New vaquero shoots to the left

[Tripplebeards]

I took it out yesterday and set up a water bottle at about 20/25 yards away. I shot the first four rounds and I hit about 3” to the left in a group the size of a silver dollar. I readjusted my aim point to about 2/3” to the right of the bottle and hit it 14 tines in a row. I did some research and it sounds like the barrel can be turned or rear sight opened on the right side to fix the aim point? I called ruger and since it was manufactured four years ago they said if I pay them for $30 shipping charge I can send it back for them to mess with it.


Any ideas on how to fix the aim myself or am I better off to send it in? I figured I’m going to go out and try it again before I do anything with it I’m going to double check the sights over and take a buddy with to let him shoot it as well to see if it’s the pistol or me shooting it.

[DougGuy]

Better to send it in that's cheap. I had a Vaquero that shot 8" - 10" left at 25yds, sent it in and by the time they clocked the front sight enough to get it to shoot to the sights, LOL the barrel was choked down to .448" or something like that. It was severely choked and required Taylor throat reaming to fix it. Too much to firelap, too tight to shoot it as it was.

[stubshaft]

I'd do it myself! If you have Ruger do it and upon return the gun shoots to the right watcha gonna do? I had an elevation issue with a Lipsey Bisley and returned it to Ruger. I sent it back to them and got it back three months later with a note saying that it was within their parameters...

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I had, and still have to some extent, the same problem with a brand new Ruger New Model Vaquero I purchased around 2010. It shot a good foot to the left at 15 yards. I contacted Ruger via e-mail and told them about the problem and the handload I was using. They came back with we only use Winchester factory ammo to test new Vaqueros -- try some and see how it shoots. I just happened to have about half a box of Win. .45 Colt purchased in about 1959, so I tried it out, and it was better but not as good as I'd like. I considered the possible fixes you have mentioned, but to just turn the barrel a bit leaves the sight off of top dead center, which is something I've always noticed on firearms that had off center sights, and just bending the front blade over a bit is annoying also.As for filing a bit off the appropriate side of the rear sight, that might be a good solution except that it's so permanent. and then restricts you to the load that it works with. I think the best solution is to start over with a new barrel, and maybe I'll get around to doing that on my NM Vaquero someday, but meanwhile acquired some Uberti 1873s that I like much better.
241812

As good as it ever got. 15 yds.

[Texas by God]

I've seen many an old revolver with a bent front sight. A friend shot CAS for years with a Uberti 1875 Remington. 45LC with a bent sight. I shot it a few times and it was dead on.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[DougGuy]

Tripplebeards, let me ask you a question. Can you stand in the Weaver stance, 2 hand hold, and dry fire your gun (unloaded of course) and hold the sights motionless? If you can hold them absolutely still through 10-12 shots, I would say the problem MAY be in the gun. If the sights move any at all, then the problem may not be with the gun at all but the shooter.

Many times I have had to pull off one leg of the trigger return spring and let it hang to lessen trigger pressure enough that I could hold the sights still. Beyond that I often recommend swapping in a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring, this makes it a WHOLE LOT easier to hold those sights perfectly still in dry fire. If you can do this in dry fire, remember your grip, and how you pulled your trigger finger, you should be able to duplicate the same firing action in live fire.

It's a kneejerk reaction for a right handed shooter to pull to the left after the shot breaks, I actually pull my trigger with my finger pulling in the direction of my right shoulder, not straight back. This just works great for me.

Oh yeah... DO NOT try and bend your front sight blade, as the blade itself is stronger than the silver solder holding it on the barrel and in an instant you can break that puppy off.

[SSGOldfart]

Mine is off about 2" to the left too, Humm starting see a pattern develop here.

[TNsailorman]

I have always had a little trouble shooting single action revolvers(which I don't shoot much). I consistently shoot just a tad left and a tad low. I have always used a dead center hold on my double action revolvers. I have learned to hold about 1 o'clock for the single action that I have right now(Ruger Vaquero .45Colt). The Ruger is a replacement for an older Vaquero that had problems and Ruger sent me this one. The factory target they sent with it shows 5 out of 6 shots shooting about 1 inch left but level. Works for me.

[Walks]

I've found that windage with fixed sight revolvers can depend on how much trigger finger you're using. Too much and it pulls to the right, too little and and it pulls to the left.

My Old VAQUERO'S, a pair of 7 1/2" .45Colt's are dead on at 25yds with Factory Win/REM 250/255's.

My New Vaquero 5 1/2" .45Colt shoots 2 inches left.
To correct this I put my entire trigger finger, past the 1st joint onto the trigger. This pulls the POI to the right.

