Lee Classic Turret vs. ABLP vs. LNL

[Boolseye]

Hi folks,
I have used an RCBS turret and a Lee single stage as my set-up since I started, and lately I’ve wanted to either add another turret or go toward a progressive. I have the opportunity to pick up a used LNL (fully decked out) for a good price, although I have to admit I’m leaning toward the Lee turret. I shoot 4-7000 rds per year and about 20 different calibers. Granted, most of my reloading centers on only 8-10 calibers, with .45, 9mm and .40/10mm being the top 3. The turret seems like the most versatile and with the best price point. Any input welcome.
-BE


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jmorris]

A turret requires one pull of the handle per die for each loaded round, add to that however you prime and charge powder.

A progressive, once full, gives you a loaded round with every pull of the handle and priming and powder charging are part of that process.

Nothing wrong with using a single stage or a single stage with the dies all setup in a turret, it’s just going to be more work and take longer than a progressive, it will also cost less because the machine is much less complicated and the shell holder is less machine work than a shell plate.

7000 rounds a year divided by 20 calibers is 350 rounds a year of each or 29 rounds a month, that’s not much reason to own a progressive.

Even if you said 7000/year of 10 calibers, that’s still less than 60 rounds a month. Hard to justify the extra costs of caliber conversions with such small volume.

Cut those numbers to 4000/year and the math gets even worse, for a progressive.

[Boolseye]

I probably wasn’t that clear. I do load for a lot of calibers, but the vast majority of my shooting is in 3-4 pistols cartridges. I shoot probably (on average) 1-200 rds/wk of combined 9mm, .45 and, to a lesser extent, .40 and 10mm. I agree, I’m probably on the ragged edge of justifying a progressive. Thus, the lee turret, which I can switch out $10 turrets for with ease. I do think it probably makes more sense.

[jmorris]

Not sure about your math...I shoot on average 100-200 rds. per week, much of it in 2-3 calibers.

The OP is where I got the numbers from. 7000 rounds a year would be 583 rounds a month, divided by 20 different calibers would be 29 rounds of each per month. I wouldn’t want to convert a progressive for 100 rounds even less incentive if there is less than that to load. You’ll be spending more time changing stuff than actually loading. Cut the calibers you use in half, still only makes things 50% better.

As your numbers shift the math changes though. 200 rounds a week gets us up to 10,400 rounds a year, divide that by 2 calibers and that’s 5200 of each/yr or 433 rounds a month but that’s not the same picture your original post painted.


I shoot 4-7000 rds per year and about 20 different calibers. Granted, most of my reloading centers on only 8-10 calibers...

Some presses are great for swapping between calibers, just not very good for loading large quantities with little work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3AGbx5YVZk

On a progressive to go from say 9mm to 45 ACP. You will have to change the shell plate, priming system, all of the dies, change or readjust the powder measure, you said “fully decked out” so that would include case and bullet feeders, stuff that once you get them working on an LNL you would really rather not mess with them, lots of folks also at least own two progressives so they don’t have to mess with changing between large and small priming systems.

Every second you have zero production is a second that a single stage or turret will be catching up to your load rate because they are simpler devices.

Take the end of that video above and load 20 rounds of each on that co-ax, then try the same thing on any progressive. You will be shooting if you were using the single stage and still fiddling with setup if you were using the progressive.

You might find that having a progressive for the 1 or 2 things you shoot the most makes sense but you will still want to keep “old faithful” for the calibers you rarely shoot much of.

[Boolseye]

Yes, apologies, and thanks for stepping in to the breech.
It was my figures that were off, not yours. Also, your conclusion is very likely the right one. What I failed to mention was that I do shoot a pretty fair amount of pistol in 3-4 calibers that MAY justify a progressive. My initial estimates were very much that, off-the-cuff estimates. I shoot quite a bit, as anyone in my family can attest. What I do have it in my shooting is a lot of variety, I’m not a 15,000 round per year, one or two caliber shooter by any means. I like to mix it up, and for that the classic turret seems like it may just fit the bill.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Three44s]

I went with a LNL and chose it because of it’s flexibility in doing rifle rounds.

I have not used it much but own it for political insurance as much as anything. It does work and a friend has ran it more than I have. Then he ran out and bought his own but is struggling to have a place for it.

I will say that the LNL is somewhat fidgety as you get them broken in and you get accustomed to it.

My best advice is to go run your friend’s machine before you buy it to see if it is your cup of tea. Then report back here about your results so we can further explain the ins and outs of it.

Most of my issues were getting fine machining marks polished down on shell plates and running too bulky a powder in a small pistol case. The powder wants to slurp out and find it’s way down under the shell plate and congregate under the priming slide. Also you have to chose your rifle powders wisely as a small stick powder likes to bridge in the drop area of the measure. The LNL I have runs better at a moderate steady speed that trying out for the “Bonneville Salt Flats” but if I ran it more that could change as it gets broken in more.

The Lee classic turret is a fine machine, I have one but I question since you have an RCBS turret Press, what do you expect the Lee to produce that your current one is not already?

Best regards

Three44s

[Boolseye]

Thank you all.

Regarding the Lee Turret as well as the RCBS-having two medium-high output stations appeals to me. Also, the extremely inexpensive turret heads (have you seen the price of RCBS extras?) seems very versatile and useful to me.

Also curious to see more reports on the New Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro (which already has its own acronym, not bad for being out less than a year).
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JBinMN]

Are you trying to reduce the time spent producing rounds, and/or do you think you will shoot even more than you do now, if you were able to produce more rounds than you are producing right now with your current setups?

I am not asking those questions to get an answer, but for you to consider.

