets on each stembut can have as many as 20. Tree of heaven is a smooth bark and has as many as 15 to 44 leaflets per stem. After seeing them side by side you will be glad to cut Tree of heaven as fast as you can and leave the walnut alone. I cut 7 to remove and I burn them for winter wood. Now in the same area 12 are growing an just begging to be cut down, which will happen very soon.
CD

[MrWolf]

My first test attempt at making charcoal from it failed. I didn't take off the bark as I only used a gallon paint can. I tried it in my outside whole house wood burner that is basically only used to burn cardboard as it leaks, etc.. I could still see heat coming from the unit the next day. When I opened the can it looked like basically nothing had happened. Oh well. Gonna do it the right way next time. I hoped just putting the can in the burner would work from the heat.

[John Boy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailanthus_altissima

The steps for the charcoal of Swiss Sporting powder are:
* Alder Buckthorn branches are obtained in the Spring when they a full of sugar (glucose)
* Then the bark is removed from the branches
* The branches are stacked in ricks for 3 years - thoroughly dried
* The branches then are put in the retort and baked to a temperature not exceeding 320 Centigrade (608 Fahrenheit)
* Then the charcoal is crushed and mixed into the mill with the sulfur and potassium nitrate (saltpeter)
If this Tree of Heaven branches has no glucose ... your wasting your time and the black powder will be piss poor

[MrWolf]

John, in another black powder thread the tree of heaven was discussed in place of willow. Evidently it performs well as charcoal for BP. I can't purchase BP locally so figured I might as well try something new. I haven't fired my flintlock yet.

[John Boy]

J
ohn, in another black powder thread the tree of heaven was discussed in place of willow.Sorry - never say such an article ... Good Luck

[redhawk0]

My first test attempt at making charcoal from it failed. I didn't take off the bark as I only used a gallon paint can. I tried it in my outside whole house wood burner that is basically only used to burn cardboard as it leaks, etc.. I could still see heat coming from the unit the next day. When I opened the can it looked like basically nothing had happened. Oh well. Gonna do it the right way next time. I hoped just putting the can in the burner would work from the heat.

Tell me a little more about your retort. You said a gallon paint can. Did you completely seal it? I use a 8 quart Stainless Steel Pot with a Stainless lid. In the lid I drilled two 1/2" holes to let smoke out. I put this is my patio firepit and turn it frequently for the first 30 minutes to "roast" the wood...it will start to smoke pretty hard after about 30-45 minutes. Light the smoke coming out of the holes if it hasn't caught on already from the fire. When it stops smoking or your fire goes out after about 3-4 hours (starting with dry ToH wood)...then it should be finished. My 2 gallon makes about 1 lb of charcoal. (1.5 quarts)

redhawk

Retort
243606

Retort with lid fixed in place with a piece of flat-bar stock. It should be air tight around the rim so only the smoke comes out the two 1/2" holes.
243607

[Boz330]

JSorry - never say such an article ... Good Luck

Muzzle Loading thread, sticky at the top of the page. Lots of references in there. If you aren't interested in making your own powder it is a very long read.
I was one of the first to use TOH and it gave me 50fps more velocity than the willow that I had been using in a 40-65, which got it within 25fps of what I was getting with Swiss 2F and with less weight. My powder is not as dense as Swiss but yields more velocity per grain by weight. It is not good enough powder for competition but works fine for hunting and informal shooting out to 300yd. I have taken 2 deer with my BPCR and 1 with my ML and multiple squirrels with it in a trade gun. Just a fun project if you like DIY stuff.
There are guys that are ringing out pretty good accuracy in that thread.

Bob

[indian joe]

Muzzle Loading thread, sticky at the top of the page. Lots of references in there. If you aren't interested in making your own powder it is a very long read.
I was one of the first to use TOH and it gave me 50fps more velocity than the willow that I had been using in a 40-65, which got it within 25fps of what I was getting with Swiss 2F and with less weight. My powder is not as dense as Swiss but yields more velocity per grain by weight. It is not good enough powder for competition but works fine for hunting and informal shooting out to 300yd. I have taken 2 deer with my BPCR and 1 with my ML and multiple squirrels with it in a trade gun. Just a fun project if you like DIY stuff.
There are guys that are ringing out pretty good accuracy in that thread.

Bob

Bob
I am curious why you say "not good enough for competition" ? (not the first time you said that) ..... have you been unable to get consistent velocity ? or are you letting others wise words bluff you into this conclusion ? I have had ten shot strings just under 10FPS Extreme spread with homebrew willow, I wonder (am doubtful) would Swiss do any better ? I bet you are under rating what you do.............