Same thing apply's to Colt's but even more so. And I do have a couple of clones who's front sights lean a bit to the side. Usually the right.

Sometimes changing the load will change POI. A light/heavier bullet or a faster/slower moving bullet.
Either can change point of impact.
Experiment a bit.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I've seen many an old revolver with a bent front sight. A friend shot CAS for years with a Uberti 1875 Remington. 45LC with a bent sight. I shot it a few times and it was dead on.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Yup..but it ain't right, and it's irritating.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

My Old VAQUERO'S, a pair of 7 1/2" .45Colt's are dead on at 25yds with Factory Win/REM 250/255's.

Yup...mine also. A .44-40 and a .44 Mag. Seems like something changed between old and new.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I have learned to hold about 1 o'clock for the single action that I have right now(Ruger Vaquero .45Colt).

That would exactly solve the problem with mine, but dead on is better.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Mine is off about 2" to the left too, Humm starting see a pattern develop here.

Sure seems so. Haven't read yet where "Mine shoots to the right!"

[shooting on a shoestring]

I sort of hate to mention this bc many a gun has been ruined by Bubba The Wannabe Gunsmith, but if the problem really is the gun and not the shooter, the barrel can be bent. Of course once you put a revolver in a press, one outcome is you get it to shoot where you want. Let me stress that’s just ONE of the many possible outcomes.

This is one of those things where if you haven’t done it, you shouldn’t.

[DougGuy]

(Doug envisions the evil little stick-on guy on the back window who's always peeing on a certain brand of truck's emblem bent over the press, with a laser bore sighter crammed into the barrel shining it's red dot on an old beer sign on the far wall of the shop, grinning and pulling the lever on the press) :bigsmyl2:

[Walks]

To slightly change the thread.

Many years ago I used to shoot at the LAPD Harbor Range. It was a semi-enclosed range. The firing points were enclosed in a concrete block room, covered. The Range was enclosed by 10foot concrete block walls open to the sky. It faced straight SOUTH.

In the Morning, 0800hrs the Sun slanted across the range East to West.
In the afternoon, 1600hrs the Sun slanted across the range West to East.

It would play Havoc with windage.

POI would shift from Morning to Evening. The angle of the Sun on the targets.

So I would shoot and make sight adjustments at NOON.

Then take what I got at other times. You could even get a different POI shooting at night.

Not that any of this helps the question.

Just interesting but obscure info.

[Tripplebeards]

Didnt realize I had mixed head stamps but I’m sure that’s not going to cause the shift only group sizes.

[SSGOldfart]

Didnt realize I had mixed head stamps but I’m sure that’s not going to cause the shift only group sizes.

Might cause a few flyers which will open up your groups.

[Texas by God]

Walks, that is why I smoke my handgun sights with a candle or match before I test for POI. I’ve seen what you state many, many times.

[jaguarxk120]

Why not try the pistol correction chart first.

The chart shows the shooter how to correct the hold on the gun and
move the group to center.

[bedbugbilly]

I'll echo what Texas by God stated - the fix for this on a SA for eons was to slightly bend the front sight in the direction needed to correct the windage.Before doing it though - the suggestion to work on your grind use the chart is what you should try before getting the small crescent wrench out. If the NV is new to you - it may be a matter grip hold adjustment? I had a NV in 357 - 5 1/2" - I have shot single action for 50 some years - mainly C # With much worse sights than the NV. I had the same issue you are having and finally changed the grips out to a set of Eagle "gun fighter grips" that I bought off a guy to try - those combined with my hand size and some work on my hold got me shooting straight - it was me and not the revolver. I've since sold the NV and have a Uberti 4 3/4" 357 Bisley - a much better "fit" for me and accurate right out of the box - so I was lucky. I then went with a Uberti Cattleman - 7 1/2" 45 Colt. That as well shot very accurately for me but has a whole different "feel" to me than a NV has.

Another thing - don't know what your shooting - but check your throats - my NV was born with very tight throats (all I shoot is cast) and they didn't all match each other. If you have an issue with your throats - get with DougGuy - he's well known for taking care of that problem and does excellent work from all reports.

[cub45]

Put the gun in a ramson rest and see where it shoots, may have to look around to find someone with one, but it will tell you what's going on.

[Tripplebeards]

Another thing - don't know what your shooting - but check your throats - my NV was born with very tight throats (all I shoot is cast) and they didn't all match each other. If you have an issue with your throats - get with DougGuy - he's well known for taking care of that problem and does excellent work from all reports.