I am going to offer, that not counting the prep work, or any of the other things one might do to prepare for loading rounds, I run approx. 75-100 rounds an hour on a Lee Classic Turret using 4 stages(seating & crimping separate), without any added features to it. (De-priming & priming are usually done on the press for most calibers)That time includes weighing "every" throw of powder on a beam scale, trickling powder when necessary, and checking every round for OAL with a calipers, then checked in a gauge before it goes into the ammo box. ( Some might say I am "anal" with that much QC, but I have my own requirements for quality, and since it is "my" system, who should care anyway. ;) )

There are others here who say they can run 150+ an hour with their setups with powder throw on the press & other modifications to speed up their system, so I would reckon that if you are looking for output like that, then you might consider a Lee Classic Turret for your needs. ( I have not run a Lee Value turret, so I do not know if it is the same other than the type of handle as compared to the Lee Classic Turret.)

If you are looking to increase your production output significantly more than what I mentioned above, IMO, you should begin to consider the progressives & their setups & systems.

For "me", I just don't shoot enough to warrant a progressive right now & importantly for some like me, I also do not see that I would shoot more, if I could produce more. So a progressive is not what I would look for. That is why I asked the rhetorical question(s) in the first part of the post for you to consider that as well. Perhaps you are in the same situation & perhaps not. Those are some things to consider though.
:)

While I do have more than a few other turrets & single stage presses to use, I do find myself using the LCT more than the others, as I shoot more pistol calibers than rifle calibers & that might be something for you to consider also. Just what you need for the type of calibers you shoot. I see you mention some pistol rounds, so that might be something that you can add into the figuring out what you might want as well.
:)

Well, that is "my take" on what you might do.
:)

G'Luck! whatever you decide.
:)

[Boolseye]

I very much appreciate it-your rhetorical question elicits a prompt reply in me, which is the same answer that you found.

My loading speed is ahead of my shooting speed as it stands, and I do not see that changing in the near future.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[tazman]

I shoot roughly 250 rounds per week of 38 special, 9mm, 40S&W, or 45ACP. I load on a Lee Classic Cast turret press.
I use on press priming and on press powder measure(Lee Pro Auto Disk) and have results that satisfies my needs. I get 150 rounds per hour without any hurrying when loading handgun calibers. Two hours work and I have a week's worth of shooting ready to go.
I just can't justify the expense and extra equipment of a good progressive since I get sufficient output from my Lee press. I simply do not shoot enough.
I do all my rifle cartridges on the turret(223, 243, 308, 30-06). When loading rifle, I have it set up as a single stage press.
As you know, changing calibers on the Lee is a matter of a couple of minutes once you have the individual turrets set up. Very easy to do.
I don't shoot enough of any one cartridge to justify having a progressive set up for a single cartridge plus the changes being more difficult and time consuming.
I have loaded many thousands of cartridges on my press without any issues in my guns.
I am retired, so I have the time to spend in the loading room.

[Boolseye]

Thank you. Another member with a similar output.
Since we're all CB shooters here, let me get to the expander question.
Taz, JB, what are you guys doing for your expander set-up when loading for cast?
We all know that the included expander plugs are often insufficient for our larger-diameter cast slugs.
My plan is to get another Lyman multi-charge expander die (I already have one), or use my NOE plugs when necessary. I don't use stock Lee expander plugs for anything, since I load almost exclusively cast.
The Lyman can take a powder measure too, not sure which ones fit beyond the Redding which I use.

[tazman]

I am using Lee dies and using the expander that comes with them. I haven't had any issues with getting boolit bases swaged smaller but I water quench my boolits from the mold and get a bit more hardness than some use.
I use range scrap with one pound of Linotype added to a 20lb pot. I don't have a hardness tester but have had people test some for me. They claim I am getting 15-18 BHN. I can't scratch the boolits with my fingernail so they may be right.
Since you are going to get a different expander, I doubt my experience will have much value for you.

[onelight]

I have both the LCT and the ABLP I have not used the Hornady but a couple of my friends have them and they look like a really nice press and the owners are happy. All that said I don’t find progressive presses enjoyable to load on but they do crank out the ammo fast but require paying attention to four or more stations at a time.
The LCT to me is enjoyable in the process like a single stage without handling the case but once in once out. With turrets set up with your dies a caliber change is seconds with all dies adjusted and running it also uses standard shell holders , it is very clean for spent primer mess and another bonus is with powders like red dot the rotation settles the charge and it meters better than any other system I have used (I still weigh any charges approaching max) and the turrets are cheaper than the bushings for the ABLP or the Hornady . I also like the lee saftey prime it has a learning curve but is as good or better than any other on press priming I have used , and one of the reasons I also have the ABLP , but you need to follow the Lee die adjustment directions . All three presses will load most rifle cases. I have also had a pro1000 and a Loadmaster both are faster but ABLP fits the way I load better but the LCT is my favorite all around press . If I was not so cheap :p a Dillon 550 would be sweet but would be well over $1000. To set up for the calibers I would want to use it on.
If this ain’t long enough already , i normally am a slow and steady loading kinda guy but I timed the last 50 rounds of 45 colt in a batch on the LCT took 13 min and change moving along quickly.

[Boolseye]

I am using Lee dies and using the expander that comes with them. I haven't had any issues with getting boolit bases swaged smaller but I water quench my boolits from the mold and get a bit more hardness than some use.
I use range scrap with one pound of Linotype added to a 20lb pot. I don't have a hardness tester but have had people test some for me. They claim I am getting 15-18 BHN. I can't scratch the boolits with my fingernail so they may be right.
Since you are going to get a different expander, I doubt my experience will have much value for you.

That’s definitely valuable, thank you. I think, as you say, in most cases the stock expanders are sufficient.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Boolseye]

Thanks onelight, I had noticed your posts on the new ABLP and hoped you would weigh in. It seems as though everyone likes that classic turret. Bottom line, I fall into the category of a serious but laid-back shooter and reloader, and you guys speak my language.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[daloper]

I load with the Lee Classic. I load for eight different calibers so I like how easy it is to change form one to the other. Now I am in the process of setting up the different drums for the Lee Auto drum powder measure to speed up the change over a bit more. I also have a Lee Load Master that my uncle gave me to load 38 special, but I find myself always using the turrent. I enjoy the quite down in the loading room.

