Turkish/German 98 Mauser

[SierraHunter]

I picked up this rifle the other day, and I would like to learn more about it.

The reciever seems to have Turkish markings on it marked K.Kale and dated 1944, although the barrel is clearly marked " 1938 German 8mm"

I'm not sure if it is small or large ring threads, and honesty don't know how to tell with out taking the barrel off.

Anyone here knowledgable about these rifles?

[SierraHunter]

Apparently I can not attach files from my phone. Let me see of I can get something figured out here.

[SierraHunter]

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210327_zpslvbdbfq1.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210327_zpslvbdbfq1.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210331_zpsearuovso.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210331_zpsearuovso.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210334_zpscbykwrup.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210334_zpscbykwrup.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210338_zpsgfvnqouj.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210338_zpsgfvnqouj.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210349_zpsexiylv3y.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210349_zpsexiylv3y.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210404_zpsrvuxqzvi.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210404_zpsrvuxqzvi.jpg.html)

[SierraHunter]

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210418_zpsn5k32kwp.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210418_zpsn5k32kwp.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210420_zps2ubcoatd.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210420_zps2ubcoatd.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210423_zps7imji385.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210423_zps7imji385.jpg.html)

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj527/congiolosi/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210428_zpsjfdtotim.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/congiolosi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20190512_210428_zpsjfdtotim.jpg.html)

[tomme boy]

that is a Turk mauser. Not a German. CAI marked lots of rifles wrong. That marking on the barrel by the muzzle was put there by CAI marking it as an import.

You have a true 100% Turk mauser. It is a large ring small shank gun. Make at the K. Kale factory.

[SierraHunter]

that is a Turk mauser. Not a German. CAI marked lots of rifles wrong. That marking on the barrel by the muzzle was put there by CAI marking it as an import.

You have a true 100% Turk mauser. It is a large ring small shank gun. Make at the K. Kale factory.

From my understanding, the Turks are not worth that much. I bought two rifles from the guy, this one, and a 1948 M44 Mosin-Nagant that is in mint shape. I gave 200 for the pair.

[Petrol & Powder]

You did fine

[Texas by God]

That was a great deal. You could double your investment easily if you sold them today.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Yeah...no kidding! Great deal! They're currently going for about $150 each on most internet auctions, and like all ex-military rifles in original condition the value continues to rise. For awhile they were being sold for $39.95 each by the importers, and some of us old timers bought a dozen two. And...each came with a bayonet!

The Turk Mausers are just about the last really good surplus bargain that was imported. Like tomme boy mentioned, they are a large ring, small shank rifle, which means that externally they appear the same as a standard large ring Mauser, but the barrel shank is the smaller size of the models that preceded the 1898 version. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this idea that I was ever able to discern, and in theory the rifle should be stronger than the large shank version. Some don't like it because pre-cut/threaded barrels are a little more difficult to come by. If one owns a lathe there's no problem at all. After having handled a whole bunch of them I concluded that perhaps except for final finishing they're as good as any military Mauser ever made, and better than some.

Turkey was a member of the Central Powers in WW I, but stayed neutral in WW II. Between the wars they began a program to standardize their several models of Mauser rifles as much as possible to use as many parts in common as possible, so their "furniture" such as barrel bands, butt plates, etc. look much the same regardless of whether they are an earlier or later model. I do believe that M-38 (1938) is the correct model designation, but have seen them described as M-37 also.

Many have really nice bores and make great cast boolit shooters. I want to complement you on your photography-- much better than mine.

241631241632

[LAGS]

I had two of that model, one with a bad barrel and the other only the last 4" of the barrel was bad.
So I cut down the one with the bad barrel end and made it into a Military style Carbine and made a new metal nose cap for the stock.
The other I rebarreled by taking a Large Ring 25-06 pre threaded barrel and turned the shank down to the proper size and threaded it for the smaller diameter thread.
Built a stock for it and installed a scope.
Makes a nice hunting rifle

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Nice work, LAGS, as usual!

[TNsailorman]

I agree, that is a Turkish mauser 98 and they were well built rifles. I bought one several year ago, (1994) for $59.00 and the stock and metal was in excellent condition except for the bore which had pitting in it. It would shoot jacketed just fine and lead was accurate but it would lead a bit. I had a yen for a 6.5x55 on a mauser action. I bought a brand new Swedish model 96 barrel from Samco. I did some action work (trued the receiver, lapped the bolt in, etc.) and then installed the barrel, cutting it to 25" and putting a nice recessed crown on it. Installed a Boyd's classic stock on it and glass bedded the action and 1 inch of the barrel. Then sent it off to be re-blued. It turned into a very accurate shooter. My grandson has it now. I have a very high regard for Turk rifles. They don't have the fit and finish of the German rifle but are just as stout and rugged as any of the 98's. My experience anyway, james

[SierraHunter]

I honestly didn't check the barrels out on either one of these rifles yet. The guys is trying to raise enough money to get out of state, so I bought these to help him out, as well as a Model 700 safari grade in 458 win mag.

[KenT7021]

Turkish Mausers are a mix of German and Turkish manufacture.Some are large ring,some small ring.The same applies to the thread size for the barrel/receiver.Typically a large ring receiver with a handguard flange machined as part of the receiver will have the smaller barrel shank.

[Texas by God]

I bought three KK Turkish Mausers for $45 each, cut and crowned the barrels to 22", d&t for Weaver bases, welded on Midway bolt handles and installed Numrich safeties, and trimmed the forends. I sold them for $200 each to cowboys in Colorado for elk rifles. Everybody was happy but of course I should have kept one original- oh well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Kraschenbirn]

I've got a mechanically solid '43 KK Mauser with a decent bore that shows a bit more external wear than yours. IIRC I paid something like $70-$80 for it on a consignment auction a few years back but it cleaned up nicely and, shooting cast, is every bit as accurate as my near-mint Yugo M48.