It’s been checked. My throats are about as close in tolerance as they can get which explains why it shot tight groups right off the bat with my first cast load.

I’m still pretty tickled how tight it shot. It’s getting point of impact on center now.

I shot a few high powered factory loads through last summer and it was all over the place so I now know it just didn’t like that load.

[Dale53]

My shooting buddy for years, shot just about as well as I did. However, his point of impact, using the same revolvers, was quite different than mine. He shot low left several inches at 25 yards when the revolvers were sighted for me. So, it just may be the shooter's method of holding, etc.

I am a BIg fan of adjustable sights for obvious reasons. However, a number of years ago, I was very active in Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette competition. Some matches had side matches for revolvers. The regs demanded a single action fixed sighted revolver. I bought a 4 5/8" Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt for my match gun. I first settled on a load that shot well. Then, I set about regulating the sights. I was quite fortunate in that the revolver was perfect for windage and it shot low. That was great! It was just a matter of removing a bit from the top of the front sight. Since our eyes sometimes vary a bit day to day, I decided to take just a bit off each of three different days. i ended up with a revolver that shot dead center at 25 yards. And-d-d, it shot really well.

Then, after a few matches, I decided I would be better served with a slightly longer barrel (for a longer sight radius). At the same time, I wanted to try a Bisley grip. So, a dealer wanted my Vaquero (he had seen me shoot it on more than one occasion and was impressed by it shooting to the sights). I took the money and bought a new Ruger Bisley with 5 1/2" barrel also in .45 Colt. Low and behold, that revolver shot to the sights with my chosen load right out of the box! Talk about being lucky!!!

At any rate, I had a pretty good run with that revolver winning a number of matches. It also made a dandy field pistol. I also had a smokeless load that shot to the sights, too. I still have that very nice revolver. It is a dandy:

https://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/RugerVaquero-2.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/RugerVaquero-2.jpg.html)

[Groo]

Groo here
There are a number of front sights for this.
Freedom Arms makes a dovetail sight [ in different hights] that can be fit and adjusted.
This would be a forever fix that would allow a change later if needed.

[str8wal]

2" @ 25 yards would require about 1/64" of sight adjustment. I expect you'd be able to bend the front sight that much if so desired.

[DougGuy]

I expect you'd be able to bend the front sight that much if so desired.

LOL.. I don't guess any of y'all have ACTUALLY done this, b/c the sight is hard soldered on and it will BREAK OFF in a NEW YORK INSTANT!!

[Walks]

I can shoot with either hand. My DAD made sure of that. In my "paired" revolver sets. I have RightHand and Left Hand revolvers.

It seems I shoot Right eye/Right hand and Left eye/Left hand. Happens with all 3 sets of SA's.

Colt SAA's .44spl 5 1/2", Ruger Old Vaquero's .45Colt 7 1/2" and SA clones .44WCF 7 1/2".

I shoot one revolver better with one hand rather then the other.

Just weirdness associated with shooting hand guns.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Doug is right on this, folks, heed his words. I've replaced two of them in past years when I was gunsmithing. The sight blade has a curved bottom that fits into a shallow curved slot in the barrel and is soldered in. Excellent chance you'll pop it out of the slot when attempting to bend it. If not, it will probably be weakened and will go sailing off into the tall grass at some future shooting.

There is a mystery here, of so many of the NM Vaqueros shooting to the left. I am not at all convinced that it's a matter of grip. Even if it was, what a pain to have to adjust your normally used grip for a particular gun. Sometimes, when a barrel is removed from a revolver, it will be found that tiny metal chips were left in the threads during the manufacturing process either on the threaded portion of the barrel or in the frame's threads; and that cleaning them out and reassembling will seat the barrel sufficiently different to improve performance. It's not that common, though, and I have trouble believing that this problem is due to poor cleaning during assembly at the factory. But I have come to believe that there is something just a bit amiss in their assembly of this particular model revolver, perhaps a jig that's a bit off or an employee with insufficiently corrected vision. There's just too many for it to be coincidence. I think the only real solution is to start over and rebarrel them, and I think that's a solution Ruger wants to avoid due to the expense. It's not like the recall of a design defect where liability may attach and they have to do it to avoid that liability. In this case the gun works and they'd rather that it be your problem. So, with that in mind, I think that the best recourse is to seek help from a private gunsmith who does revolver barrel work and have it rebarrelled. As I confessed in earlier posts, I own one of these and the best help I could get from the factory was advice to use factory ammo. I must confess, a bit shamefacedly, that I tried it out and then just put it back in it's box and stored it away where it remains today in like new condition. At the time I was very into single actions, still am to a certain point, and felt myself better served by shooting guns that shot to POA. Maybe I'll dig it out this summer and follow my own advice. As also previously noted, I've got two OM Vaqueros that shoot very well, and a half dozen Uberti revolvers that are excellent shooters. The last couple of years my interests have retrogressed back to 1851s, 1860s, and open tops. :Fire:

[Dan Cash]

To the OP: No more than you are off, change your grip. Get that right and all will be well.