[onelight]

One thing I might mention I have dies from Hornady Lyman Rcbs Redding and Lee on the LCT I added the Lee powder through dies for all the pistol sets and like tazman I have not had a problem with boolit fit and leading from that cause (I have a Ruger 45 colt with a restriction at the frame ) but some of my dies are old the newer dies seem to have more chamfer at the mouth and cycle smoother on progressives. All work fine on the LCT

[jmorris]

Yes, apologies, and thanks for stepping in to the breech.
It was my figures that were off, not yours. Also, your conclusion is very likely the right one. What I failed to mention was that I do shoot a pretty fair amount of pistol in 3-4 calibers that MAY justify a progressive. My initial estimates were very much that, off-the-cuff estimates.

No problem, sometimes the hardest part isn’t finding the answer to the question but what the problem is, if there is even a problem.

If your loading 20 calibers but only 3-4 would be a consideration for a progressive, you can just keep your existing processes for most all your other calibers.

Progressives are not only less work but higher output as well. Even the most basic progressives fed by hand can load 100 rounds in 10 minutes once they are setup and ready to go. With reliable collated bullet and case feeders, you can knock that down to 4 minutes/100 and it’s even less work than the 10 min/100 on the manual feed machine.

If you are reloading is “relaxing” guy and you already are happy whit what you’ve got, it would be a waste of money to get a progressive. If it’s a “necessary evil” to get what you want, a progressive will either make your load sessions shorter, less work or your going to start shooting more.

It’s very important to understand there is no right answer. I have more than a half dozen progressives for stuff I load a lot of but still use turrets and single stages when they are the better tool for the job. None are best at everything.

[MT Chambers]

If you need more speed and not the speedy die changes that the Co-ax offers then you need a Dillon period, end of story, stick a fork in it.

[onelight]

On the ABLP I have a case feeder at a casual pace I’m probably 3 to 400 per hr I would say it is 50 to 100% faster than the LCT but I do enjoy the simpler function off the LCT I like both.
On the ABLP it would use the same shell holder for 9 , 40 , 10mm and another for 45 it comes with one set of die bushings (4) so you would need 2 or 3 more sets. It does work well without the case feeder and the feeder sometimes takes a little time to get it running smooth with a case change. It seems to work better for me with 40 & 45 but it is not expensive and can be added at any time.

[JBinMN]

Thank you. Another member with a similar output.
Since we're all CB shooters here, let me get to the expander question.
Taz, JB, what are you guys doing for your expander set-up when loading for cast?
We all know that the included expander plugs are often insufficient for our larger-diameter cast slugs.
My plan is to get another Lyman multi-charge expander die (I already have one), or use my NOE plugs when necessary. I don't use stock Lee expander plugs for anything, since I load almost exclusively cast.
The Lyman can take a powder measure too, not sure which ones fit beyond the Redding which I use.

I use NOE expander plugs in Lee Univ. Exp. dies for most of my pistol calibers. On occasion I would have a boolit swaged down & decided that it would be easier for me to just get the dies & plugs & not have to worry about it any longer no matter what alloy I decide to use.

Each of us has different reasons for what we do & no one is really right or wrong, IMO. We all just have to find what works for each of us & then be happy with our results once we figure out what we like best.
:)

Once again, G'Luck! whatever ya decide to do.
:)

[kmw1954]

If you are reloading is “relaxing” guy and you already are happy whit what you’ve got, it would be a waste of money to get a progressive. If it’s a “necessary evil” to get what you want, a progressive will either make your load sessions shorter, less work or your going to start shooting more..

So true! I don't shoot a lot but I do have 2 progressive presses. I enjoy the "process" of loading. As a retired person not only does it save me a little money but it gives me something to do which I like doing but it also keeps the mind and body active. I am not loading any more volume but I have reduced my work. Though that still doesn't mean I have increased my speed. I can take my time and weigh check charges and also check OAL as they come off the press. I also don't use a powder cop or lock out die as I make sure I look into each case before a bullet goes into place. Just because the speed is available doesn't mean one has to use it that fast.

[Livin_cincy]

I like the Lee Classic Cast Turret because it is simple, precise enough for my handgun needs, and I never worry about squibs. I have added a case Kicker from InLine Fabrication. I watched several YouTube's and found 4-5 handgun cartridges per minute common. This makes for 250 per hour as a realistic count. Which is about 1/2 of a slow progressive press.

As noted, caliber change are inexpensive and permit a turret for each one you have.

Richard Lee recommended a progressive for a caliber you shoot at more than 500 per week. So keep that in mind.

The ABLP is a game changer. It has the simplicity of a turret. Caliber changes are considerably more expensive with the shell plates & bushings. For the cost you get 4-500 cartridges per hour. So it is just shy of a Progressive press under the Richard Lee Rule of Thumb.

[Boolseye]

I like the look of that case kicker. With the lower cost of caliber changes I think we're still talking about a great deal.
Also those bins and stuff are included, and shipping for 60 clams. Pretty great.

While we're on it...is there anything to the occasional complaint you see of the indexing feature not lining up, or failing entirely? I have not read any other negatives of the LCT and don't know whether that's even a thing.

I am basically there with the LCT, I just want to cover all my bases.