Bill

[SierraHunter]

Finally got a chance to take a peek down the bore on this rifle last night. It looks perfect looking down it with the naked eye, except for the last inch or so which appears to have all the rifling worn away.

I've actually had 2 Turkish mausers in the past, both sporterized with rethreaded Remington take off barrels, and cheap plastic stocks.

The first one was a 308, and I liked it pretty well, minus the fact that the chamber was so tight that it closed tight on factory ammo.

The second was a 22/250, and it was not very accurate. Also, when they drilled and tapped it they must have been off center, because that rifle would run out of scope adjustment and still not be on paper. It didn't stay around very long

[LAGS]

I too had a Turkish KK Mauser that someone had D&T'ed the scope off center, and had the same issue as yours did with the scope adjustment.
It had Weaver two piece bases, .
So I shimmed the rear scope base with a .005 brass shim under the left side of the rear base, and a .005 strip of shim under the right side of the front base causing the scope to Cant Over to one side just a tick.
The rifle ended up on target with the scope set to center of adjustment.
Then I pulled the bases off, and with the shim still in the same spots under the bases, I put paste wax on the receiver then Bedded the scope base with the shims to the receiver with JB Weld for a more permanent and solid attachment.
It must be the shape of the Turk KK receivers when you are D&T'ing them, because I have seen more than one at the range that had similar issues.

[Texas by God]

Early on in the Turk import Mausers, you could get 1893 contract rifles that originally were 7.65x53 but had been rebored to 8x57. They also had the mag cutoff slot but the cutoffs were removed. They are true Orbendorf Mausers.

[skeettx]

Nicely done
and if you happen to sporterize them, you can use a Remington 700 take off barrel in any of the '06 base cases
BUT so many have been messed with that the prices may go up in the next decade or so.
Mike

[tomme boy]

The rail on the left side of the receiver with the cutout is thicker than all other actions. It sits into the receiver farther to the center of the bore. You have to use a spacer on the jig that is relieved to let the jig center better on the action. You grind out the spacer till the jig is square to the raceway.

[LAGS]

Thanks for the info Tommy Boy.
That explains why my Turks that I Drilled and Tapped were centered and so many others that I have seen were not aligned properly.
The reason being, I don't use a Jig to align and drill my receivers , even though I have one somewhere made by Wheeler that someone gave me in a Horse trading deal.

[Texas by God]

Lags, I use the Wheeler jig but I had to modify it to work with some barreled actions. It works very well. I have used it on small and large ring Mausers and a Jap 38.

[swheeler]

I've still got my KKale Turk 98 bought years ago and never shot much until adding a BAD ACE scout mount and a 2x7 scope. It was a re- arsenal I bought and took several days of sunshine to sweat the cosmoline out of the wood, mineral spirits on the metal. To this very day if it sets in the sun at the range the stock will still get the smell and greasy feel of cosmoline sweating out, they must hot soak it in the wood!241934

edit; my wife thinks it's her rifle!!!!!!!!

[gerrycan]

Hi,not to hijack the OP.
I have two Turks stamped Ankara 1937 ,1938.I wonder what their story is ?Cheers ,Gerry.

[northmn]

I got a Turk at a gun show for $60. Guy had a table of them and I picked out one that I felt was the most mechanically sound and had the best bore. Black bore as one sees from some milsurps but it shoots well. Stock was unsalvageable. I did sporterized it later using a large ring Mauser stock that it pretty much fit right into. Can't think of the name now but bought one of those screw on bolts to replace the straight bolt. It is D&T for a scope and has taken deer. I did shorten the barrel also. Its been a good rifle.

DEP

[Crash_Corrigan]

I bought a Mauser 98/22 made by BRNO during the 20's in 7.92x57. I had a thousand 30-06 cases in a 5 gallon bucket that I had bought for my Garand and I took out 250 and cut them down to 57 MM length and reformed them with 8x57 dies.

Loaded with Unique at 10 gr and with a 311284 boolit I got velocity at about 1350 and decent accuracy. However that stock had to go and the darned thing was just to long to lug around. I had a local gunny replace the barrel with a Douglas Match grade barrel in 6.5x55MM. He also trued up the bolt, changed it out to a turn down, added a Timney trigger, reblued it beautifully and put it into a laminated thumb hole stock. It turned out to be a great shooter of cast as well as a one MOA accuracy rifle with 140 gr condom boolits. The cast accuracy is what I am still working on.

The dog is an attack trained Chihuahua who thinks he is a Rotweiller. It is all about attitude. Sgt. Rambo is his name and he thinks I am here to serve him.

[Elkins45]

During the mid-90s you could pick them up a gunshows for around $60. That was in the post-AWB but pre-NICS days of the handgun waiting period where the only thing you could buy from an FFL at a show and take it home that day was a long gun. I ended up with a couple. One is an ASFA Ankara that I mounted a Williams receiver sight on. It shoots cast well enough to keep them all in the black at 100 yards even with my poor shooting and wearing glasses. It has one of the better military triggers I have handled.

I picked up a bargain bin laminated stock (LH shooter, RH action) from Richards for it. It’s a little nicer than the big ol’ club of a military stock. I would gladly have paid $100 for one, even if only as a donor action for a project gun.

[waksupi]

I bought several on my 03 C&R license, $39 each. All had good bores. When the Turks contracted with the Germans to make the Mausers, they stipulated that any improvements developed for Mausers should be used on any rifles delivered. So, although outer finish may leave something to be desired, you kind of get the cream of the crop of Mausers. I still prefer the Czech VZ24, but they cost quite a bit more.

[nekshot]

bought a dozen vz24's many years ago and wish I had bought the whole pile!