[onelight]

Groo here
There are a number of front sights for this.
Freedom Arms makes a dovetail sight [ in different hights] that can be fit and adjusted.
This would be a forever fix that would allow a change later if needed.
I like this . I dovetailed front sights into some of my cap and ball revolvers I wish they came with them.

[Tripplebeards]

LOL.. I don't guess any of y'all have ACTUALLY done this, b/c the sight is hard soldered on and it will BREAK OFF in a NEW YORK INSTANT!!

Doug, I believe you...and won’t be bending mine.

[Froogal]

I have a Uberti Cattleman in .45 Colt that seemed to consistently shoot low and to the left. I was blaming the gun, but actually it was me. With a little more practice and determination, I can now hit a 4" wide steel target from 20 yards. A good stance, determination, and controlled breathing did the trick. Now, after having said all of that, I probably will not be able to hit the broad side of a barn.

[Texas by God]

Just for the record, I didn't say to bend the sight; just that I have seen it before. Another trick is to epoxy a shim on the side of the front sight and file the other side to correct windage. Then you have to dress it up and paint it but you'll be hitting right. But like stated make sure it's not the shooter first.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[35 Whelen]

I have a Uberti Cattleman in .45 Colt that seemed to consistently shoot low and to the left. I was blaming the gun, but actually it was me. With a little more practice and determination, I can now hit a 4" wide steel target from 20 yards. A good stance, determination, and controlled breathing did the trick. Now, after having said all of that, I probably will not be able to hit the broad side of a barn.

This guy gets it. SA revolvers shooting left is far, far to common of a subject for the problem to always lie with the revolvers, and adjustable sights are simply a means by which shooters can continue with their bad shooting habits. A handgunner on another forum pointed out that if one will notice used revolvers with adjustable sights, one will see that most of them are adjusted far to the right.

I say all this as a rabid SA shooter for the last 10+ years. I learned the hard way that it wasn't the revolver, it was me.

So keep practicing and work on follow through when shooting, and I assure you these left-shooting revolvers will suddenly start shooting center.

35W

[Love Life]

This guy gets it. SA revolvers shooting left is far, far to common of a subject for the problem to always lie with the revolvers, and adjustable sights are simply a means by which shooters can continue with their bad shooting habits. A handgunner on another forum pointed out that if one will notice used revolvers with adjustable sights, one will see that most of them are adjusted far to the right.

I say all this as a rabid SA shooter for the last 10+ years. I learned the hard way that it wasn't the revolver, it was me.

So keep practicing and work on follow through when shooting, and I assure you these left-shooting revolvers will suddenly start shooting center.

35W

I agree wholeheartedly.

[sandog]

How much of your trigger finger you use could make a small difference.
I always set up a target with a new gun, whether it's a fixed or adjustable sight.
And use a rest. A water bottle isn't the best target to be using.

Filing the rear sight notch isn't really an option when the rear "sight", like on a Vaquero, is a long groove in the frame.
I am set up to turn barrels on Colt and Ruger SA's, with a Brownells frame clamp, and hardwood blocks and rosin to grip the barrel. For a bigger windage problem, 2 inches or more, I'd turn the barrel.
For less than two inches, putting a slight bend in the sight will work.

But for someone that doesn't have those tools to turn the barrel, you'd be better off taking Ruger up on their $30 offer and send it in.
Different weights of bullets will show a different POI as far as elevation, but won't do much for a windage problem.
Different brands might help the windage some, but I doubt there would be 3 inches of difference.

I have bent the front sight over on many revolvers, if it is a slight windage problem.
But I did it knowing that I reload, and I could crank out that same load for years. If you are just buying whatever factory load you find, every time you change ammo you will see a different POI.

When bending over the sight you'll want to pad the sight so the pliers don't scratch it, and if you don't go overboard and try to bend it too much, you won't even notice it.
If you have to try to compensate for a large windage problem, the sight will be leaning so much it will bug you.
One, or maybe two bends will not break the sight off, but when you try to bend it back the other direction is when you really weaken that silver solder bond and could break the sight off..