[1bluehorse]

My opinion is about as valuable as any so here it is. I'm down to two progressive presses these days. I load almost all handgun rounds on one or the other if loading 10 rounds or 500 unless it's just for "testing" something different. That would just be a few to start and I would do that on a single stage. (I have two of those also) It's no more difficult to load 10 or 20 rounds on a progressive press than it is using a turret, it's just faster. I've owned several turret presses, the last two were the Lee Classic Turret model. They were o.k., I sold them both. There is a bit of an "acquaintance" period with a progressive press but once there you'll understand what I mean about using one for small(er) amounts. I do enjoy reloading, in fact more than shooting, that's why like many here I have WAY MORE ammo stored in boxes than I'll probably ever shoot by myself. Welllllll, maybe. But as fast I shoot them I reload them so the stack never really seems to get smaller...when I decide I want to become "one" with my ammunition I load rifle stuff. All done on a single stage, with all the brass prep, turn necks, flash holes, uniform primer pockets, case comparators, bullet comparators, weighing, measuring, comp mics, concentricity gauges, you name it, anything I can think of or read about. It gets crazy but I enjoy it. Does it make a difference in my shooting accuracy? naw, probably not, because unlike most here, I'm just not a very good shot, but, I don't own a 6.5 anything, if I did I'm sure I would do much better.....[smilie=l: I like all reloading presses, I just think they're cool stuff, I just prefer a progressive cuz they're "cooler" than the others..... [smilie=2:

[onelight]

These are the parts I hear most of people breaking on the LCT I have not needed to replace any on mine but my shooting buddie has replaced this little .50 cent square a couple of times if you try to turn the turret by hand and it does not turn to change turrets raise the ram to the top and you won’t break it . The other piece holds the little square don’t strip the screw :p order a couple of the little squares . I think Titan and midsouth both stock them. If you order with the press you save shipping.
https://leeprecision.com/square-ratchet.html
https://leeprecision.com/auto-index-clamp.html

[tazman]

I like the look of that case kicker. With the lower cost of caliber changes I think we're still talking about a great deal.
Also those bins and stuff are included, and shipping for 60 clams. Pretty great.

While we're on it...is there anything to the occasional complaint you see of the indexing feature not lining up, or failing entirely? I have not read any other negatives of the LCT and don't know whether that's even a thing.

I am basically there with the LCT, I just want to cover all my bases.

In my experience the indexing on the LCCT is easily adjusted and doesn't move after being set unless the turret is jammed somehow when it is being rotated by the rod. I did that once by improperly adjusting the bracket for the safety prime. Just make sure nothing is rubbing the turret or die lock rings when the turret is moving. Also, lubricate the turret occasionally to ensure smooth and easy indexing. Adjusting the indexing is done with a crescent wrench and the turret with the turret being held in your hand. No special tools are required.
The turret has an indexing/detent ball that is spring loaded for a solid indicator when alignment is correct.
Get a couple of extra of the indexing squares. You don't need them often and they are easy to change. When they get worn out, the turret doesn't index correctly or at all. It can be very annoying.
They are made of plastic and last longer than you would think they should as long as you don't oil them enough to soften them(don't ask how I know that). My last one lasted thousands of rounds. The current one has at least 10,000 rounds on it.
I used to recommend that you get a couple of extra return springs for the safety prime seating mechanism, but the new ones have an improved spring that doesn't have the issues of weakening that the old version does. It turns out the new spring will fit the older safety prime mechanism and works well.
The indexing clamp can strip out by over tightening during a ratchet square change but the easy fix is to get a longer bolt and a nut for the end that tightens against the side where the threads come out. You will never have trouble with it again. I did that just on general principles to prevent having it interrupt a casting session.
I haven't used the case kicker, but it sounds like a good idea.

[Boolseye]

Appreciate it guys. I figured it wasn’t a big deal. My experience with Lee stuff is that it tends to work, whatever else you may think of it.

Thinking I’ll give myself a chance to check out that LNL before I make a buy. Buddy who owns it went to FL, so it’ll be a couple weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jmorris]

I have gotten most of Lee’s products to work with great to satisfactory results, the only *** I have found so far was their bullet feeder.

If I had even the slightest need for another press, I’d get one of these, just because they are so cheap and I haven’t played with one.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019986419/lee-auto-breech-lock-pro-progressive-press

Even had it in the cart once but it was a bit less tempting once I added the stuff I though I might want.

Too bad they don’t sell a complete version, with primer, powder, etc. vs being an à la carte deal.

[Boolseye]

Yeah. I’m thinking the same thing (and I have had it in many carts ;-))
I may just buy it because it exists. It’s a no-lose proposition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jmorris]

If you can get a good deal on the LNL, that would be a better choice, having owned a couple LNL’s and a Loadmaster, Hornady has a better priming system.

Also for whatever reason Lee doesn’t make a shell plate the right size for 9mm, they use the same one (BL Pro 19) they use for 40 s&w, despite the fact they are .030” different in diameter. Might seem like a good idea when you’re buying stuff because you can use the same one for both but when you have issues priming because the case isn’t centered, it quickly becomes obvious that it’s a bad idea.

On the Loadmaster you can fix it with an extra die in #2 to center the case but it primes on the handle down/ram up stroke, the BLP does it on the ram down/handle up stroke, so that’s no an option.

Using the Hornady you would have to buy a #8 for 9mm and a #10 for 40 but you don’t have the frustration of priming issues.

[Boolseye]

Gotcha. Yeah, that .40/9mm shellplate DID seem like a nice two in one...but of course the 9 will be a little sloppier.
Thanks. I am thinking that I don’t load enough to bother with the LNL, which, again, brings us back to the LCT. Choices choices. Step AWAY from the reloading press ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kmw1954]

Boolseye since you state you already have an RCBS turret press and a Lee single stage press to me the question would come down to the Hornady or the ABLP press as I doubt you will be relieving yourself of the RCBS press.

So between those two presses the thoughts and considerations would be; how cheap can the Hornady press be gotten for. Little savings or substantial saving? What is the volume you are looking to do? If high volume then the Hornady w/o question. Moderate volume then it becomes a toss up. Again if the price is so right on the Hornady. If moderate to lower volume then to me it would be the ABLP. It's inexpensive, simple to use and at least twice as fast as any turret with the ease of use of a turret.. Also the Lee case feeder can be added for a very reasonable cost.

