wadcutters in 45LC at longer ranges

[DanWalker]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41_166&products_id=2684
Has anyone shot these at ranges beyond 25 yards? Did you have good accuracy with them? Looking at them as a possible 50-75 yard hunting bullet in my 45's.

[DougGuy]

Following..

That would no doubt be a good game killing boolit, but I don't see the bore rider ogive as a positive aspect.

The amount of shoulder proud of the case looks a little short to rest in the throat, it would be in the ball seat, and the .442" part would be in the throat. On firing, the front of the driving band has to carry up into the cylinder throat so with the alloy you want with a hunting boolit, damage will be done to at least 1/3 of the driving band. From this, it may not enter the barrel throat concentric. IF this design had a full wadcutter diameter all the way into the nose of the meplat, OR at least at full diameter far enough up the sides to engage the cylinder throats, I think it would add to the accuracy. My gut feel tells me it would be a whole lot better at 50yds if it was fit to the throats before firing. There isn't anything that I can see that would hold the round concentric in the chamber.

This is an LBT design, it is a full wadcutter but instead of being a bore rider, it has a smooth ogive and a longer bearing surface. This would fit in the throats nicely, and if put head to head with the NOE design, I have a feeling it would show an edge in the 50 to 75yd distance. I could be wrong, this is just gut feel...

I have shot these from 20yds only so far at 1200fps from a 5 1/2" New Model Vaquero (medium frame gun) over 21.5gr H110 in Schofield brass, in a 45 ACP cylinder reamed to 45 Schofield with promising results. Recoil is almost enjoyable, it's snappy but not at all sharp like the Ruger Only loads to 30kpsi, this one tops out about 22,500psi.

250 LBT OWC PB (Ogival Wad Cutter):

https://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/250_LBT_OWC-PB-1_zpsgja2fivw.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/250_LBT_OWC-PB-1_zpsgja2fivw.jpg.html)

[Drm50]

I shoot nothing but 242gr Button Nose WCs out of a couple S&W 25-5s. I usually shoot at 750fps with soft cast.
I made up a batch out of 50:50 lead/ WWs and cranked them up to 900fps. I have no trouble hitting a 12" gong at 100yds with them. A few years back I had 83/8" tuned for the hard ones at 900fps. Went deer hunting and had picked up the wrong ammo. I had the soft WCs / 750fps. Used them anyway and got my deer at 40yds.

[Blammer]

no on the 45 cal version.

I do have one in the 44mag version.

in my 44mag RSRH the accuracy lasts until about 60 yds. at 75 it gets bad quick. Like 5-8 inch pattern at 75 yds.

[DanWalker]

OK, so if full WC's are a no go at 50+ yards, what it the widest meplat boolit I can run and still get good accuracy at longer ranges? I already have a 320 Hammer boolit mold. Just looking for something lighter to shoot medium game with.

[DougGuy]

I wouldn't consider the NOE or the LBT a true full wadcutter. The LBT has a longer bearing surface, engages rifling quite a bit closer to the nose of the boolit compared to the NOE and I tried to explain that the smaller diameter of the NOE may not be conducive to accuracy, if it was larger and full diameter closer to the nose, I think it would be more accurate at distance. It may very well be this is the reason Blammer isn't getting any more out of it beyond 60yds.

The LBT that I showed a pic of is the largest meplat that I have seen for a 45, at .415"

[DanWalker]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/n.o.e._bullet_moulds_454-264-wc_pb_bl5_sketch.jpg Would this be better?

[DougGuy]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/n.o.e._bullet_moulds_454-264-wc_pb_bl5_sketch.jpg Would this be better?

That's also got a smaller diameter nose down to the driving band.

Here is the 250 LBT OWC PB showing the caliper set at .4420" this is where it engages the rifling, perhaps a thousandth lower if your bore is .4425" you can see where the bearing surfaces are, I ran this through a .452" sizer for the photo:

https://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/20190515_222628_zpsq38tnljt.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/20190515_222628_zpsq38tnljt.jpg.html)

[Good Cheer]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41_166&products_id=2684
Has anyone shot these at ranges beyond 25 yards? Did you have good accuracy with them? Looking at them as a possible 50-75 yard hunting bullet in my 45's.

You might have to adjust the diameters to your revolver.
And, with a bore rider the style of rifling you have can make a difference.
Richard Hoch made a .357 bore rider mold for me in '81 that was dimensioned for getting the lead out of the powder space in a non-stainless Security Six. Bore diameter about half way down the length of the tapered front end. He messed it up on the first try but the second one was perfect.
Wonderfully accurate in a Security Six but nothing else I tried it in. Other rifling styles like a Colt Python just sprayed landscape.

For .45 Colt my favorite boolit became a #450225 (HB / RFN) with the nose machined out to make a plain based HPWC with the pin adjustable length to tune the elevation. It has full boolit length barrel contact. But lack of penetration is an iron clad guarantee with that one.
Are you shooting a blued Ruger? If so you have plenty of strength to work with and the rifling likely suited to a bore rider design... are you planning on seating the boolit out to use a maximum amount of the cylinder length? Just curious so asking. It would probably be overkill on both ends but that possible significant increase in powder space can be put to use.
:rolleyes:

It's bedtime. G'nite y'all.

[smkummer]

Not trying to divert this tread but the accuracy I am getting with good old Lyman 454190 sized to .454 and 9 grains unique allows me to hit a 24” plate at 200 yards about 75% of the time. This is out of a 1920 colt new service 7 1/2” with very fine (small) fixed sights. I made a fine notch into the back side of the large shark fin front sight for the 200 yard setting.

My only experience with full wadcutters is 38 and after 50 yards, they loose their shine.

[DanWalker]

That's also got a smaller diameter nose down to the driving band.