Before sending it in to Ruger, I'd try to bend it slightly (if you are shooting left you want to bend the sight slightly to the left) and then see how it shoots.
If you are still having a problem, then send it in to Ruger.
They aren't going to get upset if the gun comes to them with a slightly bent over front sight.

[megasupermagnum]

You can always adjust to the gun, but if it isn't consistent from each gun you have, what good is it? I can't tell you how many fixed sight guns I've shot over the years, and I can't think of even one that hit exactly where I aimed, especially with the ammo I want to use. Is it my fault? Maybe some, but they all hit different places. The 4 most recent I can remember are a Sig P220 (technically windage adjustable with a punch), SP101, LCR, and a Heritage 22 lr. The Sig hits dead on windage, but about 4-6" low at 25 yards. I've since learned Sig intends the center of the dot to be on, so technically it's perfect. It's not right for me. My SP101 shoots about 4" low and 2" left. The LCR shoots about 10" to the right. The Heritage was shooting 12" high at least.

When you throw in the variable of ammo, it's just ridiculous to blame an experienced shooter.

Unfortunately there is almost nothing you can do. Shooting 2-3" to the left can be fixed by trying different ammo until it hits POA. That ammo almost always turns out to group like junk. If it shoots low, you can easily file the front sight. If it hits a significant amount left or right, not much you can do. Ruger might fix it. If it hits high, you are SOL.

Such is the life of fixed sight guns, it's my opinion that they are one step up from plain useless. I'd rather they just put a bead for a front sight, don't bother milling the top strap.

[DougGuy]

Shooting 2" to the left can be fixed by trying different ammo until it hits POA.

This could be solely attributed to the gun itself.

Tripplebeards, I asked this earlier and got no response, guess it got lost in the shuffle. When you dry fire the unloaded gun, what do the sights do? Can you dry fire and hold them perfectly aligned and motionless as the hammer falls?

If the front sight jumps to the left, this is your trigger finger pulling to the left after the shot breaks, taking up the overtravel. This normally jerks the sight to the left and usually low as well, and the groups will often shoot to where you are pointing the front sight.

Ruger SA revolvers have a fairly stiff trigger with a lot of travel, and the trigger can still move rearward quite a bit once it breaks out from under the hammer hook and the hammer begins to fall.

The BIGGEST aid you could get to help this, if in fact you are pulling it left, is to install a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring. If you don't want to do this, at least take off the grips and pull one leg of the trigger return spring off and let it hang beside the hammer spring, it won't hurt nothing like that. NOW, try dry firing. SEE if pulling half the spring off makes it easier to hold the sights motionless while you dry fire.

I would work through this simple exercise until I can hold the sights still in dry fire, then memorize your grip and how your trigger finger pulls the trigger and do the same thing in live fire. I would do this before I would blame the gun for shooting left.

[35 Whelen]

You can always adjust to the gun, but if it isn't consistent from each gun you have, what good is it? I can't tell you how many fixed sight guns I've shot over the years, and I can't think of even one that hit exactly where I aimed, especially with the ammo I want to use. Is it my fault? Maybe some, but they all hit different places. The 4 most recent I can remember are a Sig P220 (technically windage adjustable with a punch), SP101, LCR, and a Heritage 22 lr. The Sig hits dead on windage, but about 4-6" low at 25 yards. I've since learned Sig intends the center of the dot to be on, so technically it's perfect. It's not right for me. My SP101 shoots about 4" low and 2" left. The LCR shoots about 10" to the right. The Heritage was shooting 12" high at least.

When you throw in the variable of ammo, it's just ridiculous to blame an experienced shooter.

Unfortunately there is almost nothing you can do. Shooting 2-3" to the left can be fixed by trying different ammo until it hits POA. That ammo almost always turns out to group like junk. If it shoots low, you can easily file the front sight. If it hits a significant amount left or right, not much you can do. Ruger might fix it. If it hits high, you are SOL.

Such is the life of fixed sight guns, it's my opinion that they are one step up from plain useless. I'd rather they just put a bead for a front sight, don't bother milling the top strap.

I own by far more fixed sighted handguns than those with adjustable sights. In fact of the 20+ handguns I own, exactly 6 of them have adjustable sights. I've had too many negative experiences with adjustable sights with their tiny springs and screws and fragile blades. Fine for shooting under controlled conditions but too iffy for field use, in my opinion/experience.