I do have a Lee 3 hole turret, Lee Pro1000 and now a Lee ABLP. I do also use all three for different applications and can load 380, 9mm, 40cal, 38/357 and 45acp on all three. I have the shell plates for both the Pro1000 and the ABLP. I have also loaded 9mm on both the Pro1000 and the ABLP using the #19 shell plate and I haven't experienced any if the problems associated with that plate. And Yes I also prime on all my presses and they have been quite reliable and provide good feedback feel while priming.. If I feel the slightest problem I stop to investigate. As long as I do my part the press will do it's part.

[Boolseye]

Many thanks. I'm going to read through all of your suggestions again and consider.
I'll report back when I make a decisive move.
-BE

[jmorris]

how cheap can the Hornady press be gotten for.

That’s a very important question.

If it’s a smoking deal, you can get it and if you don’t like it get rid of it and buy a couple cheaper presses.

[Boolseye]

[emoji106] yup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Boolseye]

My opinion is about as valuable as any so here it is. I'm down to two progressive presses these days. I load almost all handgun rounds on one or the other if loading 10 rounds or 500 unless it's just for "testing" something different. That would just be a few to start and I would do that on a single stage. (I have two of those also) It's no more difficult to load 10 or 20 rounds on a progressive press than it is using a turret, it's just faster. I've owned several turret presses, the last two were the Lee Classic Turret model. They were o.k., I sold them both. There is a bit of an "acquaintance" period with a progressive press but once there you'll understand what I mean about using one for small(er) amounts. I do enjoy reloading, in fact more than shooting, that's why like many here I have WAY MORE ammo stored in boxes than I'll probably ever shoot by myself. Welllllll, maybe. But as fast I shoot them I reload them so the stack never really seems to get smaller...when I decide I want to become "one" with my ammunition I load rifle stuff. All done on a single stage, with all the brass prep, turn necks, flash holes, uniform primer pockets, case comparators, bullet comparators, weighing, measuring, comp mics, concentricity gauges, you name it, anything I can think of or read about. It gets crazy but I enjoy it. Does it make a difference in my shooting accuracy? naw, probably not, because unlike most here, I'm just not a very good shot, but, I don't own a 6.5 anything, if I did I'm sure I would do much better.....[smilie=l: I like all reloading presses, I just think they're cool stuff, I just prefer a progressive cuz they're "cooler" than the others..... [smilie=2:

If I may ask, what model progressives do you use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Boolseye]

One more question re. ABLP: can it be used more as a single stage/ turret if desired? I like to have that option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jmorris]

You can use any progressive as a single stage, just load one case at a time in it, when it falls out, load another.

[Moleman-]

I have had both 3 and 4 hole lee turret presses , early loadmaster, ABLP, Lyman all american turret, lyman Tmag, Older hornady progressive Projector press and have used a RCBS 4x4 for a while. I tried the Lee ABLP over the fall and did not like the primer feed system. They didn't bother to figure out a way to hands off automatically dispense a primer and ended up putting a priming system on it that I wouldn't even bother with on a single stage press. The ram head also seemed tippy because of the small diameter ram v/s the much larger size of the ram head. Ended up giving it to my uncle who wanted to load a few hundred 9mm, 44 and 45 rounds a month faster than he could on his single stage. I had no real issues with either the 3 or 4 hole turret presses other than they're not as fast as a progressive (still have a 3 hole out in the garage on a shelf for one of my kids). Really liked the loadmaster and I could load more rounds per hour on it v/s the Hornady set up similarly. The early loadmasters ram head would slip out of time if used much which they corrected 25 years ago at least. But that's what ended my use of the loadmaster. The older hornady progressives are very similar to the current ones without as much stuff bolted to them. I'm still using the hornady progressive I bought around 1992 along with 10 shell plates. Gone through a couple primer arm springs (simple torsion spring) one case retention spring and have adjusted the indexing pawls 2-3 times now. I'd get a new version but I hate the LNL system and don't want to constantly be taking them on/off when swapping between presses. If you've got a chance to get a used LNL at a good price I'd go that route over another turret and use it to load your high volume cartridges.

[fabricator21]

I have both. Converting rhe progressive. For low volume is a pain. The lee turret is quick and painless .

[onelight]

One more question re. ABLP: can it be used more as a single stage/ turret if desired? I like to have that option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can remove the index rod and you then manually rotate the the shell plate.
All the the progressives I have used all the Lees a Dillon 550 and the Hornady get a bit of rocking in the shell plate so if you are not using all four stations you may have a slightly different OAL and crimp when setting up my dies I run 1 round through all four stations and set the dies then fine tune as move to full progressive loading after the dies are locked to the bushings they maintain adjustment if removed and replaced. The lee seating dies do not use a lock nut so are really easy to fine tune same on the factory crimp dies but there are some applications where they may not be best for your purpose

[Blindshooter]

I'll take the time to set up a progressive most times as I have some joint issues and the fewer times I pull the handle the better. Roller handles and larger ball (8 ball) help some as well. That said I still have a single stage and what amounts to a turret in a PW Metalmatic 2. The LnL works well after some tweaking and I still have a older Projector that works like a champ still. My wife surprised me several years ago with a new D1050, I use it mostly for .45acp and it is by far the easiest on my bones. I don't think you can have too many presses/options.

[GWS]

I'll take the time to set up a progressive most times as I have some joint issues and the fewer times I pull the handle the better.....


There's another man I can agree with. After loading on a R. C. for 40 years by night and wrestling dimension lumber and pouring cement by day, I finally got to the point where I went looking for something easier on my body. First looked at turrets.....not the answer for my needs.....strokes per cartridge is no different from a single, as jmorris pointed out.