[MrWolf]

I put about a 3/8" hole in the paint can. Sealed up tight. My problem was I just stuck it in the back of the wood burner and left it as I had to keep feeding cardboard. I thought with the kinda heat generated it would work but only one or two pieces even had singe marks on them. I think the pail requires actual direct contact with the fire but since it is my first try I am just guessing.

[redhawk0]

Ah...yes...that's the problem...I put my retort in the firepit and keep feeding wood. I pack it on all sides and underneath. I keep moving things around for the 3-4 hours that it takes to make charcoal. Pushing coals underneath the retort to keep the heat up from the bottom. I just let the fire lick up the sides....I usually don't generate enough coals in the firepit to mound them up the sides.

Anyway....3/8" hole in a paint can should be enough. You want the smoke/vapors to get out (light them)...and let as little air as possible in. Air creates ash...that's bad. Ash has very little carbon left in it so it isn't good for your mix.

redhawk

[Boz330]

Bob
I am curious why you say "not good enough for competition" ? (not the first time you said that) ..... have you been unable to get consistent velocity ? or are you letting others wise words bluff you into this conclusion ? I have had ten shot strings just under 10FPS Extreme spread with homebrew willow, I wonder (am doubtful) would Swiss do any better ? I bet you are under rating what you do.............

Just referring to my powder, I don't take the pains to press it in a hydraulic press, just a bench vice, so the density isn't as consistent from puck to puck. Extreme spreads aren't all that bad, but at distance vertical is a problem. I never started out to produce powder for shooting competition just hunting and to prove I could make it.
There isn't enough time to make the powder I would need for competition and make a living to so I depend on Old Eynsford for targets and Silhouettes. I have used it several times for grins and giggles but the scores show the difference. When and if I retire I might get the stuff together to try and produce more consistent powder but right now I'm just having fun. It feels pretty good to fill the freezer with homemade powder, bullets, and gun.

[Edward]

That sure looks like the definition of fun ,and looking at the deer admiring the gun that got him (impressive )

[swamp]

I use a 1 gal. paint can to make charcoal. I drilled a 1/8 hole in the lid. I use a propane burner for a heat source. When the smoke starts to lesson up, I put a screw in the hole. When smoke stops completely it comes off the heat. So far it works well for me.
swamp

[BrentD]

Just referring to my powder, I don't take the pains to press it in a hydraulic press, just a bench vice, so the density isn't as consistent from puck to puck. Extreme spreads aren't all that bad, but at distance vertical is a problem. I never started out to produce powder for shooting competition just hunting and to prove I could make it.
There isn't enough time to make the powder I would need for competition and make a living to so I depend on Old Eynsford for targets and Silhouettes. I have used it several times for grins and giggles but the scores show the difference. When and if I retire I might get the stuff together to try and produce more consistent powder but right now I'm just having fun. It feels pretty good to fill the freezer with homemade powder, bullets, and gun.

Great photo and a great goal that you have accomplished. I'm totally impressed!

[Boz330]

Great photo and a great goal that you have accomplished. I'm totally impressed!

Thanks Brent. It is a genetic fault, I use to tear all my toys apart to see how they worked and sometimes got them back together. Same as a teenager with cars. The biggest chore was building my house, thought that I bit off more than I could chew with that one. I didn't start out to do it but when a few things went south I was forced into it but fortunately had some really good friends that lent a hand at the right times. Seems I always had more time than money so DIY worked.

Bob

[indian joe]

Just referring to my powder, I don't take the pains to press it in a hydraulic press, just a bench vice, so the density isn't as consistent from puck to puck. Extreme spreads aren't all that bad, but at distance vertical is a problem. I never started out to produce powder for shooting competition just hunting and to prove I could make it.
There isn't enough time to make the powder I would need for competition and make a living to so I depend on Old Eynsford for targets and Silhouettes. I have used it several times for grins and giggles but the scores show the difference. When and if I retire I might get the stuff together to try and produce more consistent powder but right now I'm just having fun. It feels pretty good to fill the freezer with homemade powder, bullets, and gun.

that is a purty piece of wood on that roller - yr right about the fun bit too,

[MrWolf]

I use a 1 gal. paint can to make charcoal. I drilled a 1/8 hole in the lid. I use a propane burner for a heat source. When the smoke starts to lesson up, I put a screw in the hole. When smoke stops completely it comes off the heat. So far it works well for me.
swamp

That gives me something to think about. Thanks.

[swamp]

MrWolf,
I cut my wood into 1-2 inch pieces to maximize space in the can. Plus it gives my band saw some exercise.
swamp