With a couple of exceptions, the single advantage of adjustable sights is simply a better sight picture. Some exceptions that come to mind are the old Charter Arms Bulldog, a Ruger Police Service Six, and the few semi-autos I own, all which have fixed sights that are easy to see. A quality handgun, properly manufactured will not mysteriously shoot to the left or right. Barring a substandard crown or a misaligned barrel/improperly installed barrel, good handguns should (and do)shoot straight.

Regarding ammunition and POI, lateral variation should have nothing to do with the ammunition; in other words, there's no reason one load should group center and another group left or right. When I shoot one of my handguns and POI is left or right, the problem, 100% of the time is my technique, and in almost every instance I'm not following through after the shot, that is, allowing the handgun to "do it's thing" after the sear breaks. Vertical variation is another matter entirely, and can vary not only with different bullet weights but with light conditions, the amount of "grip" the shooter is using, how he/she holds the handgun and how well they understand and control follow through.

I've found vertical POI variation with ammunition is highly caliber dependent. For example, my 4 3/4" Uberti .357 with it's relatively low muzzle rise because of its heavier barrel, is much easy to shoot at distance. Same for my 32-20. My .44 Specials are relatively easy too and shooting groups on my 75 yd. 12" steel target is fairly simple whether using slow loads at 750-800 fps or hunting loads over 1100 fps. My Uberti 4 3/4" 45 Colt is a different matter. For whatever reason, POI's vary quite a bit with an equivalent to the "original" load (250 gr. RNFP @ ~850 fps) shooting much lower than my hunting load which is a 288 gr. cast SWC a little under 1000 fps. With any revolver I simply regulate my sights to the most important load; that with which I will be hunting. Really quite simple with everything except the 45 Colt.

Fixed sights in the hands of truly experienced handgunners aren't much of a handicap. Last year I bought a 40 lpi checkering file and took it to the rear of the front sights of several of my SA revolvers. What a huge difference it made in the sight picture! No more glare from sunlight hitting the front sight.

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%2032-20/Front%20Sight-red_zpsqswmsbp9.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%2032-20/Front%20Sight-red_zpsqswmsbp9.jpg.html)

Your assertion that fixed sights are next to useless is itself ridiculous. Once a shooter learns proper technique with handguns, fixed sights are as capable as adjustable.

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2025%20yds._zpswpbjdqcv.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2025%20yds._zpswpbjdqcv.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Hombre%2075%20yds._zps478i1iev.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Hombre%2075%20yds._zps478i1iev.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2050%20yds.%20MBC_zpsxyczyz2g.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2050%20yds.%20MBC_zpsxyczyz2g.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2075%20yds%2045-270%20edited_zpsc5kix4z8.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2075%20yds%2045-270%20edited_zpsc5kix4z8.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Hombre%2075%20yds._zpso8h5qtye.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Hombre%2075%20yds._zpso8h5qtye.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Cimarron%20Model%20P/Cimarron%20Model%20P%2075%20yards%20labeled_zpsads 81sj4.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Cimarron%20Model%20P/Cimarron%20Model%20P%2075%20yards%20labeled_zpsads 81sj4.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Cimarron%20Model%20P/Cimarron%20Model%20P-red_zpscdyvlthh.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Cimarron%20Model%20P/Cimarron%20Model%20P-red_zpscdyvlthh.jpg.html)

So, I STILL say SHOOT until everyone thinks you've lost your mind before you go to bending sights and turning barrels.


35W

[Tripplebeards]

I tried a wolf spring in it and it made the pull heavier. Same with my 1st and second stage in my andaconda. Both factory trigger springs i ended up putting back in after some polishing. My vaquero brakes at 2 lbs 4 oz. I pull the trigger with just the tip of my finger like I do when I'm using a target rifle or predator rig. I still can't find what someone referred to as a hold chart. I know the pistol feels small in my hand with ruger factory faux ivory grips.

[sandog]

I don't think fixed sights are useless, I can shoot quite well with them once they are regulated.
I can see if a guy is new to handgun shooting, that perhaps he needs to work on technique and his hold.
But for us guys that have been shooting for decades, and have multiple handguns, I for sure don't want to
"adapt" my grip for a certain handgun, then maybe another handgun will need a slightly different grip to hit right on, and yet another grip will need yet another grip variation, etc.

That would be like me, who wears a 36 waist, buying pants that are a 32 waist, and I have to go on a diet so I can wear them. Then I buy a pair that are a 40 waist, and I have to gain weight to wear them.
Much easier just to buy a pair that fits from the get-go.
Another analogy would be when you get into a car that you haven't driven before. You can drive it for years with your body pressed up against the steering wheel, or so far back you can't reach the pedals, or you could adjust the darn seat so it is just right.