I had really nearly stopped reloading then heaven sent me a 5 station progressive.......my Christmas consolation after the Obama election in 2008 ;). My body (and my hobby) has thanked me for it! As progressives went at the time, I looked for and found the easiest one to set up and change calibers for ...... the Pro 2K with a bullet feeder. Too bad its gone.....still one of the best IMO for those changing calibers every week.

On a budget today, I'd buy Lees new toy the ABLP......the only fly in the ointment is the primer system....be patient with Lee....and in the mean time get an RCBS bench primer. So fine and the strokes are painless.

[Walks]

L-N-L




I HATE auto-correct

[onelight]

You may have seen this butt here is a review video showing the operation of the ABLP with the basic add ons needed to work as designed. At the end he loads on it.
https://thereloadersnetwork.com/2019/02/16/lee-breech-lock-pro-press-a-working-review/

[Boolseye]

Hey guys. I pulled the trigger on a Lee Classic Turret. I will let you know how she flies for me. When I consider my slow, methodical shooting style and # of calibers it seemed like the logical choice. I will still be checking out the LNL when my friend returns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Three44s]

“...... a slow, methodical style ......”,

I think you have made a great choice then!

I still use my single stage presses more than the others because I also am “slow and methodical” most of the time. I own three turrets, one of which is a Lee Classic and the progressive LNL and like all of them for different reasons.

Best regards

Three44s

[kmw1954]

Hey guys. I pulled the trigger on a Lee Classic Turret. I will let you know how she flies for me. When I consider my slow, methodical shooting style and # of calibers it seemed like the logical choice. I will still be checking out the LNL when my friend returns.

Good for you it should serve you well and then if the opportunity presents the LNL for a can't pass it up price then go for it!
I have these; RCBS JR3, Lee 3 hole turret, Lee Pro1000 and the Lee ABLP. They all serve a useful purpose.

[onelight]

I think LCT is Lee’s best designed product particularly for a guy that loads. Lots of different calibers. Enjoy

[Dieselhorses]

I was just doing a search to find out about the ABLP and ran across this thread, every question answered, only thing is you have to disable the auto feature to load .308 and more,,,,,grrrr. Already many Lee components and accessories (case feeders, bullet feeder etc.) I got in a lot a few years back including 2 progressives for 200.00 so maybe just for pistol rounds. Have the LCTP which I'm on the most anyway. Kudos on your buy Boolseye!

[kmw1954]

Dieselhorses if you are looking to load large bottleneck cases the ABLP most likely isn't the best choice, but if you want to load a bunch of pistol calibers and in a hurry, it will do that. Because of the Safety Prime it is not as fast as the Pro1000 but is pretty close.

[Dieselhorses]

Dieselhorses if you are looking to load large bottleneck cases the ABLP most likely isn't the best choice, but if you want to load a bunch of pistol calibers and in a hurry, it will do that. Because of the Safety Prime it is not as fast as the Pro1000 but is pretty close.

I agree. I wonder what Lee press gives you the highest clearance?

[kmw1954]

I agree. I wonder what Lee press gives you the highest clearance?

As for a progressive press my guess would be the LoadMaster and the Classic Cast Turret..

[Boolseye]

Lee claims you can load a 460 Weatherby Mag. in the Classic Turret.

[onelight]

I agree. I wonder what Lee press gives you the highest clearance?
Something to look at with the progressives is available shell plates to make sure they are offered for what you have in mind.
I use the LCT or a single stage for rifle larger than. 223

[Boolseye]

Heading down to Wally World to pick up the LCT, best price I could find. Extra turrets and priming set-up coming from Midway. The RCBS is slow and cumbersome but it has six stations and is built like a tank. My third press is the cheapest Lee single stage they make (pre-breech lock) which I use for sizing, small batch etc.. I suspect the LCT will become my go-to for most of my loading.

[Bama]

Lee torrent is my go to press, andI load a little more than your. Amount in just 1 of 15 + calibers. Torrents are cheap. I threaded 308 cases and screwed them to a board which is a perfect torrent holder for the ones not in use. The only draw back was spent primers would sometimes. Bounce out of place ne ar top of ram. Found a simple fix with some sheet copper. If you go to torrent press route, let me know. And I can show you what I did. I liked the lee so much I got a used second one to make another load area whe wife started reloading. Forgot to add, I remove the auto rotate feature because I load in batches and like to do one action at a time, for me it allows me to tell if any thing changes from c are to case much easier.

[JeepHammer]

What EVERYONE forgets...
The set up time, the tear down & cleanup time factors.

Then there is fine tuning the PROCESS of reloading.

--------

Set up & tear down (I don't leave dirty dies to rust in the press, and I learned that the hard way) of a tool head ('Turret') press is stupid fast since the tool head pops out and the case holder pops out, gets shot with cleaner, gets hosed with rust protection, and gets put back in the rack.
Set up is shoot some lube in the dies, find the powder, lay out primers, set the bullets in a handy spot and you are off to the races.

With an indexing progressive, just switching primer insert punches can take half an hour...
And all that has to be cleaned afterwards.
With a 'Turret' (tool head) you simply sweep up and lubricate the ram on the press.

---------

With the process,
There are a BUNCH of small ways to speed things up.
If you use small batch cleaning, punch the primers out with a universal decapping tool before you clean.
This saves you cleaning primer pockets.

I used to set up a cheap 'C' press for punching primers at one end of the table, then throw the brass in the cleaner, then they moved down the bench for resize, priming, propellant, etc.
A more or less straight line...
I worked to economize movement in the process, from making loading blocks that fit under the powder thrower better, to primer trays that didn't make me use tweezers, to a hand primer that was faster than the press, etc.
Smooth out the processing saves a bunch of time & effort.