Here is the 250 LBT OWC PB showing the caliper set at .4420" this is where it engages the rifling, perhaps a thousandth lower if your bore is .4425" you can see where the bearing surfaces are, I ran this through a .452" sizer for the photo:

https://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/20190515_222628_zpsq38tnljt.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/20190515_222628_zpsq38tnljt.jpg.html)

What kind of accuracy are you getting at 50+ yards with this bullet? Might see about getting a mold cut by mountain molds. Looking at a bore riding tangential Ogive, at around 265 grains. .385" nose length with an 80 percent meplat. Just need to know it is going to stabilize in my blackhawks.

[DougGuy]

What kind of accuracy are you getting at 50+ yards with this bullet? Might see about getting a mold cut by mountain molds. Looking at a bore riding tangential Ogive, at around 265 grains. .400" nose length with an 80 percent meplat. Just need to know it is going to stabilize in my blackhawks.

I have only shot these at 20yds Dan to be honest. I hunt whitetail where it is really thick, from a treestand, most shots are well within 25-30yds so my load development has been centered around this style of hunting. Ruger gave us a danged fine tier 2 platform with the medium framed guns and I figured they needed a load tailored to the tier 2 pressure ceiling and there really isn't any data out there that targets this 23,000psi pressure ceiling. I did mine in Schofield brass, so load density would be higher than in 45 Colt brass.

I used QL to get my hunting load data to arrive exactly where I was targeting, a wide flat meplat leaving the muzzle at 1200fps, hitting hide slightly above supersonic, without the recoil of the full blown Ruger Only loads. So far, it has proven itself in every way except I haven't pushed it out to distance b/c I hunt much shorter ranges with the Vaquero.

These are Montana Bullet Works offerings, I got them as cast. I would be glad to send you some, I can send some unsized unlubed or I can run them through the LAM2 with TAC1 lube and send them at .452" you would be able to test these on your terms and see if they might work for you. PM me an address and I can get you some out.

As far as a bore rider design, that wouldn't interest me because it's pretty well accepted that the best accuracy from a single action Ruger will happen with boolits fit to the throats. This has been proven over and over again. The Bore rider by design fits a boolit fully .010" smaller than the throats into the chamber where in my opinion, will open groups accordingly.

At Ruger Only pressures, only the hardest of cast boolits will maintain the integrity of the bore rider design when fired, and the hard cast is not the best choice for hunting, a good handgun hunting boolit for thin skinned game would be fairly soft, 50/50 alloy or close, and likely to obturate to groove diameter anyway, over a full house of H110. So the bore rider design is no longer a bore rider when it gets into the barrel, it slugs up into a full wadcutter. Might as well fill the throats at this point and abandon the lesser diameter nose section.

Just my gut instincts, as I have no experience shooting a boolit sized .010" below throat diameter.

The mold for the LBT 250gr Ogival Wad Cutter is a standard Veral mold you could get it from Veral or MBW I think.

Edit: One question.. Will a known .452" push through your cylinder throats from the front?

[DanWalker]

YES! That would be great! I'd love to try some. I'd gladly trade you COWW lead ingots for some of them. Yes, a .452 will push though my cylinder throats from the front. I didn't know Veral was selling molds again.

[megasupermagnum]

Here's an idea for guys looking for a "bore rider". I needed a bullet to get as much lead outside the case as possible, and came up with the following. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-148C-D.png
This is not a 45 bullet, but the principle is the same. The full front driving band (don't skimp here) is still short enough to have zero chambering issues even when dirty, which a .220" long full diameter band may have. Make the bore riding section .001" or .002" under what you size to. Recovered bullets show that they slug up to fit the throats anyway, but this method has worked out very well for me. Even cast of 20-1, those bullets are incredibly accurate. A bore riding nose just makes nose slump inaccurate.

[Jtarm]

I used to have an LBR .44 OWC mood and it was wicked. I still have some of the boolits from it.

Soon as Doug finishes with my uber-tight 625 PC, I’ll try some of the MTBW boolits, and, if they’ll shoot, get the mold from Veral.

[boatswainsmate]

I started playing with these bullets recently. (246 Grains in my alloy) I haven't shot any out to 50 yards. It's Lyman's 454309. It's been accurate so far. This company still makes them. http://www.westernbullet.com/45pica.html
https://i.ibb.co/hMw5zSP/DSCN4447.jpg (https://ibb.co/1njVWkD)

[DanWalker]

Nice looking bullets. I'm after as wide a meplat as I can get to stabilize. I've seen firsthand what a difference even a small increase in meplat diameter can have on the killing effect of a cast bullet. That's my primary goal. To maximize the effectiveness of my hunting loads.

[boatswainsmate]

Nice looking bullets. I'm after as wide a meplat as I can get to stabilize. I've seen firsthand what a difference even a small increase in meplat diameter can have on the killing effect of a cast bullet. That's my primary goal. To maximize the effectiveness of my hunting loads.
I make these also but I haven't had a chance to make any experimental loads yet. They weigh 345 grains. LBT 451 340 WLN
https://i.ibb.co/jV9KvP8/DSCN4471.jpg (https://ibb.co/cbK5cSy)

[Outpost75]

Group fired from iron-sighted H&R .45 Colt Handi-rifle here is only 25 yards, but the LBT bullets somebody sent me show promise.

242314

[DougGuy]

Group fired from iron-sighted H&R .45 Colt Handi-rifle here is only 25 yards, but the LBT bullets somebody sent me show promise.

242314

Sent Dan some of the same OWC to try out! That's a dang nice group if you ask me, and how clean the edges of the holes are? This would work good on thin skin game as well.

BTW.. DanWalker has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

[DanWalker]

I've got the bullets you sent me all sized and lubed and loaded. Will hopefully get to shoot them this weekend once the wind dies down.