I hold my handguns a certain way, and always have. I don't want to have to remember to do something different every time I pick up a different gun.
Mike Venturino, in his book "Sixguns of the Old West", explains how ( and why you should) regulate a fixed sight revolver much better than I did.

I'm not saying bend the front sight, file a bit off the top of it, or turn the barrel right away, but if it comes down to it, don't be afraid to do it, if that's what it takes.

This Cimarron Colt clone was grouping well with my handload, but was shooting to the right for me ( I'm left handed).
So I bent the front sight slightly and filed off the top of the front sight, then it was hitting dead on.
Much better than having to remember to hold high and to the left, or to grip this particular gun differently.
https://i.imgur.com/NxBFodNh.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

I agree with doug that bending the front sight should not be done on SAA style revolvers......they will break loose from the soldered slot the fit in. Back in the day when a lot of fixed sighted S&W and Colt DA revolvers had thin front sights machined integral to the barrel you could bend those w/o breaking them.

In the past with fixed sighted revolvers and with a OM Vaquero 44-40 I currently have that also shot slightly to the left no matter what I tried.......different bullets, different powders, different grips, etc. Having a barrel vise it was easy to just slightly turn the barrel in just a tudge. Tape was put on the frame and the barrel and their junction. Then with a sharp pencil a line was drawn across both. The barrel was then turned in 1/4 of the line width. It's sighted perfectly now.

242187

[DougGuy]

Some Italian clones, old Colts, front sights were thin and basically mild steel, easy to bend and the silver solder was very strong. Ruger front sights are thick, and that stainless is STOUT. The front sight blade is MUCH stronger than the solder holding it.


This is the Uberti Old West model, made 2006, look how thick the front sight is. This is one that would give up the solder joint before it would bend.. It's like arm wrestling. Look how thick the opponent is! No way would I try bending this one.

https://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/DSC03733crop768_zpsyheifbcl.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/DSC03733crop768_zpsyheifbcl.jpg.html)

[bigted]

I am reminded of a third gen Colt SAA that went away in a trade.

This revolver ALWAYS shot high and left with EVERY cast boolit load I loaded for it. Different lead alloys, different powders and loads, all kinda different primers in three different kinds of cases ... always shot high n left to different degree's. THEN I loaded some 158 grain Hornaday jacketed bullets over some IMR 4227 ... these shot to the point of aim ... RIGHT to point of aim.

Not being a feller to desire buying costly factory jacketed bullets, I again put this Colt 357 mag back through all the different loads, boolits and hardness as well as combo's with CCI, REM, FED primers. Still high n left ... finally traded it off as cast lead boolits are and will be my primary choice of bullet type. If they will never be able to be used in a costly revolver without doing some sort of modification that costs in the value of the revolver, then my feeling was and is to get my value outta it and move on to something that meets my criteria.

My current New Vaquero 45 Colt 4 5/8ths barrel length shoots cast boolits very well in the weight it likes and speed with its favorite powder.

Just sayin that your needs may not be met with a particular gun ... without mods. If its value to you is more then just money ... then modify till it shoots for you and your style.

[Tripplebeards]

I dose make sense about trying various loads and powder charges as I’ve seen them movie around on paper when I load test rifles at 100 yards but as others have said the loads might not group worth a darn when POA is centered. I loaded up the 18 rounds I fired out of my 50 cast loads and plan on letting all 50 go through it in 6 round intervals on separate targets to get a re confirm it’s shooting 3” to the left at 25 yards. I will be using my pistol rest in stead of free handing it for a few groups as well to see if it makes a difference in point of aim.

[Texas by God]

Every fixed sight S&W revolver I have fired was ON with normal loads. Same for 1911 Colts. Fixed sights are very useful and even desirable for ruggedness. I want one of those 40lpi files!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[35 Whelen]

Every fixed sight S&W revolver I have fired was ON with normal loads. Same for 1911 Colts. Fixed sights are very useful and even desirable for ruggedness. I want one of those 40lpi files!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Yep, they do a fantastic job.

Grobet Swiss Pattern File Checkerings Hand 6 Inch Cut 1 40 lines per inch (https://www.amazon.com/Grobet-Swiss-Pattern-Checkerings-lines/dp/B000OVPB8Q/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=checkering+file&qid=1558491690&s=gateway&sr=8-6)

Here's a before and after of the Hombre pictured in one of my previous posts. Despite the matte finish, the front sight was shiny from being drawn from and returned to a leather holster-

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/20181125_152316_zpsrvvxfbbl.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/20181125_152316_zpsrvvxfbbl.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/20181125_154320_zpsqrffja3h.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/20181125_154320_zpsqrffja3h.jpg.html)

35W

[DougGuy]

Those checkering files are for layout purposes more than finishing the job. You use the 40lpi file to establish the pattern, then use a fine cut triangular file to deepen the lines.