When I went self indexing progressive I had to start over and refine the process again, primers get punched during resizing, getting the powder out of the bin in the tool head when I'm done, changing case plates & priming assembly, it all changes.
When you go that route, have CUBIC DOLLARS for tool heads set up with dies & powder measures.
Trying to switch dies from one tool head to another and then set them up takes a bunch of time, so most of us set up a tool head, powder thrower, and caliber change kit for each caliber, and that isn't cheap!

It takes a LOT of volume to justify something like a Lock-N-Load or a Dillon.
They aren't cheap, they aren't 'Easy', and they require a LOT more maintenance to keep running smoothly.
Single or tool head, it's pretty much sweep off, clean/oil the ram... DONE!
With an auto indexing progressive, it's tear down case plate and clean crud/propellant, tear down primer assembly to clean and put back together, etc.

Along with what Mr. Morris wrote, it takes quite a bit of volume to justify a self indexing progressive,
And if you want one that WORKS consistently it's not going to be cheap.

[kmw1954]

With an indexing progressive, just switching primer insert punches can take half an hour...

When you go that route, have CUBIC DOLLARS for tool heads set up with dies & powder measures.
Trying to switch dies from one tool head to another and then set them up takes a bunch of time, so most of us set up a tool head, powder thrower, and caliber change kit for each caliber, and that isn't cheap!

It takes a LOT of volume to justify something like a Lock-N-Load or a Dillon.

They aren't cheap, they aren't 'Easy', and they require a LOT more maintenance to keep running smoothly.
Single or tool head, it's pretty much sweep off, clean/oil the ram... DONE!
With an auto indexing progressive, it's tear down case plate and clean crud/propellant, tear down primer assembly to clean and put back together, etc.

Along with what Mr. Morris wrote, it takes quite a bit of volume to justify a self indexing progressive,
And if you want one that WORKS consistently it's not going to be cheap.

The one thing I agree with you on has been highlighted.

Not all progressives are the same of course. I have 2, a Lee Pro1000 and a Lee ABLP. I can do a complete caliber change including primer size in less than 10 minutes on either press.

CUBIC DOLLARS for tool heads, dies and powder measures? If loading more than one caliber the only added expense over a single stage is added turrets or bushings and then shell plates. Dies are going to be needed anyways no matter which press type so that is a wash. I have 2 different powder measures, a Lee Auto Disk and a Lee Auto Drum. With the swivels on the measures it again is only a matter of minutes to remove or replace a measure. I don't need one for each setup.

As far as cleaning up the shell plates and carriers a little canned air does just fine. When I change shell plates I will wipe down the carrier, these do not require and oil or grease and it is recommended to keep them dry anyways. It has been a year since I've had a carrier taken apart and that was only because it needed a ratchet change.

It only takes a lot of money to go with a auto indexing press IF you are insisting on only either a Dillon, Hornady or RCBS press. Sorry but both of these Lee Presses have not been expensive and have been very reliable and accurate. The ABLP is less than a year old, the Pro1000 I've have for over 3 years and it was purchased used for less than $100.00 complete with dies, case feeder and powder measure.

[tomme boy]

I have had 2 Pro1000's. I never could get either primer feed to work. I tried all the videos on youtube and elsewhere. Could never get more than 5 loads with them before locking the press up. I had one pop trying to seat it. After that the primer system got taken off completely.

Now I use it to decap the brass with one tool head. Then hand prime. Then run them through to add powder and seat the bullets.

I just got a Lee ABLP on Monday. It was missing the brass ejector and it is WAY out of alignment. I was crushing brass every pull of the lever. I tried to loosen the tool head with the ram raised and cases in the dies. That still was not enough. I had to loosen the carrier and adjust it that way. Then I had to bend the guide rod on the base so the carrier would now go down.

I feel it was messed up from the people at LEE tightening the carrier. I think they twisted the guide rod when they tightened it up. I actually bent the allen wrench trying to loosen the bolt(plug) that tightens the carrier to the ram. I had to get out my allen socket set for a 3/8 drive ratchet with a 12" handle to break it loose. It was over 80lbs. Way too tight.

[kmw1954]

tome boy that should have warranted a call to Lee looking for an exchange. If you had to bend the rod I can't see how it is ever going to align correctly. I have a video saved on the ABLP and they found the same thing with the carrier. I'm wondering if they but some Loc-tite on it.

[tomme boy]

No, there was no lock tite. That seems to be what tighten them to. Also the misalignment seems to be a common occurrence with this press.

Here is the thing with returning stuff to lee to get fixed. They will not pay to have it shipped to them. They will also not reimburse you for the shipping even if the problem was their fault. I am not going to send it back if I can fix it myself. This issue seems to be from using the guide rod as a stop to tightening the ram.

Before I did the fix the carrier was dragging on the rod real bad and you would feel a scraping as the carrier was lowered. After it now feels perfect. It is just a hair off right now, but it is not jamming up anymore.

[onelight]

Wow tomme boy your luck with Lee sounds like mine with Ruger.
My ABLP set up really easy just following the instructions for setup and alignment that came with it I was very impressed for the $109. investment. My pro 1000 had a larger learning curve and took some trial and error to learn setup and get priming well it was one of the first models. My loadmaster I had to relearn every time I changed calibers and for me was time consuming to get setup and running smooth.
sometimes they need a bit of brake in time , and if not cycled the full stroke you need to manually turn the shell plate to index both up and down , if it feels like something is wrong don’t force it stop and see what is going on. Slow and easy for a while to learn the press set up and get a feel for it.
You probably know all this sorry to be so wordy :p
Also I have found that some of my older dies do not work as smoothly on progressives they seem to be chamfering the mouth of the dies more now.

[Boolseye]

I’m very happy with the LCT so far, does just what I wanted it to.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[tazman]

I love it when a plan comes together.