When my eyes were many years younger, I did a LOT of metal checkering. All kinds of 1911 stuff.

[Livin_cincy]

These charts can be helpful:
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

242247 Note- For Right Handed Shooter.

Read the article http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

You can dry fire practice balancing a coin on the barrel so your trigger pull does not drop the coin.

[Tripplebeards]

Thanks, I'm left handed but shoot and fish right.

Just my tip of my fingers is on the trigger there's only about a 1/4" of the tip overlapped before I have no finger on the trigger. Am I sopose to pull it on the exact tip of my finger?lol, to the point my finger almost slips off the trigger...because that's about where I'm going to be at if I slide it out any more. I've been shooting pistols since the early eighties and use to knock over bowling ball pins every shot at 100 yards with both 44 mag and 22 pistols. But that was with red dots installed. I'm sure I'm a little rusty since I haven't shot in quite a few years but I'll give it a try before I send it into Ruger again.

Maybe if I rapid thumb fire it will put me on the Money.lol

[JBinMN]

While Livin_Cincys chart in post#50 has the basically same info, this one below may help a bit more as it gives a bit more detail about what in particular to correct & as well as a couple more pie cuts to consider.:
https://pistolsnipe.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/color-rh-pistol-correction-chart-300x300.jpg

And what it is saying is that you are likely not having enough trigger finger on the trigger. Which may be partly due to the grips on the revolver & not just your hold.

I know this is aggravating. I had a Ruger Single Six in 22/22mag that annoyed the heck out of me with not hitting POA as I reckoned it should, until I traded it away. I just did not have the patience back then, I reckon...

G'Luck!

[Tripplebeards]

Just got back from the range. I shot the way I normally do and laid 2 shots almost touching at 25 yards. They of course shot 2” to the left. I put a little more finger on it it and the same close group to the right out 2”. The next one I hit in bullseye but a little high...I cut the difference in finger placement! Then I blew the last shot because I got excited. I then tried 6 grains of trail boss. 4 shots in a mice little circle about 1.5” outside to outside measurement if I had to guess...it was a hair low and 2” left again. I readjusted, trigger and shot the other two. One in the bulls and the other 3” right. I then tried some cast cowboy loads my pops bought. They were all over the place...even off my rest. I switched back to my 5.2 grain trailboss load and shot at broken pieces of clay pigeons laying under the 25 yard target. They ranged from the size of a quarter to silver dollar. I hit 6 for six! I think it helped to aim small. I just need to practice a little more because I believe the sights are probably fine and all on me and my trigger finger placement. I did try 50 yards...I was consistently low and left about a foot.lol

[DougGuy]

Yay!! The light at the end of the tunnel is NOT the train!!

Ok, let me ask this again. 3rd time. What do the sights do when you dry fire the gun? Can you dry fire and hold them perfectly still? That, is the REAL goal. If you have problems holding them still during lock time with dry fire, this is what's also causing you problems in live fire.

NORMALLY, lightening up the trigger return spring by either pulling one leg off and letting it hang or swapping in a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring will make a BIG difference in holding sights motionless. Try it with one leg off.

This may be on you, as you say, and not so much the gun, but this simple exercise and test is worth it's weight in ammo ten thousand times over if it allows you to master holding them sights while the hammer falls. If you haven't been practicing this, check it out.. I'm not telling you this b/c I think you can't shoot, I am telling you this so you will KNOW if you are pulling shots or holding still in lock time. Mastering this, is how you remove the "you" from the situation, and it's all on the gun after that.

[Tripplebeards]

I believe I pulled one leg off last year but don’t remember...I’ll have to check. Is it ok to dry fire my new model vaquero?

[DougGuy]

I believe I pulled one leg off last year but don’t remember...I’ll have to check. Is it ok to dry fire my new model vaquero?

Yes of course! It is a recommended exercise and important to be able to hold sights still..

[Texas by God]

Every time I see that correction target I think of this one[emoji16]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/09ca375e3f8a5c444b588abab6397ed1.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[JBinMN]

Every time I see that correction target I think of this one[emoji16]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/09ca375e3f8a5c444b588abab6397ed1.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Hahahahaha Funny!
:D

[Tripplebeards]

If I would have been shown that correction target first it would have made more sense.lol