[JeepHammer]

I got two Lee load Masters in trade, neither one worked worth ****, one getting beat off the bench with a hammer when I got a Dillon XL650.
Keep in mind I can build/rebuild and/or tune about anything, but the cheap/cheesy way Lee's are put together just doesn't lend itself well to any real upgrades or tuning.
Cheap/shoddy is cheap & shoddy, it is what it is...

A friend of mine pulled the handle on my SBD and always commented on how smooth it operated, but bought a L-N-L so he could do rifle,
When he tried my 650 he kicked himself, and eventually got a 650 actually throwing the L-N-L out in the yard.
Not sure I would have done that, it most certainly would have been trading material.
But like he said, the Dillon ran as well out of the box before tuning than the L-N-L did after tuning.

When you get into something with proprietary die sets (Dillon) you cost goes up again for caliber changes.
Besides the dies, there are caliber change kits that aren't cheap, the more automatic (case feeders, bullet feeders, etc.) The more stuff you need to change.

If your fingers are the case feeder, and your other hand feeds bullets, then the cost does come down.

There will be some folks that run their presses dry...
There will be some that don't check/adjust powder throws between loading sessions.
There will be people that crank rounds from the start, that don't do QC on cases/rounds each time the sit down to load.
That's their choice.

My press gets lubed, powder throws get scaled, case process functions get checked rounds get gauged.
The press gets torn down & cleaned, dies get cleaned & protected after I'm done.
The more complicated the press, the longer this takes.

Some people won't clean/lubricate/rust protect no matter what they pay for a press,
I'm not one of them. Buy good tools, take care of them and they will last MUCH longer.
The longer it lasts, the more you amortize the initial cost, the cost goes down the longer it works.
Just common sense...

The guy saying he doesn't lubricate and just 'Blows Out' the press afterwards would be an example.
You can't 'Blow Out' sharp, embedded crud that is eating your press...

[Dieselhorses]

It's amazing, at the end of the day, I still have my Lee progressive and LCT sitting side by side on bench and I guess there was an "unseen" reason I did this. Oh, and the ole SS "Spartan", wouldn't wanna leave him out! Anyway, in respect to the LALB, I can see this one handling an array of pistol rounds efficiently. One thing I did just realize is that Lee sells and adjustable charge bar for the auto-disk powder measure that will take the guess work out of changing discs. They even have a double-disk kit where you can slice the charge increments even smaller. Given this will speed things up a bit on my LM as far as setting up for new caliber, I'm still perfecting that very feat. After tweaking, I hate to mess with the way it's set up, say-for instance .45 acp. A lot of moving parts going on and they all have to work just so.

[onelight]

I got two Lee load Masters in trade, neither one worked worth ****, one getting beat off the bench with a hammer when I got a Dillon XL650.
Keep in mind I can build/rebuild and/or tune about anything, but the cheap/cheesy way Lee's are put together just doesn't lend itself well to any real upgrades or tuning.
Cheap/shoddy is cheap & shoddy, it is what it is...

A friend of mine pulled the handle on my SBD and always commented on how smooth it operated, but bought a L-N-L so he could do rifle,
When he tried my 650 he kicked himself, and eventually got a 650 actually throwing the L-N-L out in the yard.
Not sure I would have done that, it most certainly would have been trading material.
But like he said, the Dillon ran as well out of the box before tuning than the L-N-L did after tuning.

When you get into something with proprietary die sets (Dillon) you cost goes up again for caliber changes.
Besides the dies, there are caliber change kits that aren't cheap, the more automatic (case feeders, bullet feeders, etc.) The more stuff you need to change.

If your fingers are the case feeder, and your other hand feeds bullets, then the cost does come down.

There will be some folks that run their presses dry...
There will be some that don't check/adjust powder throws between loading sessions.
There will be people that crank rounds from the start, that don't do QC on cases/rounds each time the sit down to load.
That's their choice.

My press gets lubed, powder throws get scaled, case process functions get checked rounds get gauged.
The press gets torn down & cleaned, dies get cleaned & protected after I'm done.
The more complicated the press, the longer this takes.

Some people won't clean/lubricate/rust protect no matter what they pay for a press,
I'm not one of them. Buy good tools, take care of them and they will last MUCH longer.
The longer it lasts, the more you amortize the initial cost, the cost goes down the longer it works.
Just common sense...

The guy saying he doesn't lubricate and just 'Blows Out' the press afterwards would be an example.
You can't 'Blow Out' sharp, embedded crud that is eating your press...

Cast boolits has lots of members that have great success with the Lee and Hornady products maybe some one is close and can come help you guys get your presses set up and running .

[Boolseye]

Lee stuff has always done OK by me.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the reloader.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dieselhorses]

Lee stuff has always done OK by me.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the reloader.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That’s a good catch phrase


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1bluehorse]

If I may ask, what model progressives do you use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dillon 550b, RCBS Pro 2000, and a Lee Load Master I use for 9mm. The RCBS is the best of those. I will add I've owned several LM's over the years and know how to make them work very well. I have very few "issues" with the one I have. I don't "tinker" with it but do make "adjustments" when necessary, but that's rare. The Dillon is a good press and I use it for loading 223. It only has 4 stations but that's all I need for the 223/556. I'm not real enthused with the ergonomics of the 550, left hand, right hand thing. The Pro 2000 (no longer in production) is a brute, and I'm thinking of just getting rid of the Dillon and using the RCBS for all calibers that I load progressively (except the 9mm). All rifle (except 223/556) I load on a single stage press. And if you're wondering which one of those, Co-AX. I have a Lee Classic SS that I use for odds and ends and any "heavy lifting". There really is no "best" just what works "best" for you.

[Boolseye]

Thanks, I appreciate the details. I haven’t yet used a Dillon or Hornady press- the fact is, I hadn’t given serious thought to a new press til recently Now they’re kind of on the front burner. The LCT should hold me for a bit. I often have a NOE expander involved in the process, or some other factor that throws a hiccup in the progressive assembly line, one of the reasons the manual works better